Don't even get me STARTED on the BSC. I was obsessed, and still have all my old books. I also read all of the Baby Sitter's Little Sister series, though I felt like a nerd for doing so. (Fourth graders were, like, SO beneath me.) In fact, Ann M. Martin did a signing at my local book store! I fantasized for weeks about what I would say to her, and exactly how I would communicate that we should be BFFs and that I loved her books in a way that no one else understood...but when the time came to meet her, I hid behind my mother and didn't say a word. She signed two of my books while good ol' mom told Ann how much I loved the BSC. I also loved the terrible, terrible show on the Disney channel.
Aaaaand now I'm going to go read "What Claudia Wore" for hours instead of doing my laundry.
I once had workshop in which a guy wrote horrible, scatching comments on every single person's stories. He wrote on one story of mine that he felt insulted when he finished reading it. And the majority of the time (we discovered, after comparing notes,) he told people their stories had nothing salvagable, and his advice was simply to abandon the pieces. In class he would rant about other students' "lack of clarity" when none of us could even begin to understand what his own stories were supposed to be about -- he purposely made things mysterious and convoluted as if the lack of readability in his pieces were proof he was smarter than the rest of us. Suffice it to say everyone hated him, and the only way we knew how to deal with his comments was to laugh at them.
So, um, I went to the dentist for a toothache, had a sudden root canal that was so mystifying the dentist called other people to come look, then declared it the only root canal he's not been able to do in his entire career, filled it up with stuff, then set up an appointment for me to have an emergency root canal done at a specialist tomorrow. I've got a container of vicodin in my hand and a whole lot of Buffy to watch.
This kills my GNE-induced good mood.
And, @Alyssa
Those people are vile. I can't believe they'd be so crass as to post that all over the internet. I feel your frustration; I have had similar classmates.
Oh man, I've missed some good stuff today. The 80's and 90's reminiscing is amazing! I can't believe that there hasn't been more Jonathan Taylor Thomas (JTT!)discussion, though. I watched "Home Improvement" every week because of that sarcastic cutie. I also spent most my allowance on TigerBeat and Bop magazines, mostly for him. Anyone else save any of their old MASH games from when they were younger? I found some not too long ago and got some great laughs. My life has not turned out as planned...
re: BSC, i was completely obsessed and i also love that claudia site. there is actually a BSC prequel coming out this spring/summer, focusing on the girls before they started the club. there was a big article about it and ann m. martin in publishers weekly (i think).
@courtney: yes, the way they handled the jessi thing was baffling. i think i'd started to grow out of the books by the time she was added, but i was so excited they finally included a character who was a person of color. yet it seems it may have been better to just leave her out. :)
You said something a while ago about people just not understanding that writing is "real", that for a writer it is something that he/she essentially HAS to do. And I just want to acknowledge your comment and say that I share your frustration. I feel like few people outside of the writing community understand this concept, that writing has POWER and MEANING and for the writer it is a way (the only way, perhaps) of understanding the world, of understanding life. They look at writing (or any kind of art) as a sort of fun, little hobby, but it is so much more that that! And I just don't know how to explain this to people, particularly to my loving parents and sister who, in an effort to help, keep trying to come up with alternative "plans" for me and encourage me to do the same. And I just want to scream at them, "But you don't understand!! I HAVE to write!!"
Ahh, sorry, I'll stop my ranting. I just wish I had a way to explain this concept to people...
There was a very pretentious, dick-ish guy in one of my workshops who would basically just cross out entire pages of people's stories, including mine, and circle random sentences that he would mark with a kind "Keep this." He also never made positive comments in class. I tried to bring it up one day- not naming this guy, but the idea that we should point out positive and negative things, and to keep in mind that this class was INTRO to fiction writing. People attacked me for being too sensitive, so I just shut up.
If someone in workshop is going after someone else vindictively, your instructor should step up and put a stop to it- but if he/she doesn't, don't be afraid to do it yourself. We've all written things that suck, and read really terrible stories written by others, but attacking someone is immature and disgusting. I'm not saying we should sugarcoat things and pretend that something terrible is brilliant to avoid hurt feelings, but come on- there's a way to be tactfully honest.
I have such workshopping stories that I don't even have the will to tell, they're so negative. Just this: some people have to make themselves feel better by putting everyone else down.
I've never had other students be dicks in workshop. Definitely had some holier-than-thou types in my lit classes though. I did have one teacher in the grad program I just finished who would text on her phone while other people were workshopping instead of listening. And she also told one woman that she was a terrible writer and never should have been allowed through college, let alone into grad school.
On a different note, as we move more into the realm of TV heartthrobs, can I get a shout-out for Jared Leto in MSCL, anyone? Or what about Blossom's bf, David Lascher?
yea, i have had an experience much like amanda's. i wasn't really given too many dicks in workshopping, but there were plenty of pretentious, self-righteous, "one day the rest of you might catch up to my brilliancy" types. le sigh.
In general, I've had nothing but good experiences. However, there was this one time, my story included ONE reference to Holden Caulfield (a negative reference I should say, one character essentially warning another "not to be Holden"). The story was not about Catcher/Salinger and yet this very cynical, extremely quiet person in my workshop chose to dismiss my entire story because they thought that all young writers should follow this arbitrary rule they designed for themselves to not write anything related to Catcher/Salinger (ie snarky teens, youth in general).
Other than that though, really cool people were always in my workshops.
In my intermediate fiction class, there was this one guy who always criticized every story. His criticisms were sometimes fair, sometimes not, but he didn't have anything nice to say about a single person's work.
Then one day, one of my stories was being workshopped. It wasn't my best work, and nobody was talking much. It was getting to the point of being a little awkward, because the teacher for that class was pretty bad, and didn't talk much himself. I look at overly-critical guy, and he's got his head tilted back, nose straight up, and he's asleep in the middle of workshop.
I was really mad! I felt like he had used the worst possible insult he could think of for my story, that it was so bad he couldn't even be bothered to stay awake to critique it.
Then a few days later one of the other students told me that kid actually had narcolepsy. So I felt kind of stupid.
I have written more than my share of harsh criticisms in workshops, and brought up the issues in class - but I NEVER once did it in a malicious way. That is classless and shows a general immaturity and disrespect for the workshop process. These people may be fine critics, but they will never make good teachers or productive workshop members because they don't respect the process at all.
Some people view the workshop process as a strong vs. weak gallery. Like a reality show where someone is going to get voted off, and as long as people are bringing in weaker stories, then they are doing well. These are the same people who will tell you quickly why they didn't like it, but not use a single specific. If something didn't work, then you should be able to show me why ON THE PAGE there is a problem. You need to directly deal with issues in a productive way.
If you get a very direct and specific criticism about your work, then you can do something with that information. General criticisms do absolutely nothing.
Every time I've had to critique a story that wasn't very good, I spent at least twice as much time on it as a story that was good. Because I felt a responsibility to help the author out in determining what was working and what was not working. I know that when I brought a story to class that had serious issues, I would want my classmates to do the same for me. Tell me it had serious issues and work with me to identify them and find ways to bring what was good (but maybe hidden) out and find solutions for what wasn't.
And the hidden thing is important, because 90% of the best stuff that you write is unintentional. It is VERY important to show people what you like for that reason. They may not have planned out connections, good verbiage, or even great situations - and if you don't tell them WHY they work, they will get cut in the next draft when the author is trying to fix problems.
I think it is very important not to coddle people in class (that just shows a lack of respect of them as an author), but to be outwardly hostile to someone and give them no positive feedback is an insult to everything a writing workshop stands for.
For the most part I’ve stayed away from blogs this year. I continued to take advantage of the invaluable info that Seth (and others? don’t want to short others but I think it’s mostly Seth? Thanks for the millionth time Seth) has graciously compiled. But for my own sanity and productivity I decided to apply, let the chips fall where they fell, and I’d find out when schools notified by actually being notified by them rather than having my heart pricked 1,000 different times with each reported acceptance.
Not criticizing anyone who's on here - it's a Wonderful community, it can be a healthy reminder than others are going through the same thing, and in fairness, if I was still at my terrible desk job, I'd probably check this blog 20348 times a day like I did last year.
I’ve been reading/enjoying the blog since hearing from some schools, and since I'm in procrastination mode, I want to say that everyone – accepted or not - should keep their heads up. No one should feel badly about themselves or their writing if they strike out.
Some disappointment is inevitable, I get why people get down - if a law school rejects you, that sucks, but it’s really a rejection of your LSAT/GPA/resume. An MFA rejection is more personal – it’s your art, your craft, part of who you are.
(Also, most people here are likely “the writer” in their circle of friends. So of course all your friends say, “you’ll get in somewhere! You’re the best writer I know!” And you say: “Thanks!…but no, really, odds are I won’t.”)
And you’re right – odds are you might not get in, especially if you’re applying to less than ten schools and they’re all top twenty. Sucks. But it doesn’t mean you’re not a good writer.
Vivian wrote, “I thought I had a great shot at the schools on my list (all top six) but I'm slowly starting to realize that my optimism was somewhat naive, though I still stubbornly cling to the idea that I have talent and potential.”
I don’t think anyone short of insert your favorite author here has a “great” shot at getting in to the top six MFA programs. It’s definitely possible that you (A) have lots of talent and potential and (B) also had a minimal shot at the top six writing schools, which accepted at most 5%. Those rates are INSANE, getting rejected says a lot more about how tough it is out there than it does about your craft. All it possibly says about you is that you might not be one of the 150 best unheard of young writers in the country (there are obviously a ton of generalization and assumptions there, among them that you can judge what writing is “best,” and that MFAs can do this accurately, and that people applying are young unheard of and American, but whatever, you get my point). It would take a lot of hubris to proclaim you’re one of the 100 best unheard of young writers, right? (and I mean you/me/everyone, I’m not calling out Vivian or anything ridiculous like that.)
Rationalizing what on some level we all know helped me feel better. Maybe it doesn’t work for everyone but hopefully for some. I don’t think I’m one of the 100 best young unheard of writers. If I want to be, I’d better keep working at it like hell (I think noono has the right idea about using rejections as fuel for fire). Bottom line, please make sure you’re knifing though the disappointment and remembering the ridiculous odds against you (and what would being an artist be if the odds weren’t against you). If you’re on this website, you care about this, are committed to it, and have some level of talent. Keep writing, and apply again next year! And congrats, obviously, to those who were accepted! Sorry for length.
Re: Workshop nightmares - I'm feeling incredibly lucky right now, since I'm never had the kind of experiences so many of you have identified (on the other hand, I tend to expect the worst, so I'm always pleasantly surprised when people don't hate my work). I thought I would share one of my favorites, though.
In workshop with a very established, super-badass poet as the instructor, a very sweet, very quiet girl's poem is up for discussion. It's midway through the term and this girl has written some really nice stuff, but always squeaky-clean in content and with a lot of religious overtones (nothing wrong with that - I write poems with religious themes/subtext, occasionally). Basically, she's very meek and very conservative - about 5-foot-nothing, 90 pounds of harmless, adorable Good Christian Girl. Instructor looks at her poem, which is about the myth of Danae and the shower of gold. Instructor looks at the girl.
Instructor: So... it's about fucking, right? Girl: * blood drains from face *
* silence *
She eventually responded with admirable composure about 2 minutes later.
I just realized I should specify that the instructor was in no way trying to deliberately freak this girl out - this is just how he talked, and she hadn't really been on the receiving end of it yet. His confusion at her reaction was one of my more memorable workshop moments.
If I remember correctly from previous posts, you and I went to the same school for undergrad. If that's the case, I may or may not know the poet professor you're talking about. Would you mind emailing the name to me? I'm just insanely curious, but I don't want to call anyone out publicly.
Taking this momentary lull to send this out. If you're looking for a smaller cozier distraction, come join the MFL Limbo ning group. We've got open discussion forums on recipes, our lists, rejection letters, samples, bios, videos, Plan B's, getting back to writing, books, conferences, music, and more. Email me for the invite. mandasue at gmail dot com.
Morgan, I called U of Washington last week (as phone practice/favor for the blog, I didn't apply there lol) and they said that poets could expect to here this week while fiction writers should hear next week. Hold out the hope but I don't think you need to call.
Ashley Brooke called Washington last week, I think, and they said they would be sending acceptances out around next week. So don't give up hope! I don't think they've finished (or even started for fiction).
Just checking in to ask anyone who's willing to and hasn't already -- and no pressure here, of course do it only if you want to -- to let us know where you applied...? I know there have been a lot of newcomers to the board in the last week, and as there hasn't been an official "call" for application lists recently some folks might not know that there are those of us (and definitely me) who find this data not only interesting but extremely important and useful as well.
Fiction: University of Alabama (presumed rejection) Iowa writer's workshop UT Austin (Limbo) LSU Brown UC Irvine Miami Florida State Cal State, Long Beach Cal State, San Diego Cal State, San Francisco Cal State, San Jose
I was hoping for an acceptance before I posted this little meow, but here goes.
13 programs for fiction:
Northwestern (rejected [hard]) Iowa (assumed rejection) Cornell (assumed rejection) Michigan (assumed rejection) George Mason (assumed rejection) Florida Columbia College Chicago UNLV Virginia Commonwealth Colorado State Boston University NYU Johns Hopkins
I applied to most of these programs for the sole reason that I had two short stories totaling 40 pages, and I read it wasn't a good idea to send only one story. I'm beginning to regret that decision because I didn't really want to apply to so many top tier programs. Such is life.
I've started checking this blog fairly regularly, so I should contribute to Seth's data! Don't ask me why, but I only applied to two programs (for a PhD in poetry): Houston and Denver. Good luck all!
I have such mixed feelings about this blog. Part of me thinks it's absolute poison, since I am so stressed out that my jaw aches from grinding my teeth and I think I'm getting an ulcer, but it's also extremely informative and full of great people. So, god, what do I know.
Anyway, very well, list. Fiction.
UT Austin -- rejected. Wisconsin -- rejected. Michigan -- rejected. Montana -- accepted!!! (I ♥ you Montana)
... yet to hear from: Iowa -- presumed rejection. Oregon Virginia Brown Houston
- Emma (not LA Emma. I'd give myself a nickname but I'm emotionally spent.)
UT-Austin ("DENIED") UMass Amherst Irvine NYU Columbia U Iowa Michigan Oregon Wisconsin-Madison (shortlist) Stegner Fellowship Montana Syracuse Virginia
BTW - is anyone else totally freaked out about next week? I think I'm going to crawl into a hole. EVERY single one of those schools is scheduled to notify in "early March" except for UNCG, who knows when they'll notify. But still, it's a bit nerve wracking. It's either going to be a great week, or a very, very bad week...
Every single one of the schools I have left, at least...
Also btw, I talked to the McNeese director and he told me that he would only accept people he can fund (he said he could only take THREE per genre this year, yikes!). So, that does mean that if I get off the wait list, I would get funding. So, I will hold on to it. Thanks all :)
Heard from- California College of the Arts (accepted) Waiting on- CalArts CSU Long Beach Brown Boston University Hunter (starting to assume rejection) Brooklyn NYU
McNeese (accepted) Virginia Tech (waitlisted) Texas State (rejected - went for spring '10 enrollment) UNCW (rejected) Wyoming (rejected) Syracuse (rejected) Arkansas Hollins Vanderbilt Idaho Colorado State Montana
American (rejected TWICE) Texas (rejected) Wyoming (rejected) Vanderbilt (assumed rejection) Indiana University (assumed rejection) Brown UVA Hollins Florida Montana California College of the Arts University of Washington
Andy, how did you find out from UNCW, is that just an assumed rejection?
Also, I was meaning to ask this for a while: I've been accepted for one school here in the UK, and it's really good etc, but it wouldn't be my first choice, but I havn't heard anything from any other college, if I only get in to this school, should I go, or wait another year and re-apply? I feel like a fool because I only applied for 4 colleges in the U.S( iowa, uncw, brown, nyu) OUCH, ha!
So, I gave up lurking a while ago because it was making me anxious, and when I came back I realized that the task of digging through the thousands of new postings was too daunting. Please forgive me if this has been previously answered, but I couldn't tell from the DH timeline. Has Vanderbilt poetry actually notified, because it's not posted on DH, just fiction is. Also, any word from Michigan or Arizona State about whether they've notified people on the wait list yet? I'm grasping at straws here...
Everyone is posting their lists, so I'm posting mine, even though it's been posted before and Seth should for sure have it by now. I just want to show everybody my collection of rejection.
Rejections: Wyoming Syracuse
Schools that have already notified others that I don't want to call "assumed rejections" even though it's not looking so hot: UNCW Montana Southern Illinois Virginia Tech Iowa
No News: Kansas Penn State Texas State Georgia College & State University Brown UNLV Florida Atlantic University
Happy to help any gathering of statistics, although I bet you could get better data through a controlled poll on your blog (or, better yet at P&W). I've applied to fiction MFAs at
Iowa (accepted) Cornell UMass Amherst UMichigan New York University New School Montana Virginia CUNY Brooklyn CUNY Hunter Columbia Johns Hopkins Rutgers@Newark
I'm assuming rejections at Cornell, Michigan and UMass (and maybe Montana now, apparently?), but I haven't heard anything official.
@Woon Completely agree. Princeton, I'd be an undergrad again for you after the 2008 AWP readings.
Applied (poetry): McNeese Alabama Purdue IWW Montana Michigan Texas Austin Texas State San Marcos UNLV Minnesota UMass Illinois Urbana Western MI Wyoming
I hear from UNCW because I emailed them and asked for a status update. They had indicated to me in a prior email that they had hoped to make me an offer (!) but it turned out I fell just shy of an offer in the end. That was a really tough rejection, but I have to say that the UNCW faculty sent me some extremely thoughtful conciliatory responses. Of course, what happened to me has no bearing on where you stand with them, though, so good luck!
Hey y'all. Newcomer. Going to start jumping in on this blog every once in a while.
Applied in poetry to:
- University of Iowa - University of Notre Dame - University of Kansas (Rejected) - University of Michigan - University of Minnesota - University of Illinois - Purdue University - Washington University, St. Louis (Rejected) - Southern Illinois University - Bowling Green State University - Western Michigan University - Indiana University - Northern Michigan University (Accepted) - Minnesota State University, Mankato
Your story with UNCW is my worst effin' nightmare, dude. I'm currently sitting on a GNE (with no other acceptances thus far) and I don't know how I would handle it if I called up the school I have my GNE from and they said "well, when we sent you that, we really wanted to make you an offer. but as we looked through the rest of the apps, it turned out you didn't make the cut."
I had hoped that it just wasn't possible for programs to be this insensitive -- I.E. they wouldn't send good news your way if there was a decent chance it wasn't going to pan out. But your story proves it can and does happen. Which terrifies me, but most of all I feel really crappy for you. That must have been such a bitter pill to swallow. My heart goes out to you.
I'm holding out hope that Montana's not done notifying. According to them, they accept double the incoming class, so I'd think if they've already accepted 44 people we would have more than three on this blog. Anyone? Bueller?
I too have mixed feelings about this blog. Much of my time spent browsing around here would have been better spent writing new stories, but nonetheless, it has been a great resource and a supportive community. Thanks to Seth and all the others involved.
Here's my final list:
UT Austin (rejection) Wyoming (rejection) Cornell (assumed rejection) Montana Oregon Arizona Boise State Colorado State San Diego State Portland State New Hampshire Central Connecticut
I'm hoping to hear some good news soon; congratulations to those who already have.
Thanks for the sympathy. And yes, that was a bitter pill to swallow, although nothing washes down nasty medicine like a good solid gin martini. Or three.
I should say - and maybe I'm just being naive, or optimistic about the inherent goodness of the human race - that I didn't get any indication that I was the victim of a bait and switch, or of malice, or even incompetence. When UNCW emailed me saying that they hoped to have an offer for me soon, they still had weeks left to go before winding up their application process. As far as I can tell from this blog activity, that process is still ongoing. And UNCW's fiction class is super small this year. So I think the bottom dropping out on me with that program was one of those awful things that honest-to-God just HAPPENED.
But, if someone else out there knows something about UNCW that I don't - something more, eh, sinister - then hey, I'd really rather not know about it now. That ship has sailed and my energy would be much better spent crossing my fingers for success with the rest of my outstanding applications.
But anyway, thanks again for the good wishes, and best of luck to ya.
Hi Seth, I can't remember if I posted this and it's too far back to find where I might have. BTW, just wanted to thank you, again, for what I believe is an incredible and invaluable service you are doing. Here's my list, Iowa Oxford Bennington VCFA Warren Wilson Pacific University Fairfield University - Accepted Carlow University - Accepted
I doubt anything 'sinister.' My GNE also didn't make any promises. It was complimentary, flattering, encouraging, etc. But at no point did it say 'it's just a matter of time 'til we admit you' or 'we promise that you're going to get admitted.' Much like yours, it indicated there's still quite a bit left to do in their office.
Nonetheless, I'd like to think that MFA programs, knowing at least a little bit about how crazy we applicants get, would be extremely cautious about sending any sort of encouragement to an applicant before they have a clear picture of that applicant's admissibility. Just because there's always a chance that said applicant applied to 25 schools, this is their 3rd year applying, and that they don't have any other prospects. The potential to make a really crushing defeat that much worse is just so huge when you send out the kind of communication you got from UNCW, so while there's certainly nothing sinister about what they did, in the context of the MFA admissions process, it might lack a certain amount of appropriate caution.
I'm glad you have another offer, though. That certainly makes it a little less difficult.
well, i'm in a terrible mood, so i'm not perhaps thinking as clearly as possible ...
but what's the purpose of sending out a GNE, if it's not yet an acceptance?
and more to the point, what's the point of sending out more GNE's than the number of offers you plan to make?
Are they simply trying to see if anyone is going to say "gee, thanks, but I decided to go somewhere else?" and if so, do people actually upfront do that, especially so early in the game?
I don't know if I posted my full list yet, but I will do so today. Purdue dropped today, so it's almost game over for me.
I have come to accept that I'm not ready for an MFA. At least, I wasn't when I sent everything away in November. As I worked to revise some of the works I've created lately, I removed the shrink wrap, and the feeling I got was like waking up next to a lover and realizing I'm not in love any more. Or perhaps waking up one day and seeing an entirely new color, never before seen or named. I was too cautious in what I sent in, and it just plain wasn't good enough.
All of this is a good thing. Realizing what I have, I can kick the poems out of bed and get them the help they need. I see the novel color in my new work, and now I can paint more of it and/or add it into my older works. I'm the kind who grows in my writing through leaps and plateaus. I've made a leap since November, and I'm very, very excited. In the next few months, I'm going to concentrate on kicking ass and taking names. I'm thinking about when not if I go to a program.
The future holds a reprogram of my application list, probable list and portfolio consults, and lots and lots of writing about things I love. I have three semi-major efforts underway. Someone mentioned getting a group of could-have-beens together to workshop. My poems and I are ready. I'll leave my email link active in my profile.
So unless some miracle happens or Bowling Green happens to think that what I sent doesn't suck (or lots of people ahead of me drop off and a program gets desperate), I will bid you all farewell until next season.
My list (Poetry):
Rejections: - Washington University in St. Louis - Syracuse
I'm with you. I think it's a pretty dubious practice in some ways, though I'm not exactly an MFA admissions expert. If I don't get in at my GNE school, it will be the toughest rejection of them all for the reasons you mentioned.
Seth, if you read this, would you care to weigh in? How do you feel about schools sending out GNEs not attached to any specific offers, well ahead of making their official decisions? Especially in cases where it's entirely possible the students receiving these emails won't get in?
I really don't feel comfortable talking numbers on this here forum. Sorry. That's not to demean everybody else here who talks numbers, but I'd just rather leave the numbers to Seth and avoid potentially putting myself in an awkward position somewhere down the road. I will say this, though: I wouldn't read too much into what a smaller enrollment means.
Thanks re: McNeese, though! (That goes for you too, Dreux.) Having another offer does alter my perspective about things. (Sympathy to everyone who's stilling waiting for good news. I was in your shoes last year, and I not so fondly remember how difficult it was.) I had a good working relationship with McNeese during my college debate career, and I sense that their MFA program is JUST on the brink of receiving the attention and respect it deserves.
My mom actually said this about McNeese to me the other day, "Ugh, I really wish you didn't have to go to that dinky little college JUST so you'll be in school next year." Holy crap, I almost turned into the Incredible Hulk. Luckily for her, Mom just got a stern talking to. :) Gonna go with the Fresh Prince on this one: parents just don't understand.
It IS a frustrating practice! I could *almost* understand it if it were a school that for some reason of another couldn't make offers til late in the game, and perhaps was a mid-ranked school: say, they have four poetry slots, and they want feelers to see if the four people they want to admit are still interested in them, or if they've already heard from schools they're more interested in.
But GNE's coming so early ... late Jan/early Feb, and especially coming to people that are ultimately not admitted at a school that notified in mid-Feb their first-round folks, it's just ... weird. It sounds disorganised or like its an unthought-through process. i don't know.
Good call, Andy (about your Ma). In my book, any program that takes itself seriously not only to be sure to fund everyone they admit, but to give every single one of them crucial teaching experience, is not 'dinky' in any way.
in fiction: UNCG NC State NYU Brown Oregon CSU ASU LSU Florida Iowa (assumed rejection) Michigan ('JECTED) UT (DENIIIIED) Vandy (silence/'jected) UNCW (I've heard nothing, so... that's not good.)
well, what I figured is not confirmed. Went to the Iowa Isis website thingy and the status is not officially changed to: Not Accepted.
I think I like that wording. It's kinder than "rejected" or even "declined".
(I'm CNF, by the way, so this doesn't have anything to do with you IWW poetry/fiction folks)
Also: watching LOST on Hulu RIGHT NOW. Without giving any spoilers, I have to agree with whoever it was earlier who said the first 3 seasons were the best. I'm kind of waiting for this season to do to me what the first 3 did...
Nadia, Season 6 is really good so far! Stick with it, there are a lot of answers. LA X was an iffy episode but I think once you get to "What Kate Does" you'll start to get excited again! I loved seasons 1 and 2 (I think 2 was my favorite) but 6 has been really good so far.
Andy, I couldn't agree more with McNeese, and not just because I'm waitlisted there. I love the admissions process, I've seen some good work coming from alumni (umm, hello, Best New American Voices), it's fully funded, you can get a M.A. alongside your M.F.A. (thanks Courtney). Faculty is great, seem really student-centered and down to earth. I think the only downsides are location and reputation, but I agree with you, I think it's only going to move up. It's a good "sleeper" program.
A number of people have been asking about UMass and where they're at in their notification process.. I don't know for sure, but it seemed to me when I talked to them that they're done notifying for Poetry (I have no idea about Fiction).
Thing is, you might be able to find out for yourself. On their website, my status has finally been updated to, "Accepted" which means that even if you're in status limbo, you might not have gotten in.
Wish I could give a more definite response, but this is just my inclination..
I certainly don't endorse this very-MFA-related-link, as it's extremely politically incorrect, possibly offensive... but found it to be about the funniest thing I've read/heard all day.
I'd really like some sort of explanation for these GNE's. It makes zero sense. Here's a comparison I'd like to draw, feel free to call me an asshole: for undergrad, I got the Dartmouth "early letter." Translation: they sent me an acceptance in mid-February, telling me to sit tight, that I was 100% being offered admission on April 1. Dartmouth (and other schools) do this because it shows the applicant that they love him/her. If said applicant has applied to other places as well -- as most super-stellar-applicants would -- it makes Dartmouth/school X stand out. "Aw, isn't that nice? They LOVE me! Yay Dartmouth! God, I love Dartmouth!" (please note: I took the much more cynical/why-the-fuck-are-they-sending-me-this approach)
ALSO, it gets the accepted student thinking pro-Dartmouth, while the other schools are still big scary question marks.
With these GNE's, that's clearly not the case. In Andy's case, and in Dreux's most-feared case, these GNE's are absolutely evil, in my opinion. Can someone give me some sort of history of these things? Would someone be bold enough to post theirs? (At this point, I'm semi-hoping this is just one huge prank, b/c I haven't received one. Also... see next paragraph)
@ ALL UNCW FICTION PEOPLE so, basically, for all of us who haven't heard anything, we're out. If Andy didn't get in, ain't none of us other patient/confused people getting in. Done and done.
Oh, I never said congrats to all the acceptances/waitlists today! I'm still slightly confused, but congrats to the Emmas, or the one Emma that got accepted (?)
I had previously posted a dude-speak version of mine, and will revisit it:
Dear Applicant Dude,
Your writing sample was totally rad! Know what else is rad? Our program! And the town we're located in! Call us up, and we'll hash it out, brah.
So, it was basically a complimentary email about my writing, inviting me to call up to ask any questions I might have.
It was definitely not in any way indicative of an official acceptance, and in my follow-up correspondence with the school, they let me know they're still working on final decisions.
So it's definitely very different from what you got from Dartmouth, and in the case of Andy's experience meets my worst fears, potentially pretty evil if you look at it in a certain light.
Because, those of us who don't get them assume that then we're not in the running at School X if someone got one, and we didn't; (note that this could be someone in a workshop at my school got an email, doesn't imply posting about it on a blog is bad.)
Which then leads to the (highly individual to various schools) question of what sub-group of applicants gets GNEs?: is it only the top couple of applicants, whose notification might take longer because the department has decided they're SO RAD they should go up for a uni-wide fellowship? is it a group of a bunch of promising manuscripts, of which a subset will be accepted (as it seems happened at UNCW, eek!), or is it just the people with cool 'writerly' names that some bored office temp decided to abuse one day?
Alabama (Likely rejection) Arizona State Colorado State Florida Illinois (Likely rejection) Michener (Rejection) Minnesota (Rejection) Syracuse (Rejection) Wisconsin (Continued state of neither acceptance nor rejection...shortlist?)
you're lucky I'm fluent in dude-speak. okay, that gives me a better idea of what we're talking about... it still sounds pretty evil to me (I would probably translate an email like that into a sort of marriage proposal from school X). That said, I hope Andy's still around, b/c I'm wondering when they sent this to him... he said a few weeks ago, right? B/c I know that the UNCW grad school sent my (and lots of others') final apps over to the CW department at the end of January (ours were the "incomplete" files when the original, main batch was sent over from the grad school). There's a good story behind that one, but it'll have to wait. Actually it's not that great of a story. Nevermind.
So... man oh man. Sorry, Dreux, I just went back and re-read you and Andy's entire convo again (I think I was distracted by my high-pitched "whaaaaaaaat?!?!" the first time). I agree with your last sentiment, that it seems unorganized and weird and .... whatever. I hope your school, Dreux, has handled their GNE's the right way, and that they're humping your leg soon. In that adorable puppy kind of way.
Right now I'm wishing that I had applied to schools that notified early. I'm kinda a basket-case at this point. Hence the story about my Dartmouth early letter. Just kill me now, dudes. Guuuh.
Hi -- I'm new here. I've been trying to pretend this waiting is not happening so I'm only looking at this blog about once a week. Anyway, here is my list, in CNF:
American George Mason Georgia College and State University Memphis LSU West Virginia
Not a whisper from anyone (unless you count GCSU saying they want transcripts for the high school courses that I was given college transfer credit for in 1978. I somehow got through two undergrad degrees and law school without it, but I guess I'll have to try to track it down for them).
Thanks, Seth for all you do -- your book was a life saver.
@ Seth Applied in fiction to: Iowa Michigan NM State CO State Purdue U of Washington UNCG Oregon State Illinois Southern Illinois Arizona Wisconsin
Also, for all the poets out there, I ran across this article today and found it interesting: http://chronicle.com/article/The-New-Math-of-Poetry/64249/?sid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en
Re: bad workshop experiences. I'm lucky that there have only been a few bad apples in the four workshops I've taken (2 undergrad, 2 grad). One guy would write one sentence of praise and then unleash two pages of single-spaced vitriol. He even ripped up another student's piece in workshop once. The thing was that he wrote really really bad high fantasy, so no one spared him when it came his turn to be critiqued.
I also had a (I suspect) teabagger flip out on a story of mine (the one, incidentally, that I sent to programs this year) because I had a fleeting reference to someone who could be slighlty homophobic having a W bumper sticker on their car. I mean, it took up less than a line, and she ranted about it (though not to my face; I didn't see it until I read the written critiques later that night).
Personally, even if I really dislike a story or it's chock full of bad grammar, cliches, etc., I can find a way to be constructive. Of course, I thought everyone would be able to do that. Apparently, I have underestimated the human race. Sigh.
At a workshop I did in intermediate fiction writing in Boston - a lady in her forties seemed quite authoritative and had her nose a bit up in the air. And when she spoke she had this thing about being very very intellectual and she spoke slowly with pauses which got people totally mad. I mean we thought she had finished saying what she wanted and then again used to continue talking... she never really even smiled back at me and finally in her comments on my story she murdered it.She marked almost every sentence and gave comments like - what does this mean? 'Oh God I am losing it now! 'I no longer believe this is happening'....'I don't even want to read this'..it made me feel like shit as it was my second class in an alien country and whilst everyone else was really supportive and encouraging she totally tore my confidence. And then my proff in our conference later said he loved the story and the wriiting style but because it is a workshop he didn't openly appreciate it!!! So I guess it's totally fine if people don't like the stories infact I'd love some constructive criticism but this woman was kind of vindictive without even really knowing me at all....
I just remembered this story that my mother told me and that I had to tell myself right now.
There was this young man and this mountain. There was a path up to the top, and for years he toiled and worked his way up there, and finally after a long time, he reached the peak. He looked down below and he saw a great view, and also 100 other paths leading up to the same place he was standing. Some looked easier, and some were blocked or difficult to pass through. And then he smacked himself on the head for seeing only that one path.
Teabaggers love Nevada--we have the second lowest tax burden in the US (just behind AK). Which is why we (NV) are in the financial mess we're in. 'Nuf said.
@Daffron my proff is currently a guest lecturer at Iowa he is one of my recommenders do you reckon I should write to him and casually ask. I thought it was a bit out of line to do so but I'm so done waiting....still wondering...
You're right - I think everyone is in pretty bad shape these days. It's just frustrating for me that my state is consistently at the bottom of any kind of good ranking and here we are cutting more money from Medicaid, higher ed, etc. Anyone depending on any kind of social service is pretty screwed in NV. Though education gets screwed, too.
Seth: Thank you for everything. My list for poetry.
University of Washington- ACCEPTED-no funding!! Oregon Portland State University Alaska Fairbanks Western Washington University (MA) Idaho Montana Wyoming-rejected Texas-Austin-rejected Iowa University of Victoria (BC)
I don't turn 22 until September. How's that for young? :o) I graduated last month and have already entered the corporate work force, but other than that I am essentially applying straight out of undergrad.
Wisconsin Irvine Illinois Minnesota Alabama Florida State Indiana Michigan Washington U St Louis (waitlist) Iowa Oregon State (accepted!) Florida Vanderbilt Mississippi
I should also add that i researched the programe a year and a half ago, then things got freed up so i could do a full res rather than a low res programme, but i think everything i said is still true. hopefully they have more funds info now, though. :-)
@koru, thanks so much. that's really helpful. I was a bit worried about the attention to student thing as their website states that all of the work is done independently between residencies. So that answers an important question. I have an EU passport, (Irish) so the program (even with travel from the states) ends up being cheaper than any other low res program I've applied to. They notify on March12. Again, many thanks.
Does anyone care to comment/muse on the current situation for George Mason in fiction (or in poetry). I know there are at least a few acceptances that have been posted. But, I also know that it is a large program and I feel like there would have been more acceptances posted here if they finished as long ago as they have appeared to (a la discussion regarding the program on this blog).
I think it's risky. Maybe there will be news soon. It is hard to believe they're all done with so few reporting acceptances, but all has been quiet this week. Hang tight--I'm so hoping for some great news for you soon!
I'm a relatively new follower of this blog; love the intrigues that are exchanged. Here's my list in poetry:
St Andrews (denied) Edinburgh Michigan Mills Brown Toronto Stegner
I actually had a GNE experience with St Andrews, unfortunately to then be rejected. The surge of hope it brought on only made their refusal much harder to bear. Ah well, so it goes.
@DFW I actually called George Mason yesterday (I think it was yesterday) to ask. I applied there in CNF. They have the absolute nicest woman answering the phone for graduate English. She knows who I am now, too. Anyway, she told me not to worry, that most of the applications had been read, but not all. And although they had made a few acceptances, they hadn't finished, and were still reading.
Hope that helps. Not a lot to go on, and for all I know she could be leading me on because I'm rejected. But both times she's taken my name and checked the status of my application. I tend to trust her because she's really kind.
OH! And DFW I forgot to say that they told me that (at least for Nonfiction) they hoped to be notifying by the end of the week, although it's possible that they'll be pushed into March. I'm taking that to mean that we'll know SOON.
Is anyone thinking about applying to some additional programs with later deadlines? I actually am not aware of any except BU (3/1), and am now considering that option, though it looks like the funding deadline has already passed.
I sent in my BU application earlier today (next day shipping = eighteen dollars). If you can get it all together in time, I say why not go for it. I do, however think that seventy dollars is ridiculous for an application fee.
Also, on the funding note, and I could be wrong about this, but I believe that the deadline you are talking about is only for specific fellowships. It was my understanding that the regular funding (for assistantships and what not) is still being considered with submissions by the March 1st deadline. Best of luck to you and all.
Ohmygosh. If we're digging out the crazy workshop stories, I have to give a shout out (if one can shout out to a book) to 'The Writing Class' by Jincy Willett. (Then read the author's blog.) It is brilliant. Hilarious. Great genre writing. Would love to do a workshop with her.
@DFW Haha. You're welcome! Obviously, I'm one of those super annoying people who annoy the programs! But, really, she was very kind. I apologized for calling again (it was my second call, and she remembered me from before), and she said, "I understand. It's so hard to wait. I can understand your nerves."
I seriously love this woman. She makes me want to go there! Nicest person on the other end of the phone thus far! (And I've made a TON of calls...whoops.)
Since I have now resorted to tarot and sunsign forecasts: All Pisceans according to Susan Miller there is some hope - The universe has not forgotten you, dear Pisces! Quite the opposite, the universe is about to take very good care of you and shower you with reward for all you've been through. In a way, it's good you had the hard stuff first - Saturn, Uranus, the eclipses, all reaching back as far as 2006. Now, having paid all your dues, you are moving into an extraordinary year of pleasure, travel, career success and money.
Glad I'm not alone being young! I just turned 22 in January and had to write my age for the first time since my birthday today. That's always such a weird moment every year.
2,438 comments:
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Don't even get me STARTED on the BSC. I was obsessed, and still have all my old books. I also read all of the Baby Sitter's Little Sister series, though I felt like a nerd for doing so. (Fourth graders were, like, SO beneath me.) In fact, Ann M. Martin did a signing at my local book store! I fantasized for weeks about what I would say to her, and exactly how I would communicate that we should be BFFs and that I loved her books in a way that no one else understood...but when the time came to meet her, I hid behind my mother and didn't say a word. She signed two of my books while good ol' mom told Ann how much I loved the BSC. I also loved the terrible, terrible show on the Disney channel.
Aaaaand now I'm going to go read "What Claudia Wore" for hours instead of doing my laundry.
@cb
that's a (very mild) relief, thanks.
re: horrible workshop behavior
I once had workshop in which a guy wrote horrible, scatching comments on every single person's stories. He wrote on one story of mine that he felt insulted when he finished reading it. And the majority of the time (we discovered, after comparing notes,) he told people their stories had nothing salvagable, and his advice was simply to abandon the pieces. In class he would rant about other students' "lack of clarity" when none of us could even begin to understand what his own stories were supposed to be about -- he purposely made things mysterious and convoluted as if the lack of readability in his pieces were proof he was smarter than the rest of us. Suffice it to say everyone hated him, and the only way we knew how to deal with his comments was to laugh at them.
(Excuse my typos!)
I also have to add that I was too young to comprehend thinly-veiled (or not-so-thinly veiled) racism. And Claudia and Stacey were the coolest.
@ smiling
Your typos just made your comment wholly unreadable. I'm so upset with you for making me go through that.
Someone in a workshop once wrote on my story, "Next time, make this a story worth reading."
Ouch.
wow, you guys had some shady people in workshopping!
So, um, I went to the dentist for a toothache, had a sudden root canal that was so mystifying the dentist called other people to come look, then declared it the only root canal he's not been able to do in his entire career, filled it up with stuff, then set up an appointment for me to have an emergency root canal done at a specialist tomorrow. I've got a container of vicodin in my hand and a whole lot of Buffy to watch.
This kills my GNE-induced good mood.
And, @Alyssa
Those people are vile. I can't believe they'd be so crass as to post that all over the internet. I feel your frustration; I have had similar classmates.
When a critique mentions "the point" it always makes me laugh.
I once got a crit that said, "I thought this story was good but I couldn't help but wonder what the point was."
Oh man, I've missed some good stuff today. The 80's and 90's reminiscing is amazing! I can't believe that there hasn't been more Jonathan Taylor Thomas (JTT!)discussion, though. I watched "Home Improvement" every week because of that sarcastic cutie. I also spent most my allowance on TigerBeat and Bop magazines, mostly for him. Anyone else save any of their old MASH games from when they were younger? I found some not too long ago and got some great laughs. My life has not turned out as planned...
@EmilyA
i know! i brought up JTT and seemed to be his only former groupie from this group. lol.
Wow, I am appalled with these workshoppers - especially the teachers.
I agree with the people who have said that you should stand up to these guys. It sounds like bullying - and you know the only way to stop a bully...
re: BSC, i was completely obsessed and i also love that claudia site. there is actually a BSC prequel coming out this spring/summer, focusing on the girls before they started the club. there was a big article about it and ann m. martin in publishers weekly (i think).
@courtney: yes, the way they handled the jessi thing was baffling. i think i'd started to grow out of the books by the time she was added, but i was so excited they finally included a character who was a person of color. yet it seems it may have been better to just leave her out. :)
@Noono
You said something a while ago about people just not understanding that writing is "real", that for a writer it is something that he/she essentially HAS to do. And I just want to acknowledge your comment and say that I share your frustration. I feel like few people outside of the writing community understand this concept, that writing has POWER and MEANING and for the writer it is a way (the only way, perhaps) of understanding the world, of understanding life. They look at writing (or any kind of art) as a sort of fun, little hobby, but it is so much more that that! And I just don't know how to explain this to people, particularly to my loving parents and sister who, in an effort to help, keep trying to come up with alternative "plans" for me and encourage me to do the same. And I just want to scream at them, "But you don't understand!! I HAVE to write!!"
Ahh, sorry, I'll stop my ranting. I just wish I had a way to explain this concept to people...
Re: workshops
There was a very pretentious, dick-ish guy in one of my workshops who would basically just cross out entire pages of people's stories, including mine, and circle random sentences that he would mark with a kind "Keep this." He also never made positive comments in class. I tried to bring it up one day- not naming this guy, but the idea that we should point out positive and negative things, and to keep in mind that this class was INTRO to fiction writing. People attacked me for being too sensitive, so I just shut up.
If someone in workshop is going after someone else vindictively, your instructor should step up and put a stop to it- but if he/she doesn't, don't be afraid to do it yourself. We've all written things that suck, and read really terrible stories written by others, but attacking someone is immature and disgusting. I'm not saying we should sugarcoat things and pretend that something terrible is brilliant to avoid hurt feelings, but come on- there's a way to be tactfully honest.
@Jasmine
Sorry to hear about your emergency root canal diagnosis. Dudn sound good.
I write because my mouth is still numb from the 40 minutes of RC I did today.
Suggestion: When in doubt, say it hurts, and in go more numbing chems.
Also, my "favorite" thing ever written on one of my stories-
"Wow, sounds like a bad country song."
Dick! Luckily, he just didn't "get" it, and my teacher gave me lots of encouragement and great comments. But still, that one stung.
I have such workshopping stories that I don't even have the will to tell, they're so negative. Just this: some people have to make themselves feel better by putting everyone else down.
I've never had other students be dicks in workshop. Definitely had some holier-than-thou types in my lit classes though. I did have one teacher in the grad program I just finished who would text on her phone while other people were workshopping instead of listening. And she also told one woman that she was a terrible writer and never should have been allowed through college, let alone into grad school.
On a different note, as we move more into the realm of TV heartthrobs, can I get a shout-out for Jared Leto in MSCL, anyone? Or what about Blossom's bf, David Lascher?
@ klairkwilty - which two schools are still in the running for you?
yea, i have had an experience much like amanda's. i wasn't really given too many dicks in workshopping, but there were plenty of pretentious, self-righteous, "one day the rest of you might catch up to my brilliancy" types.
le sigh.
re: workshops
In general, I've had nothing but good experiences. However, there was this one time, my story included ONE reference to Holden Caulfield (a negative reference I should say, one character essentially warning another "not to be Holden"). The story was not about Catcher/Salinger and yet this very cynical, extremely quiet person in my workshop chose to dismiss my entire story because they thought that all young writers should follow this arbitrary rule they designed for themselves to not write anything related to Catcher/Salinger (ie snarky teens, youth in general).
Other than that though, really cool people were always in my workshops.
I have loads of BSC books at my parents' house. Including the Super Specials. My sister had all of the Sweet Valley books.
@amanda
funny you should mention MSCL - saw this today:
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/24/my-so-called-life-danes-leto/
My favorite bad workshopping story:
In my intermediate fiction class, there was this one guy who always criticized every story. His criticisms were sometimes fair, sometimes not, but he didn't have anything nice to say about a single person's work.
Then one day, one of my stories was being workshopped. It wasn't my best work, and nobody was talking much. It was getting to the point of being a little awkward, because the teacher for that class was pretty bad, and didn't talk much himself. I look at overly-critical guy, and he's got his head tilted back, nose straight up, and he's asleep in the middle of workshop.
I was really mad! I felt like he had used the worst possible insult he could think of for my story, that it was so bad he couldn't even be bothered to stay awake to critique it.
Then a few days later one of the other students told me that kid actually had narcolepsy. So I felt kind of stupid.
@Alyssa
I have written more than my share of harsh criticisms in workshops, and brought up the issues in class - but I NEVER once did it in a malicious way. That is classless and shows a general immaturity and disrespect for the workshop process. These people may be fine critics, but they will never make good teachers or productive workshop members because they don't respect the process at all.
Some people view the workshop process as a strong vs. weak gallery. Like a reality show where someone is going to get voted off, and as long as people are bringing in weaker stories, then they are doing well. These are the same people who will tell you quickly why they didn't like it, but not use a single specific. If something didn't work, then you should be able to show me why ON THE PAGE there is a problem. You need to directly deal with issues in a productive way.
If you get a very direct and specific criticism about your work, then you can do something with that information. General criticisms do absolutely nothing.
Every time I've had to critique a story that wasn't very good, I spent at least twice as much time on it as a story that was good. Because I felt a responsibility to help the author out in determining what was working and what was not working. I know that when I brought a story to class that had serious issues, I would want my classmates to do the same for me. Tell me it had serious issues and work with me to identify them and find ways to bring what was good (but maybe hidden) out and find solutions for what wasn't.
And the hidden thing is important, because 90% of the best stuff that you write is unintentional. It is VERY important to show people what you like for that reason. They may not have planned out connections, good verbiage, or even great situations - and if you don't tell them WHY they work, they will get cut in the next draft when the author is trying to fix problems.
I think it is very important not to coddle people in class (that just shows a lack of respect of them as an author), but to be outwardly hostile to someone and give them no positive feedback is an insult to everything a writing workshop stands for.
/rant.
I'm looking at my dry-erase board, at all the schools listed under 'notification' as 'any moment now' or 'nowish' or 'now -> mid-March.'
Nothing today.
For the most part I’ve stayed away from blogs this year. I continued to take advantage of the invaluable info that Seth (and others? don’t want to short others but I think it’s mostly Seth? Thanks for the millionth time Seth) has graciously compiled. But for my own sanity and productivity I decided to apply, let the chips fall where they fell, and I’d find out when schools notified by actually being notified by them rather than having my heart pricked 1,000 different times with each reported acceptance.
Not criticizing anyone who's on here - it's a Wonderful community, it can be a healthy reminder than others are going through the same thing, and in fairness, if I was still at my terrible desk job, I'd probably check this blog 20348 times a day like I did last year.
I’ve been reading/enjoying the blog since hearing from some schools, and since I'm in procrastination mode, I want to say that everyone – accepted or not - should keep their heads up. No one should feel badly about themselves or their writing if they strike out.
Some disappointment is inevitable, I get why people get down - if a law school rejects you, that sucks, but it’s really a rejection of your LSAT/GPA/resume. An MFA rejection is more personal – it’s your art, your craft, part of who you are.
(Also, most people here are likely “the writer” in their circle of friends. So of course all your friends say, “you’ll get in somewhere! You’re the best writer I know!” And you say: “Thanks!…but no, really, odds are I won’t.”)
And you’re right – odds are you might not get in, especially if you’re applying to less than ten schools and they’re all top twenty. Sucks. But it doesn’t mean you’re not a good writer.
Vivian wrote, “I thought I had a great shot at the schools on my list (all top six) but I'm slowly starting to realize that my optimism was somewhat naive, though I still stubbornly cling to the idea that I have talent and potential.”
I don’t think anyone short of insert your favorite author here has a “great” shot at getting in to the top six MFA programs. It’s definitely possible that you (A) have lots of talent and potential and (B) also had a minimal shot at the top six writing schools, which accepted at most 5%. Those rates are INSANE, getting rejected says a lot more about how tough it is out there than it does about your craft. All it possibly says about you is that you might not be one of the 150 best unheard of young writers in the country (there are obviously a ton of generalization and assumptions there, among them that you can judge what writing is “best,” and that MFAs can do this accurately, and that people applying are young unheard of and American, but whatever, you get my point). It would take a lot of hubris to proclaim you’re one of the 100 best unheard of young writers, right? (and I mean you/me/everyone, I’m not calling out Vivian or anything ridiculous like that.)
Rationalizing what on some level we all know helped me feel better. Maybe it doesn’t work for everyone but hopefully for some. I don’t think I’m one of the 100 best young unheard of writers. If I want to be, I’d better keep working at it like hell (I think noono has the right idea about using rejections as fuel for fire). Bottom line, please make sure you’re knifing though the disappointment and remembering the ridiculous odds against you (and what would being an artist be if the odds weren’t against you). If you’re on this website, you care about this, are committed to it, and have some level of talent. Keep writing, and apply again next year! And congrats, obviously, to those who were accepted! Sorry for length.
Re: Workshop nightmares - I'm feeling incredibly lucky right now, since I'm never had the kind of experiences so many of you have identified (on the other hand, I tend to expect the worst, so I'm always pleasantly surprised when people don't hate my work). I thought I would share one of my favorites, though.
In workshop with a very established, super-badass poet as the instructor, a very sweet, very quiet girl's poem is up for discussion. It's midway through the term and this girl has written some really nice stuff, but always squeaky-clean in content and with a lot of religious overtones (nothing wrong with that - I write poems with religious themes/subtext, occasionally). Basically, she's very meek and very conservative - about 5-foot-nothing, 90 pounds of harmless, adorable Good Christian Girl. Instructor looks at her poem, which is about the myth of Danae and the shower of gold. Instructor looks at the girl.
Instructor: So... it's about fucking, right?
Girl: * blood drains from face *
* silence *
She eventually responded with admirable composure about 2 minutes later.
is anyone else ridiculously scared that an email response from a school will end up in the spam folder??
i am growing more paranoid as the days pass.
I just realized I should specify that the instructor was in no way trying to deliberately freak this girl out - this is just how he talked, and she hadn't really been on the receiving end of it yet. His confusion at her reaction was one of my more memorable workshop moments.
hilary:
If I remember correctly from previous posts, you and I went to the same school for undergrad. If that's the case, I may or may not know the poet professor you're talking about. Would you mind emailing the name to me? I'm just insanely curious, but I don't want to call anyone out publicly.
burlap5 {at} yahoo {dot} com
I'm thinking of calling U of Washington. Do we think they're finished notifying???
@ everybody:
Taking this momentary lull to send this out. If you're looking for a smaller cozier distraction, come join the MFL Limbo ning group. We've got open discussion forums on recipes, our lists, rejection letters, samples, bios, videos, Plan B's, getting back to writing, books, conferences, music, and more. Email me for the invite. mandasue at gmail dot com.
@amanda -- MFL?
@Peaquah
Virginia and Houston.
@ Woon: heh. I think I just had a Freudian slip in acronym form. ;)
MFA.
*hee*
just sent you an email, amanda. sign me up! :)
@burlaper - the email, it has been sent.
Morgan,
I called U of Washington last week (as phone practice/favor for the blog, I didn't apply there lol) and they said that poets could expect to here this week while fiction writers should hear next week. Hold out the hope but I don't think you need to call.
@ Morgan
Ashley Brooke called Washington last week, I think, and they said they would be sending acceptances out around next week. So don't give up hope! I don't think they've finished (or even started for fiction).
cb, we posted at the same second!
oh man, I accidently said "here" instead of "hear" and I just want to say Sorry, I don't normally do that. FORGIVE ME GUYS
thanks guys : )
Hi all,
Just checking in to ask anyone who's willing to and hasn't already -- and no pressure here, of course do it only if you want to -- to let us know where you applied...? I know there have been a lot of newcomers to the board in the last week, and as there hasn't been an official "call" for application lists recently some folks might not know that there are those of us (and definitely me) who find this data not only interesting but extremely important and useful as well.
Be well, all, and best of luck,
Seth
Seth, I'll bite. I've been nervous about posting this (privacy, trawling faculty, etc. etc.) but we're in the thick of it now. I'm in nonfiction:
Wyoming - accepted
Iowa State - accepted
Iowa NWP - rejected
UNCW - presumed rejection?
Minnesota - presumed rejection
New Hampshire
Hollins
Portland State
Arizona
Goucher (Low Res)
Thanks for all you do,
Katie
cornell
michener
iowa
irvine
virginia
michigan
(i know. I KNOW. please... stop guffawing at me.. :*( )
Fiction:
University of Alabama (presumed rejection)
Iowa writer's workshop
UT Austin (Limbo)
LSU
Brown
UC Irvine
Miami
Florida State
Cal State, Long Beach
Cal State, San Diego
Cal State, San Francisco
Cal State, San Jose
I haven't posted a list yet, either. I applied to the following in fiction:
Michigan (accepted)
Wisconsin (rejected)
Cornell
Iowa
Virginia
Arizona
Florida
Irvine
Thanks for all you do Seth!
Fiction:
UMass
Michigan
Montana
Iowa
Wisconsin
Syracuse
Cornell
Michener
Hollins
Virginia
UNCG
Columbia
NYU
Brown
fiction
wyoming-accepted
montana-- nada, presumed rejection
Fiction: UK and US
Iowa
UNCW
Brown
NYU
Oxford
Glasgow
Edinburgh
Royal Holloway
Fiction:
IWW (rejected)
Brooklyn
UVA
Wokka wokka wokka!
I was hoping for an acceptance before I posted this little meow, but here goes.
13 programs for fiction:
Northwestern (rejected [hard])
Iowa (assumed rejection)
Cornell (assumed rejection)
Michigan (assumed rejection)
George Mason (assumed rejection)
Florida
Columbia College Chicago
UNLV
Virginia Commonwealth
Colorado State
Boston University
NYU
Johns Hopkins
I applied to most of these programs for the sole reason that I had two short stories totaling 40 pages, and I read it wasn't a good idea to send only one story. I'm beginning to regret that decision because I didn't really want to apply to so many top tier programs. Such is life.
I've started checking this blog fairly regularly, so I should contribute to Seth's data! Don't ask me why, but I only applied to two programs (for a PhD in poetry): Houston and Denver. Good luck all!
I have such mixed feelings about this blog. Part of me thinks it's absolute poison, since I am so stressed out that my jaw aches from grinding my teeth and I think I'm getting an ulcer, but it's also extremely informative and full of great people. So, god, what do I know.
Anyway, very well, list. Fiction.
UT Austin -- rejected.
Wisconsin -- rejected.
Michigan -- rejected.
Montana -- accepted!!! (I ♥ you Montana)
... yet to hear from:
Iowa -- presumed rejection.
Oregon
Virginia
Brown
Houston
- Emma (not LA Emma. I'd give myself a nickname but I'm emotionally spent.)
For fiction
UT-Austin ("DENIED")
UMass Amherst
Irvine
NYU
Columbia U
Iowa
Michigan
Oregon
Wisconsin-Madison (shortlist)
Stegner Fellowship
Montana
Syracuse
Virginia
Hey Seth :)
Fiction:
-Iowa (likely rejected)
-Cornell (likely rejected)
-Alabama (rejected)
-Syracuse (rejected)
-Vanderbilt (likely rejected)
-Central Florida (rejected)
-McNeese State (waitlisted!)
-Florida
-Florida State
-UNCG
-Notre Dame
BTW - is anyone else totally freaked out about next week? I think I'm going to crawl into a hole. EVERY single one of those schools is scheduled to notify in "early March" except for UNCG, who knows when they'll notify. But still, it's a bit nerve wracking. It's either going to be a great week, or a very, very bad week...
Every single one of the schools I have left, at least...
Also btw, I talked to the McNeese director and he told me that he would only accept people he can fund (he said he could only take THREE per genre this year, yikes!). So, that does mean that if I get off the wait list, I would get funding. So, I will hold on to it. Thanks all :)
This is my first year applying and I realized a little late I should have applied to MANY more schools. But there's always next year, right?
Applied in fiction:
UT Austin (Rejected)
Iowa
Virginia
Bath Spa in England
American
(I suppose I technically applied for CNF at American since I sent a CNF sample, but they allow you to work in multiple genres.)
Fiction:
Heard from-
California College of the Arts (accepted)
Waiting on-
CalArts
CSU Long Beach
Brown
Boston University
Hunter (starting to assume rejection)
Brooklyn
NYU
Thanks for allllll your amazing work Seth.
Fiction
McNeese (accepted)
Virginia Tech (waitlisted)
Texas State (rejected - went for spring '10 enrollment)
UNCW (rejected)
Wyoming (rejected)
Syracuse (rejected)
Arkansas
Hollins
Vanderbilt
Idaho
Colorado State
Montana
Whoah, miss private eye, you already heard from CCA? How did I miss this?
Okie dokie here's my list:
American (rejected TWICE)
Texas (rejected)
Wyoming (rejected)
Vanderbilt (assumed rejection)
Indiana University (assumed rejection)
Brown
UVA
Hollins
Florida
Montana
California College of the Arts
University of Washington
Andy, how did you find out from UNCW, is that just an assumed rejection?
Also, I was meaning to ask this for a while: I've been accepted for one school here in the UK, and it's really good etc, but it wouldn't be my first choice, but I havn't heard anything from any other college, if I only get in to this school, should I go, or wait another year and re-apply? I feel like a fool because I only applied for 4 colleges in the U.S( iowa, uncw, brown, nyu) OUCH, ha!
thanks guys!
@Briana,
Did you get an official rejection from IWW?
For Fiction:
Michener (rejected)
Wisconsin (rejected)
UNCW
Montana
Minnesota
NYU
Brown
UC Irvine
Arizona State
Colorado State
My list for fiction:
Madison (rejected)
WUSTL (rejected)
Iowa
Virginia
Oregon State
Portland State
Arizona
Florida State
So, I gave up lurking a while ago because it was making me anxious, and when I came back I realized that the task of digging through the thousands of new postings was too daunting. Please forgive me if this has been previously answered, but I couldn't tell from the DH timeline. Has Vanderbilt poetry actually notified, because it's not posted on DH, just fiction is. Also, any word from Michigan or Arizona State about whether they've notified people on the wait list yet? I'm grasping at straws here...
Michigan has apparently finished notifying, as has Vanderbilt.
Anyone else about to watch the Russia/Canada game?
Fiction:
Iowa
Notre Dame
UC Irvine
Oregon
Southern Illinois - Accepted
Arizona State
Wyoming - Rejected
Syracuse - Rejected
Montana
Purdue
Oregon State University
Vanderbilt
University of Colorado, Boulder
McNeese - Waitlisted
CSU Long Beach
I was also hoping/waiting for an acceptance before I posted my list, but here goes:
For Fiction:
WashU - Rejected
UNCG
U of Miami
Old Dominion
For Screenwriting:
UT Austin - Rejected (secondary genre was fiction)
LSU
York U
Now, of course, I'm doubting my selection - but I did put a lot of time into picking these back in the fall. Oh well, guess we'll see....
Everyone is posting their lists, so I'm posting mine, even though it's been posted before and Seth should for sure have it by now. I just want to show everybody my collection of rejection.
Rejections:
Wyoming
Syracuse
Schools that have already notified others that I don't want to call "assumed rejections" even though it's not looking so hot:
UNCW
Montana
Southern Illinois
Virginia Tech
Iowa
No News:
Kansas
Penn State
Texas State
Georgia College & State University
Brown
UNLV
Florida Atlantic University
@JasonJ
i just started keeping up with MFA Blog this week so i think i only posted my acceptance on DH last Saturday.
Schools I would've applied to if they had an MFA program:
Princeton
UNC-Chapel Hill
Duke
UCLA
UC Berkeley
Georgetown
Miss Private Eye,
Oh, ok... did they notify via email/phone call? Sorry if you've already covered this.
In ficiton...
Michener-Rejected
Illinois-assumed rejection
Ohio State-assumed rejection
Waiting on...
UNLV
Irvine
Arizona State
Purdue
Florida
Oregon
Seth:
Happy to help any gathering of statistics, although I bet you could get better data through a controlled poll on your blog (or, better yet at P&W). I've applied to fiction MFAs at
Iowa (accepted)
Cornell
UMass Amherst
UMichigan
New York University
New School
Montana
Virginia
CUNY Brooklyn
CUNY Hunter
Columbia
Johns Hopkins
Rutgers@Newark
I'm assuming rejections at Cornell, Michigan and UMass (and maybe Montana now, apparently?), but I haven't heard anything official.
Hi, I'm terrified of this list because I think I went into a little bit of a different direction, kinda...
Anyway, fiction:
UCSD (rejected)
SFSU
SDSU
Arizona
Maryland
American
CCNY
Queens College (cuny)
New School
Emerson
Loved to have feedback or commiseration :)
@JasonJ
no, no worries at all!
it was a phone call from one of the profs on saturday evening.
according to her, they made their first picks last friday and will be meeting again to make their next picks.
i've spoken with her a few times so far; let me know if i can provide any info.
@Woon
Completely agree. Princeton, I'd be an undergrad again for you after the 2008 AWP readings.
Applied (poetry):
McNeese
Alabama
Purdue
IWW
Montana
Michigan
Texas Austin
Texas State San Marcos
UNLV
Minnesota
UMass
Illinois Urbana
Western MI
Wyoming
Wish I could re-apply older and wiser.
Miss Private Eye,
Thanks for the info! I think that's all I need to know.
Crossing my fingers for a second pick!!
Come on CCA!!! I wanna leave my heart in San Francisco!!
Applied to 16 programs in fiction:
Minnesota - Accepted (!!!!)
Wyoming - Waitlisted
UTexas - Rejected
Wisconsin - Rejected
Cornell - Assumed Rejection
Colorado State - "
Montana - "
Iowa - "
Vanderbilt - "
Alabama - "
UNCW - "
Alaska
Idaho
Eastern Washington
Virginia
Florida
@Seth
I've posted these over the past few weeks, but am posting all together (poetry).
Accepted...
-U Washington, Seattle (no funding. 99.9% sure I will be turning this down)
-UMass, just completed a phone interview for TA position
Wait-listed...
-Minnesota, Twin Cities (waitlisted)
-Ohio State
-Illinois, UIUC
Cricket, cricket...
-Brown
-NYU
-Columbia
-FSU
-Indiana (I REALLY want to hear from these guys)
Good luck, all!!! :)
@ Mike- I'm in at Montana for fiction. I'm the LA Emma.
@ Patrick
I hear from UNCW because I emailed them and asked for a status update. They had indicated to me in a prior email that they had hoped to make me an offer (!) but it turned out I fell just shy of an offer in the end. That was a really tough rejection, but I have to say that the UNCW faculty sent me some extremely thoughtful conciliatory responses. Of course, what happened to me has no bearing on where you stand with them, though, so good luck!
Hey y'all. Newcomer. Going to start jumping in on this blog every once in a while.
Applied in poetry to:
- University of Iowa
- University of Notre Dame
- University of Kansas (Rejected)
- University of Michigan
- University of Minnesota
- University of Illinois
- Purdue University
- Washington University, St. Louis (Rejected)
- Southern Illinois University
- Bowling Green State University
- Western Michigan University
- Indiana University
- Northern Michigan University (Accepted)
- Minnesota State University, Mankato
Thanks everyone. Good luck to all!
@JasonJ
i'm rooting for you!!
@ Andy,
Your story with UNCW is my worst effin' nightmare, dude. I'm currently sitting on a GNE (with no other acceptances thus far) and I don't know how I would handle it if I called up the school I have my GNE from and they said "well, when we sent you that, we really wanted to make you an offer. but as we looked through the rest of the apps, it turned out you didn't make the cut."
I had hoped that it just wasn't possible for programs to be this insensitive -- I.E. they wouldn't send good news your way if there was a decent chance it wasn't going to pan out. But your story proves it can and does happen. Which terrifies me, but most of all I feel really crappy for you. That must have been such a bitter pill to swallow. My heart goes out to you.
hey guys,
my list for poetry
VCU
UVA
Vtech
Brown
Iowa
Arizona
Montana
UMass
WashU - rejected
Vanderbilt- rejected, i think
does anyone know if umass is done notifying for poetry, or if montana has begun to notify?
I'm holding out hope that Montana's not done notifying. According to them, they accept double the incoming class, so I'd think if they've already accepted 44 people we would have more than three on this blog. Anyone? Bueller?
I too have mixed feelings about this blog. Much of my time spent browsing around here would have been better spent writing new stories, but nonetheless, it has been a great resource and a supportive community. Thanks to Seth and all the others involved.
Here's my final list:
UT Austin (rejection)
Wyoming (rejection)
Cornell (assumed rejection)
Montana
Oregon
Arizona
Boise State
Colorado State
San Diego State
Portland State
New Hampshire
Central Connecticut
I'm hoping to hear some good news soon; congratulations to those who already have.
And I applied in fiction.
And I applied in fiction.
And here is my list:
Wisconsin (denied)
Michener (denied)
Michigan (pretty much denied)
Hunter (pretty much denied)
UNCW (silence)
FSU (silence)
Iowa (silence)
Montana (silence)
UC Irvine
NYU
Columbia
UVA
UNH
Texas State
Brooklyn
What's GNE mean? Thanks!
@ A GNE is Good News Email.
@ Frankish, how it going with those tickets to Paris?
Hello all,
I've heard nothing official from anywhere. In poetry.
(!)
N/A
(.)
Michigan
Vanderbilt
(/)
Iowa
U Washington
(?)
UC Irvine
Oregon
Virginia
UNCG
Houston
@ Dreux
Thanks for the sympathy. And yes, that was a bitter pill to swallow, although nothing washes down nasty medicine like a good solid gin martini. Or three.
I should say - and maybe I'm just being naive, or optimistic about the inherent goodness of the human race - that I didn't get any indication that I was the victim of a bait and switch, or of malice, or even incompetence. When UNCW emailed me saying that they hoped to have an offer for me soon, they still had weeks left to go before winding up their application process. As far as I can tell from this blog activity, that process is still ongoing. And UNCW's fiction class is super small this year. So I think the bottom dropping out on me with that program was one of those awful things that honest-to-God just HAPPENED.
But, if someone else out there knows something about UNCW that I don't - something more, eh, sinister - then hey, I'd really rather not know about it now. That ship has sailed and my energy would be much better spent crossing my fingers for success with the rest of my outstanding applications.
But anyway, thanks again for the good wishes, and best of luck to ya.
Hi Seth,
I can't remember if I posted this and it's too far back to find where I might have. BTW, just wanted to thank you, again, for what I believe is an incredible and invaluable service you are doing.
Here's my list,
Iowa
Oxford
Bennington
VCFA
Warren Wilson
Pacific University
Fairfield University - Accepted
Carlow University - Accepted
@Andy
Did UNCW say how small their fiction class is? And does that mean they're pretty much done with notifications.
Sorry for all the neuroses, they seem to be consuming me...
And congrats on McNeese!!
Also, NYU
List in poetry:
Emerson
UMass Boston
UMass Amherst
Rutgers-Newark
Brooklyn
Hunter
Sarah Lawrence
Cornell
Syracuse (rejection, boo!)
Pittsburgh
Temple
@ Andy,
I doubt anything 'sinister.' My GNE also didn't make any promises. It was complimentary, flattering, encouraging, etc. But at no point did it say 'it's just a matter of time 'til we admit you' or 'we promise that you're going to get admitted.' Much like yours, it indicated there's still quite a bit left to do in their office.
Nonetheless, I'd like to think that MFA programs, knowing at least a little bit about how crazy we applicants get, would be extremely cautious about sending any sort of encouragement to an applicant before they have a clear picture of that applicant's admissibility. Just because there's always a chance that said applicant applied to 25 schools, this is their 3rd year applying, and that they don't have any other prospects. The potential to make a really crushing defeat that much worse is just so huge when you send out the kind of communication you got from UNCW, so while there's certainly nothing sinister about what they did, in the context of the MFA admissions process, it might lack a certain amount of appropriate caution.
I'm glad you have another offer, though. That certainly makes it a little less difficult.
well, i'm in a terrible mood, so i'm not perhaps thinking as clearly as possible ...
but what's the purpose of sending out a GNE, if it's not yet an acceptance?
and more to the point, what's the point of sending out more GNE's than the number of offers you plan to make?
Are they simply trying to see if anyone is going to say "gee, thanks, but I decided to go somewhere else?" and if so, do people actually upfront do that, especially so early in the game?
the adorably naive koru
@Miss Private Eye,
Thank you!!
Concerning My List and My Farewell:
I don't know if I posted my full list yet, but I will do so today. Purdue dropped today, so it's almost game over for me.
I have come to accept that I'm not ready for an MFA. At least, I wasn't when I sent everything away in November. As I worked to revise some of the works I've created lately, I removed the shrink wrap, and the feeling I got was like waking up next to a lover and realizing I'm not in love any more. Or perhaps waking up one day and seeing an entirely new color, never before seen or named. I was too cautious in what I sent in, and it just plain wasn't good enough.
All of this is a good thing. Realizing what I have, I can kick the poems out of bed and get them the help they need. I see the novel color in my new work, and now I can paint more of it and/or add it into my older works. I'm the kind who grows in my writing through leaps and plateaus. I've made a leap since November, and I'm very, very excited. In the next few months, I'm going to concentrate on kicking ass and taking names. I'm thinking about when not if I go to a program.
The future holds a reprogram of my application list, probable list and portfolio consults, and lots and lots of writing about things I love. I have three semi-major efforts underway. Someone mentioned getting a group of could-have-beens together to workshop. My poems and I are ready. I'll leave my email link active in my profile.
So unless some miracle happens or Bowling Green happens to think that what I sent doesn't suck (or lots of people ahead of me drop off and a program gets desperate), I will bid you all farewell until next season.
My list (Poetry):
Rejections:
- Washington University in St. Louis
- Syracuse
Presumed Rejections:
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Minnesota
- Ohio State
- Cornell
- Iowa
- Michigan
- Purdue
Big Fat Question Mark (but low expectations):
- Bowling Green
I've learned a lot and it's been fun. Until next time!
Ben
I'm pretty sure I did this a while ago, but here's my list again, fiction:
George Mason - rejected
Iowa
Columbia
Notre Dame
New School
Brooklyn
Queens
CCNY
Temple
Rutgers Newark
Maryland
American
Memphis
U of San Francisco
@xataro,
i'll be sorry to see you leave ... :( i had two drop off my list today, so i know the frustration (hence the bad mood).
shoot me a message on limbo if you want to keep in touch. :-) and good luck keeping writing.
here is my sad little list:
wisconsin (rejected)
syracuse (rejected)
michigan (waiting for rejection)
still waiting:
george mason
brown (ha ha ha)
Koru,
I'm with you. I think it's a pretty dubious practice in some ways, though I'm not exactly an MFA admissions expert. If I don't get in at my GNE school, it will be the toughest rejection of them all for the reasons you mentioned.
Seth, if you read this, would you care to weigh in? How do you feel about schools sending out GNEs not attached to any specific offers, well ahead of making their official decisions? Especially in cases where it's entirely possible the students receiving these emails won't get in?
oh, and i am fiction!
@L.Lewis
I really don't feel comfortable talking numbers on this here forum. Sorry. That's not to demean everybody else here who talks numbers, but I'd just rather leave the numbers to Seth and avoid potentially putting myself in an awkward position somewhere down the road. I will say this, though: I wouldn't read too much into what a smaller enrollment means.
Thanks re: McNeese, though! (That goes for you too, Dreux.) Having another offer does alter my perspective about things. (Sympathy to everyone who's stilling waiting for good news. I was in your shoes last year, and I not so fondly remember how difficult it was.) I had a good working relationship with McNeese during my college debate career, and I sense that their MFA program is JUST on the brink of receiving the attention and respect it deserves.
My mom actually said this about McNeese to me the other day, "Ugh, I really wish you didn't have to go to that dinky little college JUST so you'll be in school next year." Holy crap, I almost turned into the Incredible Hulk. Luckily for her, Mom just got a stern talking to. :) Gonna go with the Fresh Prince on this one: parents just don't understand.
@Dreux,
It IS a frustrating practice! I could *almost* understand it if it were a school that for some reason of another couldn't make offers til late in the game, and perhaps was a mid-ranked school: say, they have four poetry slots, and they want feelers to see if the four people they want to admit are still interested in them, or if they've already heard from schools they're more interested in.
But GNE's coming so early ... late Jan/early Feb, and especially coming to people that are ultimately not admitted at a school that notified in mid-Feb their first-round folks, it's just ... weird. It sounds disorganised or like its an unthought-through process. i don't know.
Good call, Andy (about your Ma). In my book, any program that takes itself seriously not only to be sure to fund everyone they admit, but to give every single one of them crucial teaching experience, is not 'dinky' in any way.
*withering sigh*
in fiction:
UNCG
NC State
NYU
Brown
Oregon
CSU
ASU
LSU
Florida
Iowa (assumed rejection)
Michigan ('JECTED)
UT (DENIIIIED)
Vandy (silence/'jected)
UNCW (I've heard nothing, so... that's not good.)
well, what I figured is not confirmed. Went to the Iowa Isis website thingy and the status is not officially changed to: Not Accepted.
I think I like that wording. It's kinder than "rejected" or even "declined".
(I'm CNF, by the way, so this doesn't have anything to do with you IWW poetry/fiction folks)
Also: watching LOST on Hulu RIGHT NOW. Without giving any spoilers, I have to agree with whoever it was earlier who said the first 3 seasons were the best. I'm kind of waiting for this season to do to me what the first 3 did...
Nadia,
Season 6 is really good so far! Stick with it, there are a lot of answers. LA X was an iffy episode but I think once you get to "What Kate Does" you'll start to get excited again!
I loved seasons 1 and 2 (I think 2 was my favorite) but 6 has been really good so far.
Andy, I couldn't agree more with McNeese, and not just because I'm waitlisted there. I love the admissions process, I've seen some good work coming from alumni (umm, hello, Best New American Voices), it's fully funded, you can get a M.A. alongside your M.F.A. (thanks Courtney). Faculty is great, seem really student-centered and down to earth. I think the only downsides are location and reputation, but I agree with you, I think it's only going to move up. It's a good "sleeper" program.
A number of people have been asking about UMass and where they're at in their notification process.. I don't know for sure, but it seemed to me when I talked to them that they're done notifying for Poetry (I have no idea about Fiction).
Thing is, you might be able to find out for yourself. On their website, my status has finally been updated to, "Accepted" which means that even if you're in status limbo, you might not have gotten in.
Wish I could give a more definite response, but this is just my inclination..
On a lighter note...
http://htmlgiant.com/mean/top-5-mfa-rankings-rearranged/
I certainly don't endorse this very-MFA-related-link, as it's extremely politically incorrect, possibly offensive... but found it to be about the funniest thing I've read/heard all day.
@ anyone talking about GNE's
I'd really like some sort of explanation for these GNE's. It makes zero sense. Here's a comparison I'd like to draw, feel free to call me an asshole: for undergrad, I got the Dartmouth "early letter." Translation: they sent me an acceptance in mid-February, telling me to sit tight, that I was 100% being offered admission on April 1. Dartmouth (and other schools) do this because it shows the applicant that they love him/her. If said applicant has applied to other places as well -- as most super-stellar-applicants would -- it makes Dartmouth/school X stand out. "Aw, isn't that nice? They LOVE me! Yay Dartmouth! God, I love Dartmouth!" (please note: I took the much more cynical/why-the-fuck-are-they-sending-me-this approach)
ALSO, it gets the accepted student thinking pro-Dartmouth, while the other schools are still big scary question marks.
With these GNE's, that's clearly not the case. In Andy's case, and in Dreux's most-feared case, these GNE's are absolutely evil, in my opinion. Can someone give me some sort of history of these things? Would someone be bold enough to post theirs? (At this point, I'm semi-hoping this is just one huge prank, b/c I haven't received one. Also... see next paragraph)
@ ALL UNCW FICTION PEOPLE
so, basically, for all of us who haven't heard anything, we're out. If Andy didn't get in, ain't none of us other patient/confused people getting in. Done and done.
Seth,
Forgot on my earlier post....all of those schools for fiction.
A confirmed no:
Wisconsin
A probable no:
Cornell
Vanderbilt
Michigan
Iowa
Awaiting (but a likely no):
Columbia
NYU
Hopkins
Brown
UVA
Does anyone have thoughts on Oxford's Mst in Creative Writing Program?
@oxford10 ... what sorts of thoughts are you looking for?
i did a lot of research on them, then decided not to apply, though for personal reasons, not based on the program strengths/weaknesses.
Oh, I never said congrats to all the acceptances/waitlists today! I'm still slightly confused, but congrats to the Emmas, or the one Emma that got accepted (?)
I also applied to Oxford for its Mst...the program intrigued me, but I really haven't researched it well enough. Anyone else?
List...
Poetry
Boise State: Waitlisted
Arizona State
Colorado State
Texas State
Michener: Rejected
Florida
Oregon
NC State
Irvine
Michigan
CNF
UNCW: Accepted
Hollins
Notre Dame
Penn State
Idaho
Arizona State
I'm still keeping the glass half full, people. :)Fill. It. Up.
Meredith,
I had previously posted a dude-speak version of mine, and will revisit it:
Dear Applicant Dude,
Your writing sample was totally rad! Know what else is rad? Our program! And the town we're located in! Call us up, and we'll hash it out, brah.
So, it was basically a complimentary email about my writing, inviting me to call up to ask any questions I might have.
It was definitely not in any way indicative of an official acceptance, and in my follow-up correspondence with the school, they let me know they're still working on final decisions.
So it's definitely very different from what you got from Dartmouth, and in the case of Andy's experience meets my worst fears, potentially pretty evil if you look at it in a certain light.
Here's my list. Thanks for all your work Seth.
Alabama - accepted!
Vanderbilt - assumed rejection
Wiscononsin - rejected
Texas - rejected
Michigan - rejected
Indiana - assumed rejection
Oregon
Notre Dame
UNCG
Florida
Dreux,
Dude, bro, totes wish other programs sent out letters in dude-speak. And all of them signed by Matthew McConaughey...
bro.
@Dreux,
Those emails ARE evil, simply put.
Because, those of us who don't get them assume that then we're not in the running at School X if someone got one, and we didn't; (note that this could be someone in a workshop at my school got an email, doesn't imply posting about it on a blog is bad.)
Which then leads to the (highly individual to various schools) question of what sub-group of applicants gets GNEs?: is it only the top couple of applicants, whose notification might take longer because the department has decided they're SO RAD they should go up for a uni-wide fellowship? is it a group of a bunch of promising manuscripts, of which a subset will be accepted (as it seems happened at UNCW, eek!), or is it just the people with cool 'writerly' names that some bored office temp decided to abuse one day?
Data!
In fiction:
Alabama (Likely rejection)
Arizona State
Colorado State
Florida
Illinois (Likely rejection)
Michener (Rejection)
Minnesota (Rejection)
Syracuse (Rejection)
Wisconsin (Continued state of neither acceptance nor rejection...shortlist?)
And here I am, ladies and gents, same boat as a lot of you (in poetry), but still feeling like things will work out somehow!
Definitely not as full of despair as I was after the first rejection, for some reason.
DEFINITE NO:
UT Michener
Syracuse
Michigan
SEEMS LIKE A NO:
Illinois
Indiana
Cornell
SCREW MARCH! THE TIME IS NOW, FOOLZ:
Brown
SIUC
LSU
Godspeed, all of you!
@ Dreux (and Andy)
you're lucky I'm fluent in dude-speak. okay, that gives me a better idea of what we're talking about... it still sounds pretty evil to me (I would probably translate an email like that into a sort of marriage proposal from school X). That said, I hope Andy's still around, b/c I'm wondering when they sent this to him... he said a few weeks ago, right? B/c I know that the UNCW grad school sent my (and lots of others') final apps over to the CW department at the end of January (ours were the "incomplete" files when the original, main batch was sent over from the grad school). There's a good story behind that one, but it'll have to wait. Actually it's not that great of a story. Nevermind.
So... man oh man. Sorry, Dreux, I just went back and re-read you and Andy's entire convo again (I think I was distracted by my high-pitched "whaaaaaaaat?!?!" the first time). I agree with your last sentiment, that it seems unorganized and weird and .... whatever. I hope your school, Dreux, has handled their GNE's the right way, and that they're humping your leg soon. In that adorable puppy kind of way.
Right now I'm wishing that I had applied to schools that notified early. I'm kinda a basket-case at this point. Hence the story about my Dartmouth early letter. Just kill me now, dudes. Guuuh.
@Meredith,
if history is any indicator, a few of your schools should be notifying any day!
*fingers crossed for you*
eeee thanks koru!!!! I'm hoping you hear some good news soon too!! *internet hug*
Nonfiction
UNCW - accepted
George Mason - accepted
Ohio State - waitlist
Iowa - waitlist
Alabama
U of Arizona
New Hampshire
Hollins
Applied to these programs. Fiction:
Cornell
Michigan
Iowa
Hunter
Wisconsin
Syracuse
Arizona
Texas
Florida
Arizona State
Brooklyn
Hi -- I'm new here. I've been trying to pretend this waiting is not happening so I'm only looking at this blog about once a week. Anyway, here is my list, in CNF:
American
George Mason
Georgia College and State University
Memphis
LSU
West Virginia
Not a whisper from anyone (unless you count GCSU saying they want transcripts for the high school courses that I was given college transfer credit for in 1978. I somehow got through two undergrad degrees and law school without it, but I guess I'll have to try to track it down for them).
Thanks, Seth for all you do -- your book was a life saver.
Here is my list and there has been complete silence on part of all the schools I've applied to for fiction -
Iowa
UC Irvine
Anitoch
Spalding
Pacific Oregon
Fiction:
West Virginia
NC State
Iowa (presumed rejection)
Michigan (presumed rejection)
VTech (waitlisted)
VCU
Notre Dame
My List:
Applying in Creative Nonfiction:
Iowa NWP (rejected)
Emerson
Hollins
CA College of the Arts
George Mason
Arizona
Applying in Poetry:
Michigan (rejected)
UMass-Amherst (rejected)
Indiana
Virginia
poetry:
wash u (unusual limbo)
syracuse (out)
michigan (out)
indiana (out?)
brown (PLEASE)
iowa
george mason
arizona
houston
nyu
virginia
montana
temple (in!)
@ Seth
Applied in fiction to:
Iowa
Michigan
NM State
CO State
Purdue
U of Washington
UNCG
Oregon State
Illinois
Southern Illinois
Arizona
Wisconsin
Also, for all the poets out there, I ran across this article today and found it interesting:
http://chronicle.com/article/The-New-Math-of-Poetry/64249/?sid=pm&utm_source=pm&utm_medium=en
Re: bad workshop experiences. I'm lucky that there have only been a few bad apples in the four workshops I've taken (2 undergrad, 2 grad). One guy would write one sentence of praise and then unleash two pages of single-spaced vitriol. He even ripped up another student's piece in workshop once. The thing was that he wrote really really bad high fantasy, so no one spared him when it came his turn to be critiqued.
I also had a (I suspect) teabagger flip out on a story of mine (the one, incidentally, that I sent to programs this year) because I had a fleeting reference to someone who could be slighlty homophobic having a W bumper sticker on their car. I mean, it took up less than a line, and she ranted about it (though not to my face; I didn't see it until I read the written critiques later that night).
Personally, even if I really dislike a story or it's chock full of bad grammar, cliches, etc., I can find a way to be constructive. Of course, I thought everyone would be able to do that. Apparently, I have underestimated the human race. Sigh.
The people rejected from Michigan, do you have a change or decision on your online status?
Addendum to my list in fiction:
UNLV
No news from anyone but Wisconsin (rejection).
@MFAGuy, no change or status anywhere on mine.
Why is everyone counting out Indiana? DH doesn't show that they've notified, at least not in Poetry!!
At a workshop I did in intermediate fiction writing in Boston - a lady in her forties seemed quite authoritative and had her nose a bit up in the air. And when she spoke she had this thing about being very very intellectual and she spoke slowly with pauses which got people totally mad. I mean we thought she had finished saying what she wanted and then again used to continue talking... she never really even smiled back at me and finally in her comments on my story she murdered it.She marked almost every sentence and gave comments like - what does this mean? 'Oh God I am losing it now! 'I no longer believe this is happening'....'I don't even want to read this'..it made me feel like shit as it was my second class in an alien country and whilst everyone else was really supportive and encouraging she totally tore my confidence. And then my proff in our conference later said he loved the story and the wriiting style but because it is a workshop he didn't openly appreciate it!!! So I guess it's totally fine if people don't like the stories infact I'd love some constructive criticism but this woman was kind of vindictive without even really knowing me at all....
@ dannigirl, interesting read from the Chronicle.
and you just taught me that 'teabagger' has a political meaning. i was only previously aware of its other meaning. oh, irony in the other definition!
I just remembered this story that my mother told me and that I had to tell myself right now.
There was this young man and this mountain. There was a path up to the top, and for years he toiled and worked his way up there, and finally after a long time, he reached the peak. He looked down below and he saw a great view, and also 100 other paths leading up to the same place he was standing. Some looked easier, and some were blocked or difficult to pass through. And then he smacked himself on the head for seeing only that one path.
My list, in poetry:
Assumed rejections:
Virginia Tech
Hopkins
No news:
Michener
Houston
UVA
Maryland
UNC G
Anyone else applying straight from undergrad? I'm feeling young.
@ koru
It's great irony.
Teabaggers love Nevada--we have the second lowest tax burden in the US (just behind AK). Which is why we (NV) are in the financial mess we're in. 'Nuf said.
@Tracy -
Nope. Just turned 30, finished undergrad 5 years ago. I'm feeling old. :-/
@ Mila
amen to your mum's story.
*unscrews cap off wine*
yes, my wine has a screw-off cap. I actually prefer the kind in the box (which I affectionately refer to as "my Franz")
@ dannigirl ... it could be worse. i live in a state with one of the higher/highest tax burdens, and it still seems there's no money for anything!
though i think they're screwing the public high schools here rather than the unis?
@Danni girl I am thirty one so have some hope:))
@Daffron my proff is currently a guest lecturer at Iowa he is one of my recommenders do you reckon I should write to him and casually ask. I thought it was a bit out of line to do so but I'm so done waiting....still wondering...
I'll get in on this list party too. I applied in fiction and have essentially abandoned all hope.
Rejections:
UT Austin
Syracuse
Awkward silence:
Minnesota
UMass Amherst
Montana
Vanderbilt
Just a matter of time:
UC Irvine
Portland State
LSU
Johns Hopkins
@ Tracy,
Yep, I'm applying straight from undergrad too! Only 21.
@ Koru
You're right - I think everyone is in pretty bad shape these days. It's just frustrating for me that my state is consistently at the bottom of any kind of good ranking and here we are cutting more money from Medicaid, higher ed, etc. Anyone depending on any kind of social service is pretty screwed in NV. Though education gets screwed, too.
Seth: Thank you for everything. My list for poetry.
University of Washington- ACCEPTED-no funding!!
Oregon
Portland State University
Alaska Fairbanks
Western Washington University (MA)
Idaho
Montana
Wyoming-rejected
Texas-Austin-rejected
Iowa
University of Victoria (BC)
Tracy,
I don't turn 22 until September. How's that for young? :o) I graduated last month and have already entered the corporate work force, but other than that I am essentially applying straight out of undergrad.
@koru, Can you tell me what you thought were the plus and minuses of the Oxford program? Thanks:)
@Tracy--
Yup, last semester now. Turned 22 recently.
Here's my list Seth.
For fiction:
Wisconsin
Irvine
Illinois
Minnesota
Alabama
Florida State
Indiana
Michigan
Washington U St Louis (waitlist)
Iowa
Oregon State (accepted!)
Florida
Vanderbilt
Mississippi
@Sud,
I should also add that i researched the programe a year and a half ago, then things got freed up so i could do a full res rather than a low res programme, but i think everything i said is still true. hopefully they have more funds info now, though. :-)
@koru, thanks so much. that's really helpful. I was a bit worried about the attention to student thing as their website states that all of the work is done independently between residencies. So that answers an important question. I have an EU passport, (Irish) so the program (even with travel from the states) ends up being cheaper than any other low res program I've applied to. They notify on March12.
Again, many thanks.
Thanks so much Seth for all that you've done.
Here are my schools:
Fiction
UT- Austin (rejected)
Wisconsin- Madison (rejected)
Hunter
George Mason
UNCW
Florida
Minnesota
Oregon
SFSU
Does anyone care to comment/muse on the current situation for George Mason in fiction (or in poetry). I know there are at least a few acceptances that have been posted. But, I also know that it is a large program and I feel like there would have been more acceptances posted here if they finished as long ago as they have appeared to (a la discussion regarding the program on this blog).
@Neff-
I think it's risky. Maybe there will be news soon. It is hard to believe they're all done with so few reporting acceptances, but all has been quiet this week. Hang tight--I'm so hoping for some great news for you soon!
Hello,
I'm a relatively new follower of this blog; love the intrigues that are exchanged. Here's my list in poetry:
St Andrews (denied)
Edinburgh
Michigan
Mills
Brown
Toronto
Stegner
I actually had a GNE experience with St Andrews, unfortunately to then be rejected. The surge of hope it brought on only made their refusal much harder to bear. Ah well, so it goes.
Now waiting on tenterhooks for news...
@DFW I actually called George Mason yesterday (I think it was yesterday) to ask. I applied there in CNF. They have the absolute nicest woman answering the phone for graduate English. She knows who I am now, too. Anyway, she told me not to worry, that most of the applications had been read, but not all. And although they had made a few acceptances, they hadn't finished, and were still reading.
Hope that helps. Not a lot to go on, and for all I know she could be leading me on because I'm rejected. But both times she's taken my name and checked the status of my application. I tend to trust her because she's really kind.
OH! And DFW I forgot to say that they told me that (at least for Nonfiction) they hoped to be notifying by the end of the week, although it's possible that they'll be pushed into March. I'm taking that to mean that we'll know SOON.
Is anyone thinking about applying to some additional programs with later deadlines? I actually am not aware of any except BU (3/1), and am now considering that option, though it looks like the funding deadline has already passed.
Renewed hope. Chrissy, you're my girl.
@Hobo Bobo
I sent in my BU application earlier today (next day shipping = eighteen dollars). If you can get it all together in time, I say why not go for it. I do, however think that seventy dollars is ridiculous for an application fee.
Also, on the funding note, and I could be wrong about this, but I believe that the deadline you are talking about is only for specific fellowships. It was my understanding that the regular funding (for assistantships and what not) is still being considered with submissions by the March 1st deadline. Best of luck to you and all.
@Tracy
Seems like you're in good company. Add me to the group. I'm 21, turning 22 in June.
Ohmygosh. If we're digging out the crazy workshop stories, I have to give a shout out (if one can shout out to a book) to 'The Writing Class' by Jincy Willett. (Then read the author's blog.) It is brilliant. Hilarious. Great genre writing. Would love to do a workshop with her.
http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Class-Jincy-Willett/dp/B0033AGT40/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267075790&sr=8-1
and:
http://www.jincywillett.com/journal/
@thanks Daffron we'll just wait and I so wish you the same.
Brad Smith brings the HTMLGIANT win.
@DFW Haha. You're welcome! Obviously, I'm one of those super annoying people who annoy the programs! But, really, she was very kind. I apologized for calling again (it was my second call, and she remembered me from before), and she said, "I understand. It's so hard to wait. I can understand your nerves."
I seriously love this woman. She makes me want to go there! Nicest person on the other end of the phone thus far! (And I've made a TON of calls...whoops.)
@Tracy
Yep, me too...21 right now, turning 22 (and graduating) in June!
Anyone else irrationally psyched at not having gotten a Syracuse rejection yet?
Grasping for straws...
Since I have now resorted to tarot and sunsign forecasts: All Pisceans according to Susan Miller there is some hope -
The universe has not forgotten you, dear Pisces! Quite the opposite, the universe is about to take very good care of you and shower you with reward for all you've been through. In a way, it's good you had the hard stuff first - Saturn, Uranus, the eclipses, all reaching back as far as 2006. Now, having paid all your dues, you are moving into an extraordinary year of pleasure, travel, career success and money.
Glad I'm not alone being young! I just turned 22 in January and had to write my age for the first time since my birthday today. That's always such a weird moment every year.
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