KAYBAY. This might make you think I'm really weird, but the other night, I had a dream that you got into Notre Dame. Then everyone on the blog started getting accepted to all sorts of places and it was awesome, and there were like four pages of congratulations.
I also recently had a dream that I got into Cornell (awful to wake up from that one), and a dream that a serial killer was hiding in my closet. Soo yeah.
But in all seriousness, kaybay I really hope you get accepted this year. I think you're someone whom everyone on the blog is really cheering for.
Ha! Laura T, you know you're invested in something when you start having dreams about people on blogs receiving good news :P Hopefully it's a good omen, I don't think it is, but we'll see. I gotta go put Notre Dame in red on my excel spreadsheet. I put UF and Greensboro in red last week. FSU's my only green left...
Don't apologize. (I guess you didn't explicitly apologize, but don't say anything even vaguely apologetic!) This is a miserable process. You're such a wonderful presence on this board, and I think everyone's been rooting for you. I don't want to say like, "Don't worry, everything's going to be ok," because no one can actually guarantee that plus it's kinda patronizing, but... I don't know. You are great. Or you at least seem pretty great, via the interwebs. And you deserve great things. And I think if you feel like crapping all over this board, no one's gonna judge you for it.
when replying by email to a faculty member at an mfa program, do you address the faculty member by their first name? i always get confused about these questions of etiquette. the faculty member in question signed their email with first and last name but of course addressed me by my first name. first name is fine, right? thanks.
hang in there kaybay. i think there are a bunch of us having similarly negative "oh shit what's plan b and do i want to go through this crap again" thoughts. and to be honest, its a nice kind of validation to see that there are other people out there who feel the same way i do.
but seriously, i'm still not accepted anywhere (although i've got three to hear from--all of which are unlikely to accept me) but i haven't entirely given up hope yet. its not over till its over, kaybay
@ inkli__11, I addressed faculty members as "Professor _____". I always get stuck on etiquette things too, but felt like using their first name was too informal.
I am receiving rejection letters, and they seem to have faces, they breathe and smirk. Brown rejected me today, no letter, just an online status update; they do not waste paper on me. The words were harsh and cruel, and I'm sure they tried to make it sound pleasant but they failed, worse than I ever will. 'We regret to inform you that you are shit. That you should give up now, that you have no talent, no authenticity and to be frank, your application was laughable.' Good luck with your future shitology.'
Many thanks, but I want a letter; something I can pin up and read in years to come when I'm shitting on the faces of your arrogance. Something I can laugh at. Something I can use to remind me that rejections come and go, and come more often than they go.
Tonights going to be tough. Tomorrow will be worse. When will the sun yawn again?
@everyone--here is a great short video that someone posted on FB--can't get the original, but if you're on FB you should be able to watch. It's about great people who were told they were failures. Of course not one person here is a failure, but just in case some were having incorrect thoughts about themselves!
Y'all joke about your work being shiht and such, but you know and I know that it's a simple matter of applications vs. available seats. Hundreds apply, only a handful of seats (maybe a dozen) are available. Many many applicants are qualified and have the chops to do well in these MFA programs. But hell, there are only so many seats available. A rejection does not mean you suck.
Life is whacky. Back in the 6th grade, I could've chosen a path toward drugs, deception, and destruction. Instead, my family moved and I transformed into the class brain. Like, whoa! How does a thing like that happen!?!?!
i feel you on not wanting to apply again kaybay, and i'm not going to if i get shutout... i just feel at this point, and i think i don't only speak for myself (but maybe i do!), that i write what i enjoy to read, and i don't need an acceptance to justify this, not that those who get accepted do, but i think in a way i initially applied for that as one of my reasons. so, i will plug away and finish my first book at some point this summer and cross my fingers! good luck to you all!
@inkli__11 - I always start out with Professor Lastname; most of them have corrected me and said, "Oh, please call me _____." Still, better to be corrected for being polite than be seen as rude, you know?
My sister has a friend from high school who went on to write some vampire novels. Not great, not bad, but at the very least, she established a writing career early in her life. Fast forward a decade, now she's wallowing in nowhere land. Life is whacky.
@Rosie I found your doc story funny and I face this everyday in a family full of engineers no one can understand what fiction writing can do for a person. I have stopped telling people I write coz they have that look - like really how come you are not known at all - or some of them have the 'Whatever so that means you make no money'....I face it like every day in India especially where the becoming a doctor or an engineer are the only benchmarks of success here, and if you happen to be a writer well you haven't yet won the Booker Prize so big deal.....
I checked the webadvisor under prospective students after log in. Admission status showed the acceptance as 2/27, letters will be sent out mid March. It's possible they are still deciding? I hope it all works out for both of us!
Question for everyone. I don't know if this will end up being my situation personally or not, but I was just wondering in general what everyone thinks about taking out a small loan for an MFA. Not coming out with $100,000 of debt like it's commonly talked about for the expensive unfunded programs -- I agree that that's a bad idea. And of course the ideal situation is no debt, and getting paid to do your MFA through a stipend.
But I was wondering, if it turns out to be your only option, what is the consensus about coming out of an MFA with, say, a loan between ten and twenty thousand, or a smaller one. Like if you get some funding, but not enough -- like half your tuition paid instead of all, or no stipend, and it's a program you absolutely love. That's still a lot of money to borrow, obviously, but not as completely terrifying as the Columbia-style debt that everyone should be afraid of.
I've just been thinking about (annoying) money issues all the time with the unfunded/in-funding-limbo offers I've gotten so far, and playing out all possible situations in my head... People I know say that sometimes a little bit of debt is unavoidable, and it won't control your life as long as it is a manageable amount. But for writers, with our whole lives and careers so uncertain, do you think that even a small amount of debt can be devastating?
If you have any questions about the school, Gainesville, or a few of the writers (I had workshops with Leavitt, Ciment, Logan, and Greger), I'd be happen to answer them. I did my undergrad there. But I'm warning you, I graduated 6 years ago, so I might be rusty :)
I'm new at posting on this blog, but I can't stand waiting in silence any longer!
The list so far:
UMass Amherst - rejected Brown - rejected UNH - no response
My online status for UNH just changed from "application is currently under review by department" to "waiting for final grad review." Anyone have a clue what that might mean?
@Laura T and Anti- : Many in this blog will say, "Don't go into debt for an MFA." Art degree. No job upon graduation. No book contract guaranteed. Even if you get a book contract, it does not necessarily lead to the road of riches. The reasoning is sound.
Some will say, "Keep the dream alive."
Only you know what's best for you. Only you are intimately aware of your current situation. If you decide to take the loan, I'd hate for you to regret it sometime in your third semester, thinking to yourself, "Maaan, so THIS is what I got that god damn loan for?!?!"
NM, think I found it. Mine still says "Under Review by Department". I can't say what yours might mean, so don't stress over it! Information that isn't meaningful to you isn't really information at all.
According to Driftless House, last year UNH began notifying fiction and CNF the second week in March and poetry the third. So it's likely that we'll know something before too long!
Sorry for the late reply, I had an 18 hour shift today!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE ADVISE, the list of schools, the concern. It means a lot and it is EXTREMELY helpful *hugs*
10-20k in loans, depending on how you amortize it, will probably cost you between $125-300 per month once you graduate. I guess that means as a writer, being prepared to work in something else in addition to writing (which could compete with your writing time). But you could also publish and make up all or some of it that way! (not could, will) :)
In general, student loan debt is not bad, but it also matters how much other debt you have. If you have no car loan, no credit card debt, maybe even no mortgage, then a student loan is not a huge undertaking.
I paid for my grad degree with partial loans. In this day and age, it's inevitable.
It's safest to call them Prof. (insert last name). All of my MFA program profs allow us to call them by their first, but one of the English Dept lit professors wants to be called by his last. You just never know!
I assume today i'll be getting my Iowa rejection letter... didn't get it saturday. So i'm steeling myself for that inevitability later in the afternoon.
Three rejections and full on silence from 10 other schools. this week better bring SOMETHING.
In regards to going to unfunded programs--you'd probably be far better off if you took out a loan to pay application fees and maybe for an online workshop before applying next year than you would be taking out a much more substantial loan in order to go to a program who's prestige is on the decline under this new ranking system. I know it sucks and that you REALLY want to go RIGHT now, but delayed gratification can be a good thing. If you catch the wave of motivation that this process of being rejected gives you (and improve your writing substantially because of it) you'll be a lot better off in the long run.
There are NO jobs for MFA graduates (and even negative NO jobs for people from less prestigious institutions... I'm serious, Seth just posted some statistics on the P&W forums--basically, you either have to have a Stegner or a significant national book award to get a decent teaching job).
& what percentage of MFA graduates do you see with lucrative book deal? Hmmm?
@Seth, Aaron Thanks, guys! The numbers really put things in perspective for me.
Of course, I am now wishing at this point in time that I'd paid more attention to my junior year stats class. (Pulled out of it by the skin of my teeth with a passing C+. Never. Again.)
how badly have english department job listings, and creative writing job listings more specifically, been hit by the recession?
i know that some states have had hiring freezes on new faculty, and some like georgia are practically dismantling their public unis systems due to the financial situation in the states ... and as always, some departments like the sciences (with outside funding and grants) seem more resistant to financial throes ...
in short, what i'm asking is, are CW job listings shrinking in recent years, staying the same, or by some freak force of nature, is this a comparable plethora of listings ...
@ Woon, Anti-, G. Jackson, and Aaron Apps: Thank you so much for your input on unfunded programs and loans.
@ Woon, That's what I'm afraid of -- taking out the loan then regretting it after or while I'm in a program... And on the other side, the regret that would come with turning down an offer from a program I love... Argh.
@ Aaron Apps, that is a good suggestion about using the money to work on your writing and reapply. I really, really don't want to go through this process again -- the overwhelming anxiety was almost too much to take this time... Also, I'm thinking these programs are only going to get more competitive, so if there was a 100% increase in applications this year, will it be 200% next year? Part of me is saying to take the opportunity while it's here. I just don't know yet, though. I need to see all the financial aid/funding info and all the acceptances once this year's process is over, and then think long and hard about my decision.
@ G. Jackson, that's the debate I'm having right now about if it comes down to taking out a smaller loan -- I have no other debt or other major expenses, I'm really young so have a long time to pay it back... But it's still a lot of money, and with jobs so uncertain, will I even be able to afford a small payment like $150 a month? I don't know! Going crazy.
@ Anti-, I really hope you get a good financial aid package from TNS. I'm in the same situation as you with all my programs, especially Sarah Lawrence. I LOVE the program, the faculty is made up of some of my absolute favorite poets. Here's hoping for some scholarships. I've been looking around and also found that these unfunded programs list some sources of outside scholarships, so I'm going to do some more research into that.
@ Seth, thank you for posting that data about poetry positions in the past couple of years. Really sobering to see how many books and awards most of these new hires have.
I'm actually thinking now of rearranging my post-MFA plans... Very unlikely to find a university teaching job, but maybe I could do something else that uses my degree and involves teaching, at least until I manage to publish a book (hopefully!). Maybe I could work for an arts organization, or an organization that runs programs for young people in the arts... If I end up at Sarah Lawrence, they offer a lot of internships with organizations like that, so maybe with some work experience I could find some kind of interesting job while working on publishing my writing.
What does everyone think about job prospects after the MFA if you've managed to do a couple of internships or things like that while in the program?
Let me just say that applying for the second time, though no less an anxiety-filled adventure, is much easier logistically.
This year, I did everything in a couple days in October, as I had personal statements pretty much ready to go, I knew the drill on the online applications, and my professors (having already written their letters) were on top of things.
These programs aren't going anywhere, and your writing's only going to get better (and so give you a better chance at a good, funded program in the future).
If you don't get funding this year, I see your basic choices as facing a tough, unforgiving job market now without debt, or facing a tough, unforgiving job market in two years with debt.
Of course, if you don't think you'll be bothered by debt, go for it. But I don't know, paying off loans is no fun.
If you can intern in some editorial role, you could be set up to do something in addition to CW once you finish, just in case teaching doesn't work out. (There also are non-university teaching at places like Gotham's in NYC, though the pay varies and usually they want you to be published).
If you're willing to write for other people - then any communication field would offer jobs post-grad. PR, grant-writing, web writing, editing, etc. There's always work for writers if you gain the right experience.
I've known writers who have gotten discouraged and left writing for other fields - including a Hopkins poet who is now an information architect - and some who have found a new passion for a secondary field. So,
In the end, it's just about what balance works best for you.
One thing that might be worthwhile is joining the Editorial Freelancers Association (I think there is a student membership). You might be able to pick up freelance work between semesters. Also, places like PopMatters.com are always looking for contributors - it's unpaid, but it helps build your portfolio.
It's hard not to stress. But take it from someone who couldn't afford to write after undergrad, went down the path of journalism/PR for ten years and now have returned to writing. You may do something else, but you never lose the passion.
How long does it take to receieve your official letter if you're outside the states? This sucks for me because I can't go to the post office every day. Any idea?
Got my Writers' Workshop rejection today. I knew it was coming, but, as has been said before, it still stings. Also got a very, very cold rejection letter from The Normal School lit mag. So cold that I doubt I'll submit there again. Anyone have that experience with that or another magazine? You're only typing two sentences, why not make slip at least a modicum of kindness in?
@Laura T, I know you're being bombarded with advice right now, but I wanted to second what k said. This isn't my first time with MFA apps. I was accepted to one (unfunded) program last year, but deferred to see if I could do better this year. I've been accepted to several programs, two with funding. What really changed wasn't so much my writing, but my personal statement, and therefore my own understanding of what I really wanted to get out of these programs. I felt much more informed this time around, did my research, and cast my net wider. That said, weren't you accepted to Pitt? I found this interview from their journal, Hot Metal Bridge: http://hotmetalbridge.org/2007/08/new-mfa-week-an-interview-with-katy-rank-lev-on-the-topic-of-funding/ If you're intent on going this year there are options out there. It's just a matter of finding them and fighting for them! good luck.
I was accepted to GMU on 2/16 and have received two seperate mailings from them. The second included detailed information about funding and how to accept/decline your offer of admission.
I've emailed Jennifer Stone my intentions (waiting on the funding process to run its course before I can accept) and she responded promptly to let me know she was updating my information.
After that, nothing. Now I know they are on Spring Break this week.
Thank you sooo much everyone for the advice. I really appreciate how when someone on the blog asks a question, a bunch of people always jump in with suggestions and different perspectives.
Lipsha, thank you for sharing that interview! I did get into Pitt, without funding. It is great to know that there are other opportunities out there for funding if you are willing to fight for them. I also emailed the director at Pitt to ask about looking for alternate funding and I'm going to ask the other schools that have accepted me, too, if it turns out that I don't get funding from them.
k, thank you for your advice and insights... You are right that applying a second time would be easier logistically. I just don't want to be still here a year from now, going through the same panic of wondering if I'll get in -- I hate the waiting! But I'll have to ask myself if the waiting would be worth it if I need to wait for a funded offer.
G. Jackson, thank you for those ideas about other job opportunities for writers... I have done some journalism before and wouldn't mind doing some freelancing on the side for extra money, so I will definitely look into that. Poetry is my biggest passion but I do enjoy other kinds of writing as well, so maybe I will be able to find something...
I guess what it comes down to for writers in this cruel job market is that we have to explore all the opportunities that are out there, be persistent and flexible... I never thought I would step out of an MFA program and land in a tenure-track university teaching position, but I thought maybe I could go the adjunct or community college route. Now that even that route looks so competitive, I'm thinking of other options, at least other temporary options.
I was accepted at GMU for CNF, and I had a TA interview about two weeks ago. They told me they'd get back in about a month. Their system doesn't seem cut and dry--I think they weed through until they've selected candidates. So you could still be contacted for an interview if you haven't already. I feel pretty in the dark about whether or not they'll offer me a position, but here's to hoping! Good luck.
I guess decisions (maybe only rejections) are up if you login to the blackboard site.
I'm 0 for 8, with three more to go and the horizon is dimly lit.
I hung my rejection letters on the wall next to my closet door so I can see them every morning, and whisper something like "You will not defeat me."
I'll soldier on, as we all will.
Just remember to write what you want to write, and not what you think some program might want. (I am trying to remind myself this daily). Maybe I'll try this again next year, and maybe I won't, but I do thank you all for being my invisible support system. Sorry I lurked for so long. Seems rude that I did, like I was spying on something I shouldn't have been privy to.
Stranger, May I also add, it doesn't hurt to call programmes to ask them how they deal with notifying Int'l applicants. I've called four schools, letting them know my situation (and that letters can take up to three weeks to reach where my address which would suck if one may be sitting on acceptances and waiting on said school but can't do anything until said school's letter comes by mail which could be waay in April which simply just isn't kosher . . . ). Anyway, they've all been very helpful. One made a note beside my app that they'd notify me by e-mail as soon as a decision is made; two confirmed that for ppl living abroad they send notification e-mails instead of letters, and one even went ahead and dug up my status before the school was set to send out notifications. Just be very polite and explain your situation succinctly. I'm sure they'll be sympathetic (and, believe me, it's comforting to know where you stand with specific schools). G'luck :)
Woke up to a missed call from "Unknown" this morning. No voicemail, no way to call the number back. Am going to pretend that it was one of my remaining schools calling to accept me. Would appreciate if everyone supported me in this delusion.
@Jake-Up That sucks about UNH! So sorry to hear that. My status on the MyUNH page still says "Under departmental review". Do you know if yours changed to anything else before you were denied? Also, what's your genre?
Regarding Arkansas- I've seen one fiction acceptance a while back on these boards, but nothing more. Anyone else notified/have any updates? Sadly, there's no online status page to visit constantly...
Also, accidentally left my cell phone at home today. Potential phone AND mail messages waiting at home?!?!??! Twice the exhilaration!
Come one Denver U. (I know you are currently calling applicants!) and University of North Texas (I emailed both programs over the weekend... hoping for some sort of response ideally: yes! or ACCEPTED!!! or even, "Come give us hugs and kisses! We love you!"
Hoping for good news from Denver University and University of North Texas today. Of course, DU is my first choice, but I will take either at this point! COME ON GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Congrats to all the acceptances and hopefuls on wait list priority! I feel a little hope as people turn from despair at possible rejection to Woohoo! I got in!'s.
Wow, anyways I'm becoming totally neurotic, I subscribed to this thread and am checking it constantly every time I'm near a computer. I keep checking my mail box but no news, no emails either, and I heard of at least one UC Irvine fiction acceptance, I think? One more spot gone; I really, really desperately need this, and I didn't look properly into NYU and Columbia funding at the time so Irvine is my only viable option left. I also have been asked by my brother to come to the area to take care of my mother who has severe medical problems, but I can't do that without some sort of job, funding, or reason to stay...
Please, please Irvine, please God, someone out there, please give me some good news!!! I feel like I'm literally going crazy, which I'm sure so many of you understand.
@UNT Applicants I know that UNT has an MA instead of an MFA in creative writing. What attracted you to that school. I like Denton and everything, but I was just curious what about their program you liked. I was very close to applying.
The woman I spoke with said that they made a "first cut" from 70 applications (I didn't catch whether or not this was in fiction or all genres combined-- I'd assume for the whole program, though) down to 30. Then she said they would be offering spots to 17 of those 30 by tomorrow.
Really depressed now that a JHU fiction acceptance has been reported.
That means only 4 of my 24 schools haven't yet notified any fiction applicants, as far as we know (Oregon, Virginia, NYU, Columbia). And 2 of those 4 schools I probably can't afford anyway.
I'm right there with you. Completely depressed about the JHU fiction acceptance. For some reason, I thought if no one here had reported an acceptance, it couldn't have happened yet.
@sahaider: UNT also has PhD in English lit with a creative writing dissertation option. One of my favorite authors is currently attending there. Plus, everyone from the program emailed me a response when I was initially checking into the school.
Who called you? Did they say anything about funding? (I'm in for fiction too and I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the money, no official information yet)
I was accepted to GMU and called Jennifer Stone last week. At that time, they were finishing up their first round of TA interviews and offering positions. Then they're moving on to the "second heat" of candidates, which Jen told me I would be included in. I would suggest giving her a call to see where you are on the list and make sure you can get an interview.
All is not lost. =o) Hang in there - hopefully we'll be seeing each other in the fall.
@weighswithwords- Thanks for the congrats! I got the call on Friday, or rather the voice mail! I was sooo happy!
@daniel- I haven't heard anything about funding, I just received a voice mail from Charles D'Ambrosio. I still need to call back to have a chat, but I'm very, very excited!
@Chelsea That's cool. Keep us updated if you hear anything about funding. There are a few Portland State acceptees on here and I think we're all in the dark on the money subject.
How do you feel about Portland. Accepted anwhere else? Do you think you'll go?
I posted once before. But I didn't include my list at the time. Now that this year's application cycle is over for me, here it is. I applied in fiction and was rejected by the following five programs:
Brown Cornell Iowa Stanford (Stegner fellowship) UT-Austin (Michener Center)
A difficult row to hoe to be sure but I have no regrets as I'm very happy with what I'm otherwise doing with my life.
One final question: was there a very kind personal note on everybody's Iowa rejection? (I recall Courtney mentioning one too.) If the answer is "no," than perhaps my ego will be just a smidgen less bruised. If the answer is "yes," than there is even more proof that Ms. Chang is incredibly gracious and kind.
Best of luck to everybody in their current and future pursuits!
Hey guys, since there are no jobs and pretty much zero chances of there being jobs in our chosen field, I think we should all pack it up and forget about this MFA thing. Why waste our time on 2-3 years of a meaningless degree? The opportunity cost is just not worth it. We could find a good paying job in the business field and save a lot for our retirement while we're at it!
I want to thank everyone who's posted; your worries, anguish, and excitement have helped me realize that I'm not alone in this tough/scary process. Oh and Congrats to all who have made it somewhere!
Anywho, here's my list Rejected: Michener, Brown, Wash U, Iowa
Pending: Cornell, NYU, UC Irvine, Florida State, U Oregon, U Wash, Colorado State
Hopefully I'll receive some good news this week. If not, I'm sure I'll make it out alive. Good luck all!
Nothing is ever easy in a creative field. Competition is fierce for admission into MFA programs. Why would getting jobs/fellowships/residencies be any different? A degree in most fields doesn't really guarantee anything. It used to (a long, long time ago), but those days are long gone and apparently our parent's generation didn't pass us the memo. It's up to the individual to look for and create opportunities (if the desire is there to push forward).
I got on that "short waiting list," for Indiana for fiction, too! I'm happy to have my first official good news, even if it isn't a full-on acceptance. Someone (kind of) likes me!
Just received an acceptance email from U Washington for Fiction (even though my application was for CNF)! Waitlist for funding.
Status list is now (all for CNF):
Rejection - Hunter, Wyoming, U Colorado Boulder, U Montana, UNH, Oregon State Waitlisted - George Mason, UNCW Have not heard - Columbia, New School, LSU, American, Vanderbilt Accepted - U Washington
I e-mailed American over the weekend and got a response back this morning telling me that they had just finished reviewing my application and that my decision would be mailed this week. Of course I immediately assumed that meant I was rejected and the woman just didn't want to tell me in the e-mail. I'm going crazy.
Another Iowa reject here (and no, dv, no special note from LSC).
I got on the waitlist at South Florida by letter marked 3/3. Did anyone else anywhere ever once maybe could have might have applied here or at least thought about it? I feel like I just got beaten out by invisible people. (Though, to be fair, Troglodytes also possible.)
Congrats on the Washington acceptance! It is strange that they accepted you for a genre other than the one you applied for. I see that you were rejected from Montana for CNF -- how were you notified? I have not heard a word from them.
Has anyone heard anything from Arizona re: CNF? Things seem quiet in Tucson.
I wish MFA programs would let us know how far we made it in their process. Did we make it to the quarterfinals? the semifinals? the finals? Top 50? Top 25?
Aside from occasional hand-written notes (e.g., Courtney), it seems to be a mystery. So far, the only info we get is: acceptance, waitlist, and rejection. Many in the rejected column feel -- and rightly so -- that the MFA program doesn't like them (see, e.g., em yeu anh's declaration above). In reality, I think many people here made it quite far but just don't know it. (Of course, I have no data to back up my previous sentence.)
I look back in my high school years and all the crushes I had. Did Mia, Rebecca, Mary Jo, and Candy know that I had a "thing" for them? Alas, if only they knew...*sigh*
I’m not trying to put anyone down and stomp on your dreams but…
To the people who are complaining about getting cheap, form rejection letters from various MFA programs with no personal response, or are looking to get in "anywhere" to validate your writing talent: perhaps you might want to consider a line of work or vocation other than writing.
Because writing, at least if you do it with a goal of being published somewhere other than your blog, is mostly about rejection and/or indifference.
I’ve had over a dozen articles and essays published in the last few years, several in national magazines, but I can assure you about 99% of what I submit is rejected. Most of the time the publication I submit to won’t even acknowledge receiving my piece, let alone send me a personal note reassuring me that my writing is still wonderful and I’m probably a great guy.
When you do get a rejection it will almost certainly be in the form of a cold, impersonal form letter. In fact, out of the hundreds of rejections I’ve received, I can only think of a handful that consisted of anything else but a form e-mail or letter.
What, you think because you dropped a $100 on an application fee, someone at the school of your choice owes you a personal phone call reassuring you you're still special? Grow up. Seriously. Most people who work in admissions offices or selection committess are understaffed, underpaid, incredibly busy, yet dedicated to their work. Sort of like the editors at the magazines and newspapers who won’t be responding to most of your submissions.
I’m not saying that we don’t all have moments of doubt and discouragement about our work and our abilities—I do at least several times a week—but if you want to be a writer you’d better have belief in yourself and a hide like a rhinoceros. If you don’t, getting into the best writing program in the world isn’t going to do you much good.
That said, I really do wish the best of luck to everyone on this blog. Flame away if you must, but I thought this needed to be said.
I have a feeling they did that because don't actually offer the CNF genre.
@Liz
When I saw your list initially I noted two programs on it that don't have CNF programs: Oregon and Washington. So I left those off the tally. I see now you mean Oregon State (which was my guess) and the Washington thing is now explained I suppose...
I think it's useful information to know that I was #172 at Michener, for example. Out of 1,300 applications, #172 ain't too bad. Maybe if I had changed it from Third Person to First Person, I would've been #86? If I had deleted that limerick on page 7, maybe #49? I just don't know.
@Gena - lol, troglodytes. Also, congrats and good luck with moving off the list! :)
@Liz - congratulations on UW! Lots of my friends/family members went there (for undergrad/business school), so let me know if I can answer any questions! My email is: ede02005 (at) mymail (dot) pomona (dot) edu
Not sure if I'm accepted yet, but the incredibly nice woman I talked to said acceptances are going to be mailed out in about two weeks.
@phillywriter
Congrats. Your story was truly inspiring. I'm rooting for you all the way.
@PR/freelance people
I'm graduating with a BFA in TV & Film Writing. Any idea on where I can find these freelance gigs would be EXTREMELY helpful. I'm a crazy hard worker, so any place where I can type away at a 9-5 for a decent (or at least liveable. I can go without movies and new clothes for about another year, if needed) paying job would be nice.
I've done the online job hunting, and it's plain confusing. Some of the jobs are even two years-old!
I appreciate the advice given here. This is the only spot online where a writer can post a serious question without being shat on by some douchebag business or computer engineering major.
One final question: Is it possible to defer an acceptance to more than one program?
First off, I agree. I send out poems daily, and I receive rejections daily. I am yet to get rejected by a school, but I assume I will feel the same way when I do when a magazine turns me down:
a big sign, a sip of coffee, maybe a cigarette...and then I send some more out.
I am not certain that you had to take the route of saying everyone had to grow up and be more mature, but I get where you are coming from. These schools owe you nothing. If they truly wanted, they could probably just not send out rejections at all. If April 1st comes and you did not get a call, assume you were rejected.
So, I guess, be thankful that they even acknowledge you. I do not see a reason why they have to at all.
@manlamancha-I think, in the world of writers, simple, courteous rejections letters would be easy to write. Iowa's letter was, even without the personal note.(I didn't get one, nor did I expect one) However, I got another reject lection which was quite unnecessarily condescending. A form letter only needs to be written once, duplicated thousands of time, so why not make it courteous?
I don't really care about phone calls or personalized letters in fine embossed stationery with an impressive watermark. As for rejections, I've gotten plenty from lit mags so I'm used to them. In fact, I look forward to them and save them in my filing cabinet. I show them to my wife and, invariably, she says, "What dildo fuhcks!" Heheh. God I love her!
@dryleaves - Montana came through snail mail early last week. I think on their website they indicated that although they don't offer CNF, you could still study it there, so applying was a gamble that apparently paid off. Will let you know more as I find out!
@Seth - Thanks for the kind words! I literally quit my job Friday in online media analytics... today's news was lovely to hear that my gamble might pay off.
@Zoulou - you'll be hearing from me, appreciate the help!
A future full of certain constant rejection doesn't mean that those feelings of hurt and inadequacy have to be stuffed and denied. We're all nervous and are finding comfort in commiseration. I think it's been said before on this board that we lose too many artists to finding their desperately needed comfort elsewhere--drugs, suicide, retail jobs. Here is community--take it or leave it. We hope you'll take it.
Don’t analyze the wording on your rejection. Come on, does it /really/ matter? Most everyone who gets into a top school or two is also rejected by multiple schools as well. That is how this process works. And if you don’t make in anywhere, keep trying. Don’t worry about what the letters say—it doesn’t mean jack. Hell, I’ve heard of people getting insulting and horribly critical letters from literary journals (this has never happened to me) and I would just ignore that too.
If it is a place that received a substantial number of applications, seriously, they are busy with other stuff too (like teaching and spending time mentoring writers who are already in their program). What Manlamancha said is basically the state of things. Yeah, it sucks that its all really challenging and such, but that is the way it is. I also have to second WanderingTree—it only gets harder from here on out. But that just means you have to stick with it and realize that it is an extremely hard process.
@Liz: Congrats on the U of Washington! Great program.
@PhillyWritter: Congrats on Indiana! Hope you make it off the wait-list!
@Gena: Congrats on South Florida. If you decide to go I highly suggest picking up a class with Charles Guignon in the philosophy department... he’s pretty amazing.
For all you Hunter applicants, I was unofficially accepted and just withdrew myself from the running. An excruciating decision, but I can't live in NYC. A spot has been freed up, so good luck to you!
What Aaron Apps said (paraphrasing WT) about things getting harder from here on out is true. I thought that after college, I took my last exam. I remember telling my friends exactly this: "Maaan, I'm so glad I don't have to take another exam again for the rest of my life, ever!"
What followed was one exam after another: work, Professional Engineering exam, certifications, presentations to company execs, LSAT, law school, bar exam, GRE, now English Lit classes at an MFA program. Life is a series of tests: even maintaining domestic tranquility with the wife is a test. Now, as a writer, it'll be a test of perseverance and persistence.
Don't take it the wrong way, but I truly believe people don't know what perseverance and persistence means. (Not you people, I'm talking about other people.) I see it all the time. People talk about working hard, but they mostly goof off. Just lip service to "hard work" and "good work ethic."
I'm going to Borders now to get the latest National Geographic magazine. Interesting feature on wolves.
I think we owe it to each other to be decent. A rejection is enough by itself; no need to add barbs and make it worse.
And I think it's presumptive to tell people who you think are bad writers what they'd better spend their time at. Let them write, don't make them feel bad. Relax!
My parents called me on Saturday to let me know my official Alabama rejection had come in the mail. (I'm still at school in Canada.) So that makes for rejections from Alabama, Texas, and presumably Vanderbilt...I guess the universe doesn't want a hardcore Massachusetts Yankee to be a Southerner I guess! Although I am still waiting on Florida. I'm not too broken up about it. Rather, I'm not broken up about it at all. :)
My Iowa, Montana, and Colorado State presumed rejections are still MIA. And then there's NYU, Columbia, Penn State, and UVA to hear from. Man.
But I finally received my Naropa acceptance package in the mail so I have my actual letter sitting next to me at all times when I'm on the computer, which is always, so I feel a bit better. Hang in there everyone!
@Anti- and other BC applicants: word on the street (uh, from my email) is that they are still in the process of notifying accepted students and those on the waitlist. other ppl will hear via letter later this month. unfortunately, i have no idea where i stand on this!
@mj Congrats! Maybe we'll both get admitted to Indiana off the waitlist!
I'm trying not to hold out too much hope for Indiana, but at least it's reassuring to know that I was at least close to being accepted somewhere. Fingers crossed!
Thank you to those who've sent along messages of encouragement. Best wishes for good news for all of us soon.
Hello all, I'm writing to let you know that I just turned down my spot at Indiana University. It was the most frightening message I ever wrote (I wavered so long over the send button). I have been sitting on this decision for a very, very long time. And there are several people on this blog I will thank personally for hearing me out as I went back and forth on this decision (e-mail coming soon). I will say though, that it's frightening -- very frightening -- when I think of what I may be passing up. I understand that there are people who may be annoyed at my alleged "problem." I hope you don't construe it as whining. I mean, this is one of those life decisions and it was a big deal for me. However, I saw today that there were people on here who received waitlist notifications (one person in particular whom I'm sincerely rooting for). That, more than anything, emboldened me to make my choice today. I could not in good conscience hold on to the spot for a sense of security knowing what I've read of some people's experiences and knowing they're now on the waitlist. A sincere, hearty good luck. Phew . . . man . . . wow. OK, I'm going to bed.
Wow, Cratty. Thanks so much for coming to your decision about Indiana so quickly. Whether I'm the affected waitlist individual or not, I'm glad that your decision will bring good news to someone out there.
I knew you were one of the Indiana admits, and that you had also been admitted to Virginia Tech. Thanks for all the support you've given so many of us on this blog, and I hope you're truly happy wherever you end next year.
cratty: YOU ARE MY HERO. even if i don't get your spot, your integrity is totally above and beyond. i can't say that i would have the same bravery as you, in that position, so my hat's off to you. remind me where else you got in?
I emailed Cloud Spurlock today to ask about my funding chances at George Mason. He said it is unlikely that I will receive funding.
I'm crushed because, aside from Houston, GMU was my top choice. Now I seriously doubt I'll be able to afford it. While I do have some savings, it'd only cover a year of tuition and no living costs.
@pdg and mj I wonder how short Indiana's "short waiting list" is?
I hope Cratty's spot goes to someone on the MFA Blog. Although I suppose there are probably many MFA Blog lurkers who are just as anxious and hopeful as we are.
I am not sure what you are going through (do not follow this blog regularly), but I wish you good fortune with your pursuits. You seem quite an honorable one!
I asked, and it's not their policy to reveal that information, and I can't blame them.
BUT
As they offer 6 spots each genre per year, I do not think it would be a ridiculously long waitlist. I think this is something to be proud of. I am glad to have my first good news!
So, I guess there are at least four of us on that waiting list. I'll try to temper my hopes. But the list can't be that long, with only 6 admits, so I think we should all feel that this is a great thing even if we never earn an admission spot. Congrats and fingers still crossed!
I feel like this is one of those happy things that comes out of such a forum as this MFA blog. I'm honored to be amongst the three of you on this waitlist, I agree that it can't be a terribly long one, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens and truly wish everyone the very best.
@ M. Swann: I agree with you. I do think that a bit of the same “TILIS” directed in a positive direction rather than a negative one (which is what I tried to do) isn’t such a bad thing. I’d rather people had an idea of what the future generally has to offer the writer and to give them some positive advice on how to go about navigating through those challenges… (what they do with the advice is something I have no control over)… rather than, say, letting them unknowingly spend 100k on a useless degree and having to deal with oppressive debt for the rest of their lives.
YES! I hope Indy works out! Defintely got my fingers crossed.
@ M.Swann
I'm applauding you from my office (quietly, so as not to disturb my office mate). You captured my sentiments exactly, and articulated them better than I could have. You even included an Idol analogy. Ahh.
The way I think it is: Whether one has a thick enough skin or not to be an artist is a truth to be discovered for ourselves, through experience. I thought that post was smug and unhelpful.
I resent a stranger's implication that I (or any writer here) may not be cut out for the tough writer's life simply because I exhibit some frustration over this intense process. I've seen sadness and even anger expressed here, but never to an unreasonable degree, and I don't think anyone has sounded entitled - far from it.
I just removed myself from the running at Sarah Lawrence, and was told that they have just made their final decisions. I was accepted, but cannot go there due to financial issues. So a new spot for someone else! I assume they will announce soon. Good luck to everyone.
@Cratty: envy you, that you could make a choice. Don't second guess yourself with too many what-ifs. (And it's a genuinely tough call to make, it's not whining) Congratulations!
@ all acceptances and waitlisters, congratulations!
I'm in Indiana visiting right now. It's unbelievable. I'm still waiting on a few schools, but no matter what else happens, I'm reasonably certain I'll be coming back here when the time comes. Cratty, good for you for making a difficult decision early in the game. I'm sorry I won't be seeing you this fall.
my best friend plans to pursue an MFA in art (painting, specifically), and we were wondering if there are any forums like this out there for art MFA applicants.
There seem to be very little resources in general pertaining to art MFAs, so any guidance would be must appreciated!
Thanks so much!
(also -- @Other Emma -- as you make all these decisions -- keep in mind -- if you decide not to attend Montana -- your funded spot goes straight to me! Just sayin' ;) Although honestly I would love to be in a workshop with you.)
CONGRATULATIONS to everyone who's heard good news. And to those who haven't, I am rooting for you all the way.
Ok, I need to say my goodbyes, so this will take a while (sorry for the long post). I'll start with news:
-I called Notre Dame and found out that I was not admitted. I don't know if they have notified all of their acceptances, but something tells me they have (who knows about waitlists). -I called Florida State and all of their acceptances have been notified, leaving only waitlisters to be notified anywhere between now and April 15th (she said they were unsure of who they are waitlisting). Since I doubt people who get in from the wait list receive funding, even I am waitlisted at Florida State, I would likely not be able to attend due to finances. -I will call UF and UNCG tomorrow and share any relevant news received from them. Since UF has already notified and UNCG has sent GNEs, I am taking that to mean I am also not admitted there. -Received the rejection from Iowa, no note from Chang (so kudos, Courtney! ;) ) -That makes me 0-10-1, the one wait list being McNeese State.
So, I've decided to unsubscribe to this blog and only check it periodically to see where you lovely people get accepted/waitlisted. Since I'm pretty much done, there's no need to check it as fervently as I have been doing. I'm going to take a break from writing for a while (I know, against advice), do a ton of reading, and relax. Then start writing again. I need to focus on my work a little bit more considering I will likely be returning (I'm going to be applying for jobs like a mo fo in the next few months though, so hopefully I don't have to return to my crazy-ass school. Maybe I'll have the pleasure of teaching elsewhere, yay!).
I need to say that you guys have been really cool during this whole process, something I did not expect. Thank you for your kind words, encouragement, and emails. There are some talented writers here and I'm super happy for those whose talent has been recognized. For those yet to receive acknowledgment, I'll see you next year ;)
ok sorry to be completely panicky, but those of you who called the English department, did they say anything about poetry vs. fiction? My blackboard info only says they received my application, it doesn't say it's under review or anything.
I'm so sorry you won't be hanging with us. But I do, of course, understand. I am still super super praying you get in at McNeese or Florida State!
Please share what UF says if you call them. I am pretty darned sure they're done notifying though. I didn't know Florida State was done notifying -- Thanks for that (depressing) bit of info. Ugh!
One thing about Florida State's waitlist though. I heard they cut the size of their program, but that they are now funding 100 percent of their students. So if you were to get in off the waitlist, you'd be funded. I read that somewhere a while ago. I think.
You've been an awesome companion on this journey Kaybay! I will miss you here. Take care.
I'm fiction. I just got here in time for dinner last night and I spent all morning today with faculty and students. The director, Samrat Upadhyay, is a really nice guy and we talked a long time about all sorts of stuff including options in the program and diversity within the program and travel and classes. I attended a class led by Tony Ardizonne and then went to a meeting with the students who teach his discussion classes. Tony is a nice guy, seems really passionate, and all the students I've met are really cool and really helpful. I haven't explored Bloomington too much; I took a walk down the main drag earlier (today's the first day of nice weather according to the students, and it's not just nice, it's absolutely gorgeous) and it's full of funky little shops and a lot of restaurants and stuff like that. There's a lot of stuff going on right off campus in that area that I haven't checked out.
The campus is truly beautiful (I went to undergrad at Binghamton University, a great school with an ugly campus, according to some. I always used to defend it because it seemed sufficient to me, but, well, it gets blown away pretty easily) and GIGANTIC in a way I wasn't necessarily anticipating. I mean I knew it was big, but not quite this big. It's a huge sports school with a lot of Greek life, but I'm reasonably assured that both those elements are easily avoided if that's your wish.
Generally everything I've encountered has been really positive. The faculty and other students seem really involved and supportive. Tomorrow I'll attend a workshop and meet more people, and then there's a poetry reading, so I'll go to that too.
It's been an excellent visit. I have nothing bad to say at all.
2,265 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 2265 Newer› Newest»KAYBAY. This might make you think I'm really weird, but the other night, I had a dream that you got into Notre Dame. Then everyone on the blog started getting accepted to all sorts of places and it was awesome, and there were like four pages of congratulations.
I also recently had a dream that I got into Cornell (awful to wake up from that one), and a dream that a serial killer was hiding in my closet. Soo yeah.
But in all seriousness, kaybay I really hope you get accepted this year. I think you're someone whom everyone on the blog is really cheering for.
Anyone, lurkers included (!), heard from West Virginia yet? --fiction genre.
Ha! Laura T, you know you're invested in something when you start having dreams about people on blogs receiving good news :P Hopefully it's a good omen, I don't think it is, but we'll see. I gotta go put Notre Dame in red on my excel spreadsheet. I put UF and Greensboro in red last week. FSU's my only green left...
@kaybay
Don't apologize. (I guess you didn't explicitly apologize, but don't say anything even vaguely apologetic!) This is a miserable process. You're such a wonderful presence on this board, and I think everyone's been rooting for you. I don't want to say like, "Don't worry, everything's going to be ok," because no one can actually guarantee that plus it's kinda patronizing, but... I don't know. You are great. Or you at least seem pretty great, via the interwebs. And you deserve great things. And I think if you feel like crapping all over this board, no one's gonna judge you for it.
But also, please, don't give up.
I've always wanted to hold a golden statuette and say, "I'd like to thank the Academy..."
Thanks Charles, that was sweet :)
And woon, if you ever do receive a golden statuette, begin your speech with "D'OY!"
excuse me for asking such a silly question, but:
when replying by email to a faculty member at an mfa program, do you address the faculty member by their first name?
i always get confused about these questions of etiquette. the faculty member in question signed their email with first and last name but of course addressed me by my first name. first name is fine, right? thanks.
hang in there kaybay. i think there are a bunch of us having similarly negative "oh shit what's plan b and do i want to go through this crap again" thoughts. and to be honest, its a nice kind of validation to see that there are other people out there who feel the same way i do.
but seriously, i'm still not accepted anywhere (although i've got three to hear from--all of which are unlikely to accept me) but i haven't entirely given up hope yet. its not over till its over, kaybay
@ inkli__11, I addressed faculty members as "Professor _____". I always get stuck on etiquette things too, but felt like using their first name was too informal.
thanks, laura t. that does seem appropriate.
@kaybay, *virtual hug, real tight*
I am receiving rejection letters, and they seem to have faces, they breathe and smirk.
Brown rejected me today, no letter, just an online status update; they do not waste paper on me.
The words were harsh and cruel, and I'm sure they tried to make it sound pleasant but they failed, worse than I ever will. 'We regret to inform you that you are shit. That you should give up now, that you have no talent, no authenticity and to be frank, your application was laughable.'
Good luck with your future shitology.'
Many thanks, but I want a letter; something I can pin up and read in years to come when I'm shitting on the faces of your arrogance. Something I can laugh at. Something I can use to remind me that rejections come and go, and come more often than they go.
Tonights going to be tough. Tomorrow will be worse. When will the sun yawn again?
kinda hoping to hear something from notre dame as well...i'm not catholic, but i'm willing to give it a try...
@everyone--here is a great short video that someone posted on FB--can't get the original, but if you're on FB you should be able to watch. It's about great people who were told they were failures. Of course not one person here is a failure, but just in case some were having incorrect thoughts about themselves!
http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=338219969178&ref=mf
I'd rather have an e-mailed rejection. It is faster, cheaper, and better for MOTHER EARTH.
Y'all joke about your work being shiht and such, but you know and I know that it's a simple matter of applications vs. available seats. Hundreds apply, only a handful of seats (maybe a dozen) are available. Many many applicants are qualified and have the chops to do well in these MFA programs. But hell, there are only so many seats available. A rejection does not mean you suck.
Life is whacky. Back in the 6th grade, I could've chosen a path toward drugs, deception, and destruction. Instead, my family moved and I transformed into the class brain. Like, whoa! How does a thing like that happen!?!?!
i feel you on not wanting to apply again kaybay, and i'm not going to if i get shutout...
i just feel at this point, and i think i don't only speak for myself (but maybe i do!), that i write what i enjoy to read, and i don't need an acceptance to justify this, not that those who get accepted do, but i think in a way i initially applied for that as one of my reasons. so, i will plug away and finish my first book at some point this summer and cross my fingers! good luck to you all!
@inkli__11 - I always start out with Professor Lastname; most of them have corrected me and said, "Oh, please call me _____." Still, better to be corrected for being polite than be seen as rude, you know?
My sister has a friend from high school who went on to write some vampire novels. Not great, not bad, but at the very least, she established a writing career early in her life. Fast forward a decade, now she's wallowing in nowhere land. Life is whacky.
The MFA is not the be all, end all.
@Rosie I found your doc story funny and I face this everyday in a family full of engineers no one can understand what fiction writing can do for a person. I have stopped telling people I write coz they have that look - like really how come you are not known at all - or some of them have the 'Whatever so that means you make no money'....I face it like every day in India especially where the becoming a doctor or an engineer are the only benchmarks of success here, and if you happen to be a writer well you haven't yet won the Booker Prize so big deal.....
@xavier
I checked the webadvisor under prospective students after log in. Admission status showed the acceptance as 2/27, letters will be sent out mid March. It's possible they are still deciding? I hope it all works out for both of us!
Question for everyone. I don't know if this will end up being my situation personally or not, but I was just wondering in general what everyone thinks about taking out a small loan for an MFA. Not coming out with $100,000 of debt like it's commonly talked about for the expensive unfunded programs -- I agree that that's a bad idea. And of course the ideal situation is no debt, and getting paid to do your MFA through a stipend.
But I was wondering, if it turns out to be your only option, what is the consensus about coming out of an MFA with, say, a loan between ten and twenty thousand, or a smaller one. Like if you get some funding, but not enough -- like half your tuition paid instead of all, or no stipend, and it's a program you absolutely love. That's still a lot of money to borrow, obviously, but not as completely terrifying as the Columbia-style debt that everyone should be afraid of.
I've just been thinking about (annoying) money issues all the time with the unfunded/in-funding-limbo offers I've gotten so far, and playing out all possible situations in my head... People I know say that sometimes a little bit of debt is unavoidable, and it won't control your life as long as it is a manageable amount. But for writers, with our whole lives and careers so uncertain, do you think that even a small amount of debt can be devastating?
To those accepted to UF as potential Gators:
If you have any questions about the school, Gainesville, or a few of the writers (I had workshops with Leavitt, Ciment, Logan, and Greger), I'd be happen to answer them. I did my undergrad there. But I'm warning you, I graduated 6 years ago, so I might be rusty :)
melissak1982 (at) gmail (dot) com
@Laura T
I'm also thinking about loans.
Still not sure. I haven't heard from any other schools yet, and I still haven't received the admissions packet TNS promised to send me.
I'll talk this over (of course) with my family, since they usually help me put things in perspective.
But the dream is still gnawing away, telling me to go for the loans, despite myself.
I could always donate my body to science...
I'm kidding. Sort of.
I'm new at posting on this blog, but I can't stand waiting in silence any longer!
The list so far:
UMass Amherst - rejected
Brown - rejected
UNH - no response
My online status for UNH just changed from "application is currently under review by department" to "waiting for final grad review." Anyone have a clue what that might mean?
@Laura T and Anti- : Many in this blog will say, "Don't go into debt for an MFA." Art degree. No job upon graduation. No book contract guaranteed. Even if you get a book contract, it does not necessarily lead to the road of riches. The reasoning is sound.
Some will say, "Keep the dream alive."
Only you know what's best for you. Only you are intimately aware of your current situation. If you decide to take the loan, I'd hate for you to regret it sometime in your third semester, thinking to yourself, "Maaan, so THIS is what I got that god damn loan for?!?!"
The MFA dream does not expire.
Hey Nikka-re,
Where on the UNH site did you find that message? I'm not sure where to look.
Thanks!
NM, think I found it. Mine still says "Under Review by Department". I can't say what yours might mean, so don't stress over it! Information that isn't meaningful to you isn't really information at all.
According to Driftless House, last year UNH began notifying fiction and CNF the second week in March and poetry the third. So it's likely that we'll know something before too long!
@ Trible, Franny, aaron Apps, Julia, Mommy J, WanderingTree, Jason J
Sorry for the late reply, I had an 18 hour shift today!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE ADVISE, the list of schools, the concern. It means a lot and it is EXTREMELY helpful *hugs*
sorry if I missed anyone and that reply list
@ woon and zoulou...i forgot u...sorry. thnx for the advise and concern!
@Woon
Your insightful comment is appreciated, esp. in this time of stress and anxiety.
This week's gonna be crazy...
@ Laura T
On the loan question - maybe this will help?
10-20k in loans, depending on how you amortize it, will probably cost you between $125-300 per month once you graduate. I guess that means as a writer, being prepared to work in something else in addition to writing (which could compete with your writing time). But you could also publish and make up all or some of it that way! (not could, will) :)
In general, student loan debt is not bad, but it also matters how much other debt you have. If you have no car loan, no credit card debt, maybe even no mortgage, then a student loan is not a huge undertaking.
I paid for my grad degree with partial loans. In this day and age, it's inevitable.
Hope that helps! Good luck deciding!
subscribing.
@inkli
It's safest to call them Prof. (insert last name). All of my MFA program profs allow us to call them by their first, but one of the English Dept lit professors wants to be called by his last. You just never know!
I assume today i'll be getting my Iowa rejection letter... didn't get it saturday. So i'm steeling myself for that inevitability later in the afternoon.
Three rejections and full on silence from 10 other schools. this week better bring SOMETHING.
In regards to going to unfunded programs--you'd probably be far better off if you took out a loan to pay application fees and maybe for an online workshop before applying next year than you would be taking out a much more substantial loan in order to go to a program who's prestige is on the decline under this new ranking system. I know it sucks and that you REALLY want to go RIGHT now, but delayed gratification can be a good thing. If you catch the wave of motivation that this process of being rejected gives you (and improve your writing substantially because of it) you'll be a lot better off in the long run.
There are NO jobs for MFA graduates (and even negative NO jobs for people from less prestigious institutions... I'm serious, Seth just posted some statistics on the P&W forums--basically, you either have to have a Stegner or a significant national book award to get a decent teaching job).
& what percentage of MFA graduates do you see with lucrative book deal? Hmmm?
@Everyone
Thank you for everyone's input on funding - I'm finding it very eyeopening and useful!
@Aaron Apps
Where can I find Seth's statistics you're referring to?
Thanks Nathaniel. Did you apply for poetry or fiction? Fiction for me.
@ Lee:
The statistics are on the Poets and Writers forum:
I'm not sure this link will work...
http://www.pw.org/speakeasy/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=226508;page=68;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
If it doesn't work, it is under the PhD in creative writing topic in the MFA section of the forum (towards the end of the thread).
Best,
Aaron
@all
Here are the complete stats Aaron was talking about (from P&W).
Open Poetry Positions 2008-9
Carnegie Mellon: Yona Harvey (spousal hire).
Case Western: Sarah Gridley (inside candidate).
CUNY Staten Island: Patricia Smith (5 books).
CUNY Staten Island: Tyehimba Jess (1 book; National Poetry Series Winner + Whiting Award Winner).
Illinois State: Duriel Harris (1 book).
Loyola: Joshua Marie Wilkinson (4 books).
LSU: Lara Glenum (3 books; 2 poetry and 1 as anthology editor).
Montclair: Susan B.A. Somers-Willett (3 books; 2 poetry and 1 criticism).
Ohio Northern: Kathryn Coles (1 book).
Ohio State-Lima: Doug Sutton-Ramspeck (spousal hire).
Texas State: Ogaga Ifowodo (4 books).
UCSD: Ben Doller (2 books + Walt Whitman Award).
UC Boulder: Noah Eli Gordon (6 books).
UC Denver: Brian Barker (1 book + Tupelo Press Editor's Prize).
Oregon: Geri Doran (1 book + Walt Whitman Award).
Rochester: Jennifer Grotz (2 books + Bakeless Prize).
Washburn: Eric McHenry (1 book + Kate Tufts Discovery Prize).
Washington College (3 books; inside candidate).
York: Travis Kurowski (unknown).
Open Poetry Positions 2009-10
George Mason: Ben Doller (3 books + Walt Whitman Award).
Houston: Maurice Manning (3 books + Yale Younger Poets Prize).
Houston: Ange Mlinko (2 books + National Poetry Series Winner).
Charleston: Emily Rosko (1 book + Stegner Fellowship + Iowa Poetry Prize).
Northern Kentucky: Kelly Moffett (1 book).
Greensboro: Rebecca Black (1 book + Stegner Fellowship + Juniper Prize).
Wisconsin-Green Bay: N/A (inside hire).
Tally
Total Positions Filled w/ Known Data (Across Two Years): 25
Non-Publicized Searches: ?
Non-Open Publicized Searches: 5 (20.0%)
Spousal Hires: 2 (8.0%)
Inside Hires: 3 (12.0%)
Total Hires With 1 Book in Open, Publicized Searches: 9 (36.0%)
1 book + 0 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)
1 book + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)
1 book + 2 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)
Total Hires With 2 Books in Open, Publicized Searches: 3 (12.0%)
2 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 0 (0.0%)
2 books + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)
Total Hires With 3 or More Books in Open, Publicized Searches: 8 (32.0%)
3 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 0 (0.0%)
3 books + 1 award/Stegner: 4 (16.0)
4 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 2 (8.0%)
5 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)
6 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)
Top 10 Most Likely Scenarios (By Percentage):
1. 3 books + 1 award/Stegner (16%)
2t. Inside Hires: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 1 book + 0 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 1 book + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 1 book + 2 awards/Stegners: 3 (12.0%)
2t. 2 books + 1 award/Stegner: 3 (12.0%)
7t. Spousal Hires: 2 (8.0%)
7t. 4 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 2 (8.0%)
9t. 5 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)
9t. 6 books + 0 awards/Stegners: 1 (4.0%)
@Seth: Thanks! This makes things a lot less complicated. =)
@Seth, Aaron
Thanks, guys! The numbers really put things in perspective for me.
Of course, I am now wishing at this point in time that I'd paid more attention to my junior year stats class. (Pulled out of it by the skin of my teeth with a passing C+. Never. Again.)
Seth,
how badly have english department job listings, and creative writing job listings more specifically, been hit by the recession?
i know that some states have had hiring freezes on new faculty, and some like georgia are practically dismantling their public unis systems due to the financial situation in the states ... and as always, some departments like the sciences (with outside funding and grants) seem more resistant to financial throes ...
in short, what i'm asking is, are CW job listings shrinking in recent years, staying the same, or by some freak force of nature, is this a comparable plethora of listings ...
@ Woon, Anti-, G. Jackson, and Aaron Apps: Thank you so much for your input on unfunded programs and loans.
@ Woon, That's what I'm afraid of -- taking out the loan then regretting it after or while I'm in a program... And on the other side, the regret that would come with turning down an offer from a program I love... Argh.
@ Aaron Apps, that is a good suggestion about using the money to work on your writing and reapply. I really, really don't want to go through this process again -- the overwhelming anxiety was almost too much to take this time... Also, I'm thinking these programs are only going to get more competitive, so if there was a 100% increase in applications this year, will it be 200% next year? Part of me is saying to take the opportunity while it's here. I just don't know yet, though. I need to see all the financial aid/funding info and all the acceptances once this year's process is over, and then think long and hard about my decision.
@ G. Jackson, that's the debate I'm having right now about if it comes down to taking out a smaller loan -- I have no other debt or other major expenses, I'm really young so have a long time to pay it back... But it's still a lot of money, and with jobs so uncertain, will I even be able to afford a small payment like $150 a month? I don't know! Going crazy.
@ Anti-, I really hope you get a good financial aid package from TNS. I'm in the same situation as you with all my programs, especially Sarah Lawrence. I LOVE the program, the faculty is made up of some of my absolute favorite poets. Here's hoping for some scholarships. I've been looking around and also found that these unfunded programs list some sources of outside scholarships, so I'm going to do some more research into that.
@ Seth, thank you for posting that data about poetry positions in the past couple of years. Really sobering to see how many books and awards most of these new hires have.
I'm actually thinking now of rearranging my post-MFA plans... Very unlikely to find a university teaching job, but maybe I could do something else that uses my degree and involves teaching, at least until I manage to publish a book (hopefully!). Maybe I could work for an arts organization, or an organization that runs programs for young people in the arts... If I end up at Sarah Lawrence, they offer a lot of internships with organizations like that, so maybe with some work experience I could find some kind of interesting job while working on publishing my writing.
What does everyone think about job prospects after the MFA if you've managed to do a couple of internships or things like that while in the program?
@Laura T
Let me just say that applying for the second time, though no less an anxiety-filled adventure, is much easier logistically.
This year, I did everything in a couple days in October, as I had personal statements pretty much ready to go, I knew the drill on the online applications, and my professors (having already written their letters) were on top of things.
These programs aren't going anywhere, and your writing's only going to get better (and so give you a better chance at a good, funded program in the future).
If you don't get funding this year, I see your basic choices as facing a tough, unforgiving job market now without debt, or facing a tough, unforgiving job market in two years with debt.
Of course, if you don't think you'll be bothered by debt, go for it. But I don't know, paying off loans is no fun.
@ Laura T
If you can intern in some editorial role, you could be set up to do something in addition to CW once you finish, just in case teaching doesn't work out. (There also are non-university teaching at places like Gotham's in NYC, though the pay varies and usually they want you to be published).
If you're willing to write for other people - then any communication field would offer jobs post-grad. PR, grant-writing, web writing, editing, etc. There's always work for writers if you gain the right experience.
I've known writers who have gotten discouraged and left writing for other fields - including a Hopkins poet who is now an information architect - and some who have found a new passion for a secondary field. So,
In the end, it's just about what balance works best for you.
One thing that might be worthwhile is joining the Editorial Freelancers Association (I think there is a student membership). You might be able to pick up freelance work between semesters. Also, places like PopMatters.com are always looking for contributors - it's unpaid, but it helps build your portfolio.
It's hard not to stress. But take it from someone who couldn't afford to write after undergrad, went down the path of journalism/PR for ten years and now have returned to writing. You may do something else, but you never lose the passion.
Rejected from Johns Hopkins via mail today. Waiting for that Iowa one to come in at any moment.
*poetry.
International students and everyone else,
How long does it take to receieve your official letter if you're outside the states? This sucks for me because I can't go to the post office every day. Any idea?
Got my Writers' Workshop rejection today. I knew it was coming, but, as has been said before, it still stings. Also got a very, very cold rejection letter from The Normal School lit mag. So cold that I doubt I'll submit there again. Anyone have that experience with that or another magazine? You're only typing two sentences, why not make slip at least a modicum of kindness in?
@Laura T,
I know you're being bombarded with advice right now, but I wanted to second what k said. This isn't my first time with MFA apps. I was accepted to one (unfunded) program last year, but deferred to see if I could do better this year. I've been accepted to several programs, two with funding. What really changed wasn't so much my writing, but my personal statement, and therefore my own understanding of what I really wanted to get out of these programs. I felt much more informed this time around, did my research, and cast my net wider.
That said, weren't you accepted to Pitt? I found this interview from their journal, Hot Metal Bridge: http://hotmetalbridge.org/2007/08/new-mfa-week-an-interview-with-katy-rank-lev-on-the-topic-of-funding/
If you're intent on going this year there are options out there. It's just a matter of finding them and fighting for them!
good luck.
(FICTION)
1) Anyone heard from GCSU?
2) Anyone accepted to GMU hear about funding yet?
I was accepted to GMU on 2/16 and have received two seperate mailings from them. The second included detailed information about funding and how to accept/decline your offer of admission.
I've emailed Jennifer Stone my intentions (waiting on the funding process to run its course before I can accept) and she responded promptly to let me know she was updating my information.
After that, nothing. Now I know they are on Spring Break this week.
Anyone else?
~~J
Just talked with the admission coordinator at JHU. She told me fiction letters will be going out today/tomorrow.
EEeee.
Thank you sooo much everyone for the advice. I really appreciate how when someone on the blog asks a question, a bunch of people always jump in with suggestions and different perspectives.
Lipsha, thank you for sharing that interview! I did get into Pitt, without funding. It is great to know that there are other opportunities out there for funding if you are willing to fight for them. I also emailed the director at Pitt to ask about looking for alternate funding and I'm going to ask the other schools that have accepted me, too, if it turns out that I don't get funding from them.
k, thank you for your advice and insights... You are right that applying a second time would be easier logistically. I just don't want to be still here a year from now, going through the same panic of wondering if I'll get in -- I hate the waiting! But I'll have to ask myself if the waiting would be worth it if I need to wait for a funded offer.
G. Jackson, thank you for those ideas about other job opportunities for writers... I have done some journalism before and wouldn't mind doing some freelancing on the side for extra money, so I will definitely look into that. Poetry is my biggest passion but I do enjoy other kinds of writing as well, so maybe I will be able to find something...
I guess what it comes down to for writers in this cruel job market is that we have to explore all the opportunities that are out there, be persistent and flexible... I never thought I would step out of an MFA program and land in a tenure-track university teaching position, but I thought maybe I could go the adjunct or community college route. Now that even that route looks so competitive, I'm thinking of other options, at least other temporary options.
@ scout
has anyone been called for johns hopkins yet? for fiction i mean...
@ em yeu anh
I didn't ask. I haven't gotten a call, but that doesn't really mean anything...I also haven't seen any GNP/GNE for JHU fiction on this board yet.
ok! thanks!
@janet,
I was accepted at GMU for CNF, and I had a TA interview about two weeks ago. They told me they'd get back in about a month. Their system doesn't seem cut and dry--I think they weed through until they've selected candidates. So you could still be contacted for an interview if you haven't already.
I feel pretty in the dark about whether or not they'll offer me a position, but here's to hoping!
Good luck.
Big, fat, steaming DENIED from UNH.
I guess decisions (maybe only rejections) are up if you login to the blackboard site.
I'm 0 for 8, with three more to go and the horizon is dimly lit.
I hung my rejection letters on the wall next to my closet door so I can see them every morning, and whisper something like "You will not defeat me."
I'll soldier on, as we all will.
Just remember to write what you want to write, and not what you think some program might want. (I am trying to remind myself this daily). Maybe I'll try this again next year, and maybe I won't, but I do thank you all for being my invisible support system. Sorry I lurked for so long. Seems rude that I did, like I was spying on something I shouldn't have been privy to.
@Jake-Up
Sorry about UNH. I called them to ask about notifications and the admissions counselor was anything but helpful.
Did the rejection come via snail mail or online status?
Stranger,
May I also add, it doesn't hurt to call programmes to ask them how they deal with notifying Int'l applicants. I've called four schools, letting them know my situation (and that letters can take up to three weeks to reach where my address which would suck if one may be sitting on acceptances and waiting on said school but can't do anything until said school's letter comes by mail which could be waay in April which simply just isn't kosher . . . ).
Anyway, they've all been very helpful. One made a note beside my app that they'd notify me by e-mail as soon as a decision is made; two confirmed that for ppl living abroad they send notification e-mails instead of letters, and one even went ahead and dug up my status before the school was set to send out notifications.
Just be very polite and explain your situation succinctly. I'm sure they'll be sympathetic (and, believe me, it's comforting to know where you stand with specific schools).
G'luck :)
@Chelsea -
Actually, I found out by logging in to the "MyUnh" page. And it said "Denied" under status.
Here's hoping to some better news today for the rest of you!
Woke up to a missed call from "Unknown" this morning. No voicemail, no way to call the number back. Am going to pretend that it was one of my remaining schools calling to accept me. Would appreciate if everyone supported me in this delusion.
@Nikka-re
I'm in fiction too.
@Jake-Up
That sucks about UNH! So sorry to hear that.
My status on the MyUNH page still says "Under departmental review". Do you know if yours changed to anything else before you were denied? Also, what's your genre?
@Lipsha
Thank you for the information. I assume they would've said up-front if I wasn't even a candidate. The eternal waiting is maddening. :P
I know they are on Spring Break this week.
~~J
@Brittany
Consider yourself supported! Hope you don't miss the next big call ;)
One of my acquaintances got accepted to Johns Hopkins for fiction last week. I don't know the details, but do know he's in.
What do people think about Portland State? I've seen two acceptances in fiction, one in poetry, I think.
Any idea if they're still notifying for fiction?
Congrats on all weekend acceptances!
@Nathaniel.
I'm fiction. It had changed to "Awaiting Final Grad Review" last week, and then to "Denied" this morning.
do we know the situation in fort collins? i know woon got a phone acceptance but has anyone else got mail acceptances or rejections?
Regarding Arkansas- I've seen one fiction acceptance a while back on these boards, but nothing more. Anyone else notified/have any updates? Sadly, there's no online status page to visit constantly...
Also, accidentally left my cell phone at home today. Potential phone AND mail messages waiting at home?!?!??! Twice the exhilaration!
Really freaking out today. Want some answers.
Come one Denver U. (I know you are currently calling applicants!) and University of North Texas (I emailed both programs over the weekend... hoping for some sort of response ideally: yes! or ACCEPTED!!! or even, "Come give us hugs and kisses! We love you!"
Okay schools. Just tell me. Today please. I can take it.
Hoping for good news from Denver University and University of North Texas today. Of course, DU is my first choice, but I will take either at this point! COME ON GOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Coughdrop: EXACTLY!
@ UNH
I spoke with a very helpful assistant in the English Department on Friday and she said that final decisions will be made tomorrow, 3/9.
Got denied from UNH also. Ah well.
Am super curious how many applicants they got this year, so if anyone happens to find that out please let me know!
@ MJ and CSU
I spoke with Marnie Leonard the other day and she said the committee is still reviewing applications and to "please be patient."
Congrats to all the acceptances and hopefuls on wait list priority! I feel a little hope as people turn from despair at possible rejection to Woohoo! I got in!'s.
Wow, anyways I'm becoming totally neurotic, I subscribed to this thread and am checking it constantly every time I'm near a computer. I keep checking my mail box but no news, no emails either, and I heard of at least one UC Irvine fiction acceptance, I think? One more spot gone; I really, really desperately need this, and I didn't look properly into NYU and Columbia funding at the time so Irvine is my only viable option left. I also have been asked by my brother to come to the area to take care of my mother who has severe medical problems, but I can't do that without some sort of job, funding, or reason to stay...
Please, please Irvine, please God, someone out there, please give me some good news!!! I feel like I'm literally going crazy, which I'm sure so many of you understand.
@UNT Applicants I know that UNT has an MA instead of an MFA in creative writing. What attracted you to that school. I like Denton and everything, but I was just curious what about their program you liked. I was very close to applying.
@ L. Lewis
The woman I spoke with said that they made a "first cut" from 70 applications (I didn't catch whether or not this was in fiction or all genres combined-- I'd assume for the whole program, though) down to 30. Then she said they would be offering spots to 17 of those 30 by tomorrow.
Really depressed now that a JHU fiction acceptance has been reported.
That means only 4 of my 24 schools haven't yet notified any fiction applicants, as far as we know (Oregon, Virginia, NYU, Columbia). And 2 of those 4 schools I probably can't afford anyway.
Ugh.
has anyone gotten accepted into the poetry program @university of florida?
I got accepted to Portland State for fiction!!! Whoo hooo!!!!
@Chelsea - Congrats! That's awesome! Did you just get the call?
..I take it they're still notifying today.
@phillywriter
I'm right there with you. Completely depressed about the JHU fiction acceptance. For some reason, I thought if no one here had reported an acceptance, it couldn't have happened yet.
I too only have 2 schools left to notify...
Congratulations Chelsea!
@sahaider: UNT also has PhD in English lit with a creative writing dissertation option. One of my favorite authors is currently attending there. Plus, everyone from the program emailed me a response when I was initially checking into the school.
@Andrew Sottile
Thanks for the UNH info! I'm now going to hope that the lack of change in my online status is a good thing!
@ Chelsea Bieker
Congratulations!
Who called you? Did they say anything about funding? (I'm in for fiction too and I'm trying to figure out what's going on with the money, no official information yet)
@ Janet -
I was accepted to GMU and called Jennifer Stone last week. At that time, they were finishing up their first round of TA interviews and offering positions. Then they're moving on to the "second heat" of candidates, which Jen told me I would be included in. I would suggest giving her a call to see where you are on the list and make sure you can get an interview.
All is not lost. =o) Hang in there - hopefully we'll be seeing each other in the fall.
@weighswithwords- Thanks for the congrats! I got the call on Friday, or rather the voice mail! I was sooo happy!
@daniel- I haven't heard anything about funding, I just received a voice mail from Charles D'Ambrosio. I still need to call back to have a chat, but I'm very, very excited!
@Chelsea
That's cool. Keep us updated if you hear anything about funding. There are a few Portland State acceptees on here and I think we're all in the dark on the money subject.
How do you feel about Portland. Accepted anwhere else? Do you think you'll go?
hey coreyann, i'll virtually hold your hand if you call the program assistant at brooklyn today :)
man! doesn't SOMEBODY want me???
I was wondering if anyone else was accepted at McNeese, and if so, what are your feelings towards the university and the Lake Charles area?
I am trying to get a grasp of what exactly this position means and if people are going to sign on...
Hey Benjamin--
Shoot me an email: fixittuesday @ yahoo dot com
@Chelsea B (and Daniel)
Congrats on Portland State. It seems like we have something of a contingent now. All called by different people, too.
I'm going to start a story with:
"The punks down the street smashed my mailbox."
and end it with:
"Does it matter that I fixed the sky?"
I posted once before. But I didn't include my list at the time. Now that this year's application cycle is over for me, here it is. I applied in fiction and was rejected by the following five programs:
Brown
Cornell
Iowa
Stanford (Stegner fellowship)
UT-Austin (Michener Center)
A difficult row to hoe to be sure but I have no regrets as I'm very happy with what I'm otherwise doing with my life.
One final question: was there a very kind personal note on everybody's Iowa rejection? (I recall Courtney mentioning one too.) If the answer is "no," than perhaps my ego will be just a smidgen less bruised. If the answer is "yes," than there is even more proof that Ms. Chang is incredibly gracious and kind.
Best of luck to everybody in their current and future pursuits!
Woon. sometimes i want to cyberstalk you.
i mean that in a nice way.
and dv: i got my iowa rejection today. No note.
My Iowa rejection had a blush-red kiss print under the signature. Anyone else?
Hey guys, since there are no jobs and pretty much zero chances of there being jobs in our chosen field, I think we should all pack it up and forget about this MFA thing. Why waste our time on 2-3 years of a meaningless degree? The opportunity cost is just not worth it. We could find a good paying job in the business field and save a lot for our retirement while we're at it!
I want to thank everyone who's posted; your worries, anguish, and excitement have helped me realize that I'm not alone in this tough/scary process. Oh and Congrats to all who have made it somewhere!
Anywho, here's my list
Rejected:
Michener, Brown, Wash U, Iowa
Pending: Cornell, NYU, UC Irvine, Florida State, U Oregon, U Wash, Colorado State
Hopefully I'll receive some good news this week. If not, I'm sure I'll make it out alive. Good luck all!
I think as long as you know what the MFA IS and what it ISN'T, you'll be fine. But I suspect many don't know.
I'm going in with an open mind, soak in as much literature as I can, be supportive during workshop, and come out a better writer.
To hell with post-MFA jobs. I ain't lookin' for no stinkin' job!
@Woon
We are in agreeance.
@Wee Meathead -- Wow. Scary.
For us poets waiting on Irvine: My powers of inference tell me Irvine has to notify this week. Next week is finals and the week after is spring break.
Then again, who knows.
I just received an e-mail notifying me that I'm on a "short waiting list" for Indiana University in Fiction!
This is my first bit of good news from any of the 24 programs to which I applied.
Here's hoping that some of you Indiana fiction acceptees turn down your spots!
Yea phillywriter! Great news!
phillywriter,
Congrats and good luck, you never know what a waitlist will bring!
Lauren,
I'm late, but congrats on the NEOMFA! Good luck with funding.
Anybody I've fotgotten,
Congrats on any acceptances and waitlists I've missed.
Congrats to you phillywriter! You deserved good news!
Been rooting for you, philly--way to go!!
Congrats philly! We're all following you with interest
Woon,
Nothing is ever easy in a creative field. Competition is fierce for admission into MFA programs. Why would getting jobs/fellowships/residencies be any different? A degree in most fields doesn't really guarantee anything. It used to (a long, long time ago), but those days are long gone and apparently our parent's generation didn't pass us the memo. It's up to the individual to look for and create opportunities (if the desire is there to push forward).
@WT
"It's up to the individual to look for and create opportunities (if the desire is there to push forward)"
Exactly.
I got on that "short waiting list," for Indiana for fiction, too! I'm happy to have my first official good news, even if it isn't a full-on acceptance. Someone (kind of) likes me!
Just received an acceptance email from U Washington for Fiction (even though my application was for CNF)! Waitlist for funding.
Status list is now (all for CNF):
Rejection - Hunter, Wyoming, U Colorado Boulder, U Montana, UNH, Oregon State
Waitlisted - George Mason, UNCW
Have not heard - Columbia, New School, LSU, American, Vanderbilt
Accepted - U Washington
I e-mailed American over the weekend and got a response back this morning telling me that they had just finished reviewing my application and that my decision would be mailed this week. Of course I immediately assumed that meant I was rejected and the woman just didn't want to tell me in the e-mail. I'm going crazy.
Glad you guys offered a heads up about the fact that my Iowa rejection would be in my mailbox today. No note :( Kaybay, I so feel your dejection.
Another Iowa reject here (and no, dv, no special note from LSC).
I got on the waitlist at South Florida by letter marked 3/3. Did anyone else anywhere ever once maybe could have might have applied here or at least thought about it? I feel like I just got beaten out by invisible people. (Though, to be fair, Troglodytes also possible.)
@ Liz
Congrats on the Washington acceptance! It is strange that they accepted you for a genre other than the one you applied for. I see that you were rejected from Montana for CNF -- how were you notified? I have not heard a word from them.
Has anyone heard anything from Arizona re: CNF? Things seem quiet in Tucson.
@em yeu anh -- hang in there!
I wish MFA programs would let us know how far we made it in their process. Did we make it to the quarterfinals? the semifinals? the finals? Top 50? Top 25?
Aside from occasional hand-written notes (e.g., Courtney), it seems to be a mystery. So far, the only info we get is: acceptance, waitlist, and rejection. Many in the rejected column feel -- and rightly so -- that the MFA program doesn't like them (see, e.g., em yeu anh's declaration above). In reality, I think many people here made it quite far but just don't know it. (Of course, I have no data to back up my previous sentence.)
I look back in my high school years and all the crushes I had. Did Mia, Rebecca, Mary Jo, and Candy know that I had a "thing" for them? Alas, if only they knew...*sigh*
I’m not trying to put anyone down and stomp on your dreams but…
To the people who are complaining about getting cheap, form rejection letters from various MFA programs with no personal response, or are looking to get in "anywhere" to validate your writing talent: perhaps you might want to consider a line of work or vocation other than writing.
Because writing, at least if you do it with a goal of being published somewhere other than your blog, is mostly about rejection and/or indifference.
I’ve had over a dozen articles and essays published in the last few years, several in national magazines, but I can assure you about 99% of what I submit is rejected. Most of the time the publication I submit to won’t even acknowledge receiving my piece, let alone send me a personal note reassuring me that my writing is still wonderful and I’m probably a great guy.
When you do get a rejection it will almost certainly be in the form of a cold, impersonal form letter. In fact, out of the hundreds of rejections I’ve received, I can only think of a handful that consisted of anything else but a form e-mail or letter.
What, you think because you dropped a $100 on an application fee, someone at the school of your choice owes you a personal phone call reassuring you you're still special? Grow up. Seriously. Most people who work in admissions offices or selection committess are understaffed, underpaid, incredibly busy, yet dedicated to their work. Sort of like the editors at the magazines and newspapers who won’t be responding to most of your submissions.
I’m not saying that we don’t all have moments of doubt and discouragement about our work and our abilities—I do at least several times a week—but if you want to be a writer you’d better have belief in yourself and a hide like a rhinoceros. If you don’t, getting into the best writing program in the world isn’t going to do you much good.
That said, I really do wish the best of luck to everyone on this blog. Flame away if you must, but I thought this needed to be said.
@Dry Leaves
I have a feeling they did that because don't actually offer the CNF genre.
@Liz
When I saw your list initially I noted two programs on it that don't have CNF programs: Oregon and Washington. So I left those off the tally. I see now you mean Oregon State (which was my guess) and the Washington thing is now explained I suppose...
Congrats on your acceptance!
S.
I think it's useful information to know that I was #172 at Michener, for example. Out of 1,300 applications, #172 ain't too bad. Maybe if I had changed it from Third Person to First Person, I would've been #86? If I had deleted that limerick on page 7, maybe #49? I just don't know.
manlamancha72,
"Grow up"?
Cratty,
Thanks for your advice. Think I'm gonna do just that.
@Gena - lol, troglodytes. Also, congrats and good luck with moving off the list! :)
@Liz - congratulations on UW! Lots of my friends/family members went there (for undergrad/business school), so let me know if I can answer any questions! My email is: ede02005 (at) mymail (dot) pomona (dot) edu
GNP from SAIC.
Not sure if I'm accepted yet, but the incredibly nice woman I talked to said acceptances are going to be mailed out in about two weeks.
@phillywriter
Congrats. Your story was truly inspiring. I'm rooting for you all the way.
@PR/freelance people
I'm graduating with a BFA in TV & Film Writing. Any idea on where I can find these freelance gigs would be EXTREMELY helpful. I'm a crazy hard worker, so any place where I can type away at a 9-5 for a decent (or at least liveable. I can go without movies and new clothes for about another year, if needed) paying job would be nice.
I've done the online job hunting, and it's plain confusing. Some of the jobs are even two years-old!
I appreciate the advice given here. This is the only spot online where a writer can post a serious question without being shat on by some douchebag business or computer engineering major.
One final question: Is it possible to defer an acceptance to more than one program?
@manla
First off, I agree. I send out poems daily, and I receive rejections daily. I am yet to get rejected by a school, but I assume I will feel the same way when I do when a magazine turns me down:
a big sign, a sip of coffee, maybe a cigarette...and then I send some more out.
I am not certain that you had to take the route of saying everyone had to grow up and be more mature, but I get where you are coming from. These schools owe you nothing. If they truly wanted, they could probably just not send out rejections at all. If April 1st comes and you did not get a call, assume you were rejected.
So, I guess, be thankful that they even acknowledge you. I do not see a reason why they have to at all.
@manlamancha-I think, in the world of writers, simple, courteous rejections letters would be easy to write. Iowa's letter was, even without the personal note.(I didn't get one, nor did I expect one) However, I got another reject lection which was quite unnecessarily condescending. A form letter only needs to be written once, duplicated thousands of time, so why not make it courteous?
I don't really care about phone calls or personalized letters in fine embossed stationery with an impressive watermark. As for rejections, I've gotten plenty from lit mags so I'm used to them. In fact, I look forward to them and save them in my filing cabinet. I show them to my wife and, invariably, she says, "What dildo fuhcks!" Heheh. God I love her!
Thanks to all for good wishes :)
@dryleaves - Montana came through snail mail early last week. I think on their website they indicated that although they don't offer CNF, you could still study it there, so applying was a gamble that apparently paid off. Will let you know more as I find out!
@Seth - Thanks for the kind words! I literally quit my job Friday in online media analytics... today's news was lovely to hear that my gamble might pay off.
@Zoulou - you'll be hearing from me, appreciate the help!
Relax, manlamancha72.
A future full of certain constant rejection doesn't mean that those feelings of hurt and inadequacy have to be stuffed and denied. We're all nervous and are finding comfort in commiseration. I think it's been said before on this board that we lose too many artists to finding their desperately needed comfort elsewhere--drugs, suicide, retail jobs. Here is community--take it or leave it. We hope you'll take it.
@manla...
Bahaha! This actually made me laugh out loud in the office (thanks, I needed a chuckle today):
"and a hide like a rhinoceros."
-Amber
@Anti-
Have you seen this?
http://www.abctalentdevelopment.com/programs/programs_writings_fellowship.html
Also - Discovery often has TV writing/editing/production jobs, if you're able to relocated.
WGA-West also has this guide called freelancer to showrunner. http://www.wga.org/content/default.aspx?id=156
good luck!
Congratulations to Liz and phillywriter! (And to anyone else who heard over the weekend...)
Excited to get my Iowa rejection in the mail today. Really. Excited.
Don’t analyze the wording on your rejection. Come on, does it /really/ matter? Most everyone who gets into a top school or two is also rejected by multiple schools as well. That is how this process works. And if you don’t make in anywhere, keep trying. Don’t worry about what the letters say—it doesn’t mean jack. Hell, I’ve heard of people getting insulting and horribly critical letters from literary journals (this has never happened to me) and I would just ignore that too.
If it is a place that received a substantial number of applications, seriously, they are busy with other stuff too (like teaching and spending time mentoring writers who are already in their program). What Manlamancha said is basically the state of things. Yeah, it sucks that its all really challenging and such, but that is the way it is. I also have to second WanderingTree—it only gets harder from here on out. But that just means you have to stick with it and realize that it is an extremely hard process.
@Liz: Congrats on the U of Washington! Great program.
@PhillyWritter: Congrats on Indiana! Hope you make it off the wait-list!
@Gena: Congrats on South Florida. If you decide to go I highly suggest picking up a class with Charles Guignon in the philosophy department... he’s pretty amazing.
All Best,
Aaron
For all you Hunter applicants, I was unofficially accepted and just withdrew myself from the running. An excruciating decision, but I can't live in NYC. A spot has been freed up, so good luck to you!
i received a personal note on my iowa letter, and to be honest, it's a worse feeling than a formal cheap rejection.
and manla is just upset because he received eight NO, AND STOP WRITING PLEASE notes in his email inbox today.
:)
What Aaron Apps said (paraphrasing WT) about things getting harder from here on out is true. I thought that after college, I took my last exam. I remember telling my friends exactly this: "Maaan, I'm so glad I don't have to take another exam again for the rest of my life, ever!"
What followed was one exam after another: work, Professional Engineering exam, certifications, presentations to company execs, LSAT, law school, bar exam, GRE, now English Lit classes at an MFA program. Life is a series of tests: even maintaining domestic tranquility with the wife is a test. Now, as a writer, it'll be a test of perseverance and persistence.
Don't take it the wrong way, but I truly believe people don't know what perseverance and persistence means. (Not you people, I'm talking about other people.) I see it all the time. People talk about working hard, but they mostly goof off. Just lip service to "hard work" and "good work ethic."
I'm going to Borders now to get the latest National Geographic magazine. Interesting feature on wolves.
Bye.
Aaron,
I don't question the content of manlamancha72's post, but I do take issue with the way he(?) presents it.
This is the Simon Cowell (sorry) cliché of "telling it like it is." Wrong! People never "tell it like it is," whatever that means. They tell it like they think it is, a crucial difference with big consequences. People hide behind the TILIS cliché because it lets them be malicious and predacious and, consequently, feel superior. So when people like manlamancha72 (72 what? 72 windmills? 19...72? Who knows!) engage the TILIS cliché, tell people to grow up and steel themselves to harsh rejection letters, they are complicit in the unnecessary, inhuman aspects of the writing (and other media) industry.
I think we owe it to each other to be decent. A rejection is enough by itself; no need to add barbs and make it worse.
And I think it's presumptive to tell people who you think are bad writers what they'd better spend their time at. Let them write, don't make them feel bad. Relax!
I stopped watching American Idol near the end of the David Cook-David Archuleta season. I just felt icky.
Does anyone else here think that waiting list limbo is more stressful than waiting for a rejection letter?
Woon,
American Idol is awful, Simon Cowell is awful, and I still watch it with my roommates when it comes on because zeitgeist?
My parents called me on Saturday to let me know my official Alabama rejection had come in the mail. (I'm still at school in Canada.) So that makes for rejections from Alabama, Texas, and presumably Vanderbilt...I guess the universe doesn't want a hardcore Massachusetts Yankee to be a Southerner I guess! Although I am still waiting on Florida. I'm not too broken up about it. Rather, I'm not broken up about it at all. :)
My Iowa, Montana, and Colorado State presumed rejections are still MIA. And then there's NYU, Columbia, Penn State, and UVA to hear from. Man.
But I finally received my Naropa acceptance package in the mail so I have my actual letter sitting next to me at all times when I'm on the computer, which is always, so I feel a bit better. Hang in there everyone!
@G. Jackson
Thanks for the links. Checking 'em right now.
@BCapplicants
Did anyone get another FOE from Brooklyn (it's similar to the housing e-mail)? I think that's pretty much what I just got.
@Anti- and other BC applicants: word on the street (uh, from my email) is that they are still in the process of notifying accepted students and those on the waitlist. other ppl will hear via letter later this month. unfortunately, i have no idea where i stand on this!
@mj
Congrats! Maybe we'll both get admitted to Indiana off the waitlist!
I'm trying not to hold out too much hope for Indiana, but at least it's reassuring to know that I was at least close to being accepted somewhere. Fingers crossed!
Thank you to those who've sent along messages of encouragement. Best wishes for good news for all of us soon.
Hello all,
I'm writing to let you know that I just turned down my spot at Indiana University. It was the most frightening message I ever wrote (I wavered so long over the send button).
I have been sitting on this decision for a very, very long time. And there are several people on this blog I will thank personally for hearing me out as I went back and forth on this decision (e-mail coming soon). I will say though, that it's frightening -- very frightening -- when I think of what I may be passing up.
I understand that there are people who may be annoyed at my alleged "problem." I hope you don't construe it as whining. I mean, this is one of those life decisions and it was a big deal for me.
However, I saw today that there were people on here who received waitlist notifications (one person in particular whom I'm sincerely rooting for). That, more than anything, emboldened me to make my choice today. I could not in good conscience hold on to the spot for a sense of security knowing what I've read of some people's experiences and knowing they're now on the waitlist. A sincere, hearty good luck.
Phew . . . man . . . wow. OK, I'm going to bed.
@sabina
Thanks! I was about to go e-mail them, but I guess I'll hold off for a couple more days.
@ philly: thanks, and to you, too! go...hoosiers? oh, boy.
@dyij
thnx for yr inference on Irvine. Let's hope!!!
@ everyone
just got 2 missed calls from an unavailable #-- no voicemail. probably a wrong numner or telemarketer, but WTF
@Cratty,
Did you decide then where you're headed?
Wow, Cratty. Thanks so much for coming to your decision about Indiana so quickly. Whether I'm the affected waitlist individual or not, I'm glad that your decision will bring good news to someone out there.
I knew you were one of the Indiana admits, and that you had also been admitted to Virginia Tech. Thanks for all the support you've given so many of us on this blog, and I hope you're truly happy wherever you end next year.
cratty: YOU ARE MY HERO. even if i don't get your spot, your integrity is totally above and beyond. i can't say that i would have the same bravery as you, in that position, so my hat's off to you. remind me where else you got in?
Also on the shortlist for Indiana (fiction). Good luck to us all!
@Janet
I emailed Cloud Spurlock today to ask about my funding chances at George Mason. He said it is unlikely that I will receive funding.
I'm crushed because, aside from Houston, GMU was my top choice. Now I seriously doubt I'll be able to afford it. While I do have some savings, it'd only cover a year of tuition and no living costs.
So, come on Houston! Give me a call. :)
@pdg and mj
I wonder how short Indiana's "short waiting list" is?
I hope Cratty's spot goes to someone on the MFA Blog. Although I suppose there are probably many MFA Blog lurkers who are just as anxious and hopeful as we are.
Cratty,
I am not sure what you are going through (do not follow this blog regularly), but I wish you good fortune with your pursuits. You seem quite an honorable one!
@phillywriter
I asked, and it's not their policy to reveal that information, and I can't blame them.
BUT
As they offer 6 spots each genre per year, I do not think it would be a ridiculously long waitlist. I think this is something to be proud of. I am glad to have my first good news!
thanks for letting us know, cratty.
i'm also wondering just how short the indiana "short" list is. i received the email too (fiction). i'm crossing my fingers.
@pdg, mj, and inkli_11
So, I guess there are at least four of us on that waiting list. I'll try to temper my hopes. But the list can't be that long, with only 6 admits, so I think we should all feel that this is a great thing even if we never earn an admission spot. Congrats and fingers still crossed!
GODDAMNIT I just got a call from a 212 area code (New York City), and I was convinced, CONVINCED it was a school.
...It turned out to be a broker.
And now I can't stop shaking.
And forgot to say congrats to the recent acceptances and waitlists!!!
I feel like this is one of those happy things that comes out of such a forum as this MFA blog. I'm honored to be amongst the three of you on this waitlist, I agree that it can't be a terribly long one, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens and truly wish everyone the very best.
@phillywriter
@mj
@pdg
I also got the "short waiting list" email today from Indiana -- except I'm poetry.
@Cratty
I've got mad respect for you right now for your early decision-making prowess. Best of luck wherever you're going.
@ M. Swann: I agree with you. I do think that a bit of the same “TILIS” directed in a positive direction rather than a negative one (which is what I tried to do) isn’t such a bad thing. I’d rather people had an idea of what the future generally has to offer the writer and to give them some positive advice on how to go about navigating through those challenges… (what they do with the advice is something I have no control over)… rather than, say, letting them unknowingly spend 100k on a useless degree and having to deal with oppressive debt for the rest of their lives.
@Cratty—Good luck!
& Congrats to all the Indiana wait-listers!
@ All: It ain’t over until it’s over (another cliché)—but I know that I won’t be able to decide on my top two programs until I visit later this month (same goes for a lot of other people). I think this tendency toward multiple applications is going to amplify the number of acceptances on the tail end of this process. So don’t give up unless you have a rejection letter in your hand. Good luck everyone!
@ philly
YES! I hope Indy works out! Defintely got my fingers crossed.
@ M.Swann
I'm applauding you from my office (quietly, so as not to disturb my office mate). You captured my sentiments exactly, and articulated them better than I could have. You even included an Idol analogy. Ahh.
The way I think it is: Whether one has a thick enough skin or not to be an artist is a truth to be discovered for ourselves, through experience. I thought that post was smug and unhelpful.
I resent a stranger's implication that I (or any writer here) may not be cut out for the tough writer's life simply because I exhibit some frustration over this intense process. I've seen sadness and even anger expressed here, but never to an unreasonable degree, and I don't think anyone has sounded entitled - far from it.
Thanks peeps, especially Zoulou and Aaron.
Congrats to the Indiana waitlist, and good on Cratty for decision making!
No word from ASU or VTech yet, huh?
Just looked on Speakeasy blog...lots of people got their rejection letters already! i wonder if that means mine is in the mail too...
LMAO...nevermind! I was reading info frm April of 09!! *deep breath of relief*
I just removed myself from the running at Sarah Lawrence, and was told that they have just made their final decisions. I was accepted, but cannot go there due to financial issues. So a new spot for someone else! I assume they will announce soon. Good luck to everyone.
@Cratty: envy you, that you could make a choice. Don't second guess yourself with too many what-ifs. (And it's a genuinely tough call to make, it's not whining) Congratulations!
@ all acceptances and waitlisters, congratulations!
I'm in Indiana visiting right now. It's unbelievable. I'm still waiting on a few schools, but no matter what else happens, I'm reasonably certain I'll be coming back here when the time comes. Cratty, good for you for making a difficult decision early in the game. I'm sorry I won't be seeing you this fall.
@Emma
what genre for sarah lawrence?? i'm hoping not fiction...? as far as i knew they hadn't notified for fiction yet. was that right?
Hey all --
my best friend plans to pursue an MFA in art (painting, specifically), and we were wondering if there are any forums like this out there for art MFA applicants.
There seem to be very little resources in general pertaining to art MFAs, so any guidance would be must appreciated!
Thanks so much!
(also -- @Other Emma -- as you make all these decisions -- keep in mind -- if you decide not to attend Montana -- your funded spot goes straight to me! Just sayin' ;) Although honestly I would love to be in a workshop with you.)
CONGRATULATIONS to everyone who's heard good news. And to those who haven't, I am rooting for you all the way.
@Jasmine
What genre are you?
Also...would you mind sharing some more thoughts on Indiana (i.e. the faculty, the school, the town, etc.)???
Ok, I need to say my goodbyes, so this will take a while (sorry for the long post). I'll start with news:
-I called Notre Dame and found out that I was not admitted. I don't know if they have notified all of their acceptances, but something tells me they have (who knows about waitlists).
-I called Florida State and all of their acceptances have been notified, leaving only waitlisters to be notified anywhere between now and April 15th (she said they were unsure of who they are waitlisting). Since I doubt people who get in from the wait list receive funding, even I am waitlisted at Florida State, I would likely not be able to attend due to finances.
-I will call UF and UNCG tomorrow and share any relevant news received from them. Since UF has already notified and UNCG has sent GNEs, I am taking that to mean I am also not admitted there.
-Received the rejection from Iowa, no note from Chang (so kudos, Courtney! ;) )
-That makes me 0-10-1, the one wait list being McNeese State.
So, I've decided to unsubscribe to this blog and only check it periodically to see where you lovely people get accepted/waitlisted. Since I'm pretty much done, there's no need to check it as fervently as I have been doing. I'm going to take a break from writing for a while (I know, against advice), do a ton of reading, and relax. Then start writing again. I need to focus on my work a little bit more considering I will likely be returning (I'm going to be applying for jobs like a mo fo in the next few months though, so hopefully I don't have to return to my crazy-ass school. Maybe I'll have the pleasure of teaching elsewhere, yay!).
I need to say that you guys have been really cool during this whole process, something I did not expect. Thank you for your kind words, encouragement, and emails. There are some talented writers here and I'm super happy for those whose talent has been recognized. For those yet to receive acknowledgment, I'll see you next year ;)
Cheers! And CONGRATS!
@kaybay-
Your presence on this blog will be missed. Good luck on your future plans, whether that means teaching, a new job, or McNeese/UF/UNCG.
Kaybay, don't completely give up hope yet. But I understand your need to step away from this blog for a while.
Good luck with everything - and hopefully you'll hear good news soon and will share it with us here.
If not, I have a feeling many of us will be applying again - so maybe I'll be talking with you again next year.
But no matter what, don't give up on your writing!
@ kaybay: totally understand the taking a step back. still crossing my fingers for some good news for you though.
@kaybay - Totally understand. I've read every post on the last four mailbags and it's overwhelming. Good thing I don't like my current job!
I'm crossing my fingers for you and the rest of us!
re: UNH
ok sorry to be completely panicky, but those of you who called the English department, did they say anything about poetry vs. fiction? My blackboard info only says they received my application, it doesn't say it's under review or anything.
I feel sick.
@Kaybay,
I'm so sorry you won't be hanging with us. But I do, of course, understand. I am still super super praying you get in at McNeese or Florida State!
Please share what UF says if you call them. I am pretty darned sure they're done notifying though. I didn't know Florida State was done notifying -- Thanks for that (depressing) bit of info. Ugh!
One thing about Florida State's waitlist though. I heard they cut the size of their program, but that they are now funding 100 percent of their students. So if you were to get in off the waitlist, you'd be funded. I read that somewhere a while ago. I think.
You've been an awesome companion on this journey Kaybay! I will miss you here. Take care.
Old Poet,
I'm fiction. I just got here in time for dinner last night and I spent all morning today with faculty and students. The director, Samrat Upadhyay, is a really nice guy and we talked a long time about all sorts of stuff including options in the program and diversity within the program and travel and classes. I attended a class led by Tony Ardizonne and then went to a meeting with the students who teach his discussion classes. Tony is a nice guy, seems really passionate, and all the students I've met are really cool and really helpful. I haven't explored Bloomington too much; I took a walk down the main drag earlier (today's the first day of nice weather according to the students, and it's not just nice, it's absolutely gorgeous) and it's full of funky little shops and a lot of restaurants and stuff like that. There's a lot of stuff going on right off campus in that area that I haven't checked out.
The campus is truly beautiful (I went to undergrad at Binghamton University, a great school with an ugly campus, according to some. I always used to defend it because it seemed sufficient to me, but, well, it gets blown away pretty easily) and GIGANTIC in a way I wasn't necessarily anticipating. I mean I knew it was big, but not quite this big. It's a huge sports school with a lot of Greek life, but I'm reasonably assured that both those elements are easily avoided if that's your wish.
Generally everything I've encountered has been really positive. The faculty and other students seem really involved and supportive. Tomorrow I'll attend a workshop and meet more people, and then there's a poetry reading, so I'll go to that too.
It's been an excellent visit. I have nothing bad to say at all.
@Kaybay--you will be missed! Good luck with whatever you do and wherever you land!
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