mj: The last present he gave me was also a tracksuit. I think he's calling me fat? But I'm not! And, I mean, I run sometimes, but I'm not the sort of runner who needs multiple fancypants tracksuits. Haha. So weird.
I know it sucks, Kara. To put things in perspective, I applied for two non-MFA year-long fundy/jobby things as plan Bs, both of which are pretty cool in their own right, and I found out this week I got both of them. Needless to say, this did nothing to calm my anxiety about the potential need to use them. I thought it would, but it didn't.
I called Indiana yesterday, and they said that they'll be notifying in March, and will do it either via email or via mail (NOT depended on whether you get in or not, but rather what your offer is). Hope that helps! A little vague, but we can ease up a little bit on that tension for now.
I find your words touching, really. This whole process is absolutely brutal. We've all had to stare down the barrel of our Plan Bs; had to ask ourselves if it really is worth all the heartache of rejection, the anxiety of waiting. Had to question whether or not we're actually any good.
This my first time applying full-scale, to a shit ton of programs, and the last few weeks have been absolutely terrifying. But I came to a point a few days ago, after reading one of Seth's generous posts, where I kind of made peace with the whole situation.
I went back to my sample. It's not perfect, and it won't win any awards anytime soon.. but I'm proud of it. I believe in what I'm doing, artistically, right now. And really, no admissions committee (or army of committees) can change that, or take that away from me.
Fortunately, it was only a couple days after I came to my revelation, that I got some good news. And then some more.
The majority of the people on this blog will get into programs, this year. Some won't, sadly. But the important thing isn't getting into programs; it's doing what you love and loving what you're doing. That's it.
Yes, this blog can be a bit much at times, for all of us, I'm sure. But it really is a kind of group therapy for us. And when one of us receives good news, we all cheer, because we're all in the same boat.
It sounds like more than most of us, myself certainly included, you deserve good things. And it's a relief to see that things can work out for you when you work hard, stay humble, and try to keep everything in perspective.
They didn't do it yet for me, and I've officially gotten my rejection letter. So I don't know how on top of that they are. They might wait until the letters go out.
OOOOO was it an email or a hard copy? AND WHEN DID YOU RECEIVE IT? I listed my home address as my perm address & since I'm 200+ miles away at school, I can't obsessively stalk my mailbox/mailman the way I do the blogs.
Oh how I wish I had time to properly reply to more of you! But I'm at work and really shouldn't be posting at all. Sending general positive vibes to all mfa bloggers.
But I do have to share my weird MFA anxiety dream from last night: I dreamed that I was at my first day of an MFA program, and a lot of you were there, too - unfortunately I can't remember everyone now, but Dreux was there, and so was KayBay. Dreux was like this slightly overweight man with unkempt facial hair and a bad haircut. Kaybay looked very neat and pretty, but not to an annoying degree or anything. We were all in this big art classroom, and the professor was telling us we had to paint. Everyone started to complain - after all, we were there for a WRITING MFA, not a painting MFA - and the professor told us in a very loud voice that it was really important that we take classes in different genres (evidently this meant painting). Dreux stood up and started loudly complaining, saying "I didn't come all this way to learn paint-by-numbers!" and Kaybay started worrying aloud that she hadn't sent a painting sample in with her application, and maybe the MFA program was going to kick her out when they saw her art skills. And then I started passing out chocolate cupcakes, all the while worrying because I knew I had forgotten to put eggs in them, and I wondered if anyone would be able to tell the difference.
. . .
Clearly this is a sign that Dreux and Kaybay were meant to be together, and that I had better not help out with that Plan B bakery after all.
Dreux, LOL @ the real world. I haven't really been watching, but I knew Erika's boyfriend in high school, which makes the show really surreal. Reality shows are getting really bizarre overall. I feel like everybody knows somebody who has been on one. I think this makes 3 for me (two American Idol contestants, lol!)... what the hell? When it's my turn I'll be on The Amazing Race.
A little off topic, but does anybody have an idea of when the U. of Iowa has historically sent out acceptances to its M.A. in Literary Studies program?
I don't really confuse you and @Droo, it's just that, between you, there were a bunch of posts on GNEs and treatises about the ethics of sharing said notifications that I got confuzzled. My fault, though, as I was breezing through a couple of hundred posts.
Breezing, @Droo...see what I did there? I think the heat is getting to me. :P
AHHH lol at megan's dream! I almost skipped over it because it was long and I am antsy. I'm glad I stuck around. Paint by numbers made me laugh the most.
This year I combined one older university reference with two newer poetry references from two established poets, one of those a new reference for this year.
In previous years I had two university referees and one poetry referee.
I was watching the olympics last night---that shit is brutal! I thought getting rejections from MFA programs wash harsh until I saw the figure skaters and downhill skiers take some diggers. I mean, some of those people train forever then slip on the ice, or face plant onto it, or miss a gate, or blow their triple twist jump thingy. It's crazy to watch years of training and hope get obliterated in a only a second. Then, they have to wait another four years, hoping the whole time they don't get injured and actually make the team again. Talk about pressure. Those guys and gals have it much worse than us.
Dreux, Ahh, Project Runway! I used to actually watch they before I started realizing it was kind of boring. Call her and tell her I want some clothessss.
Hmm...I know a contestant from Top Chef (the first season, I think), someone on that Dr. Drew rehab/sober living show and someone who competed on (but lost) Celebrity Apprentice.
I was on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire a few years ago, but, sadly didn't win the million dollar prize. If I had, I could have applied to some of the full-tuition MFA programs and had no competition. :D
I'm curious -- what about making contacts? I was of the understanding that nepotism is frowned upon in the MFA world and that admissions are pretty merit-based. Does your experience suggest otherwise?
We writers may not risk life and limb in pursuit of our dreams, but at least most Olympic sports have some objective criteria by which to judge success. Even figure skating, which is very subjective, has a black-and-white definition of a triple lutz and a clear understanding of what defines a fall. Determining "great" writing from "decent" writing is almost entirely subjective, which is what makes this MFA application process all the more nervewracking. What one reader thinks is a fabulous story might barely get the attention of an adcom at another school. Which is why getting rejected from 10 MFA programs is not necessarily predictive of whether you'll get accepted to Iowa. In short, it sucks.
Dreux, I also tune in to see people succeed. That's the crazy thing about it. Every event there are big losers and big winners. I think it's amazing to watch--and the best distraction I've found so far.
Oh, I get it. Networking in order to get recs from folks who have experience with literary writing. Understood.
My recs came from two college creative writing profs and one guy I'd done workshops with at conferences multiple times.
All 3 were solid. The profs were a poet laureate and a Boston Globe book critic, respectively, and the non-prof is a multiple award winner (PEN shortlist, New York Times notable, blah blah). All 3 know me very well and I'm sure wrote good recs. I may feel pretty shaky about the quality of some of my SOPs, but I'm sure my recs stand up to the best of 'em.
Finally got moved from the Michener limbo into committee. Jamie, we are now in the same boat!
I also received a mysterious phone call with no one on the other line from Quebec. I currently have a deep hatred for Quebec now. WHY would someone from Quebec call me? WHY?
augh, I thought I was doing so well but no I am miserable.
Phillywriter, that's true. Subjectivity is a bitch. I've read plenty of stories and novels that I thought sucked, but that won certain awards and critical praise. But subjectivity also provides many different markets, and different ears---maybe one person thinks you suck, but a dozen more might think you're amazing. It's the subjectivity that gives each of us a chance.
I got to know these poets through a program I got into (after pleading) but couldn't afford - I then attended that school's Summer workshop (across an ocean) and got references, patiently, over two years.
Meanwhile, I was working with my local council of the arts to explore residencies they provided, and taught through those and really concentrated on learning the craft (I attached myself to a few dead poets, not literally mind((!)), and discovered how they matured - really worthwhile to do), pitched my own book to myself, did research, took on responsibilities, did more research, got rejected again here and there, was ignored by some poets I loved, got accepted to a famous residency, and started to hit the slipstream to my mature voice, I think, just on time, at 26. This period culminated by taking on a position as a poet-in-residence in a European country for a month, and fighting for the work of the poets I met there through workshops that sometimes went well and sometimes didn't.
It's just patience, and the great great great thing about poetry is that the sense of accretion, if you concentrate enough, is so strong, and you carry your poetic history with you - that's why I write it.
Congrats! I wonder if that means they've called all their fiction acceptances already, or if they instead e-mail some of the waitlists before they've finished accepting everyone....
One fiction writer reporting an acceptance from Amherst. Given the response-rate on this blog from other schools, I'd guess several pending decisions remain. Keep up the hope you guys!
Yeah, I picked that up after reading about him in Malcom Gladwell's latest book. That story was wonderful.
I was halfway through the collection when the earthquake in Haiti happened (A majority of the stories take place there). It was kind of surreal to read about how forgotten that place was, then to suddenly see it all over the news.
UT, Vandy, Amherst, and michigan... cricket. cricket. bueller? bueller?
I'm still hopeful about Amherst and Michigan, but I do wish vandy and UT would go ahead and give me a rejection so i can adequately drown my sorrows in chocolate and vodka (chocolate vodka? it's an option).
UT, Vandy, Amherst, and michigan... cricket. cricket. bueller? bueller?
I'm still hopeful about Amherst and Michigan, but I do wish vandy and UT would go ahead and give me a rejection so i can adequately drown my sorrows in chocolate and vodka (chocolate vodka? it's an option).
I just got an email that i'm on the Alabama fiction waitlist. Oh wow. Cautiously ecstatic, if that's possible.
I thought Alabama was done, and i was really mourning that one. Now i really will believe all those people who keep telling us-- baby, it ain't over til it's ooooverrrr.
SamStod, yeah, Gladwell's essay was what brought Fountain to my attention. I love the way he tells his stories, the voice is amazing--love the dark humor. Gladwell's essay also rocked.
Congratulations Rose! (...and I don't even know you)
Minnesota has a great program. Sometimes, I think I want to get into Minnesota just so that I too could write a funny paragraph about myself for my MFA students bio page.
Megan, your dream actually made me laugh OUT LOUD. That was hilarious! Even more priceless was Dreux's reaction. I am not bald! I am not fat, I say! I never! Ah, classic...
And you really must be psychic because I am pretty in a non-annoying way :P jk.
Congrats all acceptancees and wailtlistees! My beloved Courtney, CONGRATS! No news for me, just sitting here in limbo land, which ironically feels more like hell. I want some acceptance heaven!! Or even a waitlist "heaven" :( I just want something positive...
I'm just a applicant, yes I'm only an applicant and I'm sittin here on Baked Goods hill Well its a long long journey to Austin City, its a long long wait while I'm sitting in committee But someday I hope to have an MFA at least I hope and I pray that I will but until then I'm still just an applicant...
and yes, I have been waiting until I was in committee just to sing that!
And congrats to me for surviving this long with some semblance of fingernails left on my fingers. I don't know how much longer that will last, though. This shit's getting intense!
Congrats, RugbyToy! Wilmington, NC is the hometown of Michael Jordan, in case you didn't know. I drove by there once and thought, "Gee, this is the hometown of Michael Jordan."
OH! GAH! I forgot to share my email from UF (not a GNE, don't worry). She did confirm my materials (whew) and also said that they will begin notifying in "early March." So, it looks like they'll be notifying around the same time as last year. I hate waiting.
Courtney, congrats on the McNeese waitlist! Aren't you the first person I swapped samples with? We met under different names at the Speakeasy boards. If so, I'm rooting for you.
Also a shout out to these people for acceptances and waitlists in this mailbag:
RugbyToy for UNC
DigaPony for Northwestern.
KerryHeadley for George Mason
Rose for Minnesota and Wyoming wl.
BradSmith for Wyoming wl, Colorado, UMass
Goldenafternoon for UMass
GoFish for Iowa
WreckingLight for Iowa
Andrew for Minnesota wl
WeeMeathead for Alabama wl
Amanda for Syracuse wl, Vanderbilt wl
Vanni for Syracuse wl
Alexander for Syracuse wl
YellowLux for George Mason
Nick McRae for Vanderbilt wl
EPAC for Northwestern
MRM for Arizona State
Dryleaves for Wyoming wl
Mountainking for Syracuse wl
Sud for Carlow
Kate for UMass
Lipsha for George Mason
DanielleWheeler for UMass
Jojee for CSU
Astrid for UC Riverside
Evidently I have too much time on my hands. Sorry if I missed anyone.
Also got a call from UNCW (for poetry) but unfortunately I'm at work (in a silent lab), so I had to let it go to voicemail. Very friendly and warm message and it definitely seems like they are just starting the notification process, so, nobody panic! Hold fast :)
Technically, this is my third year, but last year I only applied to Iowa as they will renew your application materials (except the sample) from the previous year, if you ask them to. My first year I applied straight out of undergrad to four schools and got totally rejected.
YaRebels, I'm not sure about the UK ones, I think maybe you might have a shot with Edunburgh, really good uni here, but I'm not sure! and Maybe Trinity college in Dublin, because I think the application closes in March for their creative writing program!
I know Glasgow have notified, and Oxford deadline is already gone!
Good luck, I'm sure you will be fine, just stressed yeah? I'm the same, wish I had applied for more in the States now! :( Oh well!
Any poets hear from UMass today? I know we had a couple of Fiction acceptances, and some "unofficial" offers to poets yesterday, just wondering if anyone heard today.
@Frankish I did request one! On Saturday. It was my second request, the first one went ignored :\ And yet I got every single FAFSA email they sent lol.
Oxford has a second deadline in March - it carries less of a chance because spaces may already be filled - at £25 it's worth a shot...probably.
A couple of good tutors there - world-class facilities, great name, great experience, but still only a part-time course, so you may be looked down on (as is the Oxford way), and you'd be paying big money as an American student (they take lots of Americans).
I'd recommend Ireland at either Queen's in Belfast, or Trinity in Dublin - in many respects, with the (particularly Northern) Irish poetic heritage in the last 40 years, there's a case to be made to say that there's no better place in the world to learn.
East Anglia in England has a decent reputation too.
Yeah, WreckingLight is right! The program at Trinity is supposed to be really good, adn the college is beautiful, but I'm not sure what the fees would be for internationals, but as WL said, defo worth a shot. Good Luck, let me know if you apply for Trinity or Oxford!
Dublin is an expensive city to live in, and a city I actually don't particularly like, but Trinity has a good reputation, and you'd have to investigate whether they give scholarships for gifted international students (I don't think they do, at least internally from the College itself, from my quick glance).
I can't vouch for the quality, by the way - as a 1-year course it could be very difficult, in my estimation, to meaningfully deal with a project. However, an e-mail to the course director, asking about how they'd structure your learning, and a base figure for international costs, would give you a better idea than I could.
@Rugby and Daniel Wheeler--way to go on UNCW! Awesome news...I graduated from their bfa program in Dec of 2008; good people, good times. Though I write CNF, Lavonne Adams and Mark Cox (his poetry is one of my favorite of the contemporaries) were my teachers for a couple workshops and forms courses, and have nothing but good things to say about them. Stand-up people at UNCW. And yes, the location is about perfect for me.
@Rugby, to answer your question, they are certainly one of my top picks, other than a couple--depending on those schools' funding--they are my top pick. Only program that I'm strongly leaning towards going to even if no funding was offered. Oh man, now I gotta sweat it out a bit now though... Cheers!
Jeeze, I leave to go to the doctor and all hell breaks loose. I can't believe people actually subscribe to this blog! Congrats to Gofish, Rugby, Kerry, Danielle and others with good news today!
@YARebels: Some UK programs are rolling---I just got into the MA at Royal Holloway, University of London, for fiction, but I'm pretty sure they're still accepting applications. Funding is definitely the biggest barrier, I'm waiting to hear back from a few places here in the states and also considering taking a year to work.
Congrats UNCW acceptees! Woosh, that's my first school that's started reaching out and my heart is beating. I've spent a lot of time in Wilmington and it's one of my favorite places in the entire world. You'll be so motivated there.
In other, non-related news, as far as non-MFA distractions go, I can tell you NOT to include Sally Hanson's self-waxing kit on your to-do list.
I just have a question based on a post I saw somewhere a bit back (poster said "White committees love non white candidates".) Is there any truth to this? Do MFA programs try to have racially and ethnically diverse programs or is this just a myth?
Not trying to grind an ax here, I honestly don't know and am very curious about the way these things work. Thanks!
Bama waitlist AND an A w/honors on my lit comps! SHITTY DAY turned into AWESOME DAY really fast! Unfortunately... who turns down Bama? Oh, yeah, Fiction. I have yet to go to committee at Michener. I think they dropped my app behind a desk or something.
And massive congrats to the UNCW, Minnesota, UMass, Iowa people! And my fellow Bama waitlists!
Sarah, Let me know if you accept it, as I may also be in London, also at Royal Holloway- at the moment there is a letter waiting for me, but it's locked in my flatmates room and she is not back until Sunday! So annoying! But I have already been accepted for Glasgow and will prob go there, but Royal Holloway is BEAUtiful!
wow. so much good news, you guys. a huge congrats to everyone with acceptances and waitlist notifications since i last posted! i feel like a jerk for not naming names but who can compete with sam n.'s comprehensive list? :)
on another note, i've been oddly calm the last couple of days. the calm before the (shit)storm (of rejections)? i don't know.
congrats again, you guys. and pulling for the rest of us who have yet to post our own good news.
I think it's pretty safe to assume almost every admissions committee for anything nowadays is liable to have a member or two who are taking some affirmative action with applications. Not to say any particular school does this, but that it's not unreasonable to expect that some do.
@animalistic -- re. Diversity in MFA, check out the following threads in the P&W Speakeasy forum:
MFAs - Issues of Diversity Indiana University MFA!
Diversity is not as controversial as it used to be.
On the one hand: White people are smart; everyone (incl. non-Whites) have a shared common experience; should admit blindly on merit (the anti-Affirmative Action argument).
On the other hand: All Whites=limited groupthink; we live in global community; different cultural perspective enhances MFA education.
Patrick, will do! I actually haven't gotten my letter yet, I just found out through the portal site they sent me in the confirmation email when they got my application, so if you haven't yet check there. I'm anxiously awaiting the official letter, haha, it doesn't feel real yet.
It sounds gorgeous, and the writing classes are in Bloomsbury, which is the part of London I know best.
My sentence from above post -- "White people are smart" -- needs clarification. (I read it and thought, "Whoa! What was that about?") What I mean is, students, be they White or otherwise, are smart and don't necessarily need to be exposed to other cultures in an MFA program. They are already aware of them.
This is not necessarily my view. I'm just presenting the argument that has been made by others.
I think both sides are right. Admitting less talented or accomplished people to competitive programs based on their non-whiteness is a great way to fan the flames of ethnic resentment and to ghettoize the white experience. It's also a pretty useless way to try to create diversity. Socioeconomic affirmative action would make much more sense than ethnic affirmative action. I promise you that all the non-white kids I grew up with (in an affluent suburb) know about as much about their ethnicity as I do, while the white kids who grew up in the rougher parts of the area have some stories to tell that I definitely don't. But asking colleges to admit more poor people based on their poorness is sheer heresy. After all, colleges need to meet their budgets, too.
On the other hand, consider this in favor of affirmative action: if it weren't for affirmative action in undergraduate admissions, the entire University of California system would be something like 96 percent Asian American. And if you don't see something wrong with colleges becoming de facto segregated environments to that extreme degree, you're definitely missing the point.
I think, sometimes, the issue I have is that some White faculty members at some MFA programs are not "White enough" and some non-White faculty members are too White. I can't really tell the difference anymore. Know what I mean?
If we all live up to the stereotype that creative folks are promiscuous, the next generation won't even have to have this debate. We'll all be a nice, universal shade called international sienna (or pick your favorite Crayola color)
I would really like to take a bunch of flat-footed academics to some of the places I've lived (Youngstown, Ohio comes to mind) and have them try to tell the people living in those towns that they've had it easier than minorities, because they're white after all.
These people live hand to mouth in towns where the piles of scrap metal that have been taken from their former centers of employment are bigger than the actual buildings standing downtown. And when their great great grandparents got to the states and took backbreaking jobs, they weren't considered white (Hungarians, Polish, etc. were treated just like any other minority at that point). The idea that a white person born and raised in Youngstown has it worse than an ethnic minority born and raised in Manhattan is pretty laughable.
Hence why affirmative action, as long as its based on distinctions between us that only run skin-deep, will largely serve just to redefine those ethnic boundaries, not erase them or lessen their overall harmfulness.
LOL, Woon. What's the show gonna be about? Selling off all your family's gold jewelry to the pawn shop so you can buy groceries for another month? A competition to see who can build the most profitable strip club in the former public library downtown? Because that's about all that happens in that part of the country.
Did you guys know that most of the Ivies are now capping the # of Asian applicants they take? So, on average, Asian-American applicants have to have an SAT score 140 points higher, on average, than their whitey counterparts, a higher GPA by a few tenths of a point, etc? I read about this in THE WEEK magazine. I think the original column about it was in the LA Times? verrrry interesting...
Woon, I disagree with your that accepting based only on merit would result in "all white" courses. I don't think that you meant it that way, but that's pretty insulting to anybody who is non-white who is accepted into (or just applying to) a program.
LOL, Mila, I admit I own the book based on that website. And I like some of that stuff.
140 pts higher on the SAT? A few tenths of a point more for GPA? Pfft. The parents of my Asian-American younger brothers and sisters will just train them harder (Flash cards at infancy), make them even more well-rounded (Concert pianist in the junior orchestra? Not anymore! We're building a robot to play the piano and then destroy it in a maelstrom of performance art!).
I'm not surprised that Ivies (and probably other flagship campuses of public institutions) are capping Asian enrollment. That's what we get for being nerds I suppose : - )
Btw. I totally suck at math (You shouldn't copy my homework)
While I agree that economic diversity/class should be taken into account, there's a strong correlation between class and race to begin with. It's been noted that median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers are generally lower for blacks and hispanics than for whites and Asians.
But I know what you're saying - you're trying to point out the gray areas and specific instances in which people fall through the cracks. Race-based affirmative action system achieves its goal on a broad, big-picture scale, but though I think it's effective, I also think it could use more tweaking on the class/income end as well.
@Ashley Brooke -- there is nothing to agree or disagree wrt me. I was merely summarizing arguments that have been made before, not airing my own views on the matter. You can't, by definition, disagree with me.
Woon, Yes, I would have known this if I hadn't gotten lost in so many comments. ♠
Meredith, I WANT TO GO TO A SCHOOL SOMEWHERE NEAR A COLD MOUNTAIN SO THAT I CAN WORK ON MY SNOWBOARDING, OKAY? I am so enthusiastic about this that it got ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. But I agree that the guys are way better, but keep in mind that it's a relatively new sport and the halfpipe is brutal. So much has changed just since the last winter olympics that I suspect they can only get better.
I've never been to Wilmington and am freaking out a little bit about the two-week deadline. What makes the town feel so wonderful to you? Pictures make it look like your average beach town, but that's just from a quick Internet search. What don't I see, because I truly believe I am missing something.
Rugbytoy: I studied there last year, on a year abroad, and had the best year of my life! AMAZING! Downtown is amazing, subtle and beautiful. Nightlife is really good, I dont know if that applies to you, but it was a big factor for me, I love a good night out; it didn't disappoint! Uni itself is really nice, and the creative writing department are amazing. What genre you there for.? Karen Bender for ficton is the best, amazing. The beach is beautiful. The atmosphere is great. I loved it, relly did! I'm waiting to hear from UNCW, I'm jealous... MAJOR CONGRATS! GO ON YA GOOD THING!
the race thing is an easy fix: no one should have to reveal who he/she is when applying...we just pick names like LAswede, or kaybay, or phillywriter that have no bearing on who we really are, whether it be nationality or gender or Beck fans...whatever...then we can actually know we're being judged on merit and not some other nonsense.
RugbyToy, Don't be afraid to ask for more time to make a decision. If they say no, it would be okay to say yes to UNCW and then back out if you change your mind. They've signed the April 15th resolution (I'm pretty certain) and it is their obligation to stand by that. Otherwise, I've heard nothing but good things about the program.
@LASwede -- I like your idea. It's like blind taste testing in cooking contests. Except, they will need last names to fill out application forms. Dreux Chang tells me Dreux is Chinese. And, of course, I'm Woon McDougall. Go Irish! Woo Hoo!
If no last names are required, a name like LASwede reveals that you may be Swedish, which may not sit well with certain members of the faculty who don't like Scandinavians, for whatever reason. (I can't think of one) The blonde hair, for example, may be a source of jealousy.
A big huge congratulations to everyone who's gotten waitlisted or accepted.
I'm still with neither. The longer this goes on, the easier it is getting for me. I somehow got past the hurdle of fear and am just riding some sort of wave, perhaps a state of numbness.
I've seen a lot of comments on the subject of "it ain't over 'til it's over" and I agree. I wanted to share with you all a little tidbit that may or may not seem relevant to you. (It seems relevant to me.) I met with my portfolio adviser today. We talked about this whole MFA waiting game. She agreed that the fact that so many applicants have increased the number of schools that they have applied to has changed the game for the schools. This isn't just with MFA's. Undergraduate programs across the board are also seeing a huge increase in applicants, not because there are more people applying, but b/c people are applying to many more schools. The schools are having to adjust their strategies toward processing applications - but they haven't figured out how to do that yet.
I'm seeing a plausibility that even schools who have determined their acceptances and waitlisted may have to return to the heap of rejections. Not that I'm counting on getting in or being one of the lucky few who might get reconsidered after receiving a rejection notification.... I'm jes' sayin'... It really ain't over 'til it's over, as in, sign on the dotted line, matriculation.
At the same time, I'm trying to just keep a low key attitude and continue with my curent coursework, which I let fall by the wayside when I was so involved with this blog. I miss ya'll. Glad to check in every so often and see many of you are still here.
and a special note to kaybay - glad you're keeping you sense of humor. I wonder if you might add a recipe for fried okra to the MFA Cooking Collective?? (;
@Woon I'm finishing up a Certificate in Creative Writing. Portfolio is the final class - a one on one with my faculty adviser. It's the best thing, second to an MFA program I suppose.
i should've known you'd ask that, and i should be better prepared to answer. i guess, in short, it *is* an average beach town, and that's perhaps why i love it like i do. it's such a personal thing, to attach to your city. (i'm in new york right now, for nearly 9 years, and i love it. i do. but it's very love/hate for a beach-girl-at-heart such as myself.) i lived in raleigh for several years before moving here, and spent a lot of time driving back and forth to wilmington while my boyfriend got his mba. it's just a soft, easy place to be. i did a tremendous amount of writing there. because of the university and the town's growing popularity, there's a palpable culture and sophistication moving in, yet instead of taking over the "beach town" vibe it's meshing really magically. okay, i sound like i'm writing a horribly bad marketing brochure. it's just a place that i've always felt i would be really happy to return. i'll try to think of something more concrete and useful for you, i promise. ;)
in the meantime, i agree completely with ashley b. that you should ask them for the time you need before making the decision. they don't need to know before anyone else does. any chance you're somewhere you can pop down there and experience the town for yourself for a night or two?
As Kramer so famously said, pointing to his head, "Up here, I'm already gone." *funnybirdinflighthandsign*
In my mind, I've already moved on to Plan B. Kind of sad since I have only two (official) rejections. But Plan B ain't too bad, and this wine is mighty fine.
I have nothing to add to the discussion of race but to say that the implication that non-white students are admitted to programs simply to diversify a cohort is patronizing and insulting.
I'm not certain that's what anyone here MEANT to say, but at some times, that's how it's coming off, and that leaves a bad taste.
Where I got my undergrad, they have the "equal opportunity program" - their version of affirmative action - and it admitted deserving students from underrepresented socioeconomic and racial groups as well as underrepresented geographic areas of the US. None of these students were less intelligent or had less potential than their white/middle-class/otherwise privileged counterparts. I think this is the proper way to run so-called affirmative action.
It's a bitter pill to read some of these comments, and I sincerely hope no one meant to be insensitive.
Man, this is a tough thread to jump in on. But since Jasmine just posted, I'll start there. I wholeheartedly agree with what she said. The idea that diversity being taken into account would necessarily privilege non-white people who didn't deserve to get into a program is ridiculous. It's just one more lens to help make decisions, and it's never as cut and dry as saying that this non-white person over here who isn't talented or intelligent or deserving (seriously? did someone actually say that?) gets bumped up/accepted.
As far as the issue of poor whites vs. poor non-whites, dreux is right in that it isn't simply black and white. However, if we're speaking on the whole in generalities, poor whites in the US are going to be better off than poor non-whites. Class is a huge factor (see Where We Stand: Class Matters for more about this) but institutional racism and the prison industrial complex privileges even the worst off of white people.
And my apologies if people don't want to continue with this discussion. I just spent two years teaching American Studies and Community Studies classes to mostly privileged white UC students, some of whom think racism and Native Americans (and let's be honest, they've gotten the biggest shaft of all) don't exist anymore. OK. Getting off soap box now.
You shouldn't have to apologize for continuing a thread that has meaning to you just because it's going to make some people uncomfortable. We can go on for thousands of comments about our various neuroses, but not call people out on really problematic comments made about race, class, and intersections thereof?
Thanks for your comment. I will definitely check out Where We Stand: Class Matters.
As a teacher in a rural high school, I feel obligated to chime in on the socio-economic discussion. If we want to talk about under-represented groups in pretty much any system of higher education, take a peek at the rural poor. Rural areas are nearly always overlooked when searching for areas in need of aid or educational encouragement. I understand that urban centers have a higher concentration of poverty per square mile, but if you add up all the little pockets of utter economic despair in the rural parts of our country you get a HUGE collection of people who are extremely unlikely to ever improve their lot in life. I previously taught in a district that had urban students, and the most unfortunate cases that I have seen in my career are definitely the rural ones. Sorry to rant, but I really feel obligated to stick up for my students in the sticks - some of them have so much potential!
Great with all this deep talk I can't come in here and make a petty comment about Michigan or grad school apps or what have you. I see your plan to silence me and my cupcake chatter. I SEE IT.
Let's keep this focused on the MFA programs, people:
a) If I accept a spot in an MFA program, only to find that it resembles an early 20th-century Ivy League English Department in its demographics, I'm not going to be pleased. And I'm a white dude!
b) Even if a program checks its numbers every now and then to make sure it's maintaining a diverse student body, do you really think that means they have to DIG to the bottom of their pile for some non-white, queer, etc. writers? Or even the middle of their pile? Ensuring a little diversity does not somehow make the minority candidates mediocre.
So, instead of worrying tonight about where I'm going to go to school so that I can write I decided, for a change of pace, to actually do some writing. It definitely helped me work out some of the stress. Although I did end up beginning a short story about an admissions committee.
@Mostly_Swell Just seeing the words 'fried' and 'okra' together instantly made me salivate
I apologize for making the original comment that started this whole thing. Really, it was an offhanded remark that I knew would stir the pot a little, though I didn't expect people to feel insulted.
"to say that the implication that non-white students are admitted to programs simply to diversify a cohort is patronizing and insulting"
I think you're right, Jasmine, but it doesn't make it untrue. Though I don't know how much calculation goes into these kinds of decisions. Probably most of it is unconscious, in the form of tiny concessions, here and there. Speaking only of the MFA application process, I can see a committee member, perhaps many, attributing stylistic/craft choices within a manuscript, to cultural/ethnic background, even if they don't agree with them. It's not that a poor manuscript would be admitted for diversity's sake, but that a reader (white/non-white) of non-white manuscript may back away from certain things, or glorify them.
The Sun By: Thomas Jensen
The Sun: By Javier Zapata
I don't know if what I've said is true. But it's something I believe.
I don't think it's as big of a deal as people like to believe. I sincerely doubt schools are picking minorities over whites for the color of their skin. Maybe I'm naive, but I truly do believe admissions are based on the writing sample.
I do think, however, that with all things being equal the minority would probably win out. I also think with all things equal (same race, same writing proficiency), the Harvard grad would win out. With all things being equal, the person who has traveled the world would win out. Whether people think being a minority should be a slight edge is debatable. But ethnic lit has been a fairly hot commodity in the book world, so don't blame MFA programs, blame the average reader of lit fiction.
@Dreux
I agree with you that socioeconomics should be the main factor when it comes to affirmative action. Underrepresented races should also be included, but it should come second to socioeconomic background.
Re: Asians in academia
I fully agree that Asians should not be considered a minority when it comes to academics because they are overrepresented. However, placing a cap on their admissions is ridiculous. Who has ever heard of putting a cap on academic excellence? Does that not seem really odd to you guys? I fully believe that the disadvantaged should be elevated in order to give them a chance, but placing a cap on any race (including Caucasians) is flat out discrimination.
"Whether people think being a minority should be a slight edge is debatable. But ethnic lit has been a fairly hot commodity in the book world, so don't blame MFA programs, blame the average reader of lit fiction."
1,757 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 1757 Newer› Newest»mj: The last present he gave me was also a tracksuit. I think he's calling me fat? But I'm not! And, I mean, I run sometimes, but I'm not the sort of runner who needs multiple fancypants tracksuits. Haha. So weird.
@laura Maybe he has some sort of fancy-pants tracksuit hook-up so he can get them for cheap. Haha.
oh, and CONGRATS TO EVERYONE who's gotten accepted in the past few hours! Woo!
I know it sucks, Kara. To put things in perspective, I applied for two non-MFA year-long fundy/jobby things as plan Bs, both of which are pretty cool in their own right, and I found out this week I got both of them. Needless to say, this did nothing to calm my anxiety about the potential need to use them. I thought it would, but it didn't.
Waitlisted @ McNeese for Fiction via email!
Hi Everyone: I see on Driftless-House that Indiana had notified Fiction on 2/3. Has anyone heard a peep/whisper/word about Poetry?
Thanks! Good luck! Sending good vibes from chilly Ohio!
@Kate
I called Indiana yesterday, and they said that they'll be notifying in March, and will do it either via email or via mail (NOT depended on whether you get in or not, but rather what your offer is). Hope that helps! A little vague, but we can ease up a little bit on that tension for now.
@ WreckingLight
I find your words touching, really. This whole process is absolutely brutal. We've all had to stare down the barrel of our Plan Bs; had to ask ourselves if it really is worth all the heartache of rejection, the anxiety of waiting. Had to question whether or not we're actually any good.
This my first time applying full-scale, to a shit ton of programs, and the last few weeks have been absolutely terrifying. But I came to a point a few days ago, after reading one of Seth's generous posts, where I kind of made peace with the whole situation.
I went back to my sample. It's not perfect, and it won't win any awards anytime soon.. but I'm proud of it. I believe in what I'm doing, artistically, right now. And really, no admissions committee (or army of committees) can change that, or take that away from me.
Fortunately, it was only a couple days after I came to my revelation, that I got some good news. And then some more.
The majority of the people on this blog will get into programs, this year. Some won't, sadly. But the important thing isn't getting into programs; it's doing what you love and loving what you're doing. That's it.
Yes, this blog can be a bit much at times, for all of us, I'm sure. But it really is a kind of group therapy for us. And when one of us receives good news, we all cheer, because we're all in the same boat.
It sounds like more than most of us, myself certainly included, you deserve good things. And it's a relief to see that things can work out for you when you work hard, stay humble, and try to keep everything in perspective.
Big, big congrats.
A friend just mailed me a flask of huckleberry liqueur, from Idaho, to take the edge off waiting.
Do you guys think Iowa would post rejections on their ISIS site under applications?
@Vanni
They didn't do it yet for me, and I've officially gotten my rejection letter. So I don't know how on top of that they are. They might wait until the letters go out.
@Chrissy
OOOOO was it an email or a hard copy? AND WHEN DID YOU RECEIVE IT? I listed my home address as my perm address & since I'm 200+ miles away at school, I can't obsessively stalk my mailbox/mailman the way I do the blogs.
Thanks for the news, Chrissy. Now my poetry list reads thusly:
PRETEND I NEVER APPLIED
Illinois
Syracuse
Texas
STRESS OUT NOWWWWW
Cornell
Michigan
STRESS OUT LATER BUT ALSO NOWWWWW
Brown
Indiana
LSU
Southern Illinois
Oh how I wish I had time to properly reply to more of you! But I'm at work and really shouldn't be posting at all. Sending general positive vibes to all mfa bloggers.
But I do have to share my weird MFA anxiety dream from last night: I dreamed that I was at my first day of an MFA program, and a lot of you were there, too - unfortunately I can't remember everyone now, but Dreux was there, and so was KayBay. Dreux was like this slightly overweight man with unkempt facial hair and a bad haircut. Kaybay looked very neat and pretty, but not to an annoying degree or anything. We were all in this big art classroom, and the professor was telling us we had to paint. Everyone started to complain - after all, we were there for a WRITING MFA, not a painting MFA - and the professor told us in a very loud voice that it was really important that we take classes in different genres (evidently this meant painting). Dreux stood up and started loudly complaining, saying "I didn't come all this way to learn paint-by-numbers!" and Kaybay started worrying aloud that she hadn't sent a painting sample in with her application, and maybe the MFA program was going to kick her out when they saw her art skills. And then I started passing out chocolate cupcakes, all the while worrying because I knew I had forgotten to put eggs in them, and I wondered if anyone would be able to tell the difference.
.
.
.
Clearly this is a sign that Dreux and Kaybay were meant to be together, and that I had better not help out with that Plan B bakery after all.
Adam, most apt list headings EVER.
I'm 6'2"/162, and I have all my hair. I may act like a bitter, paunchy, balding old man, but I do not look like one!
Dreux,
LOL @ the real world. I haven't really been watching, but I knew Erika's boyfriend in high school, which makes the show really surreal. Reality shows are getting really bizarre overall. I feel like everybody knows somebody who has been on one. I think this makes 3 for me (two American Idol contestants, lol!)... what the hell? When it's my turn I'll be on The Amazing Race.
Laura,
Happy Birthday!
Courtney,
Congrats on McNeese!
A little off topic, but does anybody have an idea of when the U. of Iowa has historically sent out acceptances to its M.A. in Literary Studies program?
@Weun: GMWAS = Gag Me With A Spoon. :D
I don't really confuse you and @Droo, it's just that, between you, there were a bunch of posts on GNEs and treatises about the ethics of sharing said notifications that I got confuzzled. My fault, though, as I was breezing through a couple of hundred posts.
Breezing, @Droo...see what I did there? I think the heat is getting to me. :P
Cheers!
AB,
I knew a girl who was on that show where fashion designers compete with each other. The one on Bravo.
She actually made it to the final challenge and was named runner-up.
Time to go hit her up for some money, amirite?
@ Courtney - Big Congrats!! The movement has begun!
AHHH lol at megan's dream!
I almost skipped over it because it was long and I am antsy. I'm glad I stuck around. Paint by numbers made me laugh the most.
@ Vanni.
This year I combined one older university reference with two newer poetry references from two established poets, one of those a new reference for this year.
In previous years I had two university referees and one poetry referee.
Dreux, she said you had a "bad haircut," not that you were balding.
I'm betting that Megan is actually psychic and would be able to pick you and Kaybay out of a lineup.
I was watching the olympics last night---that shit is brutal! I thought getting rejections from MFA programs wash harsh until I saw the figure skaters and downhill skiers take some diggers. I mean, some of those people train forever then slip on the ice, or face plant onto it, or miss a gate, or blow their triple twist jump thingy. It's crazy to watch years of training and hope get obliterated in a only a second. Then, they have to wait another four years, hoping the whole time they don't get injured and actually make the team again. Talk about pressure. Those guys and gals have it much worse than us.
Dreux,
Ahh, Project Runway! I used to actually watch they before I started realizing it was kind of boring. Call her and tell her I want some clothessss.
Hmm...I know a contestant from Top Chef (the first season, I think), someone on that Dr. Drew rehab/sober living show and someone who competed on (but lost) Celebrity Apprentice.
I was on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire a few years ago, but, sadly didn't win the million dollar prize. If I had, I could have applied to some of the full-tuition MFA programs and had no competition. :D
Cheers!
Noono,
Oh, God, all I want to do is watch boys play on the half pipe. And when they fall I am willing to console them.
Noono,
Shattered dreams are the only reason people watch the winter olympics.
@Brad.
Thanks for your lovely response - I don't deserve an acceptance more than anyone else though. Maybe it was just my time.
@Dreux
Don't forget the shattered pelvises.
@WreckingLight
Ahhh, ergo, the necessity of making contacts. *sigh* But I like my cave, it's SO nice and dark here.
Thanks =D
Frankish,
I have a game show problem! I love them. I hope you win the million dollar MFA prize instead. AKA 9,000/year.
AB, Don't forget the speed skaters. They're in wicked good shape.
Congrats Courtney!
Wrecking,
I'm curious -- what about making contacts? I was of the understanding that nepotism is frowned upon in the MFA world and that admissions are pretty merit-based. Does your experience suggest otherwise?
@DREUX
I meant networking. I don't have anyone to write my recs for me other than professors.
@Noono
We writers may not risk life and limb in pursuit of our dreams, but at least most Olympic sports have some objective criteria by which to judge success. Even figure skating, which is very subjective, has a black-and-white definition of a triple lutz and a clear understanding of what defines a fall. Determining "great" writing from "decent" writing is almost entirely subjective, which is what makes this MFA application process all the more nervewracking. What one reader thinks is a fabulous story might barely get the attention of an adcom at another school. Which is why getting rejected from 10 MFA programs is not necessarily predictive of whether you'll get accepted to Iowa. In short, it sucks.
Dreux, I also tune in to see people succeed. That's the crazy thing about it. Every event there are big losers and big winners. I think it's amazing to watch--and the best distraction I've found so far.
Oh, I get it. Networking in order to get recs from folks who have experience with literary writing. Understood.
My recs came from two college creative writing profs and one guy I'd done workshops with at conferences multiple times.
All 3 were solid. The profs were a poet laureate and a Boston Globe book critic, respectively, and the non-prof is a multiple award winner (PEN shortlist, New York Times notable, blah blah). All 3 know me very well and I'm sure wrote good recs. I may feel pretty shaky about the quality of some of my SOPs, but I'm sure my recs stand up to the best of 'em.
@Kate & Chrissy
The Indiana situation makes sense. They lost a faculty member recently, so I imagine it will take time. See their program's page for details.
Just got waitlisted at Minnesota! I'm pumped.
Finally got moved from the Michener limbo into committee. Jamie, we are now in the same boat!
I also received a mysterious phone call with no one on the other line from Quebec. I currently have a deep hatred for Quebec now. WHY would someone from Quebec call me? WHY?
augh, I thought I was doing so well but no I am miserable.
AND epic congrats to everyone who got good news today! YAY!
Phillywriter, that's true. Subjectivity is a bitch. I've read plenty of stories and novels that I thought sucked, but that won certain awards and critical praise. But subjectivity also provides many different markets, and different ears---maybe one person thinks you suck, but a dozen more might think you're amazing. It's the subjectivity that gives each of us a chance.
@ Dreux / Vanni,
I got to know these poets through a program I got into (after pleading) but couldn't afford - I then attended that school's Summer workshop (across an ocean) and got references, patiently, over two years.
Meanwhile, I was working with my local council of the arts to explore residencies they provided, and taught through those and really concentrated on learning the craft (I attached myself to a few dead poets, not literally mind((!)), and discovered how they matured - really worthwhile to do), pitched my own book to myself, did research, took on responsibilities, did more research, got rejected again here and there, was ignored by some poets I loved, got accepted to a famous residency, and started to hit the slipstream to my mature voice, I think, just on time, at 26. This period culminated by taking on a position as a poet-in-residence in a European country for a month, and fighting for the work of the poets I met there through workshops that sometimes went well and sometimes didn't.
It's just patience, and the great great great thing about poetry is that the sense of accretion, if you concentrate enough, is so strong, and you carry your poetic history with you - that's why I write it.
Andrew, are you fiction or poetry? Did Minnesota call you or e-mail you?
Trying to keep hope alive...
Michigan, come out come out wherever you are...
If a program ever does call, what kinds of questions should I ask?
For those of you admitted, how have the conversations gone?
@phillywriter
I'm in fiction. Got an email.
@Andrew
Congrats! I wonder if that means they've called all their fiction acceptances already, or if they instead e-mail some of the waitlists before they've finished accepting everyone....
Another one probably bites the dust.
One fiction writer reporting an acceptance from Amherst. Given the response-rate on this blog from other schools, I'd guess several pending decisions remain. Keep up the hope you guys!
Thanks, phillywriter.
I'm not sure what the story with acceptances is, but if I find out, I'll be sure to let you know. Best of luck!
Anybody read Ben Fountain's Brief Encounter's With Che Guevara? I really like the first story in that collection.
@Coughdrop et al
Well keep me updated on what happens to your Michener status-I'm still in limbo.
@noono
Yeah, I picked that up after reading about him in Malcom Gladwell's latest book. That story was wonderful.
I was halfway through the collection when the earthquake in Haiti happened (A majority of the stories take place there). It was kind of surreal to read about how forgotten that place was, then to suddenly see it all over the news.
UT, Vandy, Amherst, and michigan... cricket. cricket. bueller? bueller?
I'm still hopeful about Amherst and Michigan, but I do wish vandy and UT would go ahead and give me a rejection so i can adequately drown my sorrows in chocolate and vodka (chocolate vodka? it's an option).
UT, Vandy, Amherst, and michigan... cricket. cricket. bueller? bueller?
I'm still hopeful about Amherst and Michigan, but I do wish vandy and UT would go ahead and give me a rejection so i can adequately drown my sorrows in chocolate and vodka (chocolate vodka? it's an option).
An Alabama fiction waitlist via e-mail was just posted to DH ("TSE" had a better ring to it).
I keep thinking my e-mail must not be working...but then I get a bunch of spam and my heart breaks all over again.
I just got an email that i'm on the Alabama fiction waitlist. Oh wow. Cautiously ecstatic, if that's possible.
I thought Alabama was done, and i was really mourning that one. Now i really will believe all those people who keep telling us-- baby, it ain't over til it's ooooverrrr.
SamStod, yeah, Gladwell's essay was what brought Fountain to my attention. I love the way he tells his stories, the voice is amazing--love the dark humor. Gladwell's essay also rocked.
more distraction? good read:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2010/01/29/notes012910.DTL
Congrats, Wee Meathead. Sorry if I stole your thunder a little bit by announcing your waitlist before you did.
I'm going back to mourning now, even though we keep receiving evidence that it isn't over until it's over.
ok by me, philly. YOU GOTTA BELIEVE.
Congratulations Rose! (...and I don't even know you)
Minnesota has a great program. Sometimes, I think I want to get into Minnesota just so that I too could write a funny paragraph about myself for my MFA students bio page.
Congrats to...
Rose, Courtney, Andrew, Wee Meathead!
And now I have Lenny Kravitz stuck in my head: "So many tears we've cried, so much pain insiiide, but baby it ain't over til it's ooover..."
Megan, your dream actually made me laugh OUT LOUD. That was hilarious! Even more priceless was Dreux's reaction. I am not bald! I am not fat, I say! I never! Ah, classic...
And you really must be psychic because I am pretty in a non-annoying way :P jk.
Congrats all acceptancees and wailtlistees! My beloved Courtney, CONGRATS! No news for me, just sitting here in limbo land, which ironically feels more like hell. I want some acceptance heaven!! Or even a waitlist "heaven" :( I just want something positive...
A song for all of us in committee for Michener:
I'm just a applicant, yes I'm only an applicant and I'm sittin here on Baked Goods hill Well its a long long journey to Austin City, its a long long wait while I'm sitting in committee But someday I hope to have an MFA at least I hope and I pray that I will but until then I'm still just an applicant...
and yes, I have been waiting until I was in committee just to sing that!
Congrats to everyone with YES's or WL.
*sniff* I'll just be over here, cuddling my lonely Rejection and waiting for more.
YARebels, I'm dying today. It's the longest day ever. I just want to hear something!! Come on UMass! Come on Michigan!
@YARebels
My rejections aren't cuddly, nor are they lonely - since there's three of them. Ugh.
I just got a call from UNC-Wilmington (they were one of my GNE's) for poetry. TA-ship funding. Yay. Yay. Yay.
They're sort of known for this, but they'd *like* a response within 2 weeks, as funding offers tend to have time constraints.
*sweaty*
Good luck everybody. I mean that :)
Preemptive congrats for RugbyToy!!
@Chrissy Ditto. DITTO.
Yay, RugbyToy!
Well, not preemptive anymore. I saw your post on DH in my email inbox and figured you'd be posting here, hence the "preemptive" haha. CONGRATS, YO!
@phillywriter I cuddle in in hopes of leach some small comfort from it. But it shows me none. NO LOVE.
Rugby, tehe :P
CONGRATS RugbyToy!
Congrats to everyone who's heard good news today!
And congrats to me for surviving this long with some semblance of fingernails left on my fingers. I don't know how much longer that will last, though. This shit's getting intense!
Congrats, RugbyToy! Wilmington, NC is the hometown of Michael Jordan, in case you didn't know. I drove by there once and thought, "Gee, this is the hometown of Michael Jordan."
Congratulations, RugbyToy!!
Oooo. The UNC floodgates begin to open!
Congrats, Rugby! As a fellow GNE holder, I can only hope your fate awaits me.
Is "RugbyToy" pronounced ROO-bee-TWAH? I'm hoping it is.
OH! GAH! I forgot to share my email from UF (not a GNE, don't worry). She did confirm my materials (whew) and also said that they will begin notifying in "early March." So, it looks like they'll be notifying around the same time as last year. I hate waiting.
Congrats Rugby on UNCW! Great news!
RugbyToy, Congratulations! Especially on the funding, which is very exciting. It SUCKS that they are going to pressure you for a decision, though.
Dear UNCW - fiction time!?!?!?!
Re: Rugby's UNCW Poetry Acceptance
... I wonder if this means fiction notifications are following shortly?
p.s. congrats!
CONGRATULATIONS RugbyToy!
Congrats RugbyToy! See, you got it.
@ Amanda: Timely.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/g/a/2010/01/29/notes012910.DTL
Anyone here have UNCW as one of their top choices, or a first choice? Is it largely the prose folks?
@Rugby,
Me.
@ Rugbytoy
UNCW's up there on my list. (I'm a fiction kid)
Courtney, congrats on the McNeese waitlist! Aren't you the first person I swapped samples with? We met under different names at the Speakeasy boards. If so, I'm rooting for you.
Also a shout out to these people for acceptances and waitlists in this mailbag:
RugbyToy for UNC
DigaPony for Northwestern.
KerryHeadley for George Mason
Rose for Minnesota and Wyoming wl.
BradSmith for Wyoming wl, Colorado, UMass
Goldenafternoon for UMass
GoFish for Iowa
WreckingLight for Iowa
Andrew for Minnesota wl
WeeMeathead for Alabama wl
Amanda for Syracuse wl, Vanderbilt wl
Vanni for Syracuse wl
Alexander for Syracuse wl
YellowLux for George Mason
Nick McRae for Vanderbilt wl
EPAC for Northwestern
MRM for Arizona State
Dryleaves for Wyoming wl
Mountainking for Syracuse wl
Sud for Carlow
Kate for UMass
Lipsha for George Mason
DanielleWheeler for UMass
Jojee for CSU
Astrid for UC Riverside
Evidently I have too much time on my hands. Sorry if I missed anyone.
You forgot Brandi @ Alabama!! So jealous ;)
I'm not going to lie, that list of acceptances/waitlists made me feel like I got punched in the stomach, lol
Ditto Sam N. Way to go everyone! And way to go Sam for remembering everyone - no small feat.
Oh, I think you were just doing RECENT acceptances. Sorry :)
Sam! Yes, you were the first person I swapped samples with! I was so proud when you got the Cornell nod. Thanks buddy!!
@Peaquah
Remember everyone? Oh, no. Definitely not.
Ctrl + F "Congrat"
@Kaybay
Yeah, I think everyone else I've congratulated by name in previous mailbags. Including Brandi whom I emailed.
Also got a call from UNCW (for poetry) but unfortunately I'm at work (in a silent lab), so I had to let it go to voicemail. Very friendly and warm message and it definitely seems like they are just starting the notification process, so, nobody panic! Hold fast :)
DANIELLE,
can i get some of yr FIRE?!?!
Thanks, Courtney.
@Morgan:: Girl, I've read your sample; you don't need none O' my fire!!
But seriously, this shit is crazy. After two years of straight up rejection, it feels amazing. Never give up, y'all!
Congrats, all!
UNCW is a great program (and a cool location).
Cheers!
Congrats, Danielle on UNCW! Is this your second or third MFA attempt? If so, that's a great story.
Technically, this is my third year, but last year I only applied to Iowa as they will renew your application materials (except the sample) from the previous year, if you ask them to. My first year I applied straight out of undergrad to four schools and got totally rejected.
and, thanks/Congrats to all that I have missed. It is hard to keep up with this place!
Does anyone know if Iowa or UNCW have started letting people know about fiction! Ugh I feel sick!
Congrats to EVERYONE who has been accepted or waitlisted; amazing news!
I'm pretty sure Iowa hasn't notified for fiction. That's all I know.
Hey guys,
Any UK programs whose deadlines haven't passed?
Can you tell I'm getting a little anxious?
All right, Danielle Wheeler!
I have a friend who lived in North Carolina for several years and absolutely loved it. I hope all of you who end up there love it too.
YaRebels, I'm not sure about the UK ones, I think maybe you might have a shot with Edunburgh, really good uni here, but I'm not sure! and Maybe Trinity college in Dublin, because I think the application closes in March for their creative writing program!
I know Glasgow have notified, and Oxford deadline is already gone!
Good luck, I'm sure you will be fine, just stressed yeah? I'm the same, wish I had applied for more in the States now! :( Oh well!
Also any other Columbia applicants not get their tracking number yet? I still haven't gotten one :\
Thanks, Patrick! Yeah, just getting a bit nervous!!
Any poets hear from UMass today? I know we had a couple of Fiction acceptances, and some "unofficial" offers to poets yesterday, just wondering if anyone heard today.
Hey congrats RugbyToy!
And the same to everyone else accepted and on waitlists! What a big day!
@YARebels - Did you request a tracking number? You may already know this, but you have to ask them for one.
Good luck!
@Frankish I did request one! On Saturday. It was my second request, the first one went ignored :\ And yet I got every single FAFSA email they sent lol.
Oxford has a second deadline in March - it carries less of a chance because spaces may already be filled - at £25 it's worth a shot...probably.
A couple of good tutors there - world-class facilities, great name, great experience, but still only a part-time course, so you may be looked down on (as is the Oxford way), and you'd be paying big money as an American student (they take lots of Americans).
I'd recommend Ireland at either Queen's in Belfast, or Trinity in Dublin - in many respects, with the (particularly Northern) Irish poetic heritage in the last 40 years, there's a case to be made to say that there's no better place in the world to learn.
East Anglia in England has a decent reputation too.
Not sure on the deadlines bar Oxford.
Yeah, WreckingLight is right! The program at Trinity is supposed to be really good, adn the college is beautiful, but I'm not sure what the fees would be for internationals, but as WL said, defo worth a shot. Good Luck, let me know if you apply for Trinity or Oxford!
Thanks, WreckingLight! I'm looking at Dublin. Don't know how financially appealing it would be, but the deadline is March 1st.
@YARebels
Dublin is an expensive city to live in, and a city I actually don't particularly like, but Trinity has a good reputation, and you'd have to investigate whether they give scholarships for gifted international students (I don't think they do, at least internally from the College itself, from my quick glance).
I can't vouch for the quality, by the way - as a 1-year course it could be very difficult, in my estimation, to meaningfully deal with a project. However, an e-mail to the course director, asking about how they'd structure your learning, and a base figure for international costs, would give you a better idea than I could.
Hey all. Congrats on all the acceptances today.
Received a call from UNCW earlier today--In for CNF! :) Yay.
Still waiting on funding info.
Keep your heads up.
@Rugby and Daniel Wheeler--way to go on UNCW! Awesome news...I graduated from their bfa program in Dec of 2008; good people, good times. Though I write CNF, Lavonne Adams and Mark Cox (his poetry is one of my favorite of the contemporaries) were my teachers for a couple workshops and forms courses, and have nothing but good things to say about them. Stand-up people at UNCW. And yes, the location is about perfect for me.
@Rugby, to answer your question, they are certainly one of my top picks, other than a couple--depending on those schools' funding--they are my top pick. Only program that I'm strongly leaning towards going to even if no funding was offered. Oh man, now I gotta sweat it out a bit now though...
Cheers!
@Abbie, way to go! excellent! I hope--if you end up going there--to meet you this summer near the beach...ahhh, nervous time
Jeeze, I leave to go to the doctor and all hell breaks loose. I can't believe people actually subscribe to this blog! Congrats to Gofish, Rugby, Kerry, Danielle and others with good news today!
Congrats, Abbie and Danielle!
@YARebels: Some UK programs are rolling---I just got into the MA at Royal Holloway, University of London, for fiction, but I'm pretty sure they're still accepting applications. Funding is definitely the biggest barrier, I'm waiting to hear back from a few places here in the states and also considering taking a year to work.
Sarah, well done! Royal Holloway is meant to be really good, and is quite hard to get in to!
Congrats!
YARebels--it took Columbia about a week to get back to me with a tracking number.
Btw, last I heard they were still in the middle of reading samples and were a far way off from notifying anyone.
Hobo Bobo (that's fun to type),
Thanks for the insight! I know they're a ways out, just wanted to have it :p
Congrats UNCW acceptees! Woosh, that's my first school that's started reaching out and my heart is beating. I've spent a lot of time in Wilmington and it's one of my favorite places in the entire world. You'll be so motivated there.
In other, non-related news, as far as non-MFA distractions go, I can tell you NOT to include Sally Hanson's self-waxing kit on your to-do list.
hey everyone,
I just have a question based on a post I saw somewhere a bit back (poster said "White committees love non white candidates".) Is there any truth to this? Do MFA programs try to have racially and ethnically diverse programs or is this just a myth?
Not trying to grind an ax here, I honestly don't know and am very curious about the way these things work. Thanks!
Tks guys. I'm excited! And still pulling for everyone, of course.
Way to go Abbie!
Kiyaaaaa!
Bama waitlist AND an A w/honors on my lit comps! SHITTY DAY turned into AWESOME DAY really fast! Unfortunately... who turns down Bama? Oh, yeah, Fiction. I have yet to go to committee at Michener. I think they dropped my app behind a desk or something.
And massive congrats to the UNCW, Minnesota, UMass, Iowa people! And my fellow Bama waitlists!
@Patrick
Thanks! I'm pretty excited, I would love to be writing in London next year.
Congrats to everyone who has had good news today and this week, and crossed fingers for all the good news that's still coming!
@ Spencer:
You're in Seoul, too? The application process was a little hellish, I'll agree. Where abouts to do you work?
Sarah, Let me know if you accept it, as I may also be in London, also at Royal Holloway- at the moment there is a letter waiting for me, but it's locked in my flatmates room and she is not back until Sunday! So annoying! But I have already been accepted for Glasgow and will prob go there, but Royal Holloway is BEAUtiful!
wow. so much good news, you guys. a huge congrats to everyone with acceptances and waitlist notifications since i last posted! i feel like a jerk for not naming names but who can compete with sam n.'s comprehensive list? :)
on another note, i've been oddly calm the last couple of days. the calm before the (shit)storm (of rejections)? i don't know.
congrats again, you guys. and pulling for the rest of us who have yet to post our own good news.
Animalistic,
I think it's pretty safe to assume almost every admissions committee for anything nowadays is liable to have a member or two who are taking some affirmative action with applications. Not to say any particular school does this, but that it's not unreasonable to expect that some do.
Can I just say that it's nice to know I'm not alone in my misery as I wait for rejection / acceptance / any news of any kind.
I'm freaking out a little bit, but I have to just keep telling myself serenity now...serenity now...
And, by the way, congrats to all the peeps getting good news!
@animalistic -- re. Diversity in MFA, check out the following threads in the P&W Speakeasy forum:
MFAs - Issues of Diversity
Indiana University MFA!
Diversity is not as controversial as it used to be.
On the one hand: White people are smart; everyone (incl. non-Whites) have a shared common experience; should admit blindly on merit (the anti-Affirmative Action argument).
On the other hand: All Whites=limited groupthink; we live in global community; different cultural perspective enhances MFA education.
Patrick, will do! I actually haven't gotten my letter yet, I just found out through the portal site they sent me in the confirmation email when they got my application, so if you haven't yet check there. I'm anxiously awaiting the official letter, haha, it doesn't feel real yet.
It sounds gorgeous, and the writing classes are in Bloomsbury, which is the part of London I know best.
My sentence from above post -- "White people are smart" -- needs clarification. (I read it and thought, "Whoa! What was that about?") What I mean is, students, be they White or otherwise, are smart and don't necessarily need to be exposed to other cultures in an MFA program. They are already aware of them.
This is not necessarily my view. I'm just presenting the argument that has been made by others.
I think both sides are right. Admitting less talented or accomplished people to competitive programs based on their non-whiteness is a great way to fan the flames of ethnic resentment and to ghettoize the white experience. It's also a pretty useless way to try to create diversity. Socioeconomic affirmative action would make much more sense than ethnic affirmative action. I promise you that all the non-white kids I grew up with (in an affluent suburb) know about as much about their ethnicity as I do, while the white kids who grew up in the rougher parts of the area have some stories to tell that I definitely don't. But asking colleges to admit more poor people based on their poorness is sheer heresy. After all, colleges need to meet their budgets, too.
On the other hand, consider this in favor of affirmative action: if it weren't for affirmative action in undergraduate admissions, the entire University of California system would be something like 96 percent Asian American. And if you don't see something wrong with colleges becoming de facto segregated environments to that extreme degree, you're definitely missing the point.
Speaking of white people...
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/
DISTRACT.
@Mila -- that's funny stuff!
I think, sometimes, the issue I have is that some White faculty members at some MFA programs are not "White enough" and some non-White faculty members are too White. I can't really tell the difference anymore. Know what I mean?
Perhaps that's a good thing. I'm not sure.
@ Mila,
That site CRACKS me up. I never realized I was such a cliche! Hilarious business, that.
I think I'd kill to see Alice Munro breakdance.
man, stuffwhitepeoplelike was so much better before the author/creator dude got a book deal/sold out. or maybe I'm just old and crotchety.
alice munro is too busy being canadian at the olympics right now.
Woon,
If we all live up to the stereotype that creative folks are promiscuous, the next generation won't even have to have this debate. We'll all be a nice, universal shade called international sienna (or pick your favorite Crayola color)
I would really like to take a bunch of flat-footed academics to some of the places I've lived (Youngstown, Ohio comes to mind) and have them try to tell the people living in those towns that they've had it easier than minorities, because they're white after all.
These people live hand to mouth in towns where the piles of scrap metal that have been taken from their former centers of employment are bigger than the actual buildings standing downtown. And when their great great grandparents got to the states and took backbreaking jobs, they weren't considered white (Hungarians, Polish, etc. were treated just like any other minority at that point). The idea that a white person born and raised in Youngstown has it worse than an ethnic minority born and raised in Manhattan is pretty laughable.
Hence why affirmative action, as long as its based on distinctions between us that only run skin-deep, will largely serve just to redefine those ethnic boundaries, not erase them or lessen their overall harmfulness.
Those folks from Y'town, Ohio will be fine. Reality show talent scouts/agents seek them out in droves.
LOL, Woon. What's the show gonna be about? Selling off all your family's gold jewelry to the pawn shop so you can buy groceries for another month? A competition to see who can build the most profitable strip club in the former public library downtown? Because that's about all that happens in that part of the country.
So far, this seems to be my status for MFA - Poetry this year:
Michener - Out
Cornell - Assumed Rejection
Vanderbilt - Assumed Rejection
Iowa - ?
UMass - ?
UVA - ?
Perhaps there still hope...?
Did you guys know that most of the Ivies are now capping the # of Asian applicants they take? So, on average, Asian-American applicants have to have an SAT score 140 points higher, on average, than their whitey counterparts, a higher GPA by a few tenths of a point, etc? I read about this in THE WEEK magazine. I think the original column about it was in the LA Times? verrrry interesting...
Woon,
I disagree with your that accepting based only on merit would result in "all white" courses. I don't think that you meant it that way, but that's pretty insulting to anybody who is non-white who is accepted into (or just applying to) a program.
LOL, Mila, I admit I own the book based on that website. And I like some of that stuff.
Meredith,
Doesn't surprise me.
I think the only good answer to our racial problem is this one:
In the future, let's try not to enslave people, or put them in internment camps. That usually creates problems down the road.
140 pts higher on the SAT? A few tenths of a point more for GPA? Pfft. The parents of my Asian-American younger brothers and sisters will just train them harder (Flash cards at infancy), make them even more well-rounded (Concert pianist in the junior orchestra? Not anymore! We're building a robot to play the piano and then destroy it in a maelstrom of performance art!).
I'm not surprised that Ivies (and probably other flagship campuses of public institutions) are capping Asian enrollment. That's what we get for being nerds I suppose : - )
Btw. I totally suck at math (You shouldn't copy my homework)
Now that we've touched on racism and classism, onto sexism, Olympic-style:
The girl snowboarders are so much lamer than the guys. They go, literally, about a 1/3 as high, if that! It's actually really bumming me out.
Yeah, but girl rock-climbers > than guy rock-climbers. By a lot.
dreux -
While I agree that economic diversity/class should be taken into account, there's a strong correlation between class and race to begin with. It's been noted that median weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers are generally lower for blacks and hispanics than for whites and Asians.
But I know what you're saying - you're trying to point out the gray areas and specific instances in which people fall through the cracks. Race-based affirmative action system achieves its goal on a broad, big-picture scale, but though I think it's effective, I also think it could use more tweaking on the class/income end as well.
@Ashley Brooke -- there is nothing to agree or disagree wrt me. I was merely summarizing arguments that have been made before, not airing my own views on the matter. You can't, by definition, disagree with me.
Off- Topic:
Songs for distraction:
Florence and the Machine- Drumming Song
Mumford & Sons- Little Lion Man
They do a good job of making me forget about those 3 letters- M to the bastardly FA
Off- Topic:
Songs for distraction:
Florence and the Machine- Drumming Song
Mumford & Sons- Little Lion Man
They do a good job of making me forget about those 3 letters- M to the bastardly FA
Woon,
Yes, I would have known this if I hadn't gotten lost in so many comments. ♠
Meredith,
I WANT TO GO TO A SCHOOL SOMEWHERE NEAR A COLD MOUNTAIN SO THAT I CAN WORK ON MY SNOWBOARDING, OKAY? I am so enthusiastic about this that it got ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. But I agree that the guys are way better, but keep in mind that it's a relatively new sport and the halfpipe is brutal. So much has changed just since the last winter olympics that I suspect they can only get better.
jessicastone and others:
I've never been to Wilmington and am freaking out a little bit about the two-week deadline. What makes the town feel so wonderful to you? Pictures make it look like your average beach town, but that's just from a quick Internet search. What don't I see, because I truly believe I am missing something.
Rugbytoy: I studied there last year, on a year abroad, and had the best year of my life! AMAZING! Downtown is amazing, subtle and beautiful. Nightlife is really good, I dont know if that applies to you, but it was a big factor for me, I love a good night out; it didn't disappoint! Uni itself is really nice, and the creative writing department are amazing. What genre you there for.? Karen Bender for ficton is the best, amazing. The beach is beautiful. The atmosphere is great. I loved it, relly did! I'm waiting to hear from UNCW, I'm jealous... MAJOR CONGRATS! GO ON YA GOOD THING!
the race thing is an easy fix: no one should have to reveal who he/she is when applying...we just pick names like LAswede, or kaybay, or phillywriter that have no bearing on who we really are, whether it be nationality or gender or Beck fans...whatever...then we can actually know we're being judged on merit and not some other nonsense.
RugbyToy,
Don't be afraid to ask for more time to make a decision. If they say no, it would be okay to say yes to UNCW and then back out if you change your mind. They've signed the April 15th resolution (I'm pretty certain) and it is their obligation to stand by that. Otherwise, I've heard nothing but good things about the program.
@LASwede -- I like your idea. It's like blind taste testing in cooking contests. Except, they will need last names to fill out application forms. Dreux Chang tells me Dreux is Chinese. And, of course, I'm Woon McDougall. Go Irish! Woo Hoo!
If no last names are required, a name like LASwede reveals that you may be Swedish, which may not sit well with certain members of the faculty who don't like Scandinavians, for whatever reason. (I can't think of one) The blonde hair, for example, may be a source of jealousy.
Hi all.
A big huge congratulations to everyone who's gotten waitlisted or accepted.
I'm still with neither. The longer this goes on, the easier it is getting for me. I somehow got past the hurdle of fear and am just riding some sort of wave, perhaps a state of numbness.
I've seen a lot of comments on the subject of "it ain't over 'til it's over" and I agree. I wanted to share with you all a little tidbit that may or may not seem relevant to you. (It seems relevant to me.) I met with my portfolio adviser today. We talked about this whole MFA waiting game. She agreed that the fact that so many applicants have increased the number of schools that they have applied to has changed the game for the schools. This isn't just with MFA's. Undergraduate programs across the board are also seeing a huge increase in applicants, not because there are more people applying, but b/c people are applying to many more schools. The schools are having to adjust their strategies toward processing applications - but they haven't figured out how to do that yet.
I'm seeing a plausibility that even schools who have determined their acceptances and waitlisted may have to return to the heap of rejections. Not that I'm counting on getting in or being one of the lucky few who might get reconsidered after receiving a rejection notification.... I'm jes' sayin'... It really ain't over 'til it's over, as in, sign on the dotted line, matriculation.
At the same time, I'm trying to just keep a low key attitude and continue with my curent coursework, which I let fall by the wayside when I was so involved with this blog. I miss ya'll. Glad to check in every so often and see many of you are still here.
and a special note to kaybay - glad you're keeping you sense of humor. I wonder if you might add a recipe for fried okra to the MFA Cooking Collective?? (;
geez, I disappear for two weeks, then come back with a single post that is a mile long. oh well. I obviously miss you!!!!
cheers
@Mostly Swell -- portfolio advisor? What's that? I don't have one. Well, I guess I'm my own portfolio advisor.
@Woon
I'm finishing up a Certificate in Creative Writing. Portfolio is the final class - a one on one with my faculty adviser. It's the best thing, second to an MFA program I suppose.
advisor, not adviser - my spellcheck tells me that's incorrect - but you're right, I'm sure
@Down the rabbit hole
I live in Banghwa dong but work in Sinwol 3 dong. Where in the city are you? What kind of work are you doing?
*Gangseo-gu/Yangcheon-gu, respectively
@rugbytoy re: wilmington
i should've known you'd ask that, and i should be better prepared to answer.
i guess, in short, it *is* an average beach town, and that's perhaps why i love it like i do. it's such a personal thing, to attach to your city. (i'm in new york right now, for nearly 9 years, and i love it. i do. but it's very love/hate for a beach-girl-at-heart such as myself.)
i lived in raleigh for several years before moving here, and spent a lot of time driving back and forth to wilmington while my boyfriend got his mba. it's just a soft, easy place to be. i did a tremendous amount of writing there. because of the university and the town's growing popularity, there's a palpable culture and sophistication moving in, yet instead of taking over the "beach town" vibe it's meshing really magically.
okay, i sound like i'm writing a horribly bad marketing brochure. it's just a place that i've always felt i would be really happy to return. i'll try to think of something more concrete and useful for you, i promise. ;)
in the meantime, i agree completely with ashley b. that you should ask them for the time you need before making the decision. they don't need to know before anyone else does. any chance you're somewhere you can pop down there and experience the town for yourself for a night or two?
very true...never mind my blue eyes and auburn hair...i'm a pigeonholed blond haired nordic powerlifter...damn!
As Kramer so famously said, pointing to his head, "Up here, I'm already gone." *funnybirdinflighthandsign*
In my mind, I've already moved on to Plan B. Kind of sad since I have only two (official) rejections. But Plan B ain't too bad, and this wine is mighty fine.
Cheers!
Congrats to the latest horde of acceptees and waitlisters. What a wild Thursday. And it's still only February!
I'm in ... *sigh* Kansas.
I have nothing to add to the discussion of race but to say that the implication that non-white students are admitted to programs simply to diversify a cohort is patronizing and insulting.
I'm not certain that's what anyone here MEANT to say, but at some times, that's how it's coming off, and that leaves a bad taste.
Where I got my undergrad, they have the "equal opportunity program" - their version of affirmative action - and it admitted deserving students from underrepresented socioeconomic and racial groups as well as underrepresented geographic areas of the US. None of these students were less intelligent or had less potential than their white/middle-class/otherwise privileged counterparts. I think this is the proper way to run so-called affirmative action.
It's a bitter pill to read some of these comments, and I sincerely hope no one meant to be insensitive.
Man, this is a tough thread to jump in on. But since Jasmine just posted, I'll start there. I wholeheartedly agree with what she said. The idea that diversity being taken into account would necessarily privilege non-white people who didn't deserve to get into a program is ridiculous. It's just one more lens to help make decisions, and it's never as cut and dry as saying that this non-white person over here who isn't talented or intelligent or deserving (seriously? did someone actually say that?) gets bumped up/accepted.
As far as the issue of poor whites vs. poor non-whites, dreux is right in that it isn't simply black and white. However, if we're speaking on the whole in generalities, poor whites in the US are going to be better off than poor non-whites. Class is a huge factor (see Where We Stand: Class Matters for more about this) but institutional racism and the prison industrial complex privileges even the worst off of white people.
And my apologies if people don't want to continue with this discussion. I just spent two years teaching American Studies and Community Studies classes to mostly privileged white UC students, some of whom think racism and Native Americans (and let's be honest, they've gotten the biggest shaft of all) don't exist anymore. OK. Getting off soap box now.
amanda
You shouldn't have to apologize for continuing a thread that has meaning to you just because it's going to make some people uncomfortable. We can go on for thousands of comments about our various neuroses, but not call people out on really problematic comments made about race, class, and intersections thereof?
Thanks for your comment. I will definitely check out Where We Stand: Class Matters.
As a teacher in a rural high school, I feel obligated to chime in on the socio-economic discussion. If we want to talk about under-represented groups in pretty much any system of higher education, take a peek at the rural poor. Rural areas are nearly always overlooked when searching for areas in need of aid or educational encouragement. I understand that urban centers have a higher concentration of poverty per square mile, but if you add up all the little pockets of utter economic despair in the rural parts of our country you get a HUGE collection of people who are extremely unlikely to ever improve their lot in life. I previously taught in a district that had urban students, and the most unfortunate cases that I have seen in my career are definitely the rural ones. Sorry to rant, but I really feel obligated to stick up for my students in the sticks - some of them have so much potential!
Great with all this deep talk I can't come in here and make a petty comment about Michigan or grad school apps or what have you. I see your plan to silence me and my cupcake chatter. I SEE IT.
Let's keep this focused on the MFA programs, people:
a) If I accept a spot in an MFA program, only to find that it resembles an early 20th-century Ivy League English Department in its demographics, I'm not going to be pleased. And I'm a white dude!
b) Even if a program checks its numbers every now and then to make sure it's maintaining a diverse student body, do you really think that means they have to DIG to the bottom of their pile for some non-white, queer, etc. writers? Or even the middle of their pile? Ensuring a little diversity does not somehow make the minority candidates mediocre.
c) Actually, I think that's it!
So, instead of worrying tonight about where I'm going to go to school so that I can write I decided, for a change of pace, to actually do some writing. It definitely helped me work out some of the stress. Although I did end up beginning a short story about an admissions committee.
@Mostly_Swell
Just seeing the words 'fried' and 'okra' together instantly made me salivate
I apologize for making the original comment that started this whole thing. Really, it was an offhanded remark that I knew would stir the pot a little, though I didn't expect people to feel insulted.
"to say that the implication that non-white students are admitted to programs simply to diversify a cohort is patronizing and insulting"
I think you're right, Jasmine, but it doesn't make it untrue. Though I don't know how much calculation goes into these kinds of decisions. Probably most of it is unconscious, in the form of tiny concessions, here and there. Speaking only of the MFA application process, I can see a committee member, perhaps many, attributing stylistic/craft choices within a manuscript, to cultural/ethnic background, even if they don't agree with them. It's not that a poor manuscript would be admitted for diversity's sake, but that a reader (white/non-white) of non-white manuscript may back away from certain things, or glorify them.
The Sun By: Thomas Jensen
The Sun: By Javier Zapata
I don't know if what I've said is true. But it's something I believe.
Re: Race and diversity
I don't think it's as big of a deal as people like to believe. I sincerely doubt schools are picking minorities over whites for the color of their skin. Maybe I'm naive, but I truly do believe admissions are based on the writing sample.
I do think, however, that with all things being equal the minority would probably win out. I also think with all things equal (same race, same writing proficiency), the Harvard grad would win out. With all things being equal, the person who has traveled the world would win out. Whether people think being a minority should be a slight edge is debatable. But ethnic lit has been a fairly hot commodity in the book world, so don't blame MFA programs, blame the average reader of lit fiction.
@Dreux
I agree with you that socioeconomics should be the main factor when it comes to affirmative action. Underrepresented races should also be included, but it should come second to socioeconomic background.
Re: Asians in academia
I fully agree that Asians should not be considered a minority when it comes to academics because they are overrepresented. However, placing a cap on their admissions is ridiculous. Who has ever heard of putting a cap on academic excellence? Does that not seem really odd to you guys? I fully believe that the disadvantaged should be elevated in order to give them a chance, but placing a cap on any race (including Caucasians) is flat out discrimination.
"Whether people think being a minority should be a slight edge is debatable. But ethnic lit has been a fairly hot commodity in the book world, so don't blame MFA programs, blame the average reader of lit fiction."
I like this.
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