Thursday, March 25, 2010

Mailbag, Thursday, March 25, 2010 - plus, gosh-darn-it, some actual content!

Hi Everyone,

The new content posting has been pretty quiet around here as I seem to be one of the only people updating the blog these days, what with Tom and Seth busy writing and all, and I have been distracted myself -- with writing, teaching, editing, etc. Never fear. I'll continue to throw up new mailbags, and though the blog tends to quiet down over the summer, there will be semi-regular new posts with relevant MFA related content, so be sure to check back, no matter your status heading into the fall.

For now I have a grab-bag of links for you, and some questions I want to throw out there, and a few thoughts.

The eminently sane Vince Gotera (whose personal statement advice has already proved helpful to many an MFA applicant) has advice about how to handle acceptances, rejections, and (maybe most importantly) waitlists. Sure, this is from 2006, but I think it still stands.

Gotera suggests that if you end up with rejections, you should try and figure out why. The new incarnation of ALC, known as Driftless House (and which seems to be ALC minus Seth) is offering a service to help you do just that. You give them ten pages of fiction, or five of poetry, plus your list of schools, plus $90, and in return you'll get "in-line notes and an evaluation letter." That's nine or eighteen bucks a page! Just sayin'. (I work for less than that, if you are interested...)

This brings me to some questions: If you didn't get accepted, will you be reapplying next year? And what, if anything, do you think you gained from going through the process this time around?

For what it's worth, I always tell my MFA application students and clients that they should think of an MFA as a five or six year process: one or two years to apply, two or three years in the program, and a year to adjust afterward. And that's a minimum, in my opinion.

Also for what it's worth: last year I worked with someone going through her fourth year of applications. She'd been waitlisted before, but never had any full offers. After polishing up her stories and statements she went at it again and was accepted, in fiction, at multiple top schools, including Hollins, Brooklyn, and UNCW [Updated - it was actually UNCG, my mistake.] I can't take much credit on that one -- she did so well because she didn't give up, and used the time in between applications to workshop, hone her craft, and improve her stories. By the time I met her she was already in good shape and just needed guidance on statements and some final developmental feedback. But it goes to show that tenacity pays, both for MFA applications and in your future writing lives. Sometimes the ones who make it are the ones who don't give up.

***end pep talk***

More links: many MFA programs have really terrible websites -- any applicant knows this. But how many have blogs? NMSU does, but I'm not sure of any others. Can we crowdsource this one? Post your links to official (or, I guess, unofficial) MFA blogs in the comments.

Current NMSU student Carrie Murphy also emailed me to let me know about her blog, Master of Fine Eats. "Thought this might be of interest to the MFA blog readers," she wrote, "many of whom are already (if not about to be) poor graduate students."

Last thought: one commentator was lamenting over what to tell your recommenders if you don't have the outcome you were looking for. I say (as a fairly prolific recommendation writer myself) just tell them straight. They won't hold it against you one little bit, and most will be happy to get an update, no matter the results. I sometimes don't hear anything from the people I write recs for -- and I always wish I did.

For all this post's focus on possible less-than-desirable results, the acceptance season is not yet over, and there are still more happy "yay, I've been accepted" comments to come. So don't give up the good fight yet, people!

2,269 comments:

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Jasmine Sawers said...

M. Fit

I'm going to Indiana for fiction!

Drop me a line at lowqualitysound at gmail

phillywriter said...

Congrats, M.Fit! Thanks for sharing the info. I'll keep hoping that Dolores Humbert's spot is still out there, but delayed due to AWP....

I hope it works out that inkli and I are both joining you and Jasmine in Bloomington this fall!

Sud said...

Dig a Pony-congratulations and happy, happy birthday!

jenpopa said...

I bet at some point this was probably discussed but I have an after MFA question.

So I realize academic jobs in the humanities are next to impossible to get, especially when seeking a tenure track spot which will require some for-serious publishing. My question isn't about that kinda job though. Am I totally deluding myself by thinking that if I do an MFA with a TAship for at least one of the years, that I can get a a basic community college teaching job? I'm just wondering if I enjoy teaching if a cc teaching job is likely to be available? I may decide I want to continue on the path and go the phd route and fight fr one of those tenure track spots, but what if I decide really teaching a cc composition or basic lit course is enough for me. But truly, are those jobs readily available or will I fight tooth and nail for that kinda gig as well?

kaybay said...

Ugh, I need to vent... Is anyone else totally frustrated by the delay of a certain program (not UNCG)? I just can't believe that they wouldn't tell their applicants anything yet. It's April 9th!! I need to know what's going on so I can make some plans. If I'm on a wait list, no matter how low, I'd like have that information for next year. Why delay information like that?? I don't understand! Especially when it's one of my top choices...

Jamie said...

@jenpopa

This was posted on the board a couple months ago, and it makes the worst case. If you buy it, you'll likely be competing against PhDs for those community college jobs.

Then again, there's a Baby Boom retirement coming up, I hear. It'll suck for our entitlements programs, but might clear up lots of college jobs.

Lexie said...

@kaybay: Yes. I was told by The Program of My Choice that I am "still under consideration" and it could take them until the end of April to make a decision.

T said...

I've never heard of Jim Clark, but I feel like he's probably responsible for Santa Claus not being real.

kaybay said...

Lexie, without judging the merits of any of these programs, I think that's ridiculous. I was told that "decisions are being made" earlier this week, but also heard of an acceptance from the same school. I'm not assuming acceptance, but it's getting rather late to be getting the run around. I'm just not sure why some programs have decisions finalized so much earlier than others, or why some programs notify wait lists and others just notify acceptances. It doesn't make any sense to me, I guess.

Again, I have no knowledge of the inner workings of a program or school, for that matter. I truly have no idea, whatsoever. But, I know if gets done elsewhere. What's their secret? I'm just over this delay. I don't understand the need to string applicants along. Maybe I'm just being self-centered and whiny, but I keep telling myself "next week, next week" and nothing happens :(

Lexie said...

@kaybay: I totally agree. It's ridiculous. I am lucky enough to have an open-ended acceptance from another school so I can wait to see if The Program of My Choice deigns to accept me, but it's really putting a bad taste in my mouth.

j said...

Dreux-
Wait, did you get into UNCG?

j said...

Jen,

Dreux told people to grow up because he was annoyed by people's complaining of UNCG because he got into UNCG. From Dreux's point of view, he has a legitimate complaint--he is accepted at UNCG and does not have funding yet----and people are complaining about not being accepted because accepted students (e.g. Dreux) are not even funded.

You must realize that every single one of Dreux's posts is filtered through his extreme narcissism and inability to see anything past his nose (no offense).

Ena said...

@Julia

Wow, you're right to ask: no it's just Austin. I think it's my sometimes-habit of pluralizing things when he's concerned into "us", like a crazy old married lady. Apologies for the confusion!

@DigAPony

I think that is absolutely amazing and congratulations! I've always had such terrible birthdays!

Annieo said...

That's a helluva birthday present DigAPony. NICE work and congratulations.

kaybay said...

I can't seem to find Seth's post linking the new rankings (I think the blog's malfunctioning again). Can anyone repost the link for me? :)

tough said...

@ kaybay

Is it this?

Annieo said...

kaybay, it's on his personal website

Annieo said...

yes, that's it

kaybay said...

Oh, ok. I knew about that one :D Thanks! I guess I thought it was on some special, super-duper page or something.

kbtoys said...

hmm. Didn't realize Sarah Lawrence fell behind The New School by so far.. Any thoughts on why?

tough said...

Maybe there's a more special one we just haven't found yet...

kaybay said...

@Seth - thank you for compiling the rankings again (funding and overall), they are tremendously helpful. I was wondering why South Carolina didn't even break the top 75, especially since you mentioned they offer such good funding? Do you think they'll be on the rise in the future? I'm pretty sure they'll be on my list for next year, so I'm just curious :)

Woon said...

@DigAPony - maybe Oregon State purposely delayed notifying you of the good news so that they could do it on your birthday? How old are you anyway?

Chrissy Widmayer said...

@DigAPony, CONGRATS and HAPPY BRITHDAY! That's such such such good news! I'm so happy for you!

Ali Haider said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ali Haider said...

I find it hilarious that until just now, I have been pronouncing "helluva" as "hell-oova" instead of "hell-of-a". Thats all. I amuse myself.

Seth Abramson said...

@kaybay

They're very conservative aesthetically, but also (as I understand it) they didn't really start advertising their funding until recently -- after people formed application lists for this year. And even now they haven't updated their website to reflect their full-funding status. And there are certainly some who don't want to live in South Carolina -- it's not regarded as one of the most, er, welcoming Southern states. All that said, yes, it will see an increase... somewhere halfway between University of Wyoming's increase and University of Kansas's. Best,

S.

Woon said...

@sahaider - that's nothing, man. I used to pronounce "denouement" literally, exactly as it's spelled, including all three vowels "oue" in the middle which, you have to admit, takes some skill.

Zoulou said...

hellOUUUUUUva lol =D That's gonna always be in my head now, sahaider.

@DigAPony - wow, that is totally awesome - congratulations! And happy birthday! That's perfect :)

Woon said...

@Seth - what are your thoughts on Purdue?

Julia said...

@ Ena

That's okay, they got my heart going again just fine. ;)

For what it's worth, I think it's terrible that happened and I hope you two have a wonderful experience wherever you go.

Emma said...

@ Seth (and anyone who wants to weigh in) --

I am trying to decide between two schools, one in the top 10 (not among the top 5) and one in the top 20. Both programs have really impressed me and I'm having a lot of trouble making up my mind.

What I want to know is, How should I take Seth's data into account? It was very helpful in choosing which schools to apply, but how seriously should I consider the rankings when it comes to selecting a school to attend?

What is the impact of the rankings on MFA graduates? Do employers read these rankings?

etc.

If anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to know.

Thank you!

Woon said...

Just sped-read the MLA Handbook. The only good I got out of it is that every student has to type my name (the instructor's name) in the upper left corner on the first page. At least they'll be thinking of me.

Woon said...

@Emma - I have plenty to say about your two schools. I know what/who they are. In fact, one of my recommenders talked about your two schools. But I'm gonna guess you don't want my opinion.

jenpopa said...

@Jamie

Thanks for the link, I know it's not entirely hopeful, and I'm sure there's something to it, but I really hope it's not entirely true. I have really enjoyed teaching, and would like to try my hand at CC for a time anyway. Ah well, I suppose I can always become an academic vagabond and hide from a "real" job by being a permanent student. Huzzah for higher education!

Emma said...

@ Woon --

I would like anybody's opinion. Man or woman ;)

Emma said...

@ Woon

If you really do have "plenty" to say, you're welcome to PM me on Ning.

Zoulou said...

@Ananda - I was just doing some blog catch-up too, and just got to yours - yeah another Seattle-ite! Me too, actually, I'm not in the city either; I live up north. And I hear you about UW. I am fiction! Are you poetry? :)

I'm wishing you luck! I hope the next round goes really well.

Oh and hey, what about that hail yesterday, right? :P

Kendra said...

@ Emma - I know your two schools as well, but I don't think people are going to be able to give you very good advice unless you give your own pro/cons list. As for Seth's rankings, what in particular are you focusing on? Funding? Overall? Selectivity? Placement Stats? I think you'll get different answers depending on your wants/needs. I was actually going to email you to find out where you'd decided. :-)

@ all - still lurking off and on, wanting to find out where some people end up. Trilbe, did you pick your place? And honeybadger - Michigan or Cornell? (Or Virginia?)

Seth Abramson said...

@all

How does one get to this Ning thing, and do I need a password? And/or am I invited...? :-(

S.

Seth Abramson said...

@Emma

Yes and no -- going forward I do believe these are the only rankings that matter, and that any employer would read, but I don't think employers care much about ranking or pedigree as compared to publications. The Iowa Writers' Workshop and maybe a couple other places are the only exceptions here.

The rankings are useful, at this stage of things, primarily to compare funding packages (using the provided cost-of-living adjusted figures), to compare cohort quality (using the selectivity index and the placement rankings), and perhaps to gauge applicant enthusiasm (using the overall rankings) if there's a large discrepancy between two schools -- applicant enthusiasm usually has a reason for it, e.g. a strong faculty (as can be seen on program websites), &c. I will say that all of the programs whose names are extremely powerful are more or less in the top ten -- e.g., Iowa, Virginia, Texas, Michigan, Brown, Cornell, perhaps a couple others. Other schools once thought to have "names" are not the powerhouses they were (Johns Hopkins [both genres], Houston [poetry], Columbia [fiction], U. of Washington [poetry], Irvine [fiction]) though these are still respected programs. Anyway, that's a short answer...

S.

Seth Abramson said...

@Woon

That depends... didn't see your application list anywhere...?

:-P

S.

Emma said...

@ Peaquah --

hi!

You're right about the pros/cons thing, but I feel strange talking about it on this forum because I know that at least one of the professors reads (and contributes occasionally!) to the blog.

But okay, I need advice badly.

It's between the U of Oregon and the U of Montana (for fiction.)

And basically it boils down to the fact that I am in LOVE with Missoula, Montana, and decidedly underwhelmed by Eugene, Oregon. It's just not my "scene," and I think my social life would suffer in Eugene, but be very satisfying in Montana. And that's making the decision really difficult. It sounds so shallow said out loud, but there you have it. If the U of Oregon were in a town like Missoula, this wouldn't even be a question.

Has anyone else had a problem like this? Advice? Anything?

Seth Abramson said...

@Emma

FWIW, when I saw those two schools my first, gut instinct was this: Montana.

Assuming you have full funding at both, that'd be my call. It sounds like you're leaning in that direction already. Oregon is a strong program but the difference in prestige between Oregon and Montana should be treated, by you, as zero. Do I think the cohort at Oregon may be ever so slightly stronger? Yes. But, at this level, everyone's pretty strong. And the reports I hear of high student satisfaction at Montana, and the mixed reports from Oregon, coupled with the wide differential between your experiences of the two locales...

...well, seems like there's a strong wind blowing in one direction, non?

That said, you probably can't go wrong here.

Best,
S.

kaybay said...

Thanks Seth!! Hmmmmm... I would qualify myself as "very conservative." I don't write stories about divorce or aging hippies, so... maybe I need to rethink them. Poopies!

PS - just a joke about divorce and aging hippies, hopefully I didn't just describe someone's sample. Kinda like going shoe shopping and making fun of the pair the lady next to you is wearing, huh?

kaybay said...

Wait, are you fiction Emma!! Fiction Emma that I thought committed to Florida?? Say it ain't so! Go to UF!

Woon said...

@kaybay - Other than the fact that you're Irish and Catholic, why do you want to attend ND, a reputedly "experimental" program with the likes of Steve Tomasula? Have you read his stuff?

Unknown said...

@ Emma -- Not to minimize your struggle, but this seems like an easy decision to me. IMHO, at the top of any list should be personal happiness. Obviously, you can't predict the future (you might hate Montana) but if your gut tells you Oregon isn't a fit and Montana would be awesome, you gotta go Montana.

What's the point of being miserable in Oregon? Just to say that you went to the #6 school or whatever instead of the #18? Seems meaningless in the grand scheme.

I suppose there's a chance that unhappiness could yield great work, but that's kind of a twisted notion to base a decision. If you're like most people, I suspect you won't get the most out of your MFA experience if your unhappy/unfulfilled at the school or city.

My two cents. Good luck!

Woon said...

@kaybay - you're confusing the two Emmas. One Emma already committed to Florida. I have a voodoo doll of her. The other Emma (above) is contemplating the natural wonders of Montana vs. the "prestige" of Oregon.

Emma said...

@ Kaybay --

I am a different fiction Emma, LOL. Didn't apply to UF.

@ Seth and Tony --

BUT BUT BUT I could teach Intro to Fiction at Oregon! And the Kidd tutorial is awesome! And I love the work of the faculty! And it's near Portland and the ocean and the mountains and California! And other things!

But... but... but... but. Missoula. Oh, Missoula.

Emma said...

@ Woon and everyone --

I phrased my struggle wrong. I'm not that concerned with "prestige." I was just wondering about that... I'm more concerned with opportunity. And Oregon seems able to provide better opportunity, but NOT the opportunity to live in Missoula, which has seduced me with its mountains guns and dogs.

Seth Abramson said...

@Emma

Sometimes the heart knows before the head does. You wait a bit, and then the head catches up. Sounds like something clicked re: Missoula. As I like to say, go to whichever program is least likely to cause you to wonder about the choice not made. We tend to know the answer to that instinctively, also. It's a kind of gut-check for how much prestige really does or doesn't matter to you (having nothing to do with me or the rankings, just your own internal value system). If you went to Eugene would you pine over Missoula? Or vice versa?

S.

Seth Abramson said...

@all

Seriously, though, a little help with this Ning site...? How to access, i.e.?

S.

lisa said...

@emma

i know next-door to nothing about missoula (or montana, for that matter), but i do know this:

eugene is about 2 hours from portland... which means it's about two hours from powell's. which is pretty spectacular.

just sayin'...

kaybay said...

I have read some of his stuff actually, and I loved it (thanks, Google Books). It's not quite what I write, but it's totally interesting. And actually, there's a Catholic vibe to his stuff (some cannibalism in there ;) ), so I found that very interesting. I do like that they are open to experimental writing, but also that they're open to writing that's "in the middle," so to speak. I wouldn't say I'm traditional realism, but I'm not as experimental as Tomasula, so the fact that I'm even wait listed there says to me that they can appreciate diversity of aesthetic, to a degree, of course.

Honestly, the "Catholic-ness" of the program is something that really attracts me. It's not that I want to write church stories or promote the Church (I really don't), but my stories, especially the most recent ones I'm writing, tend to have a distinct Catholic-ness to it. In fact, I love playing around with the whole cannibal thing, too (you know, eating our savior and all, and drinking his blood). I'm also fascinated by sacrifice. Not, like, of birds to gods or anything, but voluntary bodily sacrifice and what causes someone to give themselves up. I guess that's why a lot my stories end with death, haha. But that's something I need to change. Anyway, that's all very Catholic.

I don't know, I guess I just feel like it would be a good fit. Experimental, Catholic, decent enough funding, great school with a great reputation, and a seemingly student-centered faculty. Accept me please :(

Emma said...

@ Seth --

Thank you very much for weighing in. I do appreciate your advice.

As for Ning, it requires an invitation, which I don't think I'm authorized to give out. I believe Amanda is the one who sent me the "join" link.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Seth Abramson said...

@all (and/or @Amanda)

If someone could ask Amanda (if she's willing) to e-mail me an invite (or just generally) at sethabramson[@]yahoo.com...?

S.

Woon said...

re. Ning

It's actually called "MFA Limbo" in the Ning network. They'll let anybody in. Case in point: me.

But I'm thinking the traffic will naturally die down come April 15 or so. I know I'll stop going because, you know, it's time to move on. I mean, it was originally designed to foster universal brotherhood/sisterhood among MFA applicants in a state of application status limbo, hence the name "MFA Limbo." It also provides better user functionality like thread creation, PMs, chats, My Page, wall commenting, etc.

Woon said...

re. Ning (cont.)

But it's also a smaller group so it's possible to form enemies there, as well as friends, if that's your thing.

Unknown said...

In this case there is absolutely no difference (in terms of ethical issues) between what I'm talking about and the retracted admissions you all are discussing.

Do you think Jim Clark wanted to retract your admission? Do you think that was a tactical decision he made to hurt you? Do you think it was even a decision he made of his own free will? At worst, his hand was forced, and he made the only play he could.

The only filter my comments traveled through was the one I developed while sitting in Jim's office, watching him perform superhuman feats of empathy, concern, and organizational intelligence to try to get as much money possible to admit YOU. Not me, not the other folks who already have offers, BUT YOU. The more money he has, the more offers he can make.

Every year at least one person who doesn't have funding rejects Jim's advice to steer clear and shows up to campus anyway, and every year Jim goes to the wall to try find them money anyway, even though he already warned them that there wasn't anyway. And with very few exceptions he succeeds. He does so in an environment where the people who control the funding sneer at any attempt to get money for someone who has already demonstrated a willingness to pay their own way. This speaks volumes about Jim, and you won't find other program directors doing the same thing.

So as you trash him on a public forum here, he's pulling his hair out trying to get your acceptances reinstated. You don't see any problems with that?

EmilyA said...

@ Nonfiction Courtney -

I finally had my interview with Bath Spa University this week (after lots of scheduling issues) and I got an e-mail this morning saying that I was accepted! Have you thought any more about attending? Or have you decided on a school in the states? Anyway, if you have any good info about the program, let me know! I'm very tempted to spend a year writing abroad...

lookylookyyonder said...

@montana / oregon fiction emma

would you mind elaborating a bit on what it is you liked about montana / missoula? i have a likely-unfunded poetry offer and will probably end up somewhere else, but i want to give montana due consideration in case i find myself with a ta offer in the final mad shuffle leading up to the 15th.

Woon said...

Well, I read the MLA Handbook cover to cover -- skimmed it actually -- and I gotta say, there's no yearning whatsoever. Of the Robert Olen Butler kind. What a rotten read. I'm taking a nap.

Kendra said...

@ Emma - correct me if I'm wrong, but won't you also teach Intro to Fiction at Montana your second year? I know that's not the same as teaching it all the time, but it does mitigate that "pro" for Oregon a bit, yes? Also, Portland is only an 8 hour drive from Missoula, which probably sounds like a lot if you're not from the West, but it really isn't. (And I know you drove for like three days to get to Missoula, so you get it.) You can easily do that in a long weekend - Kevin also lived there for a year, and has lots of great tips for visiting. How was sitting in on his workshop, by the way? (You can write me about that off-blog if you'd like.)

I really think Seth is right - you have to go with your gut instinct. The truth is that there are opportunities everywhere. You might have to be a bit more tenacious at Montana to find some of them, but they definitely exist. Montana wouldn't have the kind of welcoming nurturing reputation it does if the faculty didn't go above and beyond for the students. You know I'm biased because I love Missoula, but it is hands-down one of the prettiest places in the state to live. And if you're hankering for the west coast - Seattle, Portland etc. - it really isn't that far away.

I have absolutely nothing against Oregon, but also know relatively little about the program. Visited a couple of times, but one of the reasons I didn't apply there was because I didn't particularly want to live in Eugene, so I feel you there.

Bottom line: if you got goosebumps from Montana, that's the kind of love you don't want to pass up.

koru said...

@ Emma,

I wish I had advice on the Missoula/Eugene dilemma. All I have is empathy, no advice. My decision in the end came down to choosing between two programs with different but both awesome opportunities. Either choice was going to mean giving something up as well as gaining a lot. Choices between great options aren't easy. Good luck, and be at peace with wherever you end up. xx koru

Ena said...

@Dreux

No one is trashing him--least of all Austin and I--in fact everyone has said how nice/helpful he was/is. BUT IT STILL HAPPENED.

And what happened sucked.

And we reacted to that happening in a spur of feeling (on this blog) that we have since gotten over in the sense that alright, it's not a good match for us because Jim said they're not looking to get us to a PhD in this program.

What's really "fair" is your personal attack on our opinion at a SITUATION, not a person and their niceness or generosity.

If this had happened with any other school, or if it had happened to you, don't even pretend that we would be having this conversation. As it is, I am fully ready to dismiss anything else you have to say on the matter with a basic good riddance.

Andrea said...

Thank you all again for the congratulations and happy birthdays and all other forms of love and goodness! What a rad day!

Woon, if you tell us your real age, I'll tell you mine. Or you could just click on my profile and see that today I turn 24.

Dammit! Foiled again...

Unknown said...

Ena,

You won't be the first, and you won't be the first to do so because you took something that wasn't even directed at you personally.

Why the hell would you apply to Greensboro with the intention of going on to a PhD, anyway. It's a two year studio program. There are 3 year programs with some serious literature focus out there, apply to those.

koru said...

@ Dreux,

your loyalty and vitriol bring the following to mind: this video

I don't have a dog in this fight. I didn't apply to UNCG, and I have already made a decision. But I feel sincerely sorry for anyone who had an offer taken away from them.

JimfifeOH said...

Accepted to Minni State Moorhead for CNF, by mail. Will be turning it down, so if any waitlisters are out there, heads up...not sure if I came off the waitlist (I had not been contacted previous to receiving the Grad studies letter)--likely so, I'd say.

Best to everyone at crunch time! I'll be attending Georgia College & State U this fall. Take care.

JimfifeOH said...

P.S. re: Minnesota St. Moorhead--the letter came today or yesterday.

frankish said...

@koru - Ha! :D

kaybay said...

OOPS! I re-read my posts a lot (hehe, is that narcissistic? Probably.) Anyway, I was re-reading my old post, and I meant to say that I do NOT consider myself to write in a "very conservative" style. I left out the oh so important negative in that sentence. Sorry to confuse anyone. Not that anyone really cares all that much, but still. I don't read my comments very thoroughly. Yeah.

many many birdies said...

I have not read any of the comments yet, but I just spied Dreux's name --- I can die happy now, because I'm about to find out what happened to Dreux.

kaybay said...

G-Dammit! Grammar errors... let's just put in an addendum: "I do NOT write in a 'very conservative' manner."

I feel like I'm talking to myself. It's kind of embarrassing.

Zoulou said...

@kaybay - lol :D

Woon said...

@kaybay - that crucial line about your conservative style of writing (corrected to: NOT conservative) was what prompted me to post about ND and Steve Tomasula. Now that you've corrected your error, I will retract my post. Just forget I posted it. And you can also delete your reply to my post. And so on down the chain.

many many birdies said...

@seth - I sent you an invitation.

many many birdies said...

why isn't anyone posting in the new mail bag except for me? it totally makes me feel uncool.

many many birdies said...

@ woon

a large factor in my decision was that at the program I'm going to I will not have to do any research (no straight lit courses) if I don't have to. I can complete the entire MFA taking only workshops and writing form classes.

but I can also take chaucer with the PhDs if I suddenly forget why I didn't want to write any more lit papers in my lifetime.

Unknown said...

I fully understand why someone would take all the craziness coming out of Greensboro the wrong way. I didn't know what to make of it before I visited, to be honest. It only took a few minutes of seeing how Jim does business down there for it to become obvious that Jim's a good guy -- he's the one that should be cheered on.

I'm not denying that it would be a total nightmare to get an acceptance and lose it, especially if it was potentially the best one you had on your plate. I understand the feeling. Greensboro is right up there for me. And while I wasn't expecting that an acceptance would spell funding automatically, I was pretty shocked to learn the degree to which he's having to fight to get ANYONE some money this year. It's totally crazy.

T said...

I hate reading about Montana because it sounds so amazing I want to go so bad and I don't have a TA'ship.
Emma - you are fortunate - go to Missoula!

Annieo said...

Emma, I lived in Montana a few years. Clearly, I'm not as useful as a UM writing student but if you have geographic questions, feel free to ask.

many many birdies said...

re: UNCG

Maybe I am just really naive, but I do feel like UNCG didn't really make this whole situation clear on their website.

To be fair, I feel like a lot of schools misrepresent their funding situations on their websites. I don't think UNCG is the only one.

UNCG says admissions is based on the applicant's ability as a potential writer. Then it goes on to say that assistantships are available to many students, and that if you want to be considered for one you have to apply by a certain deadline. To me, this implies that some students will be admitted without aid, and some students will be admitted with aid. It does not imply that students may meet all admission criteria but will not be accepted *only* because funding won't be able to be found for them. Lots of schools accept more students than they can fund, so I feel like this isn't something that people would assume.

I do think it sounds like a crappy situation and I don't blame UNCG. But I do wish they, and a lot of other schools, would be a little more clear about their funding situations. I know these situations change, but I think schools could say something like, "Our funding changes from year to year..." etc.

Sud said...

@koru--LOL--that video is a riot, thanks!

Ariel said...

@ phillywriter, other Indiana waitlisters

I just declined my position at Indiana for Fiction. I got the out-of-office reply email from Samrat, but maybe this will put some wheels in motion and get you in.

This may seem out of the blue, because I have a very hard time getting onto this blog (blocked in China, I can only sneak on sporadically via semi-functional proxy), but I've been following the comments, so I hope this means good news to one of you.

frankish said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
frankish said...

And welcome back, Dreuxie!

Have you decided on a program yet?

Cheers!

koru said...

@megan,

I think there are several layers of issue going on with UNCG, at least from the perspective of an observer ... someone on the faculty there undoubtedly would know the pieces of the puzzle more clearly.

1. is the issue you point out ... it's unclear what percentage of students receive funding.

2. is the much bigger issue, and the one that people are upset with this year, that UNCG did two things to applicants:

a) they sent out a lot of GNE's to persons who were not ultimately admitted, and some who were admitted did not receive GNEs. So they seemed to be stringing along some persons they did not admit, while admitting others they had not courted.

b) The big issue: they extended verbal offers of admission to several students who have subsequently been told those offers are no longer valid or should not have been extended. THAT's the real issue. And that's pretty damned serious. Now, I didnt apply, so I have no idea what was said/how it was phrased, but it's happened to several people here, apparently.

3. There seems to be some lack of clarity on exactly what the holdup is on funding and if/when it might be resolved. It might have to do with waiting for figures from the grad school, might have to do with changes in the budget, might have to do with phases of the moon. Who knows. That info is important for those who still have valid offers from UNCG, and who are considering it alongside other schools. April 15 is looming.

Also, another issue is simply knowing what's going on ... UNCG, I had assumed, and would still like to assume, is a good program. I hope this is a weird one-year off-chance occurance. But knowing what's happened would help us all assess that.

Kevin said...

Moving question.

When's the best time to look for an apartment in a college town-- that is, when do most students move out and flood the market?

I'll probably be moving to Missoula, from the east coast, so I'm trying to figure out how to plan this...

koru said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kendra said...

@ k - I did my undergrad at Missoula, and never had trouble finding a place over the summer. In June one year I called about a FOR RENT sign staked to a lawn, saw the apartment and signed a lease within the hour. If you have the flexibility, I would suggest moving out there before all the undergrads flood the market in August. There's a very quaint residential neighborhood surrounding the campus on three sides, and the apartments around there go pretty quickly.

If you're happy living 1-2 miles away from campus you shouldn't have much trouble at all, even in August. My brother currently lives in a 2-bedroom that's about 1.5 miles from campus (he bikes) and he found it last August. He's got that scruffy cowboy look, and he said some landlords weren't crazy about his stubble - so he got turned down at a few places.

By contrast, the housing situation in Ann Arbor was totally different. Based on current student's recommendations, I actually looked at (and found) an apartment out there over the welcome weekend. My lease starts at the beginning of September (when I begin paying rent), but I've already seen the place and signed on the dotted line. Felt very weird to be looking 6 months ahead of my move-in date. You would *never* have to do that in Montana.

If you have more specific questions about Missoula/housing/moving etc. I'd be happy to take a stab at them either on the blog or off. My email is kendra (dot) shaw (at) gmail.com I was actually pretty stressed out about the cross-country moving situation myself, so I can relate.

Woon said...

re. Apts and general campus/town questions

Obviously, your best source of info is the current grad students and perhaps the MFA grad coordinator/administrator (ask nicely). However, one source of info that isn't as "exploited" enough but are there for the asking are the hundreds of student organizations on campus. So, let's say you're an Argentinian/Brazilian/Korean chess player like me. Go to your school's website and look up the following student organizations:

1. Argentinian student associations
2. Brazilian student associations
3. Korean student associations
4. chess geek club
5. South American student associations
6. Mixed Race student associations

Find their contact info and ask them nicely if you could ask them some basic questions about the campus and the town/city. They'll invariably say, "Oh sure! Fire away!" Then, you send them a list of questions and for the rest of the summer, stick to them like glue to get every ounce of info you need to make your move seemless. Some may even let you crash on their couch for free while you apartment-hunt.

De nada.

Kendra said...

@ k - just re-read your post and thought I'd re-phrase. For Missoula, it would be entirely possible for you to drive out in June/July and be moving into a place that same afternoon. Landlords will have a lot of open places over the summer, and they're just happy to get someone in there. I would check out the classifieds in the Missoulian - or possibly craigslist? Usually, apartments aren't advertised until the current tenant has taken off. I only ever saw empty apartments when I was looking.

Undergrads will move back anywhere from mid-August to the end of August, but most of the saavy ones will line up housing by July.

Hope that helps!

Ena said...

@Dreux

I applied because I had no idea it was a studio program. I have never applied *anywhere* before. I applied to seven schools who offered funding thinking that people everywhere are thinking that MFAs as terminal degrees are a thing of the past.

Until Jim told me otherwise, I really had no idea that this really differed so much in programs--I always figured I would take a bunch of lit classes because everyone would encourage them. So I guess I was naive.

I'm not sure I even understand the point of your snide query: why do you care where I applied? The fact that I realized my mistake and declined the offer? That has nothing to do with you or anyone else.

And I did "apply to those"--thank god they didn't retract their invitations!

Unknown said...

@ Frankish,

No decision yet. Waiting to see what comes of intriguing situations (hi, UNCG) as well as a really plum wait listing that has yet to resolve itself.

Besides that I have a couple solid, funded offers.

All the same, this may not be the year of the MFA for me. There are other cool things I could be doing, and as ready as I was to get going this year, I might just decide to do something else.

Ask me again on April 15th. =)

Woon said...

re. apt-hunting (cont.)

Back when we didn't have the Internet, I just flew to my future town in mid-April and knocked on houses, door by door, in the neighborhood I wanted to live in. Most will turn you away, but some jumped at the chance to rent out a room to well-mannered, well-groomed, attractive grad/professional students, esp. those of mixed Argentinian/Brazilian/Korean ethnicity.

Unknown said...

Oh, and to the folks speculating on UNCG's funding situation thus far, I will tell you what I know with 2 caveats:

1. Jim will gladly tell you first-hand what's up, so you need not listen to my 2nd-hand info.

2. Things tend to change for the better in the 11th hour at Greensboro, so I wouldn't draw any conclusions about their funding this year until April 15th has come and gone.

That said, as far as I know, there is no funding for fiction writers at UNCG at this time. No offers of funding have been extended to fiction acceptances. This is, of course, really unprecedented and everyone involved in the fiction side of the program is pretty riled up.

The poetry side, as I understand it, is in a slightly better position, but I didn't ask for any details.

Ruin Christmas said...

@Seth

re: South Carolina

I live here. I'm a carpetbagger/Yankee. SC has friendly people, great weather, tasty fried food, low cost of living and a high illiteracy rate. I didn't apply to USC because they required a sample of academic writing. I don't have one lying around and didn't feel like generating one for only one program. Not sure if that requirement lowered the application rate by more than one, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Ruin Christmas said...

@Seth

I appreciate all the hard work you put into the rankings. I have one minor complaint. When I saw the programs that are red and have the ^ next to their names, my first impression was that these schools are the ones that are rising through the rankings. When I read the footnotes, I realized that they are actually CGSR violators/non-participants. To prevent confusion, you might want to change the color and/or symbol.

Unknown said...

Hey guys

I haven't posted in awhile... waiting on a wait-list and I haven't had much to say beyond the usual Oh-eM-Gee I JUST WANT TO KNOW ALREADY! rant.

BUT
@ frankish
I live in Tallahassee, shoot me an email if you want any info! Tally might as well be in another hemisphere when compared to Miami, which is probably the more typical "Floridian" destination that people generally think of. I've lived in So' Flo' and can offer some insight. I also work at FSU and know some people involved in the CW program. meredith(dot)c(dot)fraser(at)gmail(dot)com, if that info would help you at all!

also, @ UNCG junk
Look, I still haven't heard from them. I don't think it's personal with Jim Clark or Terry, etc. It's just a rough situation, for everyone, but I know if I had gotten that golden phone call, only to have them be like admit it's not for sure... I might have had a nervous breakdown. Regardless of whose fault it is, the institution's rep should suffer. I think that's fair. Dreux, you're biased, but also probably better informed than most. Maybe you're more steely than those who got pseudo-acceptances, but try to have a little sympathy for the people who don't have "fall-back" acceptances. Kay? Kay. I probably won't read whatever you have to say in response, as I'm trying to avoid this effing blog right now. Just sayin'. From an outsider's POV. Well, a relative outsider.

Now watch me get into UNCG, and Dreux and I end up as fiction rivals. Yeah, sure. Honestly, I would welcome that situation with cartwheels and unadulterated glee. No worries D, it won't happen. (Seriously though, congrats on UNCG. I'm jealous. I know that's sort of odd, given my earlier stance, but I wouldn't give a damn if my school was known for fishy acceptance activity. It's a killer program. Kay, that's all. G'night all.)

Unknown said...

In other news, is there anyone out there who is sitting on a UNCW fiction spot who's planning to attend or not? Just wondering....

(speaking of fishy acceptance activity.... UNCW, what?)

Unknown said...

Meredith,

To be totally honest, whether one has a back-up acceptance is quite relative, especially in my case. Like I said to Frankish, this may not be the year of the MFA for me.

Partly that's a reflection of other cool stuff I could be doing. But I also can't help but think that if I'd gotten what I really, really wanted out of this process, there would be no such question. I'd be on my way. So in a sense the UNCG drama is affecting me as much as it is anyone else, and I have no more reason to be in their corner than someone who didn't get in yet. Because the funding issue could very well prevent me from being able to even consider going there, and it's a funding issue that I never foresaw being as severe as it now is, given their relatively good track record of finding some way to fund folks they admit.

Also, you very well could end up getting in. I know there are a few potential acceptances still on Jim's list who he hasn't been able to notify because of the money thing. The likelihood that enough money gets discovered for him to not only fund his small crop of current admittances, but to also go further down the list, seems to me like it would be pretty small. But it could always happen. And it could also happen that he doesn't secure money and has to dig deep down the list to put together an incoming class this year without funding to offer.

Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

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Anonymous said...

i visited your site n was good enough then othere site that i visited last month



work and study

frankish said...

@Kon - I'm glad you showed up. Where's the $20 you owe me?

Jasmine Sawers said...

KON!

Ryan Forsythe said...

@Morgan. Congrats on San Diego State! That's my #1 choice (for Fiction), so I'm happy to hear the answer might be coming soon.

Can you tell us how you heard (email, letter, phone call)? Any other info you could provide would be great (i.e. did they say anything about funding?).

Congrats again!

Morgan said...

@Ryan

Thanks!! I got an email. There was an acceptance letter attached (dated April 9). As far as funding, the letter included a paragraph about financial aid at SDSU. It just pointed me to the website.

Good luck to you!

Ashley Brooke said...

OMG YTMND it's 2004 on the internet! Love it!

Woon said...

Damn. It's raining here in California. It's a reminder that I should try to avoid rain metaphors in my stories. Don't you just hate rain scenes in movies? It's a not-so-subtle hint that people are sad. Duh. I avoided rain scenes in my MFA writing samples.

Snow metaphors are okay. But only if set in Hawaii.

koru said...

re: UNCG.

ok, this saga is getting weirder. a real-life friend just got a GNE from them very recently. not admitted yet, but suggesting the person might be soon.

all this while there are folks on this blog who were accepted and then had their offers revoked.

something's not adding up. :-(

Lauren said...

I love how I was so sure I'd know exactly where I was going by now. I wish I'd have anticipated this whole waitlist situation.

It's becoming totally obvious that many, many of us will STILL not know where we're headed by April 15. It will be later for us, because if people don't decline offers until April 15, it's going to take some time after that to go through the ocean of waitlists out there. So much for "At least this will all be over by April 15." It WON'T be over.

Factor in schools like FSU who haven't even finished admitting people...!?!?

It's one big waitlist logjam clusterfuck and it's really pissing me off!

Woon said...

We need an MFA logjam laxative.

kaybay said...

Lauren, you must be reading my mind, because that's my exact frustration right now. I don't understand it, either. How is it that some programs finalize everything by early March and others will be fumbling for all eternity? I actually think that I'm fortunate to not have an offer of acceptance right now because I'd be extra frustrated. I do think for someone like you, with two acceptances, that you ask for an extension to make a decision. If denied that, call the poop out of your remaining schools and then accept one of your offers already on the table if you don't get any news. This is kinda ridonculous and they need to know that they'll lose good writers because of their silly ways.

Woon said...

Well, I'm going for my 4-mile run, followed by a French Dip sandwich.

Lauren said...

@Woon,

LOL, agreed!

I'm wondering what happens if I feel I need to accept my funded spot soon (so I don't lose it) -- and then at some point after April 15 I get a call that I'm off the funding waitlist at the program I wanted more?

Juliana Paslay said...

Has anyone heard a nay from Hollins yet? Are they just waiting until April 15th to let anyone go? How is that fair? Can they just reject me already? They are my last school. I am TIRED.

frankish said...

@Lauren & kaybay - Ugh. I feel for you. The waiting needs to end at some point! :/

Luckily or unluckily, I'm not on any waiting lists (at least any that I'm aware of), which probably has to do more with my 82% rejection rate than anything else. I don't think I could take it another week.

I recommend a huge glass of red wine.

Good luck!

Anonymous said...

@Lauren

I agree 100%.

I didn't get any straight-up acceptances -- just a handful of rejections and three(!) waitlists. Now, I'm just sitting here, languishing in MFA purgatory; and I've got a bad feeling that April 15 won't bring with it any solution.

What really sucks is that all three of my waitlist schools are really tough to get into, which means that I'll probably wait all this time and not get into any of them. Awesome.

koru said...

believe it or not, waitlists are the place to be right now ...

first, because a lot of people are making decisions, and so spots are opening up.

secondly, there are some schools who are still getting their act together about funding. i had to turn down two offers with higher "recommended" funding packages simply because the schools were going to know for certain if the funding came through onle AFTER 15 April. For someone who gets in during the next few weeks at those schools, well, you'll be able to sneer at me the next few years as you live off caviar and champers with those big packages. I just wasnt enough of a betting betty to risk taking an offer like that without knowing for certain. but by the time they offer waitlisters those slots, they should know for certain about the money.

dont give up hope. i know it's been a long slog ... but an extra week or two will probably be making several of you happy.

xx koru

nattyish said...

Jasmine, re: KON

Freakin' brilliant.

Ali Haider said...

I just accepted my spot at Texas State for fiction.

Nervous about the coming year. But excited too!

Ananda said...

@Woon
RE: your list of possible jobs:

I vote for #3 or, more likely, something not listed

#9 -- doubtful with all that GRE braggin'

#10 -- not possible -- you chronicle too many activities

#12 -- eliminated due to too much running

#13 -- eliminated due to too much conjugating

So -- my three were wrong, huh? I assumed UF to be still in play because of your voodoo doll, but if not then perhaps VA? And maybe I mixed ND and PU (Ha!)? or maybe those are #2 and #3?

I feel like I'm playing that game Mastermind from my childhood -- give me a clue! how many right and how many right in the right spaces?

Ananda said...

@Dreux
So glad to see you back!
Interested to see where you decide to go, if you go

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Does anyone remember YARebels? I really wanted to bone her.

Michael said...

I feel I need to take a quick moment to offer my thanks to Seth.

I applied last year and was basically grasping in the dark when I decided on my list of schools. As such I ended up applying to a very narrow range - ten schools that are really, really competitive. I was accepted at two with an offer of funding at neither. After much agonizing I decided to wait and reapply. In the off-season I discovered the holy scriptures of Seth Abramson. Armed with much, much better information, I began the process again.

This year I applied to ~ten and was accepted to four, three of them fully funded. I am so glad I found Seth's stats, and so glad I followed his advice (and the advice of others) to wait a year and try for full funding. Seth, it is a wonderful thing you're doing here. I really, really appreciate it. I can't beieve the morons who come on here and bitch about your methods. Please disregard them and understand that 99% of people feel the same as me - very grateful.

Thank you again, Seth. Hope all is going well for the rest of you. After all this build up, can't wait to start my program in the fall.

Seth Abramson said...

@all

Last call for posting your application lists (how about one last surge before the 15th...?) -- speak now or forever &c &c...

@Michael

So glad it worked out for you! Congrats!

Cheers,
S.

J said...

For Seth:

All fiction

Minnesota
Michigan
Wyoming
SIUC
Maryland
Wisconsin
Ole Miss
UNCG
Iowa
Vandy
Virginia

Chrissy said...

Final list for Seth, for fiction:

University of Wisconsin-Madison - rejected
Vanderbilt - rejected
University of Oregon - rejected
UNCG - accepted, funding pending.

Kate said...

Hey Homies,

I just turned down my Columbia spot for poetry. It was unfunded, but Timothy Donnelly said he was trying to find me some funding. However, if he could, it would probably only have been 8000 a year, and that don't cut it in NY!

I do hope that may help someone.

Also, received my UMASS "we aren't offering you a TO posish, but if you keep waiting until the late summer we just might find one for ya!" letter yesterday. Eek!

Holy crap it's almost the 15th!

lookylookyyonder said...

final list / tally. i'm not sure, but i may have posted this once before, sans the tally, as "Mike."

montana - accepted (funding unlikely)
george mason - accepted (funded)
temple - accepted (funding pending)
nyu - waitlisted

iowa - ding
brown - ding
michigan - ding
indiana - ding
houston - ding
arizona - ding
virginia - ding
syracuse - ding
wash u - assumed ding

lookylookyyonder said...

poetry, i should add.

Lexie said...

For Seth:

Hunter College
City College

for poetry

KSerra said...

For Seth:

In fiction:

San Francisco State University (MFA)*
University of San Francisco
Saint Mary's College

*Attending

T said...

@ Seth
For fiction

Accepted: Montana
Rejected: UVA, Vanderbilt
Never Heard Back: Florida, Arkansas

Woon said...

@everyone -- I've enjoyed your company and all of your posts during this application season. I don't know how I would've made it without you'se. I'll be visiting my future MFA program in late April to apartment-hunt and then, I'll be working on my thesis so that I'll have a first draft before school starts.

Before I sign off permanently, I'd like to offer one bit of advice that I myself learned many times over during the course of my 86 years: Don't look back. People have this tendency to be discontented or unhappy about their situation/station in life because of a regretful decision or a desire to play "what if" games in their head. Well, that's dangerous thinking. Regrets and "what ifs" hold you back, root you in the past. You should always look forward and throw yourself completely toward the decision you've made. I know it's hard to do, but you've got to do it; otherwise, you risk being dissatisfied all over again.

Good luck. Goodbye.

frankish said...

How do you guys and gals turn down offers, by phone or email? I want to be considerate but don't want to be uncomfortable.

Blech. This is like breaking up. :P

Thanks!

Mr. Hemlock said...

Seth,

Let me add my thanks for all your research on MFA programs and for creating this blog. It's been enormously helpful in my applications and the nail biting period that followed.

My list:

Brooklyn College - committed.
UNCG - in limbo pending funding.
FSU - ?

Iowa - rejected.
UVa - rejected.
Madison - rejected.
Minnesota, Twin Cities - rejected.
Oregon - rejected.
Syracuse - rejected.
Arizona State- rejected.

Mr. Hemlock said...

Woon,

Will you be apartment hunting near Colorado State?

Also, I need to know what you will be eating for lunch in the coming weeks. Maybe you could post a weekly menu.

Caitlin said...

For Seth, in fiction:

Accepted:
Syracuse (attending)
Purdue
VCU

Waitlisted:
ASU
LSU
UNCW

Rejected:
Iowa WW
Florida
OSU
UMass Amherst
VaTech
Indiana
Alabama

Thanks for all your help, Seth!

Unknown said...

@ Seth

Application list in fiction:

Indiana
Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign
Colorado State
UCSD
Rutgers-Newark
Iowa
Michigan
Wisconsin-Madison
SAIC
Brooklyn College
Brown
LSU
ASU
Alabama
UNCG
Florida
UC Irvine
Syracuse
UT Austin

Daniel said...

Final list for Seth

in fiction

Southern Illinois - Accepted, attending
Syracuse - waitlisted
Columbia College Chicago - accepted
Indiana - Rejected
Alabama - Rejected
Purdue - Rejected
Arkansas - Rejected
Notre Dame - Rejected
Minnesota - Rejected
Rutgers Newark - Rejected
Vanderbilt - Rejected
Wash U St Louis - Rejected
Illinois - Rejected

Good luck to everyone.

Perpetua said...

Seth - Final List (Fiction)

Accepted-
University of Colorado with Fellowship
University of New Orleans (funding pending)
Bowling Green State University (fully funded)

Waitlisted-
UNLV
Columbia
Purdue

Rejected-

Ohio State University
University of California Irvine
Brown University
University of Alabama
University of Michigan
UNCW
University of Notre Dame
University of Iowa
Syracuse University
Vanderbilt University
Johns Hopkins University

Ali said...

Accepted (poetry):

Chapman
UNO (low-res)
Fairfield Univ. (low-res)

Unlucky:

Pacific
Warren Wilson
UAA
VCFA

Still waiting:

Cal State Long Beach
Antioch - deferred to Dec.
Bennington
UCR (low-res)

Perpetua said...

Seth - Forgot to add:

FSU (waiting to hear back)

many many birdies said...

For Seth, even though I still don't understand what is being done with this information:

In poetry all around:

Accepted at:

UNH, no funding (attending)
Emerson, with 75% tuition remission

Rejected by:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
UVa
U. Arizona

Never heard from:

UNCG


If this is going into some statistical compilation of what MFA hopefuls think are the best programs, perhaps I should mention that I no longer believe these seven programs are the best generally, or even the best for me. I have learned a lot since last summer, and if I were to apply again, I would probably nix about five of those schools as not a good match for what I am looking for.

many many birdies said...

@ Frankish,

the only school I had to decline requested I do so in writing. But if I was going to choose between the phone and email, I'd personally go with a brief, cheerful phone call to the department secretary.

You don't have to feel badly or feel like it's a break-up. Schools fully expect that a certain number of accepted students will decline their offer.

Sud said...

@ali-where are you going to attend?

Sud said...

@ali-where are you going to attend?

Sud said...

@megan--I have the same idea as you...if we applied somewhere, does that constitute a vote? If I applied to 4 or 5 of the top schools, only because they were already listed as "top" schools, it will increase their selectivity ranking, but doesn't really say anything about what I think of their programs, because I only used the rankings (of those) as a criteria. Round and round.
This is not a criticism of Seth, I'm very grateful for all of his work on our behalf, but I do think about this, particularly for the low res programs, since I applied to several.

Seth Abramson said...

@megan/@sud

Ah, you see, that's why I do rankings every year. :-) The rankings are a snapshot of what applicants believed and valued at a particular moment in time.

That said, assuming this doesn't lead to complete craziness, I will say that the rankings have always accepted either application lists or lists of programs you believe are the best. So if anyone is so unhappy with the list they used this time around that they literally feel the need to "de-vote" a program -- i.e., they're not satisfied with the rankings as a snapshot of where they were several months ago, but feel so betrayed or dissatisfied with a particular program that they need their voice to be heard now (rather than in next year's rankings) -- I'm all ears.

S.

many many birdies said...

@ seth:

ah, the poet in my likes that. a snapshot of what we all were thinking back in the fall.... :)

Sud said...

@Seth-Thanks, but not sure I'm ready to de-vote (although, I'd probably take Oxford off my list)..more like I'd like to see us all come back to the blog next year and weigh in on the schools we're attending.
Again, thanks for everything.

Vanni said...

all for poetry. forgive the lack of caps; i'm typing on me phone. accepted: george mason, western michigan

waitlisted: oregon state, syracuse

rejected: brown, IWW

nothing, nada, zilch: unlv, ucr, sdsu, vcu, hollins

koru said...

@Frankish,

I turned down offers via email. And in the email I told them which school I had decided on. Those were not easy to write emails, at all! ugh.

re: making a decision ... it felt a lot like this

@Seth,

Hopefully I've not just created chaos. I just sent an email de-voting two of the schools I had applied to. And explained why.

nattyish said...

Hey all,
Just letting you know that I've accepted in fiction at UMass Boston, after being offered an assistantship there. If there's anyone else on the blog going to UMass Boston, or any of the schools in Boston, who wants to chat, feel free to drop me a line! I'm nattyish at gmail.

Super excited to start in the fall!

@koru
I love that Monkees song! I always use it as a segue into this song.

koru said...

@ Nathaniel,

I didn't know that Byrds song! Oh, to be able to have a menage-a-trois with two programmes instead of the monogamy of choosing just one programme! Would have made my life A LOT easier not having to choose just one! :-)

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

my list for poetry:

University of Alabama
LSU
University of Mississippi (Ole Miss)
American University
Boston University
George Mason University
University of Washington
University of Miami
McNeese State University
University of Memphis
Florida State University

All rejects. Guess I'm going to try again next year.

threes said...

I think I've given Seth my list before, but just in case:

Accepted:
UNCW (w/ funding)
George Mason (w/o funding)
Pitt (w/o funding)

Waitlisted:
Notre Dame
Western Michigan

Rejected:
Iowa
Michigan
Syracuse
Wisconsin
Purdue
Illinois
Wash-U St. Louis
Ohio St.
BGSU

All in fiction. Thanks, Seth.
Last year I didn't get in anywhere, so to everyone sitting in that boat now, keep your head up, keep writing, and reapply!

kaybay said...

Mantis - are you assuming rejection from FSU or did you actually here from them?

kaybay said...

Congrats, Threes :) Do you know where you are on the wait list for Notre Dame and if you plan on removing yourself from it any time soon. *cough cough* ;)

threes said...

Thanks, Kaybay. You are funny! I have already removed myself and unfortunately I don't think it helped you much; I don't know my exact spot but it was pretty low. ND waitlisted me last year, too!, so it was nice of them to let me know that that was no fluke; I am definitely almost but not quite good enough to be part of their program :) Best of luck, I'll be rooting for you!

morgan said...

hm... it might just be me, but letting people "unvote" seems a little questionable for several reasons. Wouldn't people's idea of the "best" program be drastically altered by where they were accepted/rejected? And was the option offered in past years of data collecting?

Not trying to be confrontational at all, I'm just curious...

Unknown said...

@ Seth, my list for fiction (all are low-res programs):

Accepted:
Carlow University: Attending
Converse College
Fairleigh Dickinson University
Pine Manor College

Rejected:
USM Stonecoast
Warren Wilson

Thanks for all you do, Seth!

Lydia E. Wright said...

@Seth

My list for Fiction

UCI
UCSD
UCR
CalArts
USC
CSULB
SDSU
CSUSB
Otis
Chapman

Anonymous said...

@kaybay

I'm assuming rejection for FSU. I'd be very surprised at an acceptance this late.

Rhizobium said...

The final list, all for poetry:

Penn State - Attending, with full tuition remission, TAship, and scholarship
Chatham (Accepted with possible fellowship and assistantship, declined offer)

The rest:
Alabama
Indiana
FSU
Montana
Virginia
Virginia Tech

Considering I'm coming straight out of undergrad with no expectations about the MFA application process, I am extremely excited that I got into one of my top programs on the first go-around.

Good luck to everyone else still waiting! AWP is over (just flew in from Denver this afternoon) so there's no more distractions.

Echidne41 said...

My list for CNF:

Accepted:

Montana
Memphis
UNH
George Mason
U of Idaho
Ohio State (off the waitlist)

Waitlisted:

Wyoming

Rejected:

Minnesota (Twin Cities)

Still no word:

U of Arizona

koru said...

@morgan,

i can see where you're coming from on that. i sent Seth my "unvote" request and explanation via email. but now that he has the reason why, i'm sure he's capable of deciding if it ought to be an "unvote".

and it had nothing to do with me getting in or not. :) had to do with other unprofessional stuff going on at that school. if i were helping a friend apply next year, i'd certainly steer them clear of there, so it's nice to have the option of my vote not helping a school stay up in the rankings if they've acted poorly.

many many birdies said...

congratulations, nathaniel!!!! I'm so happy you got an assistantship! way way cool. :)

Seth Abramson said...

Morgan,

You're right, which is why I said "I'm all ears" but I'm not sure yet what I would do, if anything, with the information. That said, I don't think people act the way you're supposing -- so far people have unvoted programs (and there's only been three instances) only that they feel lied to them during the admissions process in some way or cheated them in some substantial sense. I'm certainly open the possibility that, in those rare instances, someone may have a strong moral aversion to having "voted" for a program they no longer want to in any way endorse. But no, I don't think people would "un-vote" a program simply because they didn't get in! You'd be surprised how responsible and honorable you guys are! :-)

But your point is taken, still...

S.

Anonymous said...

@Perpetua -

Different Daniel here than the one who posted their final list right before you. I almost applied to Univ. New Orleans full residency this year but got tired after many other apps and also wasn't quite sure I wanted to live there. I'm very likely not going to end up going anywhere this year. I might do another round of apps next year, and might consider them again esp. because since my last decision not to apply Seth rated their funding as "above average" or something like that. I guess they haven't told you your funding situ. yet or as of that posted list of schools, but I'm curious if you know anything about what their funding is actually like. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Does any one have any insights or info. about San Jose State? They accepted me for fiction, but I applied on a lark because it's quite near me. They're faculty has been quite friendly and welcoming. Their admissions and financial aid bureaucracy runs on an incredibly late schedule. Their list of offered courses have the feel that maybe they just tagged on a few workshops and creative thesis to a pre-existing M.A. in English lit. program: a lot of lit. classes with a theme analysis and not craft analysis focus. But I have until May 1 to decide and am still researching them.

nattyish said...

Thanks megan!

Courtney said...

@Seth

Can you rank the strength of the cohort at the following schools for CNF from strongest to weakest?

UNCW, Hollins, George Mason, Sarah Lawrence College and Columbia

I would go by your selectivity rankings, but it's a bit harder for nonfiction...so then should I go by the nonfiction rankings? If that's the case do I assume the order of: UNCW, Hollins, George Mason, Sarah Lawrence and then Columbia? Is your opinion of the strongest program in line with your rankings? Thanks for the help.

-nonfiction Courtney

Courtney said...

@EmilyA

Congrats on Bath!!! How exciting! I've turned down my spot, but a year in Bath would be fantastic. I love it there. I have a friend I could put you in touch with who went there for undergrad for writing and currently is a writer living in Bath, if you have any questions. I decided not to go for a number of reasons, but mostly because I wanted to be in school writing for more than one year. I do know that Bath's program is well regarded. Congrats and good luck with your decision!

-nonfiction Courtney

koru said...

woohoo! it's decision week :D

to send good vibes to one and all ... a theme song for the week.

and for those still waiting to hear, fingers, toes and ears crossed for you.

Juliana Paslay said...

Man, Hollins is getting more and more irritating. I sent an email asking if they could give me any update on when people might hear from them or if we should just assume rejection and all they could give me was. "I think soon" and "nope".

COME ON! GIVE ME SOMETHING! grah.

Juliana Paslay said...

@Koru

I believe I have made my mind up to learn some of those epic dance moves.

Juliana Paslay said...

@Koru

Also what is up with those lyrics? "Don't let your indecision take you from behind" I mean, I realize we're all stressed out but that's a little graphic....

Perpetua said...

Daniel - New Orleans claims to provide funding for everyone in the second year and TRIES to provide funding for everyone in the first year but the dollar amount differs from person to person. In the acceptance letter they sent me I was told that I would only find out about funding in late April which in my opinion is too late. But in their defence they are having problems due to cutbacks etc.

I would have loved to go to CWW since they allow their MFA students to take a Masters level class which is taught by some really well-known writers including Richard Ford (sigh) but as it stands now I will most likely be turning down the spot.

Best of luck to you for next year.

koru said...

@coughdrop,

it's eurovision. and from the early 80s. it's sort of the crossroads of all that is wrong in music.

and it is in my itunes, oh my! :-)

my goal in grad school is just to be better dressed than the band is in that video, lol. even on a grad stipend, should not be difficult! :-P

i have no comment on the lyrics, other than they make me giggle.

DisplayedName said...

Hey Mr. Seth -

Is it true that some larger programs keep an internal ranking of their MFA students, for prizes, residencies, etc?

phillywriter said...

OK, AWP is over now, yet there's nothing but silence on my end. Indiana, please make me a Hoosier, and I promise I'll make you proud!

Inkli (or mj), if you hear anything, let me know.

Losing my mind in this waiting game.

Unknown said...

@phillywriter

I was an MFA Applicant last year and I check these boards occasionally to see what's going on in the Applications world.

And I've got to say, I am rooting for you...I've actually been checking rather obsessively these last couple weeks hoping to find that you've heard good news.

Stay hopeful.

phillywriter said...

Thanks, Ryan. Are you in an MFA program now?

inkli__11 said...

i haven't heard anything yet, phillywriter.. i will post if i do! hopefully, you will do the same. i really think you'll be getting the call soon based on how much earlier you received the just-touching-base email.

phillywriter said...

@inkli

Don't worry - I'll definitely post if I hear anything!

Fingers crossed for both of us.

Unknown said...

@philly

Yes. However, I left the program I originally went to and transfered to another.

Courtney said...

@All Decision time, please help

I'm deciding on the following schools for creative nonfiction, can you guys weigh in? Right now I live in NYC, but I'm not opposed to a move...I just want to go to the best program

Columbia (no funding)
George Mason (no funding yet)
Hollins (partial funding)
Sarah Lawrence (small funding)

UNCW- still on the waitlist

I'm really struggling to make a decision and would love ANY insight. Thanks!

Sud said...

@everyone--I think this has been around awhile, but my daughter just sent it to me and I think it's funny. Creative writing -100.
http://www.kontraband.com/pics/22193/FW-FW-FW-Creative-Writing-Assignment/

Unknown said...

Maybe I'm just completely clueless, but are there any rules as to how we must accept? As in, is an email/call good enough for April 15th until we send in the paperwork, or should we get that in before the fifteenth, too? this wouldn't be a problem if certain schools coughemersonlsufsucough got their crap together!

Unknown said...

@ Nonfiction Courtney

it sounds like you're taking advice, so i hope you don't mind if chime in!

i only applied for nonfiction at one school as a secondary concentration, so I'm not particularly familiar with those programs at any of the schools on your list, but my first thought in nonfiction was that, aside from books, your main publishing outlets are the same of those pursuing non-news feature journalism. have you looked into connections btwn faculty/programs/internships, etc. in columbia's cnf program with their journalism school? like i said, i don't know much about that particular program, but i would think, if there is a cross-connection, access to columbia's highly regarded journalism school (a top 5) would be a huge benefit of that program--though i think CNF is a big focus within the writing program as well.

i would also consider whether the CNF programs are dwarfed by fiction/poetry at the other schools. that would be a concern for me at hollins or sarah lawrence, where i've heard great things about fiction and poetry, repectively, but nothing about CNF--again, i wasn't looking for info on those programs when researching those schools, but in the general ether i've never encountered authors of those programs in the (very mainstream) nonfiction i read or heard much about them, as i have with some columbia cnf grads--which may just mean they're newer programs, or have smaller focus, or targeted to diff. outlets.

it sounds like you will have to take on debt at any of your programs, so i would consider that first if that's your most major concern or a dealbreaker and then evaluate the program features separately.

best of luck with your decision!

SarahMarian said...

Has anyone heard anything re: movement on either the TNS or SLC waitlists? Fiction? Just curious.

kbtoys said...

I am also on the Sarah Lawrence and The New School waitlists. Visiting Sarah Lawrence tomorrow (just in case), and after speaking to the director of the new school's program, seems like I might not be hearing until the summer.

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