@jim I have been thinking a lot about low res programs (esp if I don't get in anywhere during this cycle, and I can work out the tuition assistance w/ my current employer).
Philosophically, I think low-res is a more logical path for writing than full-res. While it is nice to have 2/3 years to really focus on academics and writing, I'm not sure if it properly prepares most people to go into the real world and hold a job and write in your spare time. That's what a low-res is.
I personally really like the workshop environment, and I do want to teach, but I also like my job. My guess is that (assuming I don't get into any thing this year, which is what seems most likely) next year I will apply to a few of the top programs again (Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, Austin) and fill the rest out with some good low res programs.
Patrick, Thanks for the link to the song. I'm enjoying it! ALso sorry for accusing you of being a troll back in the day. There was just so much chaos at that time and I was going crazy with MFA fever. Sorry, man, you're clearly a sincere contributer to this blog. Good luck!
I don't know about that. I don't think that's really true. The Graduate Assistantships, Graduate Teaching Assistantships and 1 and 2 year fellowships, plus the competitively distributed funding the second year, with university wide as well as program specific grants all seem to have different monetary values.
In an effort to balance out my anxieties I printed Dickinson's "Hope is the thing with feathers" and taped it on my office wall so I can glance at it as needed (ie: every 30-40 seconds).
Here it is if anyone else could use a little solace in another's words.
"Hope is the thing with feathers"
Hope is the thing with feathers That perches in the soul, And sings the tune without the words, And never stops at all,
And sweetest in the gale is heard; And sore must be the storm That could abash the little bird That kept so many warm
I've heard in the chillest, And on the strangest sea; Yet, never, in extremity, It asked a crumb of me.
I definitely agree with you that for writers who plan to hold down full-time jobs while maintaining a disciplined writing life, the low-res format makes a lot more sense. I think the issue for most people is not merely funding, but also that they want to be immersed in a community of writers. I keep vascillating between these pros and cons myself, but I think even if I get into a decently-ranked traditional program I might find myself choosing the low-res pedagogy. It also just seems like the safer route, given the recession. If I quit my job to do an MFA, can I honestly expect to be hired again immediately after finishing my MFA? And since ultimately I plan to be a writer while holding down a full time corporate job, wouldn't it be better to start developing the discipline for this sooner rather than later?
(Of course, I change my mind about all this on almost a daily basis, so who knows what will actually happen with me?)
I have actually found that trying to maintain friendships on a physical level (i.e. going out for drinks, going to people's birthday celebrations) actually seriously takes away from my personal writing time. All the low-res alumni I've talked to have mentioned that there is definitely a camaraderie that forms during the residencies which is then enthusiastically maintained throughout the year via channels like email, phone, facebook, even snail mail. I think this would be community enough for me -- and easier to keep up with while sticking to a diligent writing schedule.
I also think in general that immersion in the writing experience needs to come from my own independent drive. If I spend my MFA degree depending the community around me to inspire me to write, then after graduating and leaving the MFA environment I might easily revert back to my old habits. Ultimately, I need to be able to depend on myself alone to support my writing and churn up inspiration.
Just got an e-mail rejection from Hunter (Memoir). Initial e-mail directed me to my online application where rejection notice was available. Can't complain. Due to a long list of personal reasons, I only applied there and Stony Brook Southampton and I got in to SBSH. I'm very excited and looking forward to starting the program. Good luck all.
I'm interested in this conversation about low-res programs because they weren't on my radar at all, but my interest has been piqued for sure.
Is there any difference in the actual degree you graduate with? Someone said there were two cycles of admissions.... thats appealing as well, anyone have more specifics on that? Aside from funding and community, are there other drawbacks?
Really feels like something I should have researched, but I'm really interested to hear about it now that the rejections have been coming in.... sounds like an interesting option.
Well, given that a lot of MFAers are already in their late 20s or older, they supposedly already know the drill when it comes to writing AND working (and given that funding at MFAs often comes in the form of teaching, I don't see how one can escape keeping a balance). Low-res programs have an even higher average age, so it's not like more students are learning new skills here (real world wise). That's my take.
I posted yesterday, but in my disapointment forgot to offer congrats to everyone. All of you guys are amazing and I am so happy for all of you that received an acceptance. CONGRATS! CONGRATS! CONGRATS!
Oh, if anyone is willing I would love to read anyones fiction work who received an acceptance so I have a better idea for next year. If anyone is willing my e-mail is: kell.vo@gmail.com.
I'm interested in this conversation about low-res programs because they weren't on my radar at all, but my interest has been piqued for sure.
Is there any difference in the actual degree you graduate with? Someone said there were two cycles of admissions.... thats appealing as well, anyone have more specifics on that? Aside from funding and community, are there other drawbacks?
Really feels like something I should have researched, but I'm really interested to hear about it now that the rejections have been coming in.... sounds like an interesting option.
Coreyann,
There isn't a difference in the degree you graduate with except that you might have more difficulty trying to use your MFA degree to land a teaching position. But since these days it's hard to land a teaching position regardless of where you got your MFA, I'd say this is pretty negligible. A few schools have some small opportunities to teach...I think the ones I read about are Goddard and maybe Bennington? But by "teaching" they mean that you do a lecture or seminar thing in your final residency.
The two application cycles exist because residencies typically happen twice a year: once in January, and then once around June/July. You can basically apply to start at whatever residency you want...I believe it's a little easier to get in when you apply to start your residency in January.
A huge plus: Some places allow you to spend a residency abroad somewhere. For example, Vermont lets you go to Slovenia and Stonecoast lets you go to Ireland. University of New Orleans seems to have a longer summer residency format that takes place in various locations in Europe.
Really I think that whether or not there are drawbacks depends on your personal needs and desires. Some people disagree with the low-res pedagogy, but for others it's perfect.
Oops, sorry guys, didn't mean to completely repost the original comment up there. I copied and pasted it into a notepad so I could type a response to it more discreetly while sitting here at work!
And before anyone bites my head off and misinterprets my last comment (we're all a bit testy right now), I wasn't disparaging low-res programs. Low-res programs often have AMAZING faculty (prob. it give writers that want to teach more freedom/flexibility) and it gives students who can't move/want to keep their jobs/lifestyles a chance to practice their craft they wouldn't have otherwise.
Waiting to hear from schools is like the youtube video below: endless, horrific, mysterious, and then the replay button pops up at the end (apply again).
another question... I never hear talk on here about Bread Loaf's (Middlebury) MA with writing focus... I got in there a few years ago (they do summer sessions so in that sense its a lot like a low-residency program) but couldn't go because of family stuff...
is this not considered enough of a "writing" program for most of you? I never see it mentioned here, and sometimes other MA programs are talked about... anyone know much about the program/its reputation among writers?
I got an email from Purdue this morning. My heart dropped--I clicked without reading the subject. It was a generic letter from the grad school saying "we have a well funded university." ::sigh:: I'm choosing not to read into it one way or the other. It got my blood pumping this morning though, that's for sure.
SamStod, happy birthday! Hopefully it will bring you good news.
Rising Yellow Rose, I agree, but there are a lot of programs relatively low on the rankings that people at least talk about, especially if they have decent funding. I actually have not been in contact with anyone at the school as I normally try not to "bother" schools unless I really need to know something. I'm glad to hear that they're friendly, though! Here's crossing my fingers for us at FAU!
many people tell me that when receiving an MA compared to an MFA, the opportunities for teaching jobs are more difficult to come by. also, people say that the Phd is starting to become more valuable than an MFA.
but again, in my opinion, just like undergraduate, it doesn't matter where you go to grad school. editors and publishers will look at your previously published work and current work over anything else.
ps - i don't know much about bread loaf's MA program, but the summer workshop at bread loaf is tops.
So, I am starting to get quite nervous because I got that online status acceptance to Rutgers-Newark on Friday, and still have not been contacted by the program. No phone call, no email, no letter. I keep checking the status online to make sure it still says accepted... I called the MFA office yesterday because I wanted it confirmed, and also wanted to ask if they've made funding decisions, but no one was there and I haven't gotten a call back yet. Is it really weird/unusual to not have any "official" notification yet??
What does the phrase "fully-funded" really mean? When I read a program described as such, it appears to mean that the program offers a full tuition waiver, plus some sort of stipend (either via fellowship, teaching, or some other work).
But unless the stipend is large and the cost-of-living for the area is low, I imagine a student will still have to take out loans just to pay for food, housing, etc. Maybe it's my skewed West coast sense of cost talking here, but I couldn't live on a stipend of less than $12,000 a year, and that's reeeeaaaallly stretching it.
Am I understanding this correctly?
Also, are there fully-funded programs that are NOT in the top 50 of Seth's rankings?
This is all assuming that the best way to know a school's real funding situation is just to give them a ring.
@Jim @SamStod RE: Low Res Programs. P&W has a low res page for communicating that might be easier than wading through all the blogs. If you decide to move over there for this discussion, I'll get an email notification. Anyway, Jim, to answer your question. I applied to seven low res programs and also Iowa, because that's where I live. I did not apply to Queens, but am considering doing that (due date March 15) I've been accepted to 2, rejected by one, and won't know the rest until the middle of March at the earliest. I would love to discuss more, and hear what you've gleaned about the various programs.
Recently I've been reading and speculating a lot about the romanticization, falsities, and dangers of pursuing a graduate degree in the humanities, especially for creative writing. The articles I've encountered echo my own thoughts of several years, thoughts I pushed aside and ignored for obvious reasons as a celebrated undergraduate writer yearning to go the distance in academe and as a student indoctrinated in the life of the mind.
I know many of you have read these or similar articles before; I don't see how all of you with such dogged internet reading habits could avoid it. However, if you haven't, these are certainly worth the read and your attention. I want to know--what do you all think of this? I only applied to a couple schools this year due to lack of money, and I'm assuming rejections from all so far, but I'm really starting to feel like these rejections may actually be blessings. The thought of going for an MFA frightens me on so many levels, and the following links will tell you why:
P.S. I sincerely congratulate all the accepted students for fall 2010! This post is by no means meant to troll or invalidate your success. I just want to know what everyone thinks, especially the numerous posters who seem horrified and dejected about not getting in and who must be mashing F5 and unnecessarily torturing themselves all day waiting for news.
Fully funded generally means full tuition waiver + some kind of stipend. For the most part, stipends are around or above 10k, though in some areas where cost of living is very low, that may be different.
Now, you're right that it is hard to live on that kind of money. Some places where you can get a decent single bedroom apt for around 300 are going to be much easier to make it by than a place where the stipend barely covers rent (I'm looking at you CA and NY).
For the most part, the stipends seem designed to meet a baseline poor college student standard of living. A house, utilities, food, internet, and maybe enough for your car insurance if you are lucky.
Most people I know in programs don't take out student loans, but they do end up either working a part time job here or there (saving up money during the summer), or doing some freelance work on the internet.Or they have SOs who are happy/willing to support them.
There are fully funded programs not in the top 50 (Bowling Green comes to mind). Usually these are either newer programs, or programs that very recently became fully funded. Though, I think we will see a jump in most fully funded programs in the next year as people begin to look at these schools as good solutions to un-/underemployment.
I'm from San Francisco and can tell you that it's definitely possible to live on less than 12K a year in a low-cost environment (and still save and live comfortably) IF you budget wisely. Also, the stipend figure is usually only for the academic year, so if you can land a teaching gig over the summer or get another job, you would likely bump up your annual earnings to at least 15-16k but probably more. If you really don't want to take out loans, I'd say plan on housemates, plan on searching for housing really early to get the best deals (sometimes you can get utilities included), understand that there is such a thing as rent below 1k or 6-800 for a room in a house (Yeah, I know it's difficult to believe outside of a city), plan not to go out very often, and learn how to cook. 12k is doable, even 10k for 9 months is doable. Below that? Yeah, now that's stretching it.
I agree that I have no fantasies of becoming a professor. You seem to be of my mind--the best reason for me to attend an MFA program would be to have two solid years set aside for me to study intensively without external worries such as work. But the "real world" would still haunt me, as the question, "So what do I do now?" would simply be deferred, not defeated.
Laura T: Keep calling. I think your situation is special. Maybe they sent you an email but it didn't go through? Maybe your letter was lost in the mail? But I'd be panicking if I were you! You have the right to celebrate with certainty! Demand certainty. :)
But maybe don't leave multiple voice mails if they aren't answering. You don't want them to think you're crazy, just persistent. :-P Haha.
I doubt many MFA applicants are looking at the degree as a path to a tenure-track professorship (at least not any time soon). If PHDs in academic fields (forget about the arts) from prestigious institutions can't find full-time employment, the story is even bleaker for MFAers (and I can tell you that I do have friends with Ivy doctorates that are unemployed). The main thing that helps an MFAer secure one of the few (and prized) teaching positions at universities is publishing (and being BIG and PROLIFIC about it), securing post-grad fellowships (which often come with more teaching experience), and winning awards. As with anything, it's what you put into the degree, how hard you work. But then there's also the hard fact that everyone was not built equally. I don't think NOT being a writer/academic means failure. Everyone on this board will still be a writer regardless of where they end up.
I agree completely. Most of us will, and all of us should, continue to be writers regardless of acceptance. But I'm worried not only about finding a position as a professor. In fact, that's the least of my worries. Others are more pertinent to me, such as lagging behind my peers in real world experience, not building any savings, possibly harming my romantic relationship, being overqualified for most work after graduation, having a professionally irrelevant two years on my resume spent writing poetry, and so on. Not to say I wouldn't go if accepted to one of my top choices, but that's the scariest part.
Thanks a bunch for those articles. I think Benton makes some interesting points...I'm not 100% sold on all of them, but they're worth thinking about. Mostly I agree with Katie -- those articles have just given me further conviction that low-residency is the way for me to go.
I want to do an MFA for the discipline I'll develop and and the fun of the experience, and that's really it. I'm really interested in teaching later down the road, for the fun of it, not for survival, but it's very possible that that will never come to fruition. If that's the case, I think I'll be grateful that I stayed in the work force and did low-res rather than quit my job for a traditional program.
!!!!!!!!! just got a "Hey, give us a call, we may have good news for you" email from The New School !!!!!!!!
ok. breathing. breathing. breathing.
i'm gonna give this like, ten minutes before I call their office, you know, so I don't seem really pathetic and desperate...like I'm sitting at my computer refreshing my email inbox....which I am.
(I'm creative non-fiction, by the way)
Will report back with news later. If this is a fake-out I will collapse and die. gahhh.
Hope today brings wonderful news for all!!!
(sorry about the excessive exclamation marks. i just. can't. help myself at the moment)
Nadia's email from the New School got me thinking - do some schools notify accepted students in a variety of ways? Looking back through the mailbags of past years, it seems like there are several schools mentioned where one student hears via email, yet another hears via a phone call. Does this have anything to do with where you are ranked in their list (waitlist vs. regular?) Would you find it strange if you heard everyone else was getting acceptance phone calls from school XYZ, yet you received an acceptance email? (this hasn't happened to me, but I'm curious!)
Fingers crossed for everyone in the afternoon stretch!
I've got to be honest- some of you are scaring me re: the value of an MFA, and I want to make sure that another voice is represented in this discussion. I have been suffering through unemployment for the last 8 months and could not be more excited to start a program in the fall. I completely understand those of you who are currently employed in jobs that you actually like and are worried about leaving them. In all seriousness, congratulations on having a good job- that is a big deal! While I know that none of you are talking down to the MFA (quite the opposite- you are all expressing the need to be realistic in the value of it), I just wanted to speak up and say a strange "It's okay!" to those who are in a similar situation to mine. No, I don't think an MFA will guarantee me an amazing teaching job, nor will it solve my problem of having a hard time writing just for myself rather than a deadline- however, I am hopeful that it will allow me to teach at a community college and open my eyes to opportunities that I'm not aware of yet. It's still okay to be excited!
I hope this was somewhat coherent, and not taken as a criticism of anyone here- not my intention! But as I was reading some of these comments I started to question my own excitement about the MFA and then realized that I shouldn't be doing that, and I wanted to speak up. Now to mosey on about my day...
I think that if I had an amazing job that I would have to throw away to enter an MFA, my answer might be different. However, I also think that if I had that amazing job doing something I'm super happy and fulfilled doing, I probably wouldn't have applied to a full-res MFA in the first place.
When it comes down to it, the economy right now is *terrible* and I've been trying to get a decent job for the last 9 months to no avail. I am currently working for $15 an hour and commuting about an hour and a half every day. And not even working full time. There are certainly more dire straits to be in, but I am making less now than I was making at my first job out of college 7 years ago, so comparatively, it ain't so great. The prospect of having a funded couple of years to meet other writers and get formal teaching experience holds great appeal for me.
The big argument seems to be that getting an MFA is no guarantee for anything. Well sure. In 2010, getting any kind of higher degree doesn't guarantee much. Doesn't guarantee jobs, doesn't guarantee tenure, doesn't guarantee success. Hell, it doesn't even guarantee 2-3 uninterrupted years of writing which we all cling to as this magical notion. It guarantees only that you'll be around other writers and that you'll likely be working your ass off.
What I know is that when I was trying to apply for teaching jobs last summer with my MA, I couldn't get them. Most of them wouldn't even accept my application without an MFA and/or at least two syllabi for classes I had developed and taught myself. Getting an MFA will not guarantee that I can get a job teaching, but it will at least allow me to apply for one, to have the credentials necessary.
I am personally not looking for tenure-track work. I would be happy teaching at a JC. I have several friends in the Bay area who teach lit and writing at 2-3 colleges at a time to make ends meet. And I would be fine with that. My ultimate goal is to work/run a nonprofit org teaching writing and photography in a disadvantaged community, and having these letters after my name and formal experience will make me more competitive when I apply for grants. I know that I want to teach, and I don't plan on stopping until I get some kind of job in that regard. Even the work I'm doing right now teaching elementary kids English at a tutoring center is an experience that I value and enjoy. If I end up doing this again in three years until I can find other work, so be it.
I think the only way to really gauge the value of getting an MFA is to consider the experience you will have while you're there. What comes after isn't relevant. Grad school strains relationships, makes huge demands on your time and sanity, and does set you back professionally in whatever track you were doing before if you don't continue it in some vein throughout the program. I worked as a wedding photographer and editor before I began an MA three years ago. I have not been able to get work in either field lately, despite having years of experience. However, neither of these are fields I want to get back into for any reason that isn't monetary; I have spent years trying to find the right kind of work for me and that isn't it.
Please take this with a grain of salt, but I say it with complete sincerity and good intentions: if you're not prepared to deal with losing the ground you'd gained in a different field, full-res is probably not the right answer for you.
I'm going into the MFA program with my eyes wide open. My only purpose of getting an MFA program is to learn as much about writing as quickly as possible. For the next 2-3 years, I want to eat, drink, and sleep literature. In my spare time, I want to think about the art and craft of writing. That's it. The full immersion.
When I tell my friends and relatives about my MFA plans, I always tell them it's a worthless degree; that is, it doesn't guarantee any kind of employment anywhere. That doesn't bother me. Upon graduation, I'm not planning on getting a job as a teacher, editor, tutor, etc.
I just want to work on my novels and short story collections.
Ughh... Hope the New School lets me in. If they don't, this will be the second time they've rejected me. Kind of feeling like that scene in the Royal Tenenbaums when Pagota sticks Royal with a shiv.
@Woon - How many novels are you working on? Ha. Also, you have the right attitude. Though I don't expect to learn very much about writing in my MFA. The only reason I'm doing it is for the time.
Sorry guys, I didn't mean to be a downer on the traditional MFA program! Those of you who are accepted should of course be absolutely thrilled...I know it's completely ridiculous, but I'm almost kind of envious of the people who are unemployed. For those who are unemployed/not satisfied with their jobs, the traditional MFA can be a welcomed escape into an amazing experience...but I because feel so obligated to keep working, especially under the weight of these hefty undergraduate loans, that even if I were somehow amazing enough to get into, say, Iowa, I'd have to turn it down.
I can only do a traditional program if it's where I live and if it will allow me to keep working. I live in New York City, and as Seth has said so many times (with so many fair points to prove it), New York City is perhaps the worst place to do an MFA. For me, the pursuit of the writing dream is incredibly difficult to balance with the necessities, and so to make myself feel better I have to do my best to cling to the pros of low-res programs and the cons of traditional programs.
Everyone applying to traditional programs, stay steady and strong! You know best about what you need and want, and what anyone else says or thinks should matter very little.
@ DigAPony: I agree. I'm excited about it! I think that if you know what your reasons are and you're going in with your eyes open, good on you. There are tons of people who think it's a pointless endeavor to be a writer anyway. I seriously doubt anyone on here is expecting to be lord of a castle once they have an MFA in hand.
@Andrew I emailed Michigan and Alabama today to see what was up with notificaition. I havent heard back from Bama, but I did from Michigan. They said "Letters went out Friday, you should have yours by early next week." That was all. So, it is all still up in the air.
I know a watched pot never boils, but I can't help myself. I'm about to drive myself crazy!
re: the MFA program
If I get in, I'm not going in with any expectations other than I will be able to focus on my work enough get a decent novel/book of short stories out of it. I'm just at this point in my life where it's time for me to do something different (well, either way I will: if I don't get in this year I'm seriously thinking of going abroad to teach).
@klairkwilty -- LOL! I meant novel singular. However, I have written two novels. They're unpublished and absolute crap, but I've got two under my belt. HA HA!
So I just got a call from a strange Virginia number. I pick up, and the person is like, "Hi, this is Linda-something-or-other, from the graduate department of... Shakespeare at Mary Baldwin College. Just wanted to know if you would like to apply this year."
So, I've been lurking for some time now, and I wanted to throw in my school list for the ranking gods:
2010 ---- WUSTL (Rejected) Syrcause (Rejected) Wisconsin (Rejected) Virginia Montana Iowa UNC-Greensboro Notre Dame Purdue University of Florida Arizona State University Vanderbilt Alaska-Fairbanks (Tentative Yes)
Also a note:
I have been applying to MFA programs for about three years now, and during this time, I have been working as a contract writer with a number of different companies. I was equally excited and disappointed when I received my first acceptance from a program (Columbia, NY). In fact, I was so ecstatic, I had thought it was the Art Institute of Chicago calling me, and I wound up asking the director why in the hell he would have an orientation in New York when then school was in Chicago. Ha. Yeah, egg on my face. Still, the funding gods were not on my side, and I made the--in my opinion--practical decision to decline rather than take on that debt.
The following year, I was accepted at Montana (no funding), Alaska-Fairbanks (some funding), and waitlisted at Notre Dame (pretty far down on the list). It was so difficult not to go to Montana and even more so to say no to Alaska, but I am a firm believer in the no-pay-MFA philosophy (no-pay as in free not as in no payoff, geez! :D). So, this year, I am waiting and hoping again, and maybe with some luck, the third time will be the charm. A dear friend of mind has already been accepted to Iowa, and for some reason that inspires me with more hope than I had before. I guess I'm pretty calm about the process, having gone through it twice now. What'll happen will happen, and I will always subscribe to idea that good writing outs itself. Whether you get an MFA to do that or work as a nurse while writing in your off hours, just keep writing, and eventually you will find an audience.
Hi all. I feel pretty silly now, but I've been doing the whole application process on my own, with some input from my advisor. I really wish I'd read the comments section on this site sooner (though I did read the posts); it would have been so helpful during those long nights in December and January! However, I can at least read now for support during these difficult few weeks.
Here's my list: Rejected: UC Boulder (snail mail. I got the letter yesterday, along with a bloody paper cut while trying to open it. Talk about insult to injury! Or injury to insult.) University of Missouri-Kansas City (snail mail early February, very disappointing) Washington University in St. Louis (email mid-February) Bard (email mid-February)
No word yet: Iowa (online profile says the decision is "In Progress" but it's been like that for weeks) Emerson UMass Boston School of the Art Institute of Chicago Stony Brook Southampton VCU Virginia Portland
Does anyone know when and how those schools respond? I know Virginia is usually pretty slow, but I don't know about the rest. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I think Joyce said it best when he said, "You have to be willing to make the biggest mistake of your life."
An MFA is a totally different animal than someone entering a PhD in the humanities, hoping to land a tenured position. While I can say I understand peoples fears, particularly given my own circumstances, I have to conclude that if one's harboring such fears, perhaps he or she would do well to think about other options.
@Woon: Just a stored up vent I had about denying applications based on administrative failures. Nothing against the actual instruction in the program. I just recalled seeing a few people who had been denied because they were missing one of two copies of a transcript. I also believe that's why I avoided applying to them this year. At least other schools make an effort to say they try to collect missing materials (even if they don't). :D
Word, y'all! I think we all have a good eyes-wide-open, realistic mentality about the MFA. Good juju.
@ smiling raindrops
Don't worry, you weren't being a downer at all! Low-res has a lot of great qualities, and if I had a good job that I enjoyed I would definitely go that route. I'll trade you my unemployment for your job. :) (Seriously. I've had jobs since I was 14, and yet I've been on unemployment for so long that my checks are about to run out. Come on, fall!)
I understand Joyce's quote as "Don't be afraid to be a fool," which can involve anything, not just joining an MFA program. And I think anyone would do well to consider all their options. Fear shouldn't be a red flag saying "You're not right for graduate studies."
Re. low-res. I applied to traditional full-res programs because I wanted the full immersion experience of walking around campus with my backpack, meeting with classmates face-to-face, workshopping in a real classroom, reading Dostoyevsky on the green lawn in the center of campus, eating crappy dorm food with my meal plan, taking the bus to random places while editing my short stories, sleeping in my -10 degree-rated sleeping bag in my crappy apartment, running laps in the university rec center, and checking out the university health center when I have the flu. Congregating with leftist protesters on campus and screaming "This shight is corrupt!" is an added bonus.
@Marivilloso - That is exactly why I didn't bother applying to Michigan this year. The disclaimer on their website frightened me off, and I've heard the same stories of rejections based on frivolous documents not arriving on time (the manuscript is the most important piece--who cares if the rest of the docs don't arrive by January 1st?). For that reason, I told Michigan to go to hell. (This involved my clicking away from the website. I didn't actually call them up and say, "Hey, Michigan, fuck you, man!" Though I should have.)
For anyone with no acceptances or otherwise down in the dumps about MFA/PhD programs:
"There was Ed Elbow, a fourty-four-year-old who just received his PhD in creative writing from one of the few schools to offer such a degree. He'd already earned MFAs in creative writing from not one but three different programs, and before that a BA in creative writing from his undergraduate school. Not that he'd been in school uninterruptedly since kindergarten: He'd taken a whole year off once to roll up his sleeves and work for a living, first as a bartender, then as a short-order cook, then in a homeless shelter, then on a fishing boat--and all strictly for the life experience so vital (hed been told in workshops) to a writer, since he was independently wealthy and didn't need to work at all, much less to sell a book. And he'd yet to write a book. By now he should have been the greatest writer of all time, since according to Dank, Continuing Ed (as they called him) had, in fact, had talent to begin with. That talent had disintegrated, though, as a result of decades of "constructive criticism," the way the facial bones and cartilage of a plastic surgery addict finally disintegrate from the strain of too many surgeries."
(From Christopher Miller's newest book, "The Cardboard Universe")
Well, if I don't get in anywhere, I'm moving to the island of Rand McNally, where people walk around with hats on their feet and shoes on their heads, and hamburgers eat people!
"I mean, seriously! Iowa City is only 4.5 hours from my front door. I'd much rather make that move than to the east coast, which is 452,000 hours from my front door. Nobody even lives in Virginia. I heard it looks like Tatooine except that there are some smart people. However, most of the smart people speak Mandarin, which means I'd have nobody to talk with. Lonely, if you ask me. Virginia is the land of despair.
"They don't even have drinking water there," my friend says, leaning over.
"I heard that too," I said. But I only said that so he wouldn't think he knew something I didn't.
Are you Irish, by the by? Love me some Irish whiskey. I've got more than a little Irish in me, though our friends on here from Ireland might likely slap me for saying such.
I agree, people do well to examine all their options--in writing, in everything. I suppose I just approach the whole situation with an attitude that best reflects what Klair and Woon have expressed: an MFA (optimally) provides time and full immersion in the same cage with the beast to which we're committed.
I should also rightly qualify what I said earlier. Due to deferred admission last year, I have the option to attend an MFA and stay in New York, whether I hear from anyone else or not. For me, though, this option would not provide the unmitigated time and immersion that I suppose many of us are talking about. I'd have to work probably 40 hours a week, and I'm not sure that's desirable, having already acquired an advanced degree while working quite a lot.
So I suppose I should say, in my particular circumstances, with my particular attitudes, I wouldn't hesitate to enter an MFA program that provided funding.
But I should also say I fear not doing something that would enrich me and my writing, funding or otherwise.
ALSO, I finally got to speak with the coordinator of the MFA program at Rutgers-Newark, who said that I am indeed accepted. Yay for this online status business being cleared up! She also said that they have not made any decisions about funding and TAships.
Re. Michigan. I didn't apply to Michigan because I'm an alum and I hated Angell Hall, where the MFA program is housed. I remember taking in the expressions of the students walking around Angell Hall and thinking they're the saddest looking bunch I had ever seen.
Hi! I've never posted on here before, but I just got accepted to the New School for Creative Non-Fiction.
My little sister pointed out that I will no longer have to live in "a stupid conservative state" (AZ), and that "there's gonna be Plan B everywhere! Like, an endless supply!"
I completely understand. If I've spent time around two or three different sets of MFA students, and I was really disappointed by some and really enthused by others. It's all about personalities, I suppose. That's partially why I like smaller programs. I weigh in with the Goldilocks factor here. I like programs that are big (but not too big) and small (but not too small). The just right people seem to be just right for my personality. :) That being said, I'm sure there are friendly and wonderful people in all programs, but I'm a firm believer in anecdotal evidence. :D
tho i am so happy for everyone hearing, today is a tough day for me with New School AND Sarah Lawrence notifying... my two top schools and an empty inbox/voicemail.
I just ate a LOT of guacamole. will be moving on to ice cream and wine later.
Cecil, I'm sorry to say this, but you're statement is redundant. The words "New York" already mean "greatest place on earth period." Anybody who doesn't know this is probably from . . . I dunno, Miami or some such rustic place.
Re. Michigan. Y'all can post all the hate you want re. Michigan even though I'm an alum. I love the school and the campus and have fond memories, but I myself make fun of it all the time. I think it's healthy to be open.
Congratulations to sooo many ppl I haven't been able to say congrats to. I have decided to give up on the hundred of comments I missed over the past few days. Special shout out to Laura T for: (1) The most hilariously inspirational way to find out an acceptance (re. Rutgers) (2) Having the most awesome March Radness day on record thus far.
Random thought, so please forgive: Restoration Hardware's homepage splash-screen is probably the most magical thing I've seen since Britney Spears's Fantasy perfume commercial.
@ klairkwilty - for the record, I did *not* take you seriously. Kinda weird that people did.
@ Lo Real Maravilloso - just out of curiosity, how do people know that their applications weren't considered at Michigan because documents didn't arrive on time? Did the school tell them? Is this conjecture or confirmed? I know about the disclaimer on the website, but lots of schools have similar disclaimers - Iowa, for one, who insists recommenders be forewarned about adhering to the deadline.
Was your birth early and unexpected, caused by excess amounts of cabbage consumption on St. Patrick's Day? If so, then yes, we were separated at birth.
So the online app requires a SOP, and it says the SOP must be ONE page.
I've called and emailed multiple times and can't get anyone to even respond to confirm this.
Does anyone know what they want at CCNY for the SOP? I'm getting reluctant to burn the $125 to apply there, but I also have three LORs burning a hole in my pocket.
Congrats on New School! But let's keep the AZ hateration (thank you, Mary J. Blige) to a minimum. Yes, there are many downsides, but I didn't really appreciate it there until I moved away.
I can say that I sent only *one* transcript to Michigan, that their online system said I was missing a transcript, that I called to clear it up, and they assured me (at the English office) that my application was complete and in committee.
Later, I was denied, and I remain skeptical of the conjecture about tossed-out apps.
While implicitly promulgating my NY elitism, I committed a most elementary error: confusing your and you're. Ah well, at least I have a knack for irony. That's another thing we have over Angelenos :P It's all in love, folks. It's all in love.
"TC3" at the Speakeasy was told by Nebraska that their PHD notifications will be out by the end of the week. Anyone else hear this? I wonder if this is for Rhetoric/Comp and Creative Writing? Or just one...
re: Woon and Michigan. I also went to U of M, majored in English. I liked the people, Angell Hall was indeed rather lame, and Ann Arbor is pretty nice, but sadly it's a place that is rapidly losing its small-town college charm. The best bookstore in town was recently converted into a CVS drugstore. So if you're in, please move there and make it cool again! And southeastern Michigan in general is about the worst place I can think of, in America.
re: UMSL. I am from Saint Louis. Saint Louis is fucking rad. Really. Tons of great places to go out and lots of local flavor. UMSL is in a pretty dumb area in a northern, suburban type of place, but UMSL does a really good job with its creative writing department, as far as I can tell. In all honesty, though, I didn't apply because I'm in Saint Louis and I didn't want to haul my ass up to UMSL every day, nor did I want to move into its environs. So, take that for what it's worth. Obviously I am now regretting this decision because I have SIX REJECTIONS and assumed rejections take up pretty much the rest of my list. Like the great David Spade said, just shoot me.
I mostly only applied to small city schools, with some moderate sized cities thrown in there:
Wyoming (rejected) Oregon Montana (assumed rejection) CSU (accepted) CU Boulder (accepted) Boise State (accepted) Brown Vanderbilt (assumed rejection) New Mexico State (accepted)
I have a low tolerance for cities and a high need for solitude. That said, I live in Boston/Cambridge and sort of love it.
I personally know individuals who were told this about their applications when they contacted the school. Again, I cite anecdotal evidence. It's just standoffish of a school to do that, just like Cornell or Brown or whoever it is who has the one-year MFA saying their program is not for the faint of heart. That just suggests they know you are publishable or have already been published and just want to put their stamp on you for future posterity. That I also find discouraging. Still, I bet the quality of the education is stellar. Some schools just feel more full of themselves than others. Iowa, oddly enough, does not strike me that way. But of course, what a school projects and what the reality is are often two different things.
Me! I'm neither a fan "metropoli" or "quaint towns". I don't know what the hell I like... something in between, I suppose. As long as it can support an orchestra, but not multiple national sporting teams, I'm cool.
@ Lo Real Maravilloso - I honestly have no idea if Michigan actually does this, but it would really surprise me. Not having the writing sample and SOP by the deadline I understand - other details get lost in the mail. However, they do have a disclaimer on their site for just this reason I suppose.
In all fairness, though, we have no idea what other schools might do this. Half the schools out there could throw out incomplete apps before they start reading. I doubt it, but if they don't publicize the fact, how are we to know?
@Woon and mj--'nother Mich alum here. Got my undergrad there, uh, ahem, thirty years ago. And started in the PHD program but took a "temporary leave" for personal reasons that has somehow stretched till, uh, now (and the personal reason is 27 years old...)
I adored Ann Arbor, and get back there now and then because of some particular connections, but it's definitely quite different from when I went to school there.
I didn't apply, can't really uproot, though since my husband is also an alum, and we have friends there, I might have been able to pull if off (then, I looked at the numbers....)
@Sarah T--Wow, wow, and wow!!!! Congrats all around! (and when you talk to R-N again, please tell them to let me know, one way or the other--dang!)
@Ya'll/Yinz This may be a "duh" question, but do you know if there is any way to check application status online for Brown, Columbia, NYU, or Indiana? That goes for FSU, too, because their online login system just appears to take me to their BlackBoard and I can't seem to find the decision button there. It's probably just a sit and wait situation, though.
Thanks for the camaraderie, Jojee and Gena! While I love visiting big cities, I don't do well living in them (as in, Tucson was too big for me). I also crave solitude and somewhere to get away. Thus why I am excited about U Idaho and Northern Michigan!
I've just been accepted to Brooklyn College! Joshua Heinkin called and talked to me for about a half hour about the program. He said they received over 500 applications this year. He was extremely informative, and generous with time. He invited me to sit in on a workshop and even offered to pick me up at the subway.
I'm coming from PA (I go to college in Philly). I'm glad New School accepted me, but I'm still holding out for Hunter and/or Brooklyn College (Hemlock, congrats).
My Fiction Writing teacher gives classes at the New School. I might have to contact her just to see what to expect.
Anyone heard anything from Columbia, SAIC, CCNY, or Queens College?
So...Brooklyn notified some fiction applicants on Friday that they were accepted. Given that they only accept like five new applicants per year should I start crying?
Accepted to Butler this afternoon, CNF, via e-mail!
Just like Pema D, I also just received one of those GNE's from UNCW, letting me know that I'm on their version of a waitlist I suppose, with their rolling admissions.
@Pema: Perhaps I'll see you at the beach? My best to you! Despite all of the recent controversy with UNCW, it is an excellent program I think. I graduated from their BFA program last year, and my writing certainly flourished there. I wouldn't mind going back to ole Carolina. Cool little city there, with much to do.
@All of you still waiting and waiting--I do feel you, I do. I know some, if not many, have said this sort of thing already, but it's true: I received one rejection in mid-February (out of 12 programs), and then just that awful silence until now. It can happen that fast; thought for sure I'd get flat-rejected by them all, as illogical as that may be. Just started to get that sinking feeling as each day passed. I know I don't need to explain what that feels like to anyone.
If I can get a little lucky; anyone can, believe me.
Yeah, SAIC is incredibly expensive. However, their loose curriculum is tempting, to say the least. Especially since I'm kind of experimental with my writing. I wouldn't mind having the freedom to compose loose, artsy fartsy experimental fiction that my friends and I would appreciate (but everyone else wouldn't get).
@everyone
Have any of you taken workshops before applying to an MFA? Did this in anyway influence your decision to apply (like it did to me)?
How are all the other fiction applicants to Ole Miss feeling (besides grieved for literature's loss) about Mr. Hannah's passing? Does it change your feelings about having applied to Ole Miss? I still haven't quite got it through my head that Mr. Hannah's actually gone, so I'm not sure how I feel about it.
BTW, does anyone know what the department will do, or can anyone hazard a guess? Will they attempt to hire someone short-term, or attempt to recruit a "name"? It's never a good time to lose one of our great writers, but what a strange time for his department, too, with the evaluation of fiction candidates on the table...
Just got my rejection from SIUC. I was hoping for a wait list, but when I saw the envelope -- address label askew, flap nearly left unsealed save for one inch of adhesion at the right corner -- I knew it was not assembled with the love behind any sort of good news.
Then the letter itself: terse and with a stamped signature faded in the middle.
Yeah, some of those classes they offer are just too interesting to want to pass up. The curriculum is the major thing that attracted me to SAIC.
And I have been taking workshops; actually I applied to and started the graduate certificate program at a nearby college last August; doing that solidified my decision to pursue an MFA.
Thank you so much. The New School was one of my top choices. So I may end up there, but I'd be coming from Honolulu, Hawaii — small fish in a big ass pond. I will definitely need to be in touch with some kind of support network!
Re. Amy Hempel. I only read her much-anthologized "In the Cemetary Where Al Jolson is Buried," and I didn't like it much. But I'm not very Hempel-read.
Yeah, the curriculum is what attracted me to the school; those classes were just too interesting to me. However, I might be a little too traditional for the program, and that's O.K.
I took my mom to the SAIC day here in Atlanta, and the first thing she said afterward was, "That school seems so...'boutique-y'." LOL
Her collection of short stories gives a broader and more insightful view into her as a writer. I personally found her most popular piece to seem somewhat mediocre in comparison to some of the others in the collection.
I think it would be absolutely amazing to be given the opportunity to soak some of her knowledge and critique up.
I got the UNCW GNE aka waitlist too! I wonder how many people are on the waitlist...
THIS IS MY FIRST PIECE OF GOOD NEWS, GUYS!!!! I'm so happy... well, you know, except basically I'm *still* waiting around with no real acceptance. But it's encouraging!!! and there's still hope for UNCW, and therefore, the other ten I'm waiting on!!!!!
Congrats to all the acceptances in the past, oh, 24 hours! I had a huge presentation/conference thing at work and was off email. I got back and woooO! so much happy news! hooray!
SAIC is the School of the Art Institute of Chicago.
One of the reasons why I applied there is because I tend to work better in artistic environments (dropped out of Rutgers and community college for art school. Best decision I ever made).
@Wells
I like boutique-y! But yeah, I do understand that art schools are usually divisive with people (and yes, many of intructors are pretentious douche-tards. But I'll take an arty douche-tard over an academic douche-tard any day).
2,502 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1201 – 1400 of 2502 Newer› Newest»@jim I have been thinking a lot about low res programs (esp if I don't get in anywhere during this cycle, and I can work out the tuition assistance w/ my current employer).
Philosophically, I think low-res is a more logical path for writing than full-res. While it is nice to have 2/3 years to really focus on academics and writing, I'm not sure if it properly prepares most people to go into the real world and hold a job and write in your spare time. That's what a low-res is.
I personally really like the workshop environment, and I do want to teach, but I also like my job. My guess is that (assuming I don't get into any thing this year, which is what seems most likely) next year I will apply to a few of the top programs again (Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, Austin) and fill the rest out with some good low res programs.
Patrick,
Thanks for the link to the song. I'm enjoying it!
ALso sorry for accusing you of being a troll back in the day. There was just so much chaos at that time and I was going crazy with MFA fever. Sorry, man, you're clearly a sincere contributer to this blog.
Good luck!
@Trilbe
Re: your notes about Iowa (IWW) funding.
I don't know about that. I don't think that's really true. The Graduate Assistantships, Graduate Teaching Assistantships and 1 and 2 year fellowships, plus the competitively distributed funding the second year, with university wide as well as program specific grants all seem to have different monetary values.
In an effort to balance out my anxieties I printed Dickinson's "Hope is the thing with feathers" and taped it on my office wall so I can glance at it as needed (ie: every 30-40 seconds).
Here it is if anyone else could use a little solace in another's words.
"Hope is the thing with feathers"
Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all,
And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm
I've heard in the chillest,
And on the strangest sea;
Yet, never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me.
Someone on Driftless posted a UC-Irvine acceptance by phone on 3/1.
Come on, Irvine. It's my birthday. Give me a little ring-a-ding-ding. You're my last non-assumed rejection!
@ honeybadger - I'm headed out to Michigan's student weekend. Drop me a line (the email in my profile is active) and we can chat.
Jim,
I definitely agree with you that for writers who plan to hold down full-time jobs while maintaining a disciplined writing life, the low-res format makes a lot more sense. I think the issue for most people is not merely funding, but also that they want to be immersed in a community of writers. I keep vascillating between these pros and cons myself, but I think even if I get into a decently-ranked traditional program I might find myself choosing the low-res pedagogy. It also just seems like the safer route, given the recession. If I quit my job to do an MFA, can I honestly expect to be hired again immediately after finishing my MFA? And since ultimately I plan to be a writer while holding down a full time corporate job, wouldn't it be better to start developing the discipline for this sooner rather than later?
(Of course, I change my mind about all this on almost a daily basis, so who knows what will actually happen with me?)
vacillating*
Who knows what my brain is doing today.
@smiling raindrops
I know what you mean about the importance of being completely immersed in a writing community . . . definitely one of the drawbacks of low-res.
Hunter just sent out an email saying that my application status had been finalized online, and it was a rejection for non-fiction.
I'm so behind on my congratulations, I can't possibly keep up. Congrats to everyone who's heard lately, you have my sincere best wishes.
@Jim
I have actually found that trying to maintain friendships on a physical level (i.e. going out for drinks, going to people's birthday celebrations) actually seriously takes away from my personal writing time. All the low-res alumni I've talked to have mentioned that there is definitely a camaraderie that forms during the residencies which is then enthusiastically maintained throughout the year via channels like email, phone, facebook, even snail mail. I think this would be community enough for me -- and easier to keep up with while sticking to a diligent writing schedule.
I also think in general that immersion in the writing experience needs to come from my own independent drive. If I spend my MFA degree depending the community around me to inspire me to write, then after graduating and leaving the MFA environment I might easily revert back to my old habits. Ultimately, I need to be able to depend on myself alone to support my writing and churn up inspiration.
Just got an e-mail rejection from Hunter (Memoir). Initial e-mail directed me to my online application where rejection notice was available. Can't complain. Due to a long list of personal reasons, I only applied there and Stony Brook Southampton and I got in to SBSH. I'm very excited and looking forward to starting the program. Good luck all.
I'm interested in this conversation about low-res programs because they weren't on my radar at all, but my interest has been piqued for sure.
Is there any difference in the actual degree you graduate with? Someone said there were two cycles of admissions.... thats appealing as well, anyone have more specifics on that? Aside from funding and community, are there other drawbacks?
Really feels like something I should have researched, but I'm really interested to hear about it now that the rejections have been coming in.... sounds like an interesting option.
@SamStod
Well, given that a lot of MFAers are already in their late 20s or older, they supposedly already know the drill when it comes to writing AND working (and given that funding at MFAs often comes in the form of teaching, I don't see how one can escape keeping a balance). Low-res programs have an even higher average age, so it's not like more students are learning new skills here (real world wise). That's my take.
I posted yesterday, but in my disapointment forgot to offer congrats to everyone. All of you guys are amazing and I am so happy for all of you that received an acceptance. CONGRATS! CONGRATS! CONGRATS!
Oh, if anyone is willing I would love to read anyones fiction work who received an acceptance so I have a better idea for next year. If anyone is willing my e-mail is: kell.vo@gmail.com.
Again, CONGRATULATIONS EVERYONE! :)
I'm interested in this conversation about low-res programs because they weren't on my radar at all, but my interest has been piqued for sure.
Is there any difference in the actual degree you graduate with? Someone said there were two cycles of admissions.... thats appealing as well, anyone have more specifics on that? Aside from funding and community, are there other drawbacks?
Really feels like something I should have researched, but I'm really interested to hear about it now that the rejections have been coming in.... sounds like an interesting option.
Coreyann,
There isn't a difference in the degree you graduate with except that you might have more difficulty trying to use your MFA degree to land a teaching position. But since these days it's hard to land a teaching position regardless of where you got your MFA, I'd say this is pretty negligible. A few schools have some small opportunities to teach...I think the ones I read about are Goddard and maybe Bennington? But by "teaching" they mean that you do a lecture or seminar thing in your final residency.
The two application cycles exist because residencies typically happen twice a year: once in January, and then once around June/July. You can basically apply to start at whatever residency you want...I believe it's a little easier to get in when you apply to start your residency in January.
A huge plus: Some places allow you to spend a residency abroad somewhere. For example, Vermont lets you go to Slovenia and Stonecoast lets you go to Ireland. University of New Orleans seems to have a longer summer residency format that takes place in various locations in Europe.
Really I think that whether or not there are drawbacks depends on your personal needs and desires. Some people disagree with the low-res pedagogy, but for others it's perfect.
Oops, sorry guys, didn't mean to completely repost the original comment up there. I copied and pasted it into a notepad so I could type a response to it more discreetly while sitting here at work!
Cont'd
And before anyone bites my head off and misinterprets my last comment (we're all a bit testy right now), I wasn't disparaging low-res programs. Low-res programs often have AMAZING faculty (prob. it give writers that want to teach more freedom/flexibility) and it gives students who can't move/want to keep their jobs/lifestyles a chance to practice their craft they wouldn't have otherwise.
@smilingraindrops:
thanks for that-- I'm definitely inspired to look into low-res if it doesn't work out for me this year, especially since re-locating is so hard.
really appreciate your prompt response! thanks!
Waiting to hear from schools is like the youtube video below: endless, horrific, mysterious, and then the replay button pops up at the end (apply again).
http://tinyurl.com/yhsyzoc
Good news to everyone this week!
another question... I never hear talk on here about Bread Loaf's (Middlebury) MA with writing focus... I got in there a few years ago (they do summer sessions so in that sense its a lot like a low-residency program) but couldn't go because of family stuff...
is this not considered enough of a "writing" program for most of you? I never see it mentioned here, and sometimes other MA programs are talked about... anyone know much about the program/its reputation among writers?
I got an email from Purdue this morning. My heart dropped--I clicked without reading the subject. It was a generic letter from the grad school saying "we have a well funded university." ::sigh:: I'm choosing not to read into it one way or the other. It got my blood pumping this morning though, that's for sure.
My phone has never been so silent as it is today.
SamStod,
happy birthday! Hopefully it will bring you good news.
Rising Yellow Rose,
I agree, but there are a lot of programs relatively low on the rankings that people at least talk about, especially if they have decent funding. I actually have not been in contact with anyone at the school as I normally try not to "bother" schools unless I really need to know something. I'm glad to hear that they're friendly, though! Here's crossing my fingers for us at FAU!
coreyann,
many people tell me that when receiving an MA compared to an MFA, the opportunities for teaching jobs are more difficult to come by. also, people say that the Phd is starting to become more valuable than an MFA.
but again, in my opinion, just like undergraduate, it doesn't matter where you go to grad school. editors and publishers will look at your previously published work and current work over anything else.
ps - i don't know much about bread loaf's MA program, but the summer workshop at bread loaf is tops.
So, I am starting to get quite nervous because I got that online status acceptance to Rutgers-Newark on Friday, and still have not been contacted by the program. No phone call, no email, no letter. I keep checking the status online to make sure it still says accepted... I called the MFA office yesterday because I wanted it confirmed, and also wanted to ask if they've made funding decisions, but no one was there and I haven't gotten a call back yet. Is it really weird/unusual to not have any "official" notification yet??
Just got an email from University of Idaho
Accepted for poetry!! I'm going to try and call them today about funding... i hope.... i hope... i hope...
Good luck to everybody for the ensuing chaos, I hope it brings good news and loud phones
@ mickey
congrats on idaho!
@samstod
cumpleanos feliz!
@coreyann and all other Low Res interested people-I think it would be easier to move the discussion over to P&W's low res discussion. Any takers?
Acceptance at Pittsburgh (CNF) via email announced on Driftless House.
A funding question:
What does the phrase "fully-funded" really mean? When I read a program described as such, it appears to mean that the program offers a full tuition waiver, plus some sort of stipend (either via fellowship, teaching, or some other work).
But unless the stipend is large and the cost-of-living for the area is low, I imagine a student will still have to take out loans just to pay for food, housing, etc. Maybe it's my skewed West coast sense of cost talking here, but I couldn't live on a stipend of less than $12,000 a year, and that's reeeeaaaallly stretching it.
Am I understanding this correctly?
Also, are there fully-funded programs that are NOT in the top 50 of Seth's rankings?
This is all assuming that the best way to know a school's real funding situation is just to give them a ring.
@Jim
@SamStod
RE: Low Res Programs. P&W has a low res page for communicating that might be easier than wading through all the blogs. If you decide to move over there for this discussion, I'll get an email notification.
Anyway, Jim, to answer your question. I applied to seven low res programs and also Iowa, because that's where I live. I did not apply to Queens, but am considering doing that (due date March 15) I've been accepted to 2, rejected by one, and won't know the rest until the middle of March at the earliest. I would love to discuss more, and hear what you've gleaned about the various programs.
Recently I've been reading and speculating a lot about the romanticization, falsities, and dangers of pursuing a graduate degree in the humanities, especially for creative writing. The articles I've encountered echo my own thoughts of several years, thoughts I pushed aside and ignored for obvious reasons as a celebrated undergraduate writer yearning to go the distance in academe and as a student indoctrinated in the life of the mind.
I know many of you have read these or similar articles before; I don't see how all of you with such dogged internet reading habits could avoid it. However, if you haven't, these are certainly worth the read and your attention. I want to know--what do you all think of this? I only applied to a couple schools this year due to lack of money, and I'm assuming rejections from all so far, but I'm really starting to feel like these rejections may actually be blessings. The thought of going for an MFA frightens me on so many levels, and the following links will tell you why:
By Thomas H. Benton:
"Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go"
http://is.gd/9xFSS
"Just Don't Go, Part 2"
http://is.gd/9xG1A
"The Big Lie About the 'Life of the Mind'"
http://is.gd/9xGcM
Short interview with Edward Hirsch:
"Do MFA Programs Hurt Poetry?"
http://bigthink.com/ideas/18770
P.S. I sincerely congratulate all the accepted students for fall 2010! This post is by no means meant to troll or invalidate your success. I just want to know what everyone thinks, especially the numerous posters who seem horrified and dejected about not getting in and who must be mashing F5 and unnecessarily torturing themselves all day waiting for news.
Accepted to University of Idaho for poetry. Emailed.
@anotherjenny
Fully funded generally means full tuition waiver + some kind of stipend. For the most part, stipends are around or above 10k, though in some areas where cost of living is very low, that may be different.
Now, you're right that it is hard to live on that kind of money. Some places where you can get a decent single bedroom apt for around 300 are going to be much easier to make it by than a place where the stipend barely covers rent (I'm looking at you CA and NY).
For the most part, the stipends seem designed to meet a baseline poor college student standard of living. A house, utilities, food, internet, and maybe enough for your car insurance if you are lucky.
Most people I know in programs don't take out student loans, but they do end up either working a part time job here or there (saving up money during the summer), or doing some freelance work on the internet.Or they have SOs who are happy/willing to support them.
There are fully funded programs not in the top 50 (Bowling Green comes to mind). Usually these are either newer programs, or programs that very recently became fully funded. Though, I think we will see a jump in most fully funded programs in the next year as people begin to look at these schools as good solutions to un-/underemployment.
Another Jenny,
I'm from San Francisco and can tell you that it's definitely possible to live on less than 12K a year in a low-cost environment (and still save and live comfortably) IF you budget wisely. Also, the stipend figure is usually only for the academic year, so if you can land a teaching gig over the summer or get another job, you would likely bump up your annual earnings to at least 15-16k but probably more. If you really don't want to take out loans, I'd say plan on housemates, plan on searching for housing really early to get the best deals (sometimes you can get utilities included), understand that there is such a thing as rent below 1k or 6-800 for a room in a house (Yeah, I know it's difficult to believe outside of a city), plan not to go out very often, and learn how to cook. 12k is doable, even 10k for 9 months is doable. Below that? Yeah, now that's stretching it.
@Katie
I agree that I have no fantasies of becoming a professor. You seem to be of my mind--the best reason for me to attend an MFA program would be to have two solid years set aside for me to study intensively without external worries such as work. But the "real world" would still haunt me, as the question, "So what do I do now?" would simply be deferred, not defeated.
Laura T: Keep calling. I think your situation is special. Maybe they sent you an email but it didn't go through? Maybe your letter was lost in the mail? But I'd be panicking if I were you! You have the right to celebrate with certainty! Demand certainty. :)
But maybe don't leave multiple voice mails if they aren't answering. You don't want them to think you're crazy, just persistent. :-P Haha.
Jameson,
I doubt many MFA applicants are looking at the degree as a path to a tenure-track professorship (at least not any time soon). If PHDs in academic fields (forget about the arts) from prestigious institutions can't find full-time employment, the story is even bleaker for MFAers (and I can tell you that I do have friends with Ivy doctorates that are unemployed). The main thing that helps an MFAer secure one of the few (and prized) teaching positions at universities is publishing (and being BIG and PROLIFIC about it), securing post-grad fellowships (which often come with more teaching experience), and winning awards. As with anything, it's what you put into the degree, how hard you work. But then there's also the hard fact that everyone was not built equally. I don't think NOT being a writer/academic means failure. Everyone on this board will still be a writer regardless of where they end up.
@ Dry Leaves,
I don't see that pitt notification.
@WanderingTree
I agree completely. Most of us will, and all of us should, continue to be writers regardless of acceptance. But I'm worried not only about finding a position as a professor. In fact, that's the least of my worries. Others are more pertinent to me, such as lagging behind my peers in real world experience, not building any savings, possibly harming my romantic relationship, being overqualified for most work after graduation, having a professionally irrelevant two years on my resume spent writing poetry, and so on. Not to say I wouldn't go if accepted to one of my top choices, but that's the scariest part.
Jameson,
Thanks a bunch for those articles. I think Benton makes some interesting points...I'm not 100% sold on all of them, but they're worth thinking about. Mostly I agree with Katie -- those articles have just given me further conviction that low-residency is the way for me to go.
I want to do an MFA for the discipline I'll develop and and the fun of the experience, and that's really it. I'm really interested in teaching later down the road, for the fun of it, not for survival, but it's very possible that that will never come to fruition. If that's the case, I think I'll be grateful that I stayed in the work force and did low-res rather than quit my job for a traditional program.
!!!!!!!!! just got a "Hey, give us a call, we may have good news for you" email from The New School !!!!!!!!
ok. breathing. breathing. breathing.
i'm gonna give this like, ten minutes before I call their office, you know, so I don't seem really pathetic and desperate...like I'm sitting at my computer refreshing my email inbox....which I am.
(I'm creative non-fiction, by the way)
Will report back with news later. If this is a fake-out I will collapse and die. gahhh.
Hope today brings wonderful news for all!!!
(sorry about the excessive exclamation marks. i just. can't. help myself at the moment)
Sounds awesome, Nadia!
@Nadia
Yay!!! Take a breath and get on that phone, lady [:
@Nadia
aghhhh. thats great!
please let us know what they say-- New School is right there at the top of my list so you have me freaking out now. =)
@nadia good luck!! I know I would be hyperventilating for sure!
Nadia's email from the New School got me thinking - do some schools notify accepted students in a variety of ways? Looking back through the mailbags of past years, it seems like there are several schools mentioned where one student hears via email, yet another hears via a phone call. Does this have anything to do with where you are ranked in their list (waitlist vs. regular?) Would you find it strange if you heard everyone else was getting acceptance phone calls from school XYZ, yet you received an acceptance email? (this hasn't happened to me, but I'm curious!)
Fingers crossed for everyone in the afternoon stretch!
@ ryan
The Pitt accept is in the comments (March 2), not the app response list.
I've got to be honest- some of you are scaring me re: the value of an MFA, and I want to make sure that another voice is represented in this discussion. I have been suffering through unemployment for the last 8 months and could not be more excited to start a program in the fall. I completely understand those of you who are currently employed in jobs that you actually like and are worried about leaving them. In all seriousness, congratulations on having a good job- that is a big deal! While I know that none of you are talking down to the MFA (quite the opposite- you are all expressing the need to be realistic in the value of it), I just wanted to speak up and say a strange "It's okay!" to those who are in a similar situation to mine. No, I don't think an MFA will guarantee me an amazing teaching job, nor will it solve my problem of having a hard time writing just for myself rather than a deadline- however, I am hopeful that it will allow me to teach at a community college and open my eyes to opportunities that I'm not aware of yet. It's still okay to be excited!
I hope this was somewhat coherent, and not taken as a criticism of anyone here- not my intention! But as I was reading some of these comments I started to question my own excitement about the MFA and then realized that I shouldn't be doing that, and I wanted to speak up. Now to mosey on about my day...
re: worth of the MFA
I think that if I had an amazing job that I would have to throw away to enter an MFA, my answer might be different. However, I also think that if I had that amazing job doing something I'm super happy and fulfilled doing, I probably wouldn't have applied to a full-res MFA in the first place.
When it comes down to it, the economy right now is *terrible* and I've been trying to get a decent job for the last 9 months to no avail. I am currently working for $15 an hour and commuting about an hour and a half every day. And not even working full time. There are certainly more dire straits to be in, but I am making less now than I was making at my first job out of college 7 years ago, so comparatively, it ain't so great. The prospect of having a funded couple of years to meet other writers and get formal teaching experience holds great appeal for me.
The big argument seems to be that getting an MFA is no guarantee for anything. Well sure. In 2010, getting any kind of higher degree doesn't guarantee much. Doesn't guarantee jobs, doesn't guarantee tenure, doesn't guarantee success. Hell, it doesn't even guarantee 2-3 uninterrupted years of writing which we all cling to as this magical notion. It guarantees only that you'll be around other writers and that you'll likely be working your ass off.
What I know is that when I was trying to apply for teaching jobs last summer with my MA, I couldn't get them. Most of them wouldn't even accept my application without an MFA and/or at least two syllabi for classes I had developed and taught myself. Getting an MFA will not guarantee that I can get a job teaching, but it will at least allow me to apply for one, to have the credentials necessary.
I am personally not looking for tenure-track work. I would be happy teaching at a JC. I have several friends in the Bay area who teach lit and writing at 2-3 colleges at a time to make ends meet. And I would be fine with that. My ultimate goal is to work/run a nonprofit org teaching writing and photography in a disadvantaged community, and having these letters after my name and formal experience will make me more competitive when I apply for grants. I know that I want to teach, and I don't plan on stopping until I get some kind of job in that regard. Even the work I'm doing right now teaching elementary kids English at a tutoring center is an experience that I value and enjoy. If I end up doing this again in three years until I can find other work, so be it.
I think the only way to really gauge the value of getting an MFA is to consider the experience you will have while you're there. What comes after isn't relevant. Grad school strains relationships, makes huge demands on your time and sanity, and does set you back professionally in whatever track you were doing before if you don't continue it in some vein throughout the program. I worked as a wedding photographer and editor before I began an MA three years ago. I have not been able to get work in either field lately, despite having years of experience. However, neither of these are fields I want to get back into for any reason that isn't monetary; I have spent years trying to find the right kind of work for me and that isn't it.
Please take this with a grain of salt, but I say it with complete sincerity and good intentions: if you're not prepared to deal with losing the ground you'd gained in a different field, full-res is probably not the right answer for you.
A New School acceptance was just posted at Driftless House.
Damn New School. I hate them now. Unless I get called/emailed/pigeoned.
@DigAPony
Honestly, I would be incredibly excited for an acceptance. Milk it! I think the MFA program is invaluable for several reasons.
Has anyone been officially rejected by Michigan or Alabama? Seems like they're taking their time with it.
@ DigAPony
Hear, hear!
Re. value of MFA.
I'm going into the MFA program with my eyes wide open. My only purpose of getting an MFA program is to learn as much about writing as quickly as possible. For the next 2-3 years, I want to eat, drink, and sleep literature. In my spare time, I want to think about the art and craft of writing. That's it. The full immersion.
When I tell my friends and relatives about my MFA plans, I always tell them it's a worthless degree; that is, it doesn't guarantee any kind of employment anywhere. That doesn't bother me. Upon graduation, I'm not planning on getting a job as a teacher, editor, tutor, etc.
I just want to work on my novels and short story collections.
Ughh... Hope the New School lets me in. If they don't, this will be the second time they've rejected me. Kind of feeling like that scene in the Royal Tenenbaums when Pagota sticks Royal with a shiv.
"That's the last time you stick a knife in me!"
@Woon - How many novels are you working on? Ha. Also, you have the right attitude. Though I don't expect to learn very much about writing in my MFA. The only reason I'm doing it is for the time.
Woon, I like your style.
Sorry guys, I didn't mean to be a downer on the traditional MFA program! Those of you who are accepted should of course be absolutely thrilled...I know it's completely ridiculous, but I'm almost kind of envious of the people who are unemployed. For those who are unemployed/not satisfied with their jobs, the traditional MFA can be a welcomed escape into an amazing experience...but I because feel so obligated to keep working, especially under the weight of these hefty undergraduate loans, that even if I were somehow amazing enough to get into, say, Iowa, I'd have to turn it down.
I can only do a traditional program if it's where I live and if it will allow me to keep working. I live in New York City, and as Seth has said so many times (with so many fair points to prove it), New York City is perhaps the worst place to do an MFA. For me, the pursuit of the writing dream is incredibly difficult to balance with the necessities, and so to make myself feel better I have to do my best to cling to the pros of low-res programs and the cons of traditional programs.
Everyone applying to traditional programs, stay steady and strong! You know best about what you need and want, and what anyone else says or thinks should matter very little.
@ DigAPony: I agree. I'm excited about it! I think that if you know what your reasons are and you're going in with your eyes open, good on you. There are tons of people who think it's a pointless endeavor to be a writer anyway. I seriously doubt anyone on here is expecting to be lord of a castle once they have an MFA in hand.
@Andrew
I emailed Michigan and Alabama today to see what was up with notificaition. I havent heard back from Bama, but I did from Michigan. They said "Letters went out Friday, you should have yours by early next week." That was all. So, it is all still up in the air.
I know a watched pot never boils, but I can't help myself. I'm about to drive myself crazy!
re: the MFA program
If I get in, I'm not going in with any expectations other than I will be able to focus on my work enough get a decent novel/book of short stories out of it. I'm just at this point in my life where it's time for me to do something different (well, either way I will: if I don't get in this year I'm seriously thinking of going abroad to teach).
@klairkwilty -- LOL! I meant novel singular. However, I have written two novels. They're unpublished and absolute crap, but I've got two under my belt. HA HA!
FOC, a new category.
So I just got a call from a strange Virginia number. I pick up, and the person is like, "Hi, this is Linda-something-or-other, from the graduate department of... Shakespeare at Mary Baldwin College. Just wanted to know if you would like to apply this year."
Seriously?
Not cool, Mary Baldwin College. Not cool.
So, I've been lurking for some time now, and I wanted to throw in my school list for the ranking gods:
2010
----
WUSTL (Rejected)
Syrcause (Rejected)
Wisconsin (Rejected)
Virginia
Montana
Iowa
UNC-Greensboro
Notre Dame
Purdue
University of Florida
Arizona State University
Vanderbilt
Alaska-Fairbanks (Tentative Yes)
Also a note:
I have been applying to MFA programs for about three years now, and during this time, I have been working as a contract writer with a number of different companies. I was equally excited and disappointed when I received my first acceptance from a program (Columbia, NY). In fact, I was so ecstatic, I had thought it was the Art Institute of Chicago calling me, and I wound up asking the director why in the hell he would have an orientation in New York when then school was in Chicago. Ha. Yeah, egg on my face. Still, the funding gods were not on my side, and I made the--in my opinion--practical decision to decline rather than take on that debt.
The following year, I was accepted at Montana (no funding), Alaska-Fairbanks (some funding), and waitlisted at Notre Dame (pretty far down on the list). It was so difficult not to go to Montana and even more so to say no to Alaska, but I am a firm believer in the no-pay-MFA philosophy (no-pay as in free not as in no payoff, geez! :D). So, this year, I am waiting and hoping again, and maybe with some luck, the third time will be the charm. A dear friend of mind has already been accepted to Iowa, and for some reason that inspires me with more hope than I had before. I guess I'm pretty calm about the process, having gone through it twice now. What'll happen will happen, and I will always subscribe to idea that good writing outs itself. Whether you get an MFA to do that or work as a nurse while writing in your off hours, just keep writing, and eventually you will find an audience.
Here's a little MFA afternoon humor break:
"The 7 Best Literal Music Videos"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/03/the-7-best-literal-music_n_249976.html
Bonnie Tyler's "Total Eclipse" was the best... her random ninjas made me cry.
Hi all. I feel pretty silly now, but I've been doing the whole application process on my own, with some input from my advisor. I really wish I'd read the comments section on this site sooner (though I did read the posts); it would have been so helpful during those long nights in December and January! However, I can at least read now for support during these difficult few weeks.
Here's my list:
Rejected:
UC Boulder (snail mail. I got the letter yesterday, along with a bloody paper cut while trying to open it. Talk about insult to injury! Or injury to insult.)
University of Missouri-Kansas City (snail mail early February, very disappointing)
Washington University in St. Louis (email mid-February)
Bard (email mid-February)
No word yet:
Iowa (online profile says the decision is "In Progress" but it's been like that for weeks)
Emerson
UMass Boston
School of the Art Institute of Chicago
Stony Brook Southampton
VCU
Virginia
Portland
Does anyone know when and how those schools respond? I know Virginia is usually pretty slow, but I don't know about the rest. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Big CONGRATULATIONS to the lucky accepteds!
RE: Value of MFA
I think Joyce said it best when he said, "You have to be willing to make the biggest mistake of your life."
An MFA is a totally different animal than someone entering a PhD in the humanities, hoping to land a tenured position. While I can say I understand peoples fears, particularly given my own circumstances, I have to conclude that if one's harboring such fears, perhaps he or she would do well to think about other options.
@Lo Real Maravilloso -- re. Michigan. Could you elaborate?
Apologies. Mind = "mine" and I left out a "the" hehe.
@ Red Micky
"Zombie cult?...ARRGGHH flying altar boy!!!"
Makes me laugh every single time.
@Woon: Just a stored up vent I had about denying applications based on administrative failures. Nothing against the actual instruction in the program. I just recalled seeing a few people who had been denied because they were missing one of two copies of a transcript. I also believe that's why I avoided applying to them this year. At least other schools make an effort to say they try to collect missing materials (even if they don't). :D
@ Red Micky
"And they shouldn't fence at night... or they're gonna hurt the gymnasts!"
ACCEPTED to Pittsburgh in poetry via email!! No funding though :(
Word, y'all! I think we all have a good eyes-wide-open, realistic mentality about the MFA. Good juju.
@ smiling raindrops
Don't worry, you weren't being a downer at all! Low-res has a lot of great qualities, and if I had a good job that I enjoyed I would definitely go that route. I'll trade you my unemployment for your job. :) (Seriously. I've had jobs since I was 14, and yet I've been on unemployment for so long that my checks are about to run out. Come on, fall!)
@weighswithwords
I understand Joyce's quote as "Don't be afraid to be a fool," which can involve anything, not just joining an MFA program. And I think anyone would do well to consider all their options. Fear shouldn't be a red flag saying "You're not right for graduate studies."
AHHH!!! Also just accepted to Sarah Lawrence in poetry!!! OMG.
Pretzel:
Have you checked out Driftless House for trends in response times?
http://driftless-house.blogspot.com/2010/02/2010-cw-mamfaphd-application-responses.html
Not an exact science for predicting this year's response times, but gives you a bit of a ballpark.
LAURA T:
CONGRATS!!! this my dear is total march radness day for you!! i am so happy for you!!
Congratulations, Laura T!
And everyone else I've missed....sometimes I can barely keep up.
@ Laura T
Holy crap, congratulations! Two acceptances on the same day?? That's awesome!
Re. low-res. I applied to traditional full-res programs because I wanted the full immersion experience of walking around campus with my backpack, meeting with classmates face-to-face, workshopping in a real classroom, reading Dostoyevsky on the green lawn in the center of campus, eating crappy dorm food with my meal plan, taking the bus to random places while editing my short stories, sleeping in my -10 degree-rated sleeping bag in my crappy apartment, running laps in the university rec center, and checking out the university health center when I have the flu. Congregating with leftist protesters on campus and screaming "This shight is corrupt!" is an added bonus.
MARCH RADNESS, LAURA T
@DigAPony
Haha, well, I never said I had the most enjoyable job in the world. Mostly what's keeping me here is all the money I owe for my undergraduate degree!
@Laura T
CONGRATS!!! Can you believe that you were freaking out about your Plan B? Rock on!
According to DH's response trends, I may have 1-2 weeks more of this torture.
My birthday's on the 18th, too; either give me a great birthday present or beat me down beforehand so that I can properly enjoy it.
@Laura T -- Congrats! Happy for you! Other than Rutgers and Sarah Lawrence, what was the third school you were admitted to?
@ Laura T Congratulations! What a great day!
@Marivilloso - That is exactly why I didn't bother applying to Michigan this year. The disclaimer on their website frightened me off, and I've heard the same stories of rejections based on frivolous documents not arriving on time (the manuscript is the most important piece--who cares if the rest of the docs don't arrive by January 1st?). For that reason, I told Michigan to go to hell. (This involved my clicking away from the website. I didn't actually call them up and say, "Hey, Michigan, fuck you, man!" Though I should have.)
Jasmine,
Thanks for the link! I hadn't seen it before, but that's very helpful. Best of luck to you!
Congrats to all the yesses!
Damn, Laura T! Congratulations!
For anyone with no acceptances or otherwise down in the dumps about MFA/PhD programs:
"There was Ed Elbow, a fourty-four-year-old who just received his PhD in creative writing from one of the few schools to offer such a degree. He'd already earned MFAs in creative writing from not one but three different programs, and before that a BA in creative writing from his undergraduate school. Not that he'd been in school uninterruptedly since kindergarten: He'd taken a whole year off once to roll up his sleeves and work for a living, first as a bartender, then as a short-order cook, then in a homeless shelter, then on a fishing boat--and all strictly for the life experience so vital (hed been told in workshops) to a writer, since he was independently wealthy and didn't need to work at all, much less to sell a book. And he'd yet to write a book. By now he should have been the greatest writer of all time, since according to Dank, Continuing Ed (as they called him) had, in fact, had talent to begin with. That talent had disintegrated, though, as a result of decades of "constructive criticism," the way the facial bones and cartilage of a plastic surgery addict finally disintegrate from the strain of too many surgeries."
(From Christopher Miller's newest book, "The Cardboard Universe")
I, too, received the e-mail Nadia got. I've made the call back. We'll see what happens. AHHH. I'm freaking out.
M. B. Wells!
We have the same birthday!
And it's funny, because not one of my documents reached Iowa by the deadline and I still got in. Go figure.
There are also unconfirmed rumors of Oregon eating people as well. (Unconfirmed, presumably because said people have been eaten.)
(Please excuse the spelling error above... contrary to popular belief, I do know how to spell "forty")
@Maravil... - You should go back to the previous mailbag and see what I wrote about Virginia. A couple people took me seriously. Ha.
Hobo:
Hilarious!
THANK YOU for the congratulations!!!
@ Woon,
The third acceptance was Pittsburgh!
Well, if I don't get in anywhere, I'm moving to the island of Rand McNally, where people walk around with hats on their feet and shoes on their heads, and hamburgers eat people!
@Lo Real Maravilloso - re. Oregon. Only poets.
@Marval.. - Here it is, reposted:
"I mean, seriously! Iowa City is only 4.5 hours from my front door. I'd much rather make that move than to the east coast, which is 452,000 hours from my front door. Nobody even lives in Virginia. I heard it looks like Tatooine except that there are some smart people. However, most of the smart people speak Mandarin, which means I'd have nobody to talk with. Lonely, if you ask me. Virginia is the land of despair.
"They don't even have drinking water there," my friend says, leaning over.
"I heard that too," I said. But I only said that so he wouldn't think he knew something I didn't.
They don't even have air in Virginia.
Or happiness."
@Jameson
Are you Irish, by the by? Love me some Irish whiskey. I've got more than a little Irish in me, though our friends on here from Ireland might likely slap me for saying such.
I agree, people do well to examine all their options--in writing, in everything. I suppose I just approach the whole situation with an attitude that best reflects what Klair and Woon have expressed: an MFA (optimally) provides time and full immersion in the same cage with the beast to which we're committed.
I should also rightly qualify what I said earlier. Due to deferred admission last year, I have the option to attend an MFA and stay in New York, whether I hear from anyone else or not. For me, though, this option would not provide the unmitigated time and immersion that I suppose many of us are talking about. I'd have to work probably 40 hours a week, and I'm not sure that's desirable, having already acquired an advanced degree while working quite a lot.
So I suppose I should say, in my particular circumstances, with my particular attitudes, I wouldn't hesitate to enter an MFA program that provided funding.
But I should also say I fear not doing something that would enrich me and my writing, funding or otherwise.
@klairkwilty-I loved hearing this. Shows you that what really counts (or should) is the writing. s
ALSO, I finally got to speak with the coordinator of the MFA program at Rutgers-Newark, who said that I am indeed accepted. Yay for this online status business being cleared up! She also said that they have not made any decisions about funding and TAships.
@Hobo
Thanks for the laugh!
Pequah is going to show up and bitch-slap me for my Michigan hateration.
@klair:
Well, I could've told you that about Virginia. Except, I don't need air to live, so I really would be a perfect fit for the MFA *wink* *wink* :D
new york city is the greatest place on earth period
Re. Michigan. I didn't apply to Michigan because I'm an alum and I hated Angell Hall, where the MFA program is housed. I remember taking in the expressions of the students walking around Angell Hall and thinking they're the saddest looking bunch I had ever seen.
Hi! I've never posted on here before, but I just got accepted to the New School for Creative Non-Fiction.
My little sister pointed out that I will no longer have to live in "a stupid conservative state" (AZ), and that "there's gonna be Plan B everywhere! Like, an endless supply!"
These are the important things, am I right? :)
@ Hobo: AWESOME. loved it.
@ Laura T: Congrats on your new acceptances! And YAY! So glad you finally get that peace of mind and assurance from Rutgers.
@Woon:
I completely understand. If I've spent time around two or three different sets of MFA students, and I was really disappointed by some and really enthused by others. It's all about personalities, I suppose. That's partially why I like smaller programs. I weigh in with the Goldilocks factor here. I like programs that are big (but not too big) and small (but not too small). The just right people seem to be just right for my personality. :) That being said, I'm sure there are friendly and wonderful people in all programs, but I'm a firm believer in anecdotal evidence. :D
Wait...so I won't be lord of a castle?
tho i am so happy for everyone hearing, today is a tough day for me with New School AND Sarah Lawrence notifying... my two top schools and an empty inbox/voicemail.
I just ate a LOT of guacamole. will be moving on to ice cream and wine later.
Cecil,
I'm sorry to say this, but you're statement is redundant. The words "New York" already mean "greatest place on earth period." Anybody who doesn't know this is probably from . . . I dunno, Miami or some such rustic place.
Re. Michigan. Y'all can post all the hate you want re. Michigan even though I'm an alum. I love the school and the campus and have fond memories, but I myself make fun of it all the time. I think it's healthy to be open.
@ Jasmine,
And I see we were born the exact same day!!
Were we separated at birth?
LOL
@Coreyann
Same boat re: TNS & SLaw.
Nothing to eat at my desk right now but I do now there is a bottle of wine in the fridge at home. That helps. A little.
But the day's not over so I'm keeping my fingers crossed for both of us!!
@ Elissa: hahaha. unless it's the castle that's constructed solely out of poorly written student papers, probably not. ;)
@Chelsea
Glad I'm not alone. Here's hoping we get good news!
@Woon - I went to Webster University in St Louis. We had English and writing classes in a big house. It was the best time!
You can see it here: http://www.webster.edu/depts/artsci/philosophy/
@Woon - However, the University of Missouri - St Louis is the most depressing place I've ever stepped foot.
I've never been to Missouri. Period.
Congratulations to sooo many ppl I haven't been able to say congrats to. I have decided to give up on the hundred of comments I missed over the past few days. Special shout out to Laura T for:
(1) The most hilariously inspirational way to find out an acceptance (re. Rutgers)
(2) Having the most awesome March Radness day on record thus far.
Period.
Just got a GNE from UNCW saying that, in essence, I am on their waitlist.
Random thought, so please forgive: Restoration Hardware's homepage splash-screen is probably the most magical thing I've seen since Britney Spears's Fantasy perfume commercial.
Congratulations on your acceptances, acceptees.
@ klairkwilty - for the record, I did *not* take you seriously. Kinda weird that people did.
@ Lo Real Maravilloso - just out of curiosity, how do people know that their applications weren't considered at Michigan because documents didn't arrive on time? Did the school tell them? Is this conjecture or confirmed? I know about the disclaimer on the website, but lots of schools have similar disclaimers - Iowa, for one, who insists recommenders be forewarned about adhering to the deadline.
M. B. Wells
Was your birth early and unexpected, caused by excess amounts of cabbage consumption on St. Patrick's Day? If so, then yes, we were separated at birth.
Question about City College:
So the online app requires a SOP, and it says the SOP must be ONE page.
I've called and emailed multiple times and can't get anyone to even respond to confirm this.
Does anyone know what they want at CCNY for the SOP? I'm getting reluctant to burn the $125 to apply there, but I also have three LORs burning a hole in my pocket.
Got a phonecall from New Mexico State U and I am in!
YAAAAAY LAURA T!
sorry, that was for poetry.
@ Sarah
Congrats on New School! But let's keep the AZ hateration (thank you, Mary J. Blige) to a minimum. Yes, there are many downsides, but I didn't really appreciate it there until I moved away.
You are all hilarious.
I can say that I sent only *one* transcript to Michigan, that their online system said I was missing a transcript, that I called to clear it up, and they assured me (at the English office) that my application was complete and in committee.
Later, I was denied, and I remain skeptical of the conjecture about tossed-out apps.
Congrats Jojee!
Is there anyone else out there who doesn't like big cities??
While implicitly promulgating my NY elitism, I committed a most elementary error: confusing your and you're. Ah well, at least I have a knack for irony. That's another thing we have over Angelenos :P
It's all in love, folks. It's all in love.
"TC3" at the Speakeasy was told by Nebraska that their PHD notifications will be out by the end of the week. Anyone else hear this? I wonder if this is for Rhetoric/Comp and Creative Writing? Or just one...
re: Woon and Michigan. I also went to U of M, majored in English. I liked the people, Angell Hall was indeed rather lame, and Ann Arbor is pretty nice, but sadly it's a place that is rapidly losing its small-town college charm. The best bookstore in town was recently converted into a CVS drugstore. So if you're in, please move there and make it cool again! And southeastern Michigan in general is about the worst place I can think of, in America.
re: UMSL. I am from Saint Louis. Saint Louis is fucking rad. Really. Tons of great places to go out and lots of local flavor. UMSL is in a pretty dumb area in a northern, suburban type of place, but UMSL does a really good job with its creative writing department, as far as I can tell. In all honesty, though, I didn't apply because I'm in Saint Louis and I didn't want to haul my ass up to UMSL every day, nor did I want to move into its environs. So, take that for what it's worth. Obviously I am now regretting this decision because I have SIX REJECTIONS and assumed rejections take up pretty much the rest of my list. Like the great David Spade said, just shoot me.
I mostly only applied to small city schools, with some moderate sized cities thrown in there:
Wyoming (rejected)
Oregon
Montana (assumed rejection)
CSU (accepted)
CU Boulder (accepted)
Boise State (accepted)
Brown
Vanderbilt (assumed rejection)
New Mexico State (accepted)
I have a low tolerance for cities and a high need for solitude. That said, I live in Boston/Cambridge and sort of love it.
Anyone heard about interviews for MFA playwriting programs? Most of them require interviews prior to acceptance...
Thanks!
@peaquah:
I personally know individuals who were told this about their applications when they contacted the school. Again, I cite anecdotal evidence. It's just standoffish of a school to do that, just like Cornell or Brown or whoever it is who has the one-year MFA saying their program is not for the faint of heart. That just suggests they know you are publishable or have already been published and just want to put their stamp on you for future posterity. That I also find discouraging. Still, I bet the quality of the education is stellar. Some schools just feel more full of themselves than others. Iowa, oddly enough, does not strike me that way. But of course, what a school projects and what the reality is are often two different things.
Got an e-mail from New School telling me to call them. I called. I'm accepted in their fiction program.
Now I have to check out the tuition and financial aid (debt, here I come).
Stil, I'm pretty stoked.
Yes future posterity is redundant. Hehe.
@Dig--
Me! I'm neither a fan "metropoli" or "quaint towns". I don't know what the hell I like... something in between, I suppose. As long as it can support an orchestra, but not multiple national sporting teams, I'm cool.
So I got the call back about the e-mail sent out by The New School.
In for Fiction via phone! Cheehee!
@ Lo Real Maravilloso - I honestly have no idea if Michigan actually does this, but it would really surprise me. Not having the writing sample and SOP by the deadline I understand - other details get lost in the mail. However, they do have a disclaimer on their site for just this reason I suppose.
In all fairness, though, we have no idea what other schools might do this. Half the schools out there could throw out incomplete apps before they start reading. I doubt it, but if they don't publicize the fact, how are we to know?
Laura T,
What an insane day!!! Congrats!!
Has anybody who applied to TNS in poetry received a "call us" e-mail from Admissions today?
I've only seen Fic/CNF notifications (I think) so far.
@Woon and mj--'nother Mich alum here. Got my undergrad there, uh, ahem, thirty years ago. And started in the PHD program but took a "temporary leave" for personal reasons that has somehow stretched till, uh, now (and the personal reason is 27 years old...)
I adored Ann Arbor, and get back there now and then because of some particular connections, but it's definitely quite different from when I went to school there.
I didn't apply, can't really uproot, though since my husband is also an alum, and we have friends there, I might have been able to pull if off (then, I looked at the numbers....)
@Sarah T--Wow, wow, and wow!!!! Congrats all around! (and when you talk to R-N again, please tell them to let me know, one way or the other--dang!)
@Ya'll/Yinz This may be a "duh" question, but do you know if there is any way to check application status online for Brown, Columbia, NYU, or Indiana? That goes for FSU, too, because their online login system just appears to take me to their BlackBoard and I can't seem to find the decision button there. It's probably just a sit and wait situation, though.
Congrats to the acceptances and waitlists! :)
someone got into arizona state for poetry (P&W blog).
@DigAPony Oh make no mistake, I will miss it here! There's no hateration OR holleratin in this dancery. :)
@ Jasmine,
Ah, no...I was almost three weeks late...though my birth was caused by excessive stress (over my birth) and food consumption.
@ Jeremy,
I've tried calling CCNY, too...with no response. It's pretty damn aggravating.
Thanks for the camaraderie, Jojee and Gena! While I love visiting big cities, I don't do well living in them (as in, Tucson was too big for me). I also crave solitude and somewhere to get away. Thus why I am excited about U Idaho and Northern Michigan!
I've just been accepted to Brooklyn College! Joshua Heinkin called and talked to me for about a half hour about the program. He said they received over 500 applications this year. He was extremely informative, and generous with time. He invited me to sit in on a workshop and even offered to pick me up at the subway.
@all admits -- Congrats!
@Anti & Xavier -- Good on ya! Keep in touch if y'all are thinking about The New School. I'm in for fiction as well. You coming from New York?
Hit me at jasonedcollins at hot mail dot com
@ Sarah - nice. What exactly IS a dancery, and how do I visit one?
Congrats Hemlock! Heinken and Hempel!
@Dig Have another listen to "Family Affair"! Mary J. will point you in the general direction.
@weights
I'm coming from PA (I go to college in Philly). I'm glad New School accepted me, but I'm still holding out for Hunter and/or Brooklyn College (Hemlock, congrats).
My Fiction Writing teacher gives classes at the New School. I might have to contact her just to see what to expect.
Anyone heard anything from Columbia, SAIC, CCNY, or Queens College?
Congrats to the New School admits! I loved going to the Summer Writing Colony up there, though they tried to gyp me once.
@ Anti-
I applied to SAIC, too, and no word yet. I'm assuming a rejection from there, but I wouldn't have the money to go anyway.
Still keeping my fingers super-crossed for CCC!
So...Brooklyn notified some fiction applicants on Friday that they were accepted. Given that they only accept like five new applicants per year should I start crying?
@Kristen
you and me both girl. i have felt n the dumps waiting on this for a few days now. sigh.
Accepted to Butler this afternoon, CNF, via e-mail!
Just like Pema D, I also just received one of those GNE's from UNCW, letting me know that I'm on their version of a waitlist I suppose, with their rolling admissions.
@Pema: Perhaps I'll see you at the beach? My best to you! Despite all of the recent controversy with UNCW, it is an excellent program I think. I graduated from their BFA program last year, and my writing certainly flourished there. I wouldn't mind going back to ole Carolina. Cool little city there, with much to do.
@All of you still waiting and waiting--I do feel you, I do. I know some, if not many, have said this sort of thing already, but it's true: I received one rejection in mid-February (out of 12 programs), and then just that awful silence until now. It can happen that fast; thought for sure I'd get flat-rejected by them all, as illogical as that may be. Just started to get that sinking feeling as each day passed. I know I don't need to explain what that feels like to anyone.
If I can get a little lucky; anyone can, believe me.
Good vibes to y'all!
@kristen and @miss private eye
I'll be joining your club. It seems like one person got a phone call on Friday, and one person today. Have you heard of any others?
@Wells
Yeah, SAIC is incredibly expensive. However, their loose curriculum is tempting, to say the least. Especially since I'm kind of experimental with my writing. I wouldn't mind having the freedom to compose loose, artsy fartsy experimental fiction that my friends and I would appreciate (but everyone else wouldn't get).
@everyone
Have any of you taken workshops before applying to an MFA? Did this in anyway influence your decision to apply (like it did to me)?
I'm pretty sure Brooklyn accepts 12, anyway.
How are all the other fiction applicants to Ole Miss feeling (besides grieved for literature's loss) about Mr. Hannah's passing? Does it change your feelings about having applied to Ole Miss? I still haven't quite got it through my head that Mr. Hannah's actually gone, so I'm not sure how I feel about it.
BTW, does anyone know what the department will do, or can anyone hazard a guess? Will they attempt to hire someone short-term, or attempt to recruit a "name"? It's never a good time to lose one of our great writers, but what a strange time for his department, too, with the evaluation of fiction candidates on the table...
Thoughts?
Ah, well that's good news then! Thanks guys!
@Kristen --- Right! Don't know many people I'd rather work with than Amy Hempel, myself. Or any. And I'm writing a novel..
Just got my rejection from SIUC. I was hoping for a wait list, but when I saw the envelope -- address label askew, flap nearly left unsealed save for one inch of adhesion at the right corner -- I knew it was not assembled with the love behind any sort of good news.
Then the letter itself: terse and with a stamped signature faded in the middle.
Thank you, SIUC.
@ Anti-
Yeah, some of those classes they offer are just too interesting to want to pass up. The curriculum is the major thing that attracted me to SAIC.
And I have been taking workshops; actually I applied to and started the graduate certificate program at a nearby college last August; doing that solidified my decision to pursue an MFA.
What is SAIC?
I'm assuming SIUC is Southern Illinois University at Chicago (?).
weighswithwords:
Thank you so much. The New School was one of my top choices. So I may end up there, but I'd be coming from Honolulu, Hawaii — small fish in a big ass pond. I will definitely need to be in touch with some kind of support network!
E-mail is lmoreno056 [at] gmail [dot] com
Re. Amy Hempel. I only read her much-anthologized "In the Cemetary Where Al Jolson is Buried," and I didn't like it much. But I'm not very Hempel-read.
@ Anti-
Yeah, the curriculum is what attracted me to the school; those classes were just too interesting to me. However, I might be a little too traditional for the program, and that's O.K.
I took my mom to the SAIC day here in Atlanta, and the first thing she said afterward was, "That school seems so...'boutique-y'." LOL
@Woon
Her collection of short stories gives a broader and more insightful view into her as a writer. I personally found her most popular piece to seem somewhat mediocre in comparison to some of the others in the collection.
I think it would be absolutely amazing to be given the opportunity to soak some of her knowledge and critique up.
woon, you silly. southern illinois at carbondale. maybe you remember that chicago is at the very northern end of the state, by lake michigan?
@ Dry Leaves
I got the UNCW GNE aka waitlist too! I wonder how many people are on the waitlist...
THIS IS MY FIRST PIECE OF GOOD NEWS, GUYS!!!! I'm so happy... well, you know, except basically I'm *still* waiting around with no real acceptance. But it's encouraging!!! and there's still hope for UNCW, and therefore, the other ten I'm waiting on!!!!!
Congrats to all the acceptances in the past, oh, 24 hours! I had a huge presentation/conference thing at work and was off email. I got back and woooO! so much happy news! hooray!
SAIC is School of the Art Institute of Chicago. Unless there's another SAIC out there that I don't know about...
@Meredith
congrats on the good news!!
re. SIUC -- LOL! I wasn't thinking geographically. Was trying to fit the letters with what I knew of Illinois.
@ Dry Leaves and Meredith
I got the same email from UNCW. Can I ask what genres you folks are in? I'm a fictioner.
SAIC is the School of the Art Institute of Chicago.
One of the reasons why I applied there is because I tend to work better in artistic environments (dropped out of Rutgers and community college for art school. Best decision I ever made).
@Wells
I like boutique-y! But yeah, I do understand that art schools are usually divisive with people (and yes, many of intructors are pretentious douche-tards. But I'll take an arty douche-tard over an academic douche-tard any day).
@ Anti-
Yeah, the artistic environment played a big part in why I applied to both SAIC and CCC.
But yeah, Mom didn't like it; she wanted me to go back to Vanderbilt. But it didn't quite work out that way...
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