It's only been a few days since the last mailbag, but as we near 1,000 comments, it seems like a good time for a fresh one.
Congratulations to those who've heard good news from programs, and best wishes to everyone still waiting. Remember, it's still very early.
1,073 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1073 Newer› Newest»@Leslie
Yeah, I know what you mean. I've learned there are always options. I've no partner, no kids, just a dog. A sweet one. I was down for the count for a long time - after some stuff that I don't feel comfortable posting on the world wide web. There, finally, I said why I'm private - or at least hinted at it. (-; This group is so amazing.
Anyway, I'm up and ready for the next challenge - so many difficult odds, but I'm used to it.
My ex from many years ago had two little girls who I helped raise for three years. They are now in their thirties, (really? thirties? yes. wow) (she was way too old for me, almost a cradle robber, but the kids were great.)
Hi everyone. I am soooo rooting for a Kaybay and Dreux hookup. Haven't seen this much drama since Knots Landing.
I see that there are some people to congratulate - Congrats, Lauren; Congrats Danielle! I'll have a drink on your behalf(s).
Ryan - I applied to six or seven schools last year, rather haphazardly, with a rather scruffy sample. I managed to eke out one acceptance (no funding) and six flat out rejections. So the difference this time around is: planning. I sat down last summer, and really thought about what I wanted my sample to be like. I also put a bit more research into schools (faculty, funding, etc.). I still procrastinated into putting together everything last minute (late LORs; errors in the sample; missing GREs - the whole shebang). But still, everything came out decidedly more composed than last year.
I should send you last year's sample for a good laugh.
Music - I love music, but most of what I listen to is so somber (any Nina Simone fans here?). I do luv classic reggae tho - Alton Ellis, Bob Marley ... ooh and Millie Smalls ("My Boy Lollipop, you make my heart go giddy up!")
Glad to see this blog is still alive and kicking. Best of luck to any and all who are weathering the storm. Thought I'd offer up myself as a resource to any Hollins applicants. I finished up there this past Spring and would be happy to answer any questions folks have about the place. Just shoot me an email (see profile for e-dress).
Weather the storm, all! The waiting will all be over in about 6 weeks! Until then: chaos and uncertainty.
Luke
The sniping between Kaybay and Dreux makes me le sad.
re: flirting
I would compare--to date myself A LOT, but for the senior citizens it might make sense--the budding Kaybay/Dreux storyline to the brief TV phenomenon Moonlighting. "Maddie" and "David" pretended to hate each other but really had the hots for one another; Cybil Shepard and Bruce Willis just hated each other.
Moonlighting...that show was genius!
Well, not genius, but they had great chemistry. Until they hooked up. Then it was over. :D
lol kaybay!
So here's my pseudo opinion on long distance relationships. Have I ever been in one? Yes! Two of them actually and they were both successful until we were in the same vicinity of each other. It's weird, it was like (in both instances) now that we could have each other whenever we wanted, we either started to take each other for granted or get sick of each other's presence.
So what's everyone's expert opinion on that? Does that mean long distance relationships are "stupid" or maybe it means that long distance relationships are a different beast than "regular" relationships. You have to be willing to have faith in your counterpart, and there is no sexual gratification, only mental. Certain types of people would not be able to do this. Does it make him/her weak? Maybe, I dunno. Maybe long distance relationships will only endure if you are truly in love. I know that in both instances, I was deeply in love and no other man could compare to the one I had across the country.
...or does it mean I have commitment issues?
Oh gawd!!
@ Ryan:
Last time I applied (in 2006), I applied to 5 programs. This year, I’ve applied to 8. Other than the obvious difference of having three more years of writing under my belt, the main thing I did differently this time was involve other people in my writing sample selection process. I emailed eight possible writing samples out to a variety of people whose opinions I respect as readers, writers, and educators, and asked everyone to rank them 1-8. Then I used a spreadsheet to assign a numerical value to each sample and sent the top three out with my applications (after further polishing, of course). I really do think this made a difference, as there were some obvious trends in people’s preferences that did not necessarily line up with my personal opinions. I agreed with my reviewers on one of the top three, disagreed on another one, and was sort of somewhat in agreement on the third.
But after some thought and distance I had to realize that the reasons I was hanging on to some of the lower ranked stories was not due to their quality, but rather to things I had experienced and felt while I wrote them, leading to an emotional attachment that was unrelated to their strength.
I’ve reached a point now (after working and reworking my samples) where I feel confident in all of the top three, but I have to say that all these early acceptances people are posting about here (congratulations, by the way!) are making me feel irrationally anxious about my applications. I say irrationally, because none of the programs that have sent out acceptances so far are ones I applied to, but it still makes me feel like… I don’t know. Like a decision is imminent, or like I was already rejected, or like I didn’t do something I was supposed to. Of course I am totally thrilled that people on this blog are killing it on the acceptances, but I would really like to get in somewhere, too!
I know I don’t post often, but I find these discussions very entertaining and they are making the waiting easier.
Oh, sorry, I didn't see your comment earlier, Dreux, I applied in fiction to the following programs:
-UCF (wah, wah, wahhhhh...)
-Florida
-Florida State
-Alabama
-UNC Greensboro (my sample is also "in committee" haha)
-Vanderbilt (psh, 1% chance of being admitted)
-Notre Dame
-Cornell
-Iowa
-McNeese State
-Syracuse
Here's to hope!
And, anyone that would like to trade samples that has not yet done so with me, email me at kbritten(at)yahoo(dot)com
This blog is turning into OK! magazine.
Okay, I've just copied Lauren and checked my status at most of my schools. The most I could get was "in process."
I still love the Smiths. I am old enough to have seen the Psychedelic Furs in concert. That makes me 41. And my first concert ever was the B-52s.
My favorite Magnetic Fields song is Strange Powers, which I first heard in the documentary Tarnation.
I'm distracting myself with extra long yoga workouts, more library books and trash TV. Oh, and I got an oil change today.
I just finished Stephen Elliott's My Girlfriend Comes to the City and Beats Me Up. The Adderall Diaries is also a great Elliott read. I'm just starting Lorrie Moore's Self-Help and Ted Conover's New Jack:Guarding Sing Sing. Plus two yoga books.
Add a healthy sprinkling of Hoarders, Intervention and What Not to Wear and I am fully distracted. But not really.
@4mai
Did we trade yet? I'm not sure.
@Ryan
I posted this months ago but here it is again:
Last year I applied to 10. This year I applied to 12 (7 of which I did not apply to last year). I don't think I did anything differently this year EXCEPT do way more research on programs (i.e. reading the work of faculty and recent alumni) and applying to more programs that may welcome the kind of stories I write.
Obviously, no one can know for certain what a professor is or is not going to like but this method gave me a general direction and at least a very small idea of whether or not I'd find kindred spirits among fellow classmates or faculty. In other words, I think I was more honest about what kind of work I want to produce and which programs would or would not be a right fit (or at least flexible enough as far as my interest go). Last year I sent work that I thought programs wanted to see vs. what I actually wanted to write.
I know applying to only top 50 (mostly top 25) programs is a gamble. But I'm confident in my abilities, and I've been writing long enough to know that a rejection often has no bearing on the quality of a story. I got rejected from all programs last year (w/ a couple of wait lists). Did it suck? Hell yeah. But what can you do? You can either sit in your misery, thinking about what could have been or you can continue to write and read and write and read. I'm crossing my fingers this year, but I know that even if you write like an old master with prizes crowding the mantle, you can still be rejected. A lot of people applied this year, and while many of those people probably aren't writing up to snuff, a good many are promising and some are probably damn good. No one knows what the ratio is and that's a big contributor to the anxiety people have on this blog.
Someone shared this on Zoe recently, and I think it's definitely applicable to MFA applicants:
JK Rowling Commencement at Harvard `08
http://vimeo.com/1711302
OMG - Moonlighting. That's genius!
Dreux and Kaybay - you keep the hope of love alive.
@beedeecee
Well, they all say that GPA's have to pass throigh the grad school minimums. The reason I think UMich is especially strict about that is that they are a top graduate school internationally, for science and technology especially, and so they will be concerned about statistics like GPA of incoming grad students. It's relevant for grants and research awards and such. And also, that they have this dual process, where Rackham has to approve the English Dept's recommendation.
But I really could be talking out of my ass. I have a gut feeling about it. I really didn't mean to cause alarm. I spoke out of turn, 'cause, I actually don't KNOW. Don't sweat it at this point. Please.
@Leslie- I was on Inisheer the last week in October. I stayed at Ostan Inis Oirr whch was connected to a pub. The other pub was already closed for the winter! We actually got the last of the good weather. It rained only one day, but it was super damp. I want to read that short story when its done! I went to Inish Mor when I was studying in Dublin, so that just leaves Inish Maan. Guess I'll have to go back:)
@Jasmine-I flew from Galway up to Edinburgh and went up to Glen Affric and Inverness for a week. It was beautiful. I didn't make it to Glasgow, but I hope you get to study there!! Those Scottish accents are hot, too. Everyone sounds like Gerard Butler!
Haha this blog is just hillarious...I sincerely hope I end up at a program with some of you next year!
kaybay, I'm emailing you a sample (not one of the samples I submitted to programs, just something short I recently started..)
Anyone who wants to send me their sample(s), email me at sdeyoreo[at]uci[dot]edu
@kaybay - We applied to seven of the same schools. Hmmm. Does that mean I'm going to have to watch you and Dreuxl holding hands in workshop? Blech.
And I never received any notice that my application is "in committee" at UNCG. Somebody call me a whaaaaaambulance. :P
Cheers!
Mostly Swell,
I didn't apply to Michigan this year, but in my research last year, I came across something on their website that stated that Michigan did not have a minimum GPA requirement and, in some cases, would take in other factors in lieu of a GPA if the student had been out of school for more than X number of years.
@WT
Oh yeah - I love that speech - she says so much - and it flushes out her motives behind so much of what happens in the books. Oppressive societies and such. "Rock bottom was the solid foundation upon which I built my life."
YES!!!! I burned the audio on a CD and play it when I need extra inspiration.
@mostly swell: no worries at all! i was just curious as to what i'd missed by not reading clearly. thanks for your thoughts. you could very well be right. makes sense to me. and i knew that my gpa could come back to haunt me. i just wish i'd thought about that when i was skipping classes and otherwise fucking around for the better part of undergrad. ah, well - you live, you learn. and i do think things will end up as they should - for all of us. :)
By the way, my boyfriend and I have had a running joke for a while, based on something a colleague told me. She's an English teacher at the high school I work at. She had her freshmen write a short story as an assignment, and a girl turned in a copied and pasted version of Hansel and Gretel, but changed the names to Bob and Jane. Haha.
So, my boyfriend told me that I should rewrite Twilight, but change the names, and title it "Shilight" or something. How funny would that be to be reading writing samples and come across that? It would almost make it worth the cost just to get a giggle out of the adcoms.
Ahhh, I'm slowly losing my mind.
@Cratty
Yes, Nina Simone. I saw her in concert in Athens (Greece) years ago - in one of their outdoor natural amphitheaters, as in, surrounded by rocks.
work song
see-line woman
strange fruit
mississippi goddamn
love me or leave me
and all the rest!!
and someone posted Bessie Smith. Nice
VTech! I'm in!
whoa, nadiya - that was quick! wasn't your interview just a few hours ago? congrats!!
Frankish, I never told you that I loved your sample! I loved your subtle statement on sin and religion. Like I said, I don't think there will be hand-holding going on, although this has been strangely fun. Good luck, I would be honored to be admitted to the same program as you :)
whoah, I leave and shit happens! (Maybe I should leave more often? Oh, depressing.)
Congrats Nadiya, Danielle, Dolores, Cratty (again!), and anyone else I missed!!!
YAAAAAAAAY!!!!
Kaybay,
Copying Twilight might guarantee a rejection though! Unless the faculty on admissions committees have a thing for sparkly, "Dawson's Creek" vampires.
Mostly Swell,
Marry me. If only so I could lie next to you at nights and hear you recount that story over and over again.
Love me, love me, love me say you do. Let me fly away with you . . . for my love is like the wind; and wild is the wind - so wild is the wind. (Oh, Nina . . . )
Congrats Nadiya!
Congratulations Nadiya!!
Congrats Nadiya!
@Nadiya
Whoa!!!!! Great - so your interview must have went well. Good job. Such good news today.
I really should go eat.
Jason J
GREAT TUNES!!! I'm enjoying the list. Nice beats. Thanks.
OK, I think I'm getting way to over the top sappy. I'm gonna go eat. whew!!
@ Jason J: you rock! (Or, as one of my former students would say, "You're tits, man." I so rarely get to use that.)
Re: age. I will be 24 in April. I have an irrational fear of 14 rejection notices arriving on my birthday.
I would like to see kaybay & Dreux participate in either
a) a fiction writers' version of a slam poetry battle
or
b) some sort of literary version of MFA Blog Celebrity Deathmatch.
Eh?
I hope they'd reject a Twilight recopy!! It would be worth it though I think. Maybe I'd send it to Vanderbilt, since it's free, and just to piss them off for having such a low acceptance rate.
I'm kidding Vanderbilt, accept me please!
@Cratty
er hem, remind me of your gender? But, ya know, we could have special arrangements. (:
Also yay, Nadiya!
DigAPony, haha, that's the first time someone's ever said "You're tits!" to me. Awesome.
Congrats Nadiya!
What kind of stuff did they ask you in the interview? (if you don't mind my asking.)
I think we should give kaybay a break here. As in, ease off. Maybe you didn't see that early encounter. It was not nice - and hasn't been ever since, but on the first was the worst. I would not want t o be in the same town if they were in the same workshop.
let her be - OK, now I'm really gonna go eat my din-din
Mostly Swell, I'm male. Sometimes I try to pull one over on ppl, but my scrotum often gives me away. Was I wrong in assuming you're a lady? Would it matter anyway? (for a Nina fan, I'd make some serious concessions)
@Mostly
It had something to do with the friend account---I would request it, they would send me my link and I'd go enter my email and I'd get an error saying I needed to request a friend acct. Horrid cycle. So, I just gave up. I figure it really isn't worth much anyway--if I get in, someone better be contacting me. ;)
Wandering Tree-we have not! Let us do the deed >D
I love JK Rowling. People laugh when I say she's one of my favorite writers, but she is.
It isn't Harry Potter that makes me want to drop to my knees and bow at her feet. It's her determination, will and faith in herself that strike my heart. If I could ask her anything, it would be, how did you know that this was the path God set for you? And if she's anything like my own mother, she'll tell me to take my ass to church.
And of course - Awesome, Nadiya! How did you like the guys you interviewed with? The prospect was so nerve-racking, but I have to admit, it's a good way to get to know the people you might end up working with.
@Cratty
Yes, but queer. I really was in love with a man once - and we were talking of marriage - and this was after I knew I was gay - just so you know I'm open minded - but I just couldn't do it. (As in, ya know, just couldn't.) And then, he got pissed - and even got suicidal. I swear I told him. But I guess his hard-on kept him from hearing anything. Go figure. I lost a good friend when that relationship ended. Sad.
I can't catch up on these posts!!! I'll be back!
On the other hand... STEPHANIE MEYER. *smacks forehead*
As pursuers of greater knowledge and perfectionists of the writing craft, I must know how you all feel about the Twilight phenomenon.
Thanks everyone! :-)
beedeecee - Yes it was! Am still in shock.
Riah - they asked about writing influences, themes, a couple of questions that had derived from my SOP, a bit about my local/cultural context in relation to my writing (English isn't my first language), teaching. I can't remember what else - was too nervous :0)
Cratty - they were fantastic. For the most of the time it didn't feel like an interview at all - just a quite pleasant conversation.
I refuse to read them/see them/buy anything with vamps on it.
I applied to Fiction programs at:
Adelphi
Brooklyn College
New Hampshire
Iowa
Florida
Miami
I also applied to an MA program in with a concentration in creative writing at the University of Hawaii at Manoa.
***
My only regret is not applying to Brown (the application deadline was too soon).
Other than that, I'm feeling optimistic about this whole process (which, as you all know, was outrageously expensive!)
Yay Nadiya! Congrats!
Oh, I hate the vampire thing! I really don't get it. I don't understand! I am happy that younger people are reading, but I also wonder if it's just dumbing them down to the point that they're incapable of reading anything else. It's so sad to watch teenagers grumble over Shakespeare and scream over vampires :(
A sad realization was when I entered my first creative writing undergrad course and the majority--I mean literally 85% of what I read from my peers pertained to vampires and other mystical characters. Don't get me wrong--I can appreciate good writing in any genre--but when it's the majority focus..no thank you.
Ah Mostly, what does sex matter? Music is so much more orgasmic. Can't the rhythm of our hearts take us to a place where rocks and mountains flow? Where clouds perch atop rolling hills and watch us stream across the sky, billowing and bursting then curling again in the downy clasp of a nebulous haze?
Or maybe you could keep me in a drawer somewhere until you need me, so we could share stories about fountains in Rome and boxing in back alleys in Paris . . . or maybe I'm kidding myself.
Congrats to Lauren, Nadiya, Danielle and Dolores. Let me get this straight, UCF, VT, Syracuse? Very nice. Good job, guys.
Giving congrats here is a true exercise in short term memory skills.
I have no problems with vampires or mystical characters per se. I mean, a lot of my stories have elements of the magical and mystical, BUT when they are being conveyed through poor, melodramatic writing (i.e. the werewolf entered my bedchamber and ravished me until dawn), I have to protest.
congrats to everyone on their acceptances!
Jason J, thanks for the music! nice to have some new tunes to distract me while I wait...
@Abbie
hmmm, I wonder if you used a different e-mail address than the one they have on file for you. You could contact tech support. I get it, though, that you can wait. Just an idea.
@Cratty
You make me laugh. Thanks. I told you we could make special arrangements. But I didn't apply to VTech. ):
We'll still have to think about a trip somewherez. I haven't been to Europe in a long time. I've had Russia on my mind. Lakes. Big Lakes. They're gonna own the world's water supply when we run out elsewhere. (If they can manage to keep what's still clean, clean.)
@Cratty
PS I'm thinkin we're way more compatible than those who shall not be named in the same post.
Mostly Swell,
Italy has messed up the relationships (old and new) of many of my friends in the most unfortunate ways.
@JasonJ
The Decmberists' song sounds like the Traveling Wilbury's when it starts.
@WT
Thanks. Hear that Cratty. Nix Italy.
Somebody told me Colin Meloy (of the Decemberists) has an MFA from Montana. Considering the narrative qualities of his songs and the fact that his sister is a best selling author, I'm inclined to believe it without further research.
Yeah, Mostly, you're someone I'd love to meet. I'm not sure I'd want Russia to be our first trip, tho. I dunno if this would result in a discrepancy between us, but I love cities, so I'd love to see St. Petersburg, for instance - but the great lakes . . . blargh. (I was reading Anna Karenina the other day - the allusions to the lakes and mountains and farms were nice and all, but talk about overkill). I want to see the gritty, cobbled, crowded side of Europe first . . . Western Europe, so Italy needs to be a part of it.
WT,
http://www.umt.edu/montanan/w09/making.asp
Cratty,
Italian men aren't the only threat. One of my friends ended up having his relationship turned upside down compliments of a guy from Mexico. Just another day at work for the Latin Lover eh?
Dudes, in all seriousness I am probably the most diplomatic and empathic member of most workshops I'm in. I'm just not one to mince words or apologize for my opinions. I've taught/facilitated a lot of workshops as well as participated in them, and not only have I never had any sort of complaints about my attitude, but I know for a fact my demeanor in those settings is one of my strengths as a student and a member of writing communities.
Maybe I let it fly a little quicker here because it's the internets, but oh well.
I, of all people, am willing to forgive. Water under the bridge. Especially since you're a fellow high school teacher, you get insulted enough as it is.
@Cratty
Maybe if we start in Italy, before our relationship really takes off. We'll let it take off later. I adore Firenze.
@WT and Cratty
if other men are the issue, no problem. We already have that one figured out. And, BTW, Greek men are the worst!!! Really scary.
I asked someone about it, they said they think all American women are like what they see from Hollywood movies. HA!
@Ashley
cool article. Thanks
@ Abbie
I was very, very relieved that in my undergrad workshops, genre writing was NOT allowed! Well-done magical realism was encouraged for those interested. The philosophy was, if you can learn to write literary fiction well, you can apply those skills to any genre writing you do in the future. Of course, that didn't stop a plethora of terrible stories from appearing, but still.
Also, I despise the Twilight phenomenon. I agree with Kaybay- what is the point of being excited that people are reading more if what they're reading is garbage? And even worse, they're unaware that it's garbage, and Twilight becomes the extent of their literary education. An entire world of excellent literature out there that happens NOT to subscribe to any popular trends gets ignored. (Sorry for all the generalizations. I know there are exceptions.)
I will admit to watching the first movie, though. Boyfriend and I just had to see how BAD it was. We laughed the whole way through- it was hilarious!
@Cratty
OK, mi amore, I'm going to go finish reading "Copenhagen"
I'll check in later.
G'night, Mostly :)
DigApony.
When I first saw Twilight, my first thought was, "How does body glitter equal vampire? Wouldn't people just think he was either really effeminate or going to a rave?"
That idea about literary fiction being better than genre fiction is bunk. I say that as a literary fiction writer who has a deep distaste for genre fiction.
Literary fiction is a genre in itself, with its own tired conventions. Furthermore, given its the genre of choice at pretty much every academic institution that teaches writing, it is perhaps the most bloated genre of the day, containing the largest, slushiest midsection.
Good literary fiction is better than bad genre fiction. Good genre fiction is better than bad literary fiction. Whether good genre fiction is better than good literary fiction is a matter of taste.
Let me put it to you this way: for those of you who have seen The Wire-- do you like it? Do you consider it 'literary?' It was written by genre (mystery) writers and is pretty purely mystery writing from a screenplay perspective.
The other thing about young people and reading (I say "young people" like I'm a grandma or something, ha), is that there are many good stories out there that they can relate to. I mean, reading "Catcher and the Rye" was like an experience for me in high school. Oddly, I also loved "The Things they Carried," partly because my teacher said the swear words aloud in class, which I thought was so rebellious. I was born and raised into the "reading is boring" generation, but still managed to have a genuine experience with several books. I don't see that in too many high schools? Maybe because some districts/teachers are not willing to take risks? I don't know...
So I applied to nine schools:
Portland State University
Eastern WA University
San Diego State University
University of Arizona
University of Texas at Austin
University of Maryland
The New School
Emerson
Syracuse
I haven't heard anything from any of them, aside from, "We received all of your materials!"
I applied to two schools last year and was rejected in late February. I didn't know that they sent acceptances early and that it's therefore a bad sign if you don't hear anything SOON. Ugh. BRB, having a panic attack!
Seriously, this whole process has been terrible for my health.
I was able to avoid much of the "genre"--be it literary or otherwise--by partaking in mostly poetry and nonfiction workshops (which I favor ten-fold anyway). But, yes. I see your point. And still veto Twilight.
Dreux - right on about the literary/genre fiction thing.
Dude, Twilight sucks.
Like, worse than Harry Potter. Which is hard.
Just to clarify, I really enjoy a lot of genre fiction. But I felt that its elimination from the workshops I participated in made it easier to focus on learning craft.
I also appreciated my poetry workshop teacher announcing that we would not be allowed to write poems that rhymed (as in ababab etc. the whole way through- sporadic creative rhyme was cool), because doing it well is very difficult, and it was an intro class.
@ WT
I'm thinking it's gotta be a calculated manipulation of the adolescent girl's penchant for glitter. Stephenie Meyer must have hung out at Claire's for research.
Oh, someone mentioned waaay earlier not getting an email about UNC Greensboro. I actually caved and emailed the director, and he said that they are sending the confirmation emails in cycles. SO, please don't contact him (I'll feel really bad for being the cause of all those emails). You'll get your email in the near future, it has nothing to do with the sample, I don't even think they've read it yet.
I thought I was the only person who went to Claire's for inspiration.
re: Twilight phenom
Someone mentioned watching the movies for a good laugh. Well, I tried to be open minded when I popped the DVD in. What threw me off about it was that absolutely nothing happened for 90 minutes.
The movie consisted of cut scenes to the student parking lot, doe eyed glances, slow motion running, some Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon tree crab walking and a baseball game.
It made me question what reading the book was like.
That is absolutely hilarious. I love baseball. Still not worth it.
Any gambles on which school will notify next? I'm completely vulnerable. Arms wide open--take me. Want me. Love me. Or...don't. Just give me money and let me live with you for a couple of years. I'm easy.
I have to get away from this blog for a moment. Perhaps I'll finally go through my big stack of CDs (remember those?) under my desk and finally stick them onto itunes. I have several CDs helpfully labeled "Road Trip 1" or "Study Music Mix 2". I haven't listened to this stuff in years. My undergraduate college did a good job of turning straight men into lesbians (as far as musical taste is concerned). And with that, I'm going to rock out with Dar Williams and Brenda Weiler for a while.
Sunfish,
Ah, sounds lovely! I did a semester in Galway and it was enough to make me call it my home for the rest of my life. But one of my favorite nights in Ireland was a spontaneous trip to Dublin just so I can see one of my favorite irish songwriters (Declan O'Rourke!), who I even got to meet and, in a odd turn of events, he was the one telling me that he loved me (booze may have been involved). Man, the Dublin nightlife...insane. But the best part of the town are the motherfraking crazyass children, in their tracksuit pants and gold necklaces---I saw 3 rosy-cheeked, ten year old lads, sitting on the curb, drinkers Bulmers and listening to rap music on a giant boombox. God bless Ireland.
Leslie, I never met that woman, but I did meet the crazy purple lady of Salthill! Good times!
And Danielle, I'm going to tell you congrats again, since I called you Daniel the last time! :)
And Nadiya, major contrats as well! If we both end up at VT... it'll be awesome, I'm sure! The faculty are just so damn lovely!
Have you Ireland-talking folks heard of NUI Galway's summer writers' workshop? I went in 2005 through University of Arkansas and it was one of the best things I ever did. You can get either grad or undergrad credit with this. I made amazing friends and had such a wonderful time. I suppose the actual classes and workshops were good too :P
http://www.nuigalway.ie/international_summer_school/writers_course.html
And, if anyone already linked to this, sorry I missed it!
Arg, it's not letting me put down the whole link!
If anyone feels like some copy/paste fun, the rest of the link is this:
/writers_course.html
@WT
I'm back. You make me laugh. Turning straight men into lesbians. I think there was something about that on L-Word, many seasons ago, I stopped watching that trash long ago. GAWD. Anyways, Dar Williams, lesbian music? Really? Is that the CD with her sticking out her jaw-breaker blue tongue? Or are you talkin' Lilith Fair tour? Yeah, I guess that was a lesfest. I didn't make it, but I have all three releases. (-;
I'm not an aficionada on L music - but, it's a safe bet to say if there's not at least some Indigo Girls on the playlist, it ain't a lesbo playlist. But what do I know? Afterall, I don't even watch L-Word!! LOL. Maybe I'm not the "real" thing.
@Gena
Ah, "Copenhagen" sucked my breath right out of me - couldn't breathe for those final pages. Just cried. I shouldn't have been surprised. It's more like I was so engrossed in the story, the turn caught me off guard. Fabulous writing. wow.
If you enjoyed the physics in that, I think you'd enjoy "The Universe in a Single Atom" by HH Dalai Lama. He rips all the theories up and holds them next to Buddhist teachings, which he also rips up - and finds where they match. I learned so much - and still do, whenever I read or listen to it. It's one of those "rules of the universe" sort of books to be read when you're wondering or wandering or lost. Very grounding.
OK, nighty night you youngin's. Did someone really refer to the older adults on this blog as "old timers"??? That's good. I suppose it's fitting that call you "whipper snappers." (;
@WT
so, I should clarify - lesbian musicians whose music is at the top of my list:
Mary Gauthier
The Ditty Bops
@ the other Ryan (or one of the other Ryans)
I applied to 4 programs last year, (GMU, Hollins, UGA, and UNCG)which was idiotic not only because I picked them at random, but because I was finishing my last semester of college and applying to MFAs then is not what I recommend to most people for several reasons. Got rejected all around, and only used a single VERY edited poem in my new sample that was in last year's. I had a very hard time picking what to edit for my sample this year, mostly because I read and wrote like a fiend this past year and never edited until the fall. Compared to last year, my sample is phenomenal, but that doesn't mean anything for the collective app pool. It could still suck. That said, I don't get totally depressed when looking at it.
I'm sure I read somewhere West Virginia's stipend was around $14,000. But on the website it's around 7-8k. Anyone know this is old information? Or does anyone attend WVU?
Jasmine!
That summer program is one of the main reasons I'm applying to the University of Arkansas! I thought their special affiliation with the Irish school was a sign that I belong there! And Texas State too, I think, lets you do that program (which is, again, 1 of 2 reasons I applied; the other was ZZ Packer). Man, my semester was in the Fall, but I am itching to do that program because of one man: Louis de Paor. Did you get a chance to take classes with him? He's such an amazing Irish-language poet and the director of their Irish studies department. I had one class with him during my time abroad and it was mindblowing. The only time a teacher has ever made me cry---he was reciting one of his favorite MáirtÃn Ó Cadhain poem. I died. I still have dreams about him. That man's voice and his language, whew. And his lion-mane hair. And he wears bomber jackets. Yes. Okay. I'm going to stop now! But, really, my future plans include doing an Irish Studies MA under him. I love me some Irish women's poetry....and I love him talking about it.
Jasmine, did you go to UofArkansas or did you just do the abroad program through it? If the former, can you tell me anything about its English Department? I'd be so appreciative!
If not, feel free to add to my pathetic nostalgia by telling me about your trip! :D
Anyone know how/when they notify wait listed folk? Immediately, with acceptances? Via phone? E-mail?
@ Mostly Swell
Ha! I hoped you'd like it! I actually read it originally for a college course-- and had to discuss it with uninterested undergrads. I was absolutely bursting with comments, observations, praise-- and the tenor of the rest of the class: "We don't get it. The narrative's too confusing."
You're Dalai Lama suggestion is actually quite apt for the time... I'm taking a class on "Culture of Religion and Science" for the hell of it-- exploration of the boundaries of and dialogue between science and religion. I'll pick it up.
@Dreux Re: Genre vs. Literary Fiction
I have to respectfully disagree. I think you make some good points though. The publishing world does consider literary fiction to be a genre. I also agree with you that good genre fiction is harder to write than bad literary fiction. No doubt about that. However, I contend that great literary fiction is the pinnacle of writing, much more so than a great genre novel.
As a person who wrote “hard” genre for many years, I have to say that literary fiction deserves all the respect it demands. I also believe that literary fiction should be the emphasis in any academic setting. I’m not saying genre writing should be banned, but literary fiction should be the emphasis. Why? Because literary fiction is harder to do well. Set the bar high. Make the students think, not just dream.
How can we define genre fiction and literary fiction? Generally, literary fiction is about the human experience or about ideas that relate to the human experience. It teaches us about ourselves and our world. Genre fiction’s sole purpose is to provide an effect. Horror scares. Thrillers thrill. Action excites. SciFi evokes wonder. Etc…
So let’s take vampire stories for example:
A story about vampires – Genre.
A story about the human experience with vampires in it – Literary fiction.
Here’s another example:
Man/Bug battles super villains – Spiderman.
Man/Bug slowly loses his humanness – Kafka’s “The Metamorphosis.”
Whenever there is a blur and you’re not sure if it’s literary fiction or genre fiction, it’s literary fiction. Chabon, Lethem – literary fiction. The Wire, if it were a book, literary fiction … urban crime literary fiction, but still literary fiction. The Wire is basically a character study, and the main character is the city of Baltimore.
Twilight, Harry Potter, Grisham, Dan Brown – genre. I do not look down on these books/authors. They each have something that makes them unique. No one else could do what they do. However, that special thing they each have is not their great “writing.”
There is nothing wrong with genre fiction. I like genre fiction. But it’s not as difficult to do well, and it’s not as difficult to read. Reading genre fiction is passive, like watching TV. Reading literary fiction is an exercise of the mind.
Writing genre only requires a great imagination and some storytelling ability. Literary fiction requires the same things, but it also requires wisdom, honesty, courage, intelligence and much more. That’s not to say genre writers don’t have those attributes, it just means those attributes are not required to sell books.
@ Sam--
I disagree that the difference between writing that concerns the human condition and writing that does not is the difference between literary vs. genre writing. To me, it's one of the differences between good and bad writing. Disclaimer: I'm a fantasy lover, but write "li-fi", I suppose. I'd take Tolkien's means of addressing the human condition over Charles Dickens's any day of the week. "Hard" fantasy, in that it adheres more strictly to a code of genre-conduct, is not without concerns and analysis of human life and experience-- in fact, most fantasy does this extremely well because it is a sort of human experience taken to extremes-- an experimental playground, rampant with possibilities, if you will.
And literary fiction is a genre in much more than just the concerns of publishing. It has its own requirements and tropes, and, when badly done, is inane and trite, just like a bad genre novel. At the risk of drawing ire, an example: I hated An Arsonist's Guide to Writers' Homes in New England, which I feel few to none would argue is "genre" fiction. We had the prerequisite suburbia gone wrong, with a protagonist who had never been quite right. We had the ghost of the inevitable infidelity. We even had the sprinkling of meta-fiction. Now, I realize you said "good" literary fiction is superior... but this points out that imagined "parameters" of literary fiction can lead to worse, rather than better (maybe li-fi, maybe sci-fi) prose.
All of which is to say: A person who writes an excellent book is praiseworthy. Period. Not any less so for the decision to make a character a demi-god, or let two characters marry in the end.
Sam,
What you seem to be talking about is Literary fiction vs. Commercial Fiction - not Genre. I've read genre fiction that possesses all of the good qualities you named in reference to literary fiction. Especially Horror. Fear is certainly part of the human experience (and of course I don't mean "Boo! I just jumped out of a closet and scared you" kind of fear... I mean the kind that makes the bottom drop out of you and that makes you reassess who you think you are). I think bad genre is written quite a lot, but "genre" shouldn't necessarily mean "unsubstantial."
re: age
I'm 21, won't be 22 til June. Does that make me a baby?
re: genre/literary fiction
I'm going to have to side with Dreux on this one. Take Gene Wolfe--he writes incredibly dense, intricate, and beautiful genre fiction that most certainly appeals to the 'human condition' and all that. But it's *definitely* genre stuff. Michael Chabon, Jonathan Lethem, Dennis Lehane--genre writers all. And of course, it goes the other way too. I've read my share of literary fiction, even literary fiction other folks praise, that I found boring. This can't be 100% because I have bad taste. And of course we've all read literary stories in workshop that aren't grand.
There are good and bad writers; there is good and bad writing. There are no good and bad genres, or genres that are better or worse, either. It's the same with music--country may not be for you, rap may not be for you, but no one genre is inferior to the next. It's the same in film (quirky indie film, action-adventure, crime thriller, biopic) and in painting (impressionism, realism, cubism) and in every art form that's ever come or likely ever will. When serious artists take up a form, good work comes out of it. When they don't, it stagnates. That's all there is to it.
@sh
Haha I am 21 also, turning 22 in June...so don't worry, you are not alone :)
Last night I dreamed I got a letter offering me a $600 000 grant that I'd applied for. And I was like OMG so exciting, but then somehow thought that $600 000 wouldn't be enough money to pay for my MFA. Plus in the dream I hadn't even gotten into any MFA programs, and I was like, Oh no, what am I going to do with my $600 000? WHAT THE HELL, SUBCONSCIOUS.
@ Cratty and Mostly Swell -- Nina Simone YES. My car rejects all CDs, always. And then one day I put in Nina Simone and it played her exclusively for about 3 weeks. Have you heard the Cat Power cover of Wild is the Wind? It is lovely lovely lovely.
(Haven't read the most recent 50-60 comments yet, sorry if I'm busting in on some other topic of conversation. Will go catch up now!)
Michael Chabon, THE MAN HIMSELF, has a pretty interesting article about literary vs. genre fiction in Maps and Legends. (His book of essays.) Uh, I forget what his main point was, or I would summarize it. And I don't have the book handy because I was borrowing it from a friend. Embarrassing. But y'all should read it. He talks about Sherlock Holmes. Relevant!
Jason J, thank you so much for the mixtape. it looks fantastic!
Also, anyone else wish the application process worked more like this? http://pbfcomics.com/?cid=PBF049-Kinder_Interview.gif
Guess I'll go do something productive now. 3am insomnia blues.
Ahem. And Jason, extra props for that little bit of The Smiths. Perfect...
Oh, shit, and congratulations Lauren! YAY!!
"Twilight, Harry Potter, Grisham, Dan Brown – genre. I do not look down on these books/authors. They each have something that makes them unique. No one else could do what they do. However, that special thing they each have is not their great “writing.”"
Have to chime in on this, at the risk of drawing scorn and ridicule- I am a big Harry Potter fan, and just wanted to say that the great writing in that series is *precisely* what makes it special. I am not a fantasy reader otherwise, and when HP came out I wanted nothing to do with it- then I decided to see what all the hype was about, and I was hooked within a few pages. If the writing wasn't captivating, then I personally would not give a flying hoot about the exploits of a boy wizard.
In comparison, I've found Twilight excerpts and The Da Vinci Code laughable and unengaging, in large part because of the bad writing. I realize it all comes down to personal taste, and I acknowledge my own bias, but I had to speak up out of love for the HP series. (I feel like I just revealed something shameful, like, "Hi, I'm DigAPony, and I enjoy Harry Potter." Hopefully some other closet fans are out there lurking. Yes, you. I see you.)
Not to gang up on genre or anything. I have no particular interest in deciding the merits either way.. but THIS right here is funny, I don't care who you are...
http://www.bspcn.com/2009/09/19/author-dan-browns-20-worst-sentences/
Dan Brown's 20 Worst sentences...
These are all late responses...
@Kerry Headley- Read NewJack. A terrific book. Did you read his book about riding trains with hobos?
@Kaybay and her significant other Dreux-I wish you the best. I would love to bear witness to the blossoming of your relationships under George Saunders gaze.
@DigaPony-Agreed. Twilight encourages adults to read books that waste their life.
@Mostly Swell/Cratty- I also wish you luck on your blog originated romance. Perhaps you will end up in the same program as Kaybay and her soul mate Dreux.
@Dreux- I agree generally with the genre versus literary argument but literary can be bad enough and genre can be good enough to cross lines.
@everyone- 31 here. Not applied to anywhere before but have been researching and applying since Feb.
I also was thinking about how this blog will be thought of say 25 years from now. What would we make of Hemingway or O'Conner's blog posts? What would they write?
Hemingway: I applied to writing programs. It was stressful. I've been accepted. Best of luck.
Re: Literary Fiction vs. Genre
Thanks for everyone’s input. You guys bring up some interesting points. It’s very difficult to articulate just exactly what I’m saying, so bear with me.
Let me make this point clear: I am not saying that bad literary fiction does not exist. There’s plenty of it. Heck, bad literary fiction, in my opinion, is probably the worst thing in the world to read. I can get enjoyment out of a bad genre book, but I can’t get anything out of bad literary fiction.
Here’s another point I want to reemphasize: I am not saying genre is worthless. Writing great genre fiction is something I’ve never been able to accomplish, and I tried very hard. I haven’t written great literary fiction either, but the point I’m trying to make is that writing great genre fiction is not easy. No one is saying that it is. Certainly not me. But if you want to compare the two, they are not equal. Great literary fiction requires more from the writer than great genre. And I don’t mean mixed genre, like Literary Science Fiction, I mean straight up hard genre. I already said that in all gray areas, I consider mixed genre to be literary. So Literary Science Fiction is another form of literary fiction in my opinion.
Gena said: “"Hard" fantasy, in that it adheres more strictly to a code of genre-conduct, is not without concerns and analysis of human life and experience-- in fact, most fantasy does this extremely well because it is a sort of human experience taken to extremes-- an experimental playground, rampant with possibilities, if you will.”
The purpose of genre is not to analyze the human experience. The purpose of genre is to fulfill its goal. Of course, there are humans in genre, that’s how we relate to it. I’m not saying that genre is without human emotion or goals. But what is the focus? If the focus of Star Wars is to examine what happens when people are separated at birth from their siblings (Luke and Leia), then why do they have to blow up the Death Star? What does “The Force” have anything to do with broken families? How does saving the Ewoks shine new light on family dynamics? Obviously, that’s not the purpose of Star Wars. The purpose of Star Wars is to make a person dream, wonder, and feel excitement. Fantasy Science Fiction Action Adventure. That’s why people like me go totally geek for it.
Are there themes in genre? Of course. Do those themes relate to the human experience? Yes. But that’s just good storytelling. Human themes are necessary to keep us human beings interested, but those themes have nothing to do with giving us a new perspective of the world (our real world) and the people in it.
Here are some common themes in genre: Good defeats evil. Love conquers all. Is that news to anyone? Now let me take a quote from a book we’ve all read, Tom Kealy’s MFA handbook. Geoffrey Wolff of UC Irvine says, “Conventional writing about conventional wisdom is not going to claim any choosy readers’ attention.” The point I’m making is that anyone can make characters fall in love or fight the bad guy. But in our modern times, do those common themes really mean anything to us other than it’s fun to read between sword fights?
Continued in next post:
Cont'd
No one is saying that genre is bad and that people who read/write it are nits. What I’m saying is that great literary fiction is harder to write/read than great genre fiction. In terms of which of the two has more value, I’d even go so far as to say that great literary fiction has more value to humanity than great genre fiction. Of course, one person can like genre more than they can like literary fiction. Heck, just look at book sales. But since everyone here is a person who both writes and reads, let me ask you this question: Think of the best literary fiction novel you have ever read. Now think of the best genre fiction novel you have ever read. Now imagine aliens coming to the planet and saying they’re going to blow up Earth and humanity can only keep one work of fiction. It’s up to you to decide which book to save. Which book will best describe the human experience for the sake of posterity? What book do you want your children to read to learn about Earth and its inhabitants before it was obliterated?
This is why great literary fiction stands the test of time and why great genre fiction rarely ever does.
re: Dan Brown lines
Reading this makes me wonder whether he'd get into a top tier MFA program with lines like that!
Oh and I forgot about the music stuff: A good song for MFA acceptance season- The Wait by Built To Spill.
You wait
You wait
You wait for summer,
Then you wait for rain
You wait
You wait
You wait for darkness then you wait for day
Yeah, you wait
You wait
You wait
And she said patience, patience, darling
Patience, patience, it will come
You wait
You wait
You wait for August,
Then you wait for May
You wait
You wait
You wait to get up,
Then you wait to play
You wait
You wait
You wait for someone that'll make the waiting worth the wait
You wait
You wait
You wait
And she says patience, patience, darling
Patience, patience, it will come
Here's to hoping you'll all have something that'll make the waiting worth the way.
@Digapony
Rowling is a really good writer. I do not disagree with you. I think the only famous writer who completely sucks at prose is Dan Brown. When I said "writing" I put it in quotations for lack of a better way to express the amorphous idea of good writing. Rowling can definitely write. But what made her special was her ideas and her imagination. There are tons of better writers in the literary world but they will never even have a fraction of her success because they cannot match her storytelling or her billion dollar concept.
I am almost certain, that if she had written literary fiction instead of Harry Potter, she would not have lit the world on fire based solely on her "writing."
The Harry Potter novels are great. It's great genre fiction. It's not easy to write. I couldn't have done it, and the vast majority of Pulitzer Prize winners couldn't have done it. But when it comes to great literary fiction vs. great genre fiction, I would not compare Rowling to Hemingway or Faulkner or Kafka. And I guarantee you that Rowling, who is well versed in literature, wouldn't make those comparisons either.
@ Lauren & Nadiya
Huge congrats!
@ Elizabeth B
I don't know that there's one particular way schools tend to notify waitlistees. Last year, thought, when I was waitlisted at Ohio State, it was a couple of weeksish later via postal mail.
But who knows?
NM
Dolores:
I went through Arkansas. Molly Giles is a cool lady. The program was set up with two classes: Irish literature and poetry/fiction workshop. In Irish literature, we would have guest authors come speak to us, and one time it was Louis de Paor. I do recall that he was wonderful, but specific memories of that class are four and a half years in the past and fuzzy.
We had some great times, but I will admit that most of my memories have to do with the friends I made, our inside jokes, the trips we took, rather than the actual program. The program did take trips - one to Inishboffin, one to Coole Park and Yeats's house and one to Dog's Bay to visit an author who invited us to come over (and I'm mortified that I can't remember who he was anymore).
Nick McRae, I don't know if you're reading this, but I totally stalked you and saw that you had published fiction by Veronica Fitzpatrick. She and I were flatmates during this trip. She is a fantastically talented poet, a gorgeous person and incredible fun to be around. I miss her.
Correction: Poetry, you published poetry by Veronica Fitzpatrick. Sorry Nick. Arg, it's 6 am.
I like this discussion about lit vs genre fiction.
I like the L Word.
I love the Wire!
Wow, we've gotten to that point where the blog is either evolving or degenerating into ecupid or mfatch.com or something. who woulda thought.
kinda cute.
cratty, what island are you from?
nadiya, C O N G R A T S ! ! ! ! ! nice work. hope you're celebrating!
himbokal, perfect song reference....
this may be redundant news for a predictably etymologically-oriented group, but patience comes from the latin, pati, meaning... TO SUFFER (and to endure)
and suffer we do. and endure we shall! in solidarity. ciao.
@Lauren - Wow! I'm so excited about your news! It's not just your situation, but the way you expressed it, that really made me hope for you. It's still early in the process -- you might get into plenty more places -- but now that you're accepted somewhere, it's gotta take some of the killer pressure off. Even I feel an overwhelming sense of relief for you now and it's not my life! Congratulations!!!
@Cratty - Congratulations on your SECOND admit -- so far! I'm blown away by your news, too. Your situation, your having applied last year, made you another person that I was really, really crossing my fingers and toes for. And, of course, I already have crossed eyes, but anyway, you have some amazing acceptances and I-- and I-- and I'm cheeeeeeriiiiing for yoooooouuuuuuu!
@Dolores Humbert
@Gancho
@Danielle
@Nadiya
C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !
You're all living the MFA Season dream, getting accepted to crazy-selective spots early so that the rest is just icing on your cake. Rock on with you bad selves!
@NickMcRae - Congratulations! I know you haven't gotten any more acceptances in the past five minutes. But I don't want to get out of practice saying it, so that my "Congrats" muscle will still be strong for your next 15 acceptances. LOL! Rock on, you badass poet! Keep knockin em down and showin the rest of us how it's done. In seriousness, I just wanted to shout out to you to say that I truly admire you. You're a good guy. You've become somewhat of a leader around here and a generous provider of information. And I'm genuinely happy to have (virtually) met you.
@kaybay - It ain't nothin but a thang, girl! After that, I so badly hope that one of your Unattainable Dream Schools comes through and accepts you, just so you can laugh at this first, weird online rejection. Oh! I truly hope that's your fate!
Literary vs Genre
Just to bring this full circle, Star Wars is not so easy to put in a box. I think that in some ways you could consider it Sci Fi and literary. It's the same with Harry Potter. Now, it's no secret that I love JK Rowling, but to toss her into a fantasy genre and not consider the literary effects of that book because Harry is a wizard seems a tad superficial.
Maybe my definition of literary fiction is wrong, but I consider it to be something that is both character driven and relating to the human experience.
Love is definitely part of the human experience.
Good vs Evil is be part of the human experience but this one is very tricky. I again bring up Star Wars because the lines were clearly blurred here, all of the characters walked hand in hand with the 'darkside.'
Now compare that to Dan Brown, who relies on rich, beautiful and brilliant people to literally save the world from the albinos, conservative priests, the handicapped, sex deprived war generals and tattooed Middle Easterners.
Dan Brown is completely plot driven peppered with conspiracy theory and that's what makes him so popular.
80% of the world simply isn't willing to put in any work. They want to be told what they're reading, what the goal is and who the bad guys are and they want the lines drawn clearly.
I cannot tell you how many times I've debated the old plot driven vs character driven stance, and I've come to realize that the average person will go with plot driven every single time and allegories be damned.
So, as has been said before, it's easy to write about John who runs off on adventure, kills the bad guys without ever getting so much as a scratch and landing the hot chick in bed. Cringe worthy. But at the same time, there seems to be this thought that literary fiction must be stripped of all entertainment value and sensibility in order to capture a glimmer of brilliance and in my opinion, that simply isn't true.
Not defending Dan Brown. But I wanted to say that although there was some bad stuff there, none of the 20 worst lines in his genre novel are as badly written as most of the prose in the LiFi best seller The Lovely Bones, from top-tier MFAer Alice Sebold.
My all-time favorite bad sequence in prose: She would feel it then, creeping up the side of her calves and into her gut, the onslaught, the grief coming, the tears like a small relentless army approaching the front lines of her eyes, and she would breathe in, taking a large gulp of air to try to stop herself from crying in a public place. She asked for coffee and toast in a restaurant and buttered it with tears.
I don't like to be a hater and tear down someone's successful work. I mean, who the f*ck am I? I've never published a book! And Alice Sebold has sold zillions of books and the movie rights. But come on: "buttered it with tears"? And there are, at least, 20 sections as bad as that in her book. So if Dan Brown and genre fic are gonna be called out to be nitpicked, then I wanted to give a shout out to my girl for The Lovely Bones.
Genre vs literary
I have to say that I am a HUGE science fiction and fantasy fan. I have been since high school. There are some authors who cross genres with certain works, like Margaret Atwood with the Handmaid's Tale (someday I want to teach that). Then there's Sherri Tepper, whose work I find in the sci fi section, but who really stands out as literary, not genre. On the other hand, the Timothy Zahn I've been reading is absolutely genre but so much fun.
Crap. The bell rang and the kids are coming in.
Thanks again to everyone!
I'm late to the genre talk, which is a bummer, cos I do love me a little genre. Here's a great Michael Chabon interview where he says it all much better than I would, about genre and comics and all sorts of good stuff. http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/27/entertainment/ca-chabon27
Also--I will admit that, after seeing it on the shelf at the library I work for months and months and months, I gave in and read Twilight. It took about 2 hours. I will tell you that Dan Brown is much, much worse. If I was a tweeny right now, I'd totally be on board with the sparkling vamps. Instead, I was a big dork for Tolkien (which is, admittedly, way better writing.)
Question for all the people who did NOT apply to low-res programs: do you feel there's any negative stigma associated with the low-residency format? Or if not, then why didn't you consider any? (I'm specifically curious about any reasons that don't involve money. If you're only applying for the possibility being fully funded, well then, 'nuff said.)
I feel like I've heard such amazing things about low-res programs on this blog that trumps what traditional programs can offer...yet the number of people applying to low-res still seems so low...
And for the people who applied to both low-res AND traditional programs: how are you planning on making your decision if you get into a low-res school and a traditional school that you love equally?
Smiling raindrops:
I didnt apply to low-res programs because of two reasons.
1. I like the idea of total immersion in a writing program. And tacked on to this, I feel like without it, I would easily procrastinate and not get anything done. This is of course a problem with my own discipline, which is an ongoing personal project.
2. I hail from good old Buffalo, New York. Home is complicated for all of us, and I love Buffalo, but I'm also eager to leave it. You can love home better from afar, sometimes.
Dolores, Jasmine, Sunfish--
A few years ago my daughter did the NUI-Galway Irish language immersion summer program--life-changing for her. She stayed with an Irish-speaking family in Carreroe (little town across the inlet from where the Aran ferries depart.) She became a Galway addict and has been back and forth many times since (my son and her and friends are going in a couple weeks). She adored the program, too.
I (way back when) did a summer program with UMich reading lit where it was written--Synge on Aran, Yeats while climbing Ben Bulben, Joyce in Dublin, etc. Got to spend an evening with Seamus Heaney, and later babysat his kids.
Took me 20-something years to get back again, but now I think it's going to have to be more regular. Maybe another trip will be a consolation prize if I don't get into the MFA.
Leslie:
And if you do get into an MFA, go back to celebrate!
@ smiling raindrops,
I didn't apply to any low-res programs basically because I wanted the total immersion of a full-res program, constantly being physically around other writers, attending events, just really living in that environment.
I don't view low-res programs negatively at all; there are so many great ones. For some people a low-res program is just the right thing. I'm another one of the "young'ins" (21, turning 22 in September), so I don't have any commitments that would make a full-res program difficult and a low-res more appealing (career, family, etc). Of course there are other reasons for preferring low-res, too.
Also, at this point I really want to move to a new place, and a full-res program will (hopefully) give me a place to go!
Trilbe, that's hilarious. If I don't get in somewhere this year, I'm going to butter a hell of a lot of chocolate cake with tears.
Not gonna say too much about this, but i'm a huge fan of much sci-fi that i'd call literary too. China Mieville, Margaret Atwood (though she insists on calling things like 'Oryx and Crake' and 'The Handmaid's Tale' 'speculative fiction', not SF), John Crowley, Jonathan Lethem, Anthony Burgess, Aldous Huxley, Philip K Dick, Kim Stanley Robinson, Octavia Butler, Italo Calvino, Samuel Delaney. These people can write beautifully - and they all write what would nominally be considered SF.
Maybe it's worth considering that part of the literary canon of previous centuries includes work which would fall under SF/Fantasy/horror criteria - off the top of my head, there's Charlotte Perkins Gilman, Margaret Cavendish, Ann Radcliffe, Mary Shelley, HG Wells, Jonathan Swift (Gulliver's Travels, innit), Thomas More...Also, fantasy goes back to the very beginning of literature, of course. The first texts we studied at Oxford were myths & legends - Beowulf, King Horn, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (shit, none of it was that well written!) - but it = literature, good and proper. So the idea that all examples of the same kind of fiction are now sub-literary is bizarre. I guess SF as a genre emerged as technology began to play a bigger role in our lives - the genre grew and grew alongside that change, and then people felt the need to define and categorise it (possibly self-defined by publishers for commercial purposes during the explosion of pulp SF in early to mid-20th Century). But as far as it goes as lesser genre, and as far as you can push the genre thing in general, I'm not too sure. I think there's no point trying to pin down what's genre and what's not too much, as ultimately they never can be absolute categories - we'll go nuts trying to make 'em so!
@ DigAPony
'Nother HP fan over here :)
@ Jasmine
Haha, small world. Yes, we absolutely loved Veronica's poems. One of them, in fact, was probably my favorite poem in the whole issue. If we hadn't ended up having to put OT!M on hiatus for this past year, that poem of Veronica's ("Kiss and Ride") would have likely been one of our Pushcart nominations.
@ Trilbe
Thank you for the undeserved praise! That's very sweet of you. I believe in community, and this one means a lot to me. As for the 15 future acceptances, that'd be great, errrrr, except I only have 6 left to hear from! I'm going to be worried when I start getting e-mails like "Deer Nick, Hello, we are proud to announse that you have bean accepted into the MFA pogram in Creative Writting at the UNiversity Of Nigeria. To recieve your very generuos Funding Package, please send us youre Socail Security Number as well as all of your Bank ACcount Numbers so we can send you all your many dollars. This is very Important! Plaese do it ASAP!! Love, Dr. BOb James Smith."
@ MommyJ
YES! I absolutely love literary/sci-fi crossovers. _The Handmaid's Tale_ is briliant. You should also check out Octavia Butler--she has a great literary post-apocalyptic novel called _The Parable of the Sower_. I suppose McCarthy's _The Road_ would also fall into this category. I'm a huge literary dystopia buff. Right now I'm teaching my Slovak high school students _Brave New World_ and _Fahrenheit 451_, those great literary/sci-fi crossovers of the past!
NM
So, I appear to have woken up this morning with a stomach flu. I am now paranoid that someone is going to call me with an acceptance and is going to hear my pitiful croak on the other end of the line. ha, I really am losing it..
I couldn't read through the comments about Stephanie Meyer/Dan Brown/etc. without throwing out Jodi Piccoult, another highly marketed favorite. The plots are intriguing, but the writing is truly so bad...I once threw out a book after I'd finished it. And, as you all can probably relate, I had never before DREAMED of throwing away a precious book.
I did half of my undergrad (BFA in CW) low-res. It had its advantages and drawbacks. Anyone who wants to hear about it can email me their questions -- livingiseverything ()()at()() gmail )()(dot)()() com.
@ Kristina
While I've never thrown a book away, I did throw Kafka's _The Metamorphosis_ across the room after finishing it for the first time because I was so disgusted with humanity. But then I went and picked it up and smoothed out its wrinkles and told it I was sorry :)
NM
Congrats Nadiya!
On genre/literary: I find an interesting balance in reading both... Reading genre, like HP (also a fan) and Tolkien, makes me impatient with some literary fiction (like The Orchard Keeper) because I want more plot (not that it has to be car chases, etc., just something happening, even if it's character-driven emotional plotting). Yet, reading literary fiction makes me really impatient sometimes with things like the Twilight novels, or Sookie or Anita Blake, because their writing is often full of unnecessary and badly written fluff... I find myself thinking, you could have done that with one carefully chosen word, placed correctly, why on earth did you need several pages...
On the Twilight thing, and I expect I may take flak for this, two things.
One: as always, reading the books is not the same as watching the movies... what she does a good job with is capturing that particular teenage girl's inner life (in extraordinary circumstances). I don't know if she ripped this off from something literary, but I remember really liking the section in New Moon where she's heartbroken cuz her vamp boyfriend leaves :) and several months go by as simply blank pages with the months written on them. I remember my first heartbreak, and it felt like that. Empty time where the plot failed to advance.
Two: that main character is reading some great works of literature in at least two of the books. Romeo and Juliet, Wuthering Heights... so she's not an awful person for teenyboppers to associate with. Again, not arguing for overall quality, compared to say Steppenwolf. Given the alien choice, I'm keeping Steppenwolf and they can burn Mrs. Meyers' collected work.
BTW, most of the decent parts of Star Wars, character wise, are ripoffs of Gone With The Wind. Like almost verbatim. You know that part where Scarlett's robot short circuits... but no, the Hans / Leia stuff is Rhett / Scarlett, totally.
In MFA app news, Ole Miss now has my completed file (3rd recommender having submitted via email). So after a brief flurry of renewed activity, I am back to waiting.
Boys are better at science than girls?
Tell that to my AP Physics teacher (a very feminine woman) who had to hold my quivering, clammy hands through the entire semester so I didn't combust.
Dan Brown rant--
Got suckered into reading Da Vinci Code. It does make you turn pages, at first. But ended up being one of the dumbest books I've ever read.
1) The first night of the book is about forty hours long.
2) The Biblical rants reflect zero actual knowledge. So many basic mistakes.
3) Generally bad writing
and, the abolute coup de grace:
4) the world famous cryptographer cannot break the devious "mirror writing" code.
on a very unrelated note: snow is fun to watch. can be as distracting as checking the interwebs every few minutes.
Sam Anderson wrote a terrific article in New York Books entitled "Intelligence Service: How Dan Brown feeds the brain." It captures my feelings on Brown and his works (which I do not dislike but certainly do not aspire to in my own writing). In summary:
"I believe the power of Dan Brown is very simple: He exists entirely to make us feel smart. He is devoted to reader empowerment like Keats was devoted to euphony. Every clause, every punctuation mark, every plot twist, puzzle, and factoid is engineered precisely to flatter our intelligence."
As to the genre vs. literary fiction debate, most of the discussion is lost on me since I view genres as fairly fluid and (quite possibly incorrectly) view "literariness" as an only tangentially related issue and so bristle at the use of "literary fiction" as a genre. There are mystery, horror and all other sorts of genre novels that I consider literary fiction. Blood Meridian is a good example for the Western genre.
I expect my inability to really understand what some people mean when they say "literary fiction" is going to be a problem in graduate school, but hopefully that will be part of my education.
Cheers!
Coughdrop,
I know! I'm sick sick SICK and my voice is awful. Should my phone ring, I will speak a few words to myself to see if I can make words before I answer. If not, voicemail it is. Ugh.
I think that the collective panning of Twilight is pointless. It's sort of like people putting down Britney Spears. "Oh, that makes you feel better about yourself?" is the only thing that comes to my mind. Twilight if just a harmless book for young readers that has gotten so big and popular that we might not really GET it, but most people saying big bad things about it haven't even read it. I admit I haven't either, but I doubt it's got some good qualities. I tried to watch the first movie but I fell asleep after realizing I wasn't interested. For what it's worth, I LOVED Buffy the Vampire Slayer as a teen. I can see the appeal of sexy vampires, okay?
On the other hand, I do make fun of Dan Brown. Perhaps I shouldn't...
@ eli and trilbe,
thank you so much for the congratulations :) Especially Trilbe, that was so so sweet of you to say. Yes -- so much pressure is off. I'm so excited. It feels GREAT and I only hope ALL of you get to experience this feeling really soon :)
Got the official email this morning!
Well, Sam, I'm afraid we'll just have to disagree. I think most (if not all) genre/literary divisions are superficial.
Besides, your caveat for literary/genre work is not well taken on this side. I mean, if you're going to pull out some of the best works in the field, of course the field is going to look less impressive. Can I reverse this? Can I claim all these great writers Eli and Nick are mentioning (and more) from the "literary" side? Is Poe literary horror? Atwood literary sci-fi? etc etc? Ah ha! Now literary fiction is starting to look peakish. :).
@ Laura T:
I'm also turning 22 in September! I guess your reasons make sense...I've got a serious boyfriend and my first real job post-graduation and I don't want to lose either.
With regards to the whole immersion thing, I write best when I live the lifestyle of a hermit...but then when I've finished a new draft I go running to anyone and everyone who is willing to lend me a pair of fresh eyes. So I'm really torn about the whole individualized track, working really closely with a professor who will get to know me and my writing super well...vs. the advantage of having a whole class of people who can be the captive audience for my latest drafts.
And another question for you all: has anyone ever heard anything negative about Vermont College of the Fine Arts? I've only ever heard really good things, but maybe I've been looking for comments from biased groups.
I always like to use Hammett when defending genre writing, personally.
Smiling,
My mentor went to Vermont College. He liked it a lot.
As far as the differences between "genre" and "literary" fiction, my two cents are:
1. Genre is concerned with what is happening, and literary is concerned with how the story is told. Literary fiction is about language, while genre is about plot turns.
2. Literary writing often has something "deeper" going on than what you are literally reading. There is subtext, irony, symbolism, etc.
3. Genre and literary writing overlap all the time.
I guess that was three cents.
Re: low vs full res
I've applied (in poetry) to both types of programs, and I'm honestly not sure which I would prefer. I think, for me, there are huge advantages to both. I like the idea of being able to work, continue my life as is, while completing my MFA. And, to be honest, I tend to be a solitary person in general, and with respect to my writing. That's not to say that I don't value the workshop experience, of which I have a great deal. Just that I think I am more productive when left to my own schedule.
However, the idea of living in a community of writers and being a full time student is appealing as well. I have similar mixed feelings on whether I want to move. I'm happy in my current city, but I think moving to a new one would be a great adventure. I also have a fantastic boyfriend who plans on moving with me, if that is what I chose. Basically I am terrible at making up my mind :) Maybe the programs will do that for me...
@smiling raindrops: I have also heard really wonderful things about Vermont. I've been accepted there for poetry, and am definitely considering it seriously. The faculty have all been wonderfully helpful and accessible to answer questions, etc. I have corresponded a little with some current students who all seem happy there. I would also be curious to hear other opinions, however.
Jasmine--do you have to be a student at Arkansas to do the NUI Galway program? My heart rate actually shot up at the prospect of going back to Ireland...but I didn't apply to Arkansas :(
@frankish-That is very true about Dan Brown.
I think that writers such as Dan Brown and Stephanie Meyer have managed to do one thing that a lot of writers do not want to do or have too much pride to do. They found an audience and they write to them.
I remember reading this interview with Lauryn Hill who is in my opinion, one of the best musicians of my short life, and she said that one of the reasons that she left the spotlight was for this very reason.
She was writing for the grammy committee. She was writing for her Fugee fans. She was writing to prove she could be more lyrically eloquent than Wyclef Jean.
Then one day she looked up and didn't recognize herself, she wasn't happy, all of these awards, money and fame didn't fill her soul.
Dave Chapelle is another pop culture example of someone who catered to their audience.
So I guess the question is, maybe we're all too egotistical? I remember discussing Toni Morrison in a literary circle and there was some criticism to her craft and someone's response was, "Toni Morrison writes with intellect, either you find some intellect or you go pick up a bad romance at the corner store with Fabio on the front."
In essence, screw the audience, it's all about the craft. Okay, well if craft is all that matters, then can we really be upset when brilliant books are casted aside for graphic novels?
Okay, there are some good graphic novels out there, though. :)
@Gena
Sounds like an interesting class. And yes, I think "The Universe in a Single Atom" would be a good fit. I was looking at it again last night, having recommended it, er hem, and he speaks of that very thing, the interface between science and spirituality. He spoke of his own education which included nothing but Buddhists texts/teachings and sitting meditation, 2 hours, 4x/day, (age 6, yikes!) Anyway, I'm rambling now - I'll close with saying that he does a great job of relating theoretical physics to Buddhist teachings. It furthered my understanding of both. (each?) I hope you like it. (It's not nearly as exciting as "Copenhagen", but I guess you know that.)
@Gena
and he takes a stance on throwing out Buddhists teachings that science has clearly proven incorrect. And he has added science and other western studies to the curriculum in Tibetan schools. And, his science teachers were/are THE scientists. He holds a forum every couple of years, where he invites the top scientists to spend a week or so discussing these issues. Humble and curious. Nice combo to have as a world leader, or even a schmoe like me. Something to strive for.
OK, I better go write. Ciao!
@Jason J.
luvin the music
Jason J--
an MFA mixtape! Thanks bro, it's awesome!
Danielle, Lauren, Cratty, and all you lucky ones--
HELLLLLL YEAHHHHHH!!! How great is it that there are so many acceptances, I can't even keep track of them all? Congrats to everyone-- what talent!
@Jasmine
Glad to hear other people have ongoing battles with their personal dedication. Phew! I agree, total immersion is a great perk traditional programs have.
I've decided, if I'm not accepted this time around (having never previously applied before,) I'll take two or three years to myself, keep writing & then reapply to low-res programs, only b/c I feel that by reapplying to MFA progs out of state, other nuances of your life are put on hold..does that make sense? By waiting to get into full-time MFA programs, I think your career, love life & other misc achievements are in a weird sorta limbo waiting to be confirmed later on. Yes? No? Who knoooows.
Despite the fact that I should know better, it's been disappointing to get no phone calls this morning. :D
I thought FOR SURE someone would post with good news from Wyoming today. The day is still young...and I'm crossing my fingers because I applied there.
I think a lot of us are staying hopeful for Wyoming! Fingers crossed!
Yes, it's only 10:30 in Wyoming! Surely somebody will get some good news, if not today then over the weekend or early next week.
Yup. I keep this window open and hit refresh every 5 minutes to see if anyone says anything about wyoming.
@ Chelsea,
Totally agree about the weird waiting limbo. That's why I only applied to two traditional programs in New York City (where I work and live with my boyfriend) and then a bunch of low-res programs.
However, given that I've only gotten into Vermont so far, I'm not sure how confident I can be in my writing. I get the sense that because low-res programs get fewer applications that they're easier to get into. So maybe it would've been a better move for me to apply to more traditional programs, just to see how many schools I get into and what schools consider me a good "fit." Though I suppose these things are so subjective that that information wouldn't mean too much anyway.
And I guess I could've swapped samples with y'all to get an idea of how good everyone else was...but the thought of discovering how amazing everyone is compared to me is kind of terrifying. :o)
@smiling raindrops
What other low res programs did you apply to? I'm still waiting on Lesley, Stonecoast and Antioch. Are you fiction or poetry? I'm poetry, and would be down for a sample swap if you are...though I also have the fear of discovering how amazing everyone else is compared to me :)
Did anybody else here apply to University of Kansas? If they're on schedule with the e-mail I received last month, next week is the big week for their notifications!
Ashley,
I actually had a Buffy the Vampire Slayer dream last night. I think I was Giles or something and it was the last season where the Summers house was full of potential slayer girls. They were training via a jazzercise dvd. I joined in but couldn't keep up.
re: the genre/literary debate
Different strokes for different folks
Seriously. This is such an old argument.
I am having the world's most insane morning! This morning I was having stomach related issues, now a man who smells like cigarettes and oil is sucking things out of my sink that's been clogged for a week, and a good friend of mine just called to ask if she could borrow my car because her boyfriend is coughing up blood!
What is this life that I am living?
WT,
Haha, sounds like an awesome dream. I dreamt about a large circular elevator that was also a carousel. Dreams inspire me to write magical realism.
@Himbokol
I forgot about Conover's book about trains and hobos. I heard of both books during a radio interview. I will probably read that one too. Thanks for the reminder. Another nonfiction author I like is Norah Vincent. She wrote a book about living as a man for a year. It's called Self-Made Man. The other is called Voluntary Madness, which details her stays in mental illness wards to investigate them while treating her own depression. She's really insightful.
@ smiling raindrops,
Maybe we are birthday twins! Mine's the twelfth, what about you?
I can definitely see why you want to go low-res when you've got a job lined up and a relationship. I am in a relationship, and depending on where I get accepted, I'll either be moving in with my boyfriend or trying long distance (no one revive the long distance debate!). It's stressful to think about what will happen with my relationship, though.
It's great that you have a job lined up. For me, finding a "real" job this upcoming year seems so terrifyingly difficult, with a brand-new degree in English and no real work experience. So I feel like I need a full-res program. If I were in a low-res I would probably just be working a crappy job and hating my life for the entire year other than the residencies... In a full-res program I will probably still need at least a part-time job, but being constantly in class, going to events, etc., will make me feel like that is the main focus of my life, so a crappy job would be bearable.
I also find that when I am immersed in a creative environment like being in a workshop class, constantly hearing everyone else's ideas and reading their writing, I write SO MUCH more than when I am trying to stay inspired and motivated on my own.
FOE from Wyoming...really weird:
"The Creative Writing Program would like to send you a small gift. It is a Chapbook that our students put together. Please send me the address that I should send this to. I plan to mail these out on Monday."
What does this mean?!?
Laura:
I was not a student at Arkansas when I went to Ireland, and I was an undergraduate. All you have to do is apply to the summer program.
I definitely recommend it!
@happygonowhere
I didn't get an email like that from wyoming.
Responded to the Wyoming email with my addy and the question "gift of congratulations or condolence" response "congratulations, of course."
Is this an acceptance? Am I in!!??!!
@ HappyGoNowhere,
That is so weird! Getting a gift is nice, but I'm sure you would rather get an acceptance :)
JUST speculation, but it doesn't seem like they would produce hundreds of chapbooks to send to all of the applicants. But, I have no idea what that could mean!
Wow, that is such a strange and vague way of accepting you, if it is an acceptance!
Re: the tired old genre thing.
My love for HP required me to stick up for those books, which I enjoy so much and will come back to time and time again. There's definitely no use in continuing to debate genre vs. literary- it's just what makes you FEEL, you know? And Maslo and other HP fans, thank you for coming out of the closet. :)
Re: low res
I didn't apply to any low res programs because I am a HORRIBLE self-starter and have a really hard time keeping to a decent writing schedule on my own. I also want to teach, so I look forward to all the experience I'll get through a TA (provided I get in, of course).
I've been cutting my hair off bit by bit these last few days. I feel helpless--literally, all of my MFA friends have gotten accepted somewhere (though, yes, I know, it's still very, very early).
When I feel powerless, I tend to make dramatic outward changes in and to my life--painting a room, going on a fad diet, cutting off my hair ... in the past, I've even shaved my head once or twice, just DESPERATE for SOMETHING to change dramatically--I've got all this WANT and ANTICIPATION in me.
I worry that by April I'll be completely bald, skinny as a switch and anemic as all get out, with a house done all in maroon and avocado.
Well... CONGRATS Happygonowhere if that is an acceptance! heh!
and maybe a stupid question but what on earth is a Chapbook?
Dudes, I hate to be the downer here again, but you guys are DENSE.
Happy, it probably means you're in. But the reason they're being coy about it is to avoid touching off mass hysteria amongst applicants that troll blogs like these. They're aware of how anxious their applicants are, they may not be notifying everyone right away, and they don't want to rock the boat.
I understand that you didn't mean any harm by posting what they sent you here, (and I could also be wrong about their intentions), but just so that you and everyone else has some food for thought about these kinds of emails: in my opinion, reporting them on this blog before they become full-blown, official acceptances is in VERY poor taste. This is an opinion I would not be surprised to discover is shared by folks at these programs.
HappyGoNowhere, unless they sent it to everyone, I'm going to say that's a strong indication of acceptance!! Congratulations-in-advance! Now, being that it's a chapbook, can I assume you're poetry?
(*still praying for a fiction acceptance there!*)
@happy
I appreciate your reporting any and all information that you get and would also have posted that on the mfa blog, in an attempt to get clarification from someone else.
(Nothing about it was in poor taste)
Congrats if it means you got in!
I don't think it's in poor taste (or form). If people don't want to know about things like this they are perfectly capable of avoiding the blog mailbags, at least at this time of year. If people do want to know, the information is available to them.
Why should the application and acceptance process be anything other than transparent?
The only reason it's not in poor taste was that the intent was good.
But it's still a really dubious thing to do, when you think about the job the admissions folks at these programs have to do and how difficult it is to do that job in a way that's respectful of applicants' feelings without stuff like this being posted on blogs like these.
The very fact that they're being cryptic about it indicates a desire on their behalf not to let such cats out of their proverbial bags.
I know this it the Facebook generation and there's no such thing as privacy anymore, but I think the respectful thing to do if you get an email like this one in the future is to wait until it's a real offer to report on it.
@ RugbyToy,
I used to cut my hair when I was stressed. I did this in my 20s when I was in a miserable marriage.
I have always had somewhat 'unbalanced' responses to stress also -- not eating, etc. -- but I have to say that age has tempered all those tendencies, thankfully.
And @ Dreux,
This is a totally appropriate place to discuss a mysterious email/chapbook "gift" from a school. We're all big boys and girls on this blog. If it's another fakeout, we can handle it. Give us some credit.
Some of us actually enjoy the speculation, as it helps take up all the time we've got while we wait.
And I wonder why anyone would presume to speak for a school. Maybe, if they didn't want us to speculate, they'd be more forthcoming. Who knows. We are not them.
It's got nothing to do with the politics of MFA admissions and whether or not they should be completely transparent as a matter of policy (a point I question in the first place -- admissions to select institutions are NEVER transparent).
This is about receiving a letter from another human being, understanding what they're trying to tell you, and acting accordingly. The underlying message of that letter is obviously "we're not fully ready to give you the official word yet, but we like your application a lot." You should respond in kind, by not potentially getting people all riled up over it.
I'm not going to argue with people about this -- trying to explain to someone why things like this are in poor taste when things like Twitter and Facebook status updates are considered routine nowadays is impossible. It's like trying to speak to a Martian. But I would advise everyone to at least take a few hours to think over the level of disclosure that is respectful to make (respectful to the admissions committees) before they come here and post about stuff like this.
Completely agree with Lauren.
This is the place to ask questions and discuss uncertainties.
It's really dismaying when one poster consistently adds acrimony to an otherwise genuinely helpful and mutually supportive blog.
Oh and, Dreux, thanks for insulting 100 percent of us by calling us all "dense" -- like, seriously, dude, for real? When I posted yesterday defending my (awesome) 1.5-year long-distance relationship, I implied you were lacking 'maturity and kindness' -- and, lo and behold, I just love it when somebody proves me right. Good grief.
@Dreux - It's a two-way street. I am sympathetic to needs the administrative committees and staff, particularly at this time of year. At the same time, I understand the position of the applicants, many of whom need (or at least feel they would benefit from, psychically if no other way) information.
I still see no argument against transparency in the process, save that information may prompt more calls and emails from applicants. In that case, putting one or two work-study students on the job of answering phones and emails with "We do not have any additional information for you at this time but will contact you when we do" costs next to nothing.
Cheers!
@ Leslie,
Well said :)
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