tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post1863457199691525633..comments2024-03-28T02:14:08.783-07:00Comments on THE MFA BLOG: What Are My Chances?Tom Kealeyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11913868167191023096noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-80596876476960517822008-10-23T11:10:00.000-07:002008-10-23T11:10:00.000-07:00Julianna, thanks for the information. David, I'm a...Julianna, thanks for the information. <BR/><BR/>David, I'm a 25 year old professional working in the finance industry. I graduated from the University of Chicago with a BA in Political Science and have been putting off applying to an MFA program for the past few years. I feel like my sample is ready as it will ever be, and I am applying this fall. Due to the current financial atmosphere, I assume that applications to professional graduate programs (MBA, JD) will be more competitive this year, but I wonder how much of that will trickle down to arts programs such as the MFA? It's just something I've been thinking about.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13358674123646419650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-71629472731644280572008-10-19T18:48:00.000-07:002008-10-19T18:48:00.000-07:00Thank you, Julianna!Thank you, Julianna!Michellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02548865688162196183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-28165781158831268282008-10-19T10:00:00.000-07:002008-10-19T10:00:00.000-07:00Julianna, thanks for taking the time to post. Aski...Julianna, thanks for taking the time to post. Asking a potential future mentor in an MFA program to read your story was a pretty ballsy move. I'm glad it paid off in this case. But your experience drive home the point that there's really no way to accurately estimate our "chances" of getting in somewhere. With so much of our applications riding on our writing samples, and writing being such a wide art form, it's no wonder the end result can be inconsistent. But I guess that's the only way to do it. <BR/><BR/>Thanks again,<BR/><BR/>DavidDavid E. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09169209383111744552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-2665146238955947072008-10-18T11:07:00.000-07:002008-10-18T11:07:00.000-07:00Julianna's story really hammers home the importanc...Julianna's story really hammers home the importance of casting a wide net. It also reminds me how amazing Fred Chappell is--both as poet and as novelist (for me, Joe Robert Kirkman is one of the greatest characters in American literature). I almost attended UNC-G even after he retired, only because I heard he still hung around the Program sometimes. But I digress. <BR/><BR/>It's impossible to know just how competitive one will be as an applicant unless he or she actually takes the risk and puts the work out into the world--whether that comes in the form of applying to MFAs, submitting to magazines, or even just handing it off to a professor. If you feel confident enough about your work to take one of these steps, that's evidence of something worth nurturing.<BR/><BR/>-LJLuke Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01485195273934420368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-70973389672203347472008-10-18T10:40:00.000-07:002008-10-18T10:40:00.000-07:00Andy,It's just a policy that many schools maintain...Andy,<BR/><BR/>It's just a policy that many schools maintain, undergraduate and graduate. They keep your application in order to preserve materials that could be used the following year -- many rejected applicants apply again, gaining admittance -- and the schools could also use the materials as a comparison, to see how you've grown as a candidate.<BR/><BR/>If you're unsure, then ask the schools. <BR/><BR/>MikeMike Valentehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05655671939237508024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-87118387495973156412008-10-18T10:04:00.000-07:002008-10-18T10:04:00.000-07:00Hey, I'm going to answer this question as the Asst...Hey, I'm going to answer this question as the Asst. Director here at FSU but also as someone who's gotten an MFA and been through the UNWIELDY process.<BR/><BR/>It's subjective. Highly subjective. And that's not a bad lesson to learn this early.<BR/><BR/>I applied to about six programs back in the day. I got into my (by far) top pick and my (by far) fall-back -- and NONE in between.<BR/><BR/>In the process, I did something I shouldn't confess to. ESPECIALLY not here. I only really wanted to study with one person in the country. (This theory of choosing is roundly discouraged in the current home-page blog.) It was Fred Chappell -- who's now retired. If nothing else in the entire process, I wanted him to read a story of mine.<BR/><BR/>I wrote him a letter, stating this.<BR/><BR/>He wrote back. He told me he was only one voice in many, but that I could send a copy of the story to his house. I did.<BR/><BR/>He wrote back that he would vote yes. And I got in.<BR/><BR/>I don't suggest this route. And yet I went there. I worked with him -- learning a lot from other profs and fellow students. And Chappell is still a mentor -- a man I honor as one of our literary greats. <BR/><BR/>The process here at FSU is subjective -- as subjective as it is anywhere.<BR/><BR/>A group of faculty rank order the applications -- samples most important. We take into consideration the work that WE feel that we can take to the next level. Our tastes range wildly -- regardless of our own personal writing styles.<BR/><BR/>And so you can't know if you'll get in. And if you don't, it DOES NOT mean you're not good enough.<BR/><BR/>I have a lecture -- an interactive one -- in which we start with a pie chart of what goes into a successful writing career. I ask the students. We start with a HEAVY dose of talent -- 80-90%. But by the end of the class, we end up with about 5% talent and the rest persistence and ability to bounce back ... Seriously. <BR/><BR/>I suspect this is of no use.<BR/><BR/>But there you have it.<BR/><BR/>All my best,<BR/><BR/>Julianna Baggott, Asst. Director Creative Writing, FSUJulianna Baggotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824381589931882874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-25019649117858032422008-10-18T05:00:00.000-07:002008-10-18T05:00:00.000-07:00Mike-How do you find out if they do; is it within ...Mike-<BR/><BR/>How do you find out if they do; is it within their rejection letter or do you have to contact them about it?<BR/><BR/><BR/>-AndyAndyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05860477735105114346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-21015762945650377682008-10-17T07:50:00.000-07:002008-10-17T07:50:00.000-07:00Interesting convo! I guess you never know until y...Interesting convo! I guess you never know until you try. I remember when I applied in '06 I was told by one person I had no chance, he was a writing instructor and turns out, after some digging, he had been rejected twice before getting his MFA, so I chalked it up to sour grapes. Yet, even a writer who wrote my rec said, "IDK, it's so hard"<BR/><BR/>Yet, I got into Bama with about 11K TAship. Then I felt I wasn't ready, turned it down, and am set to apply again.<BR/><BR/>The point is - don't listen to others, listen to yourself. If you think you're ready, try. The worst that can happen is you get a 'no' this year and are out the few hundred bucks. Then you know to work on your writing for the next year.<BR/><BR/>Friends may say you have a chance to support you, or say you don't, but only you can say whether it's worth even applying.Victoryahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18256314171695734487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-9604983464336329292008-10-16T22:29:00.000-07:002008-10-16T22:29:00.000-07:00Andy,Many schools (if not all) keep your applicati...Andy,<BR/><BR/>Many schools (if not all) keep your application on file in case you re-apply the following year. So if you do go that route, most likely you'd be able to re-submit a new writing sample, using the materials from the previous year -- GRE, Letters, Transcripts.<BR/><BR/>If you do receive a rejection, then it's probably the writing sample that you'd want to re-submit. <BR/><BR/>MikeMike Valentehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05655671939237508024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-15815787993254331412008-10-16T15:49:00.000-07:002008-10-16T15:49:00.000-07:00Andy, you really shouldn't think that. If the peop...Andy, you really shouldn't think that. If the people recommending you actually back you up and think you're a valid writer (which they better or else why are they agreeing to write your recs?), then they won't mind recommending you the next year. And frankly, they can probably use the same rec since your relationship with them probably won't change that much (from an academic stand point anyway).Portraits of Portland...https://www.blogger.com/profile/01900572780019332843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-84764432115401975132008-10-16T00:58:00.000-07:002008-10-16T00:58:00.000-07:00I'm also worried that if i don't get in anywhere, ...I'm also worried that if i don't get in anywhere, well, I don't know if I would have to ask for recommendations again/if my professors would have a copy of mine. I'd really feel like an ass if I made them write two for me because I didn't get accepted anywhere the first time around.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05860477735105114346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-11268991934339868512008-10-15T15:00:00.000-07:002008-10-15T15:00:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.King of Eggplantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02701868928068307951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-2986878108515580092008-10-15T10:59:00.000-07:002008-10-15T10:59:00.000-07:00gypsy girl makes a good point. if you discover aft...gypsy girl makes a good point. if you discover after a round of apps that you're not ready, you can always wait a year and try again. OR if you feel you need to get vetted a bit, turn to any writer-friends or acquaintances you know and ask for feedback about your work. Their comments may shed some insight for you...Thousand Fibershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06572603870595803951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-16122890626349567982008-10-14T18:11:00.000-07:002008-10-14T18:11:00.000-07:00I like to think about it from the stance of: what'...I like to think about it from the stance of: what's the worst that could happen? <BR/><BR/>The worst that could happen? You lose a couple hundred dollars on application fees and the GRE. Everything else can be retrieved really--the time you spend on your manuscript (stories that you can then try to publish), time you spend studying for the GREs (is knowledge ever bad for a writer?). The worst that can happen = not that bad.<BR/><BR/>And the best that can happen: you get in, you write your book, you publish it and you live happily ever after. Like Cinderella. Sort of.Gigihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09199129765216390246noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-53966802045874735572008-10-14T17:12:00.000-07:002008-10-14T17:12:00.000-07:00Continuing on the subject of measuring writing tal...Continuing on the subject of measuring writing talent against other applicants---I started to think about whether a selection committee would value great polished writing from a writer with a lot of formal writing training or slightly less controlled writing from a writer with raw talent who may have lots of potential. Just curious. Maybe both kinds of writers have much to offer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-36364203561482598422008-10-14T13:25:00.000-07:002008-10-14T13:25:00.000-07:00I completely agree. I've been on and off about se...I completely agree. I've been on and off about sending out my apps (my recommendations already went out, I almost feel like a fool for not just doing it already) and even with the support of some very respected professors in the writing field I still don't feel even close to being ready. I'm only 20 years old and graduating this spring so I feel like I don't have the life experience but I can't wait to do this because the loans are piling up already and if I get out of school I won't be able to get back in with the debt that I'd have to pay back. I can't help but assume that there's always 10x better than me (this could be because my school didn't really have a writing program until this year-- so I've never had people to compare to that I know). I guess I'm glad it's not just me, I just wish I knew what other people's applications and essays for the schools looked like to know I'm at least relatively on the right track. As Zola said, I asked a close professor, and even though most of my schools are top ten, he gave me the "you'll get in somewhere... trust me" speech. However, I can't seem to trust him until I have an acceptance letter. The stress is unbearable.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05860477735105114346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-64331594366982054072008-10-14T13:19:00.000-07:002008-10-14T13:19:00.000-07:00blu, thanks for the advice. I suppose both of the ...blu, thanks for the advice. I suppose both of the questions I presented in this thread have to do with how I'll fit in with my potential colleagues. Your experience is encouraging, because like you, I'm taking what seems to be a round-about way to seeking an MFA. I don't have an undergrad in English; I did city and regional planning and am currently half way done with a masters in public policy. (Yes, it feels like my soul is slipping away.) <BR/><BR/>I went to U of Minnesota's MFA website and it seems that the vast majority of their candidates have a literary arts background. Since I'm far from having that kind of background, I want to make sure I'm going to offer a competitive application and also, that if I do get in, I'll be in a place that's good for me.David E. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09169209383111744552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-51722735498718128492008-10-14T13:08:00.000-07:002008-10-14T13:08:00.000-07:00david,I am a 36 year old single mother of an 11 ye...david,<BR/><BR/>I am a 36 year old single mother of an 11 year old daughter. I live in Philadelphia where there really are no MFA programs, thus my choice to do low-res.<BR/><BR/>I didn't finish undergrad. I did two years at Temple University. I started off in Electrical Engineering, believe it or not, and then, hating that, went on to study random things while declaring African American Studies as my major. I left after two years and eventually transferred to NYU where I did a year in the Gallatin School of Individualized Study focusing on Arts and Education.<BR/><BR/>My professional background is primarily community education, with some of those ed opps being as a writer in residence. Always in these residencies I was hired as a poet, although I'll be studying creative non-fiction at Bennington.<BR/><BR/>I workshopped for several years with a group of talented writers, most of whom were poets. Although I almost exclusively workshopped poetry in this group, it was those experiences (and my reading life) that most strengthened me as a writer. These workshops took place for about 5 years I guess, and began in the early 90's. The writers in that workshop were quite exceptional, and I lucked out in that regard. Almost everyone has now received their MFA in poetry and fiction. They studied at various schools, including Brown, Columbia and U of Oregon. At least two are currently faculty in MFA programs. Most have won many and prestigious awards for their writing.<BR/><BR/>There is my background, my education. It illustrates, I think, the fact that a writer is developed in a variety of ways, and not specifically in BFA programs. As for me, I loved, engaged, and <I>engaged in</I> word work since I was six, but had noone to direct me toward a BFA program. I was smart, as most writers and creative people are, and was therefore directed toward law, medicine, actuarial science, medicine. But my passion won over, and my relationships with members of a writing community showed me that a career as a writer is possible. It not a formal education, but those relationships, and my relationship with books that, (knock on my old wooden head), give me "a chance" in the career of writing. <BR/><BR/>I believe you should just apply. Get that feedback and use that to strengthen your manuscript. If nothing else, the response to your application will to some degree give you the answers you seek that non of us on this blog can really answer anyway, about your work specifically. And I agree with Lincoln, include programs you would give your left ass cheek to study at (as individuals who sit at tables and computers all day in pursuit of our passion, we value our ass cheeks). <BR/><BR/>Toodles!Bluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00661631161943108812noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-34520601389224419712008-10-14T11:40:00.000-07:002008-10-14T11:40:00.000-07:00I think that everyone should shoot for the stars, ...I think that everyone should shoot for the stars, at least a few of them. Put the programs you most want on your list. <BR/><BR/>How to tell if you are good enough is a hard question. I think the best way is to actually submit your work to literary magazines and see the kind of responses you get? Your competition pool and the judges are probably somewhat similar... your friends, undergrad classmates and perhaps even undergrad teachers might not have the best grasp of what grad schools see. <BR/><BR/>Of course, if you are applying this year it might be too late to do that. <BR/><BR/>If you have friends in MFA programs, as someone else mentioned, they could be good judges. <BR/><BR/><BR/>But again, I'd shoot for the programs you want the most. You will regret it if you don't.Lincoln Michelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17753693348052339982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-26105428753142713472008-10-14T09:51:00.000-07:002008-10-14T09:51:00.000-07:00Well, David. I am a Senior getting a BFA in Writin...Well, David. I am a Senior getting a BFA in Writing. I have applied to five MFA programs so far. I'm 26, a veteran, and feel that I am ready for an MFA program.christopherleemileshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07645563073763307265noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-67644036986677756042008-10-14T09:38:00.000-07:002008-10-14T09:38:00.000-07:00On another note... I've noticed that some people o...On another note... I've noticed that some people on this blog automatically assume those interested in an MFA have, or are getting, a BA in English, and are coming from a workshop writing environment.<BR/><BR/>It would be interesting to see some information on who applies for these programs and where they are in their academic or professional careers.David E. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09169209383111744552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-25007035831751733702008-10-14T09:11:00.000-07:002008-10-14T09:11:00.000-07:00Eggplants, while I agree with those words to a cer...Eggplants, while I agree with those words to a certain extent, I also realize that we ALL need to "know"--all writer's need recognition. That's why we're here.David E. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09169209383111744552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-72791213990140631382008-10-14T07:58:00.000-07:002008-10-14T07:58:00.000-07:00I think it was Ted Berrigan who said "If you have ...I think it was Ted Berrigan who said "If you have to know, don't do it."King of Eggplantshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02701868928068307951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-59979151835622664432008-10-13T22:26:00.000-07:002008-10-13T22:26:00.000-07:00i agree with jenny, if you're going to gauge yours...i agree with jenny, if you're going to gauge yourself, gauge yourself against the writers you probably know best on the craft side of things, i.e. your fellow workshoppers. it might help put things into perspective. even if you do that though, the next question is inevitably: "well, how many of them actually want to be <I>real</I> writers" or alternatively, "how many of them are going to be applying to MFA's."<BR/><BR/>it's hard to think in those terms. i think that, as with writing, you should just work with what you know. as for me? i just read and write a lot. this helps bolster my confidence and, i suppose, a necessary sense of entitlement you need in order to be balsy enough to apply to programs with such low acceptance rates as mfa programs. in this case, the entitlement is not the paris hilton brand, but rather a sense that you've earned the right to attend one of the mfa programs you're applying to. it all boils down to confidence because, short of asking every contributor on this blog for their prospective writing samples, there's no way of knowing the "skill set" or "talent level" of your fellow applicants. and that's the easy part, the hard part is gauging how mfa faculties will receive you work--a far murkier and mysterious enterprise if you ask me. i say if you're genuinely secure and (better yet!) confident in your writing, then go for it. as much as i think about it, that's really all i can come up with.insertbracketshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07980404937296101384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15642985.post-67745307137293439122008-10-13T18:32:00.000-07:002008-10-13T18:32:00.000-07:00Zola, I appreciated your words about the passion w...Zola, I appreciated your words about the passion we should feel about our own work. I think I've achieved that. I'm starting to write pretty much exactly what I want. If that means that it's good, then great. Hopefully that's the case.David E. Grimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09169209383111744552noreply@blogger.com