Thursday, March 25, 2010

Mailbag, Thursday, March 25, 2010 - plus, gosh-darn-it, some actual content!

Hi Everyone,

The new content posting has been pretty quiet around here as I seem to be one of the only people updating the blog these days, what with Tom and Seth busy writing and all, and I have been distracted myself -- with writing, teaching, editing, etc. Never fear. I'll continue to throw up new mailbags, and though the blog tends to quiet down over the summer, there will be semi-regular new posts with relevant MFA related content, so be sure to check back, no matter your status heading into the fall.

For now I have a grab-bag of links for you, and some questions I want to throw out there, and a few thoughts.

The eminently sane Vince Gotera (whose personal statement advice has already proved helpful to many an MFA applicant) has advice about how to handle acceptances, rejections, and (maybe most importantly) waitlists. Sure, this is from 2006, but I think it still stands.

Gotera suggests that if you end up with rejections, you should try and figure out why. The new incarnation of ALC, known as Driftless House (and which seems to be ALC minus Seth) is offering a service to help you do just that. You give them ten pages of fiction, or five of poetry, plus your list of schools, plus $90, and in return you'll get "in-line notes and an evaluation letter." That's nine or eighteen bucks a page! Just sayin'. (I work for less than that, if you are interested...)

This brings me to some questions: If you didn't get accepted, will you be reapplying next year? And what, if anything, do you think you gained from going through the process this time around?

For what it's worth, I always tell my MFA application students and clients that they should think of an MFA as a five or six year process: one or two years to apply, two or three years in the program, and a year to adjust afterward. And that's a minimum, in my opinion.

Also for what it's worth: last year I worked with someone going through her fourth year of applications. She'd been waitlisted before, but never had any full offers. After polishing up her stories and statements she went at it again and was accepted, in fiction, at multiple top schools, including Hollins, Brooklyn, and UNCW [Updated - it was actually UNCG, my mistake.] I can't take much credit on that one -- she did so well because she didn't give up, and used the time in between applications to workshop, hone her craft, and improve her stories. By the time I met her she was already in good shape and just needed guidance on statements and some final developmental feedback. But it goes to show that tenacity pays, both for MFA applications and in your future writing lives. Sometimes the ones who make it are the ones who don't give up.

***end pep talk***

More links: many MFA programs have really terrible websites -- any applicant knows this. But how many have blogs? NMSU does, but I'm not sure of any others. Can we crowdsource this one? Post your links to official (or, I guess, unofficial) MFA blogs in the comments.

Current NMSU student Carrie Murphy also emailed me to let me know about her blog, Master of Fine Eats. "Thought this might be of interest to the MFA blog readers," she wrote, "many of whom are already (if not about to be) poor graduate students."

Last thought: one commentator was lamenting over what to tell your recommenders if you don't have the outcome you were looking for. I say (as a fairly prolific recommendation writer myself) just tell them straight. They won't hold it against you one little bit, and most will be happy to get an update, no matter the results. I sometimes don't hear anything from the people I write recs for -- and I always wish I did.

For all this post's focus on possible less-than-desirable results, the acceptance season is not yet over, and there are still more happy "yay, I've been accepted" comments to come. So don't give up the good fight yet, people!

2,269 comments:

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G said...

@Michael
I'm in the same position. Schools that ask you to wait until the last minute make it almost impossible to accept any offer they would make. You can't visit. They've treated you with almost complete disregard. Even if Oregon were to call me up today and make a great offer (which I don't expect they will but I guess that's beside the point) I'd have to turn them down because I've already accepted an offer from a great school who had their shit together.

And about the SOP's, I think these suck to do, but hopefully they work as a kind of insurance policy to prevent you from getting stuck in workshops with people who might be good writers but are awful to be around and/or work with

alm08 said...

I've never posted before, but this is my list of schools for Seth:

Iowa
Virginia
NYU
Johns Hopkins
Michigan
Michener

This is my first year applying and I just wanted to see what a shot in the dark would hit. I've been accepted at NYU for poetry and received a nice note from Dave Smith with my JHU rejection. Seth's rankings--and the advice of my professors--were really integral to my choice of schools this year; so thanks for your work and I hope this helps.

Not said...

@ratliff, no pressure, but I'm curious to know whether you feel like including your darlings in your writing sample did hurt your application after all. By all accounts, it's been a very competitive year, but still. Any sense of how things went for you versus how they might have gone had you switched up your sample?

(This may be a silly, impossible question.)

Lucas said...

@Peaquah, LAswede, Not, et all

On the SOP thing...word. I by no means wanted to start an argument. If you think they serve a purpose or helped you apply, then cool. I just didn't like writing them and felt like bitching about them for no real reason.

And, as to the other question (about schools), I ain't reapplying, cause I'm going to Old Dominion! My only real offer, and I'm super happy to have it. Checked out the school and it looks bad ass. I've read that Norfolk can be rough, but I can handle that. It can't compare to places I've been on the road with my band (for a few nights, granted, but still...some parts of detroit, baltimore, and philly are harrowing even for a short stay). So, I ain't skeered if Norfolk is a tough town. Beach party!!!!!

Lucas said...

What about you, LAswede? Any news on your front?

Franzine Kafka said...

Michael - I believe U. of Oregon already notified all those accepted and waitlisted about two weeks ago. Or was that just in fiction?

Woon said...

Who is that blonde woman on the UVa website:

UVA's Blonde Woman

She does not look like Deborah Eisenberg or Ann Beattie, unless it was from 15-20 years ago.

inkli__11 said...

anyone else still waiting to hear from university of washington (seattle)?

HappyGoNowhere said...

Seth,

My final list, all for poetry:

Wyoming (accepted w/ full funding)
Alaska-Fairbanks (accepted w/ full funding)
Oregon (no news)

Accepted the offer at Wyoming because they're unbelievably accommodating and generous. Will simultaneously pursue an MS and an MFA.

@Everyone

I've mostly lurked here throughout this crazy process, and I've vicariously appreciated the support and camaraderie among those more prolific blog participants. Very best luck to all! It's final decision time and I wish you all perfect clarity and, of course, ample funding.

Thank you for the sanity and comedy and candor!

Juliana Paslay said...

@inkli

YES I AM. For fiction. Does anyone know anything about this? JUST TELL ME ALREADY WASHINGTON.

Morgan said...

@ Inki

not a word here! (poetry)

@ Michael

nothing from Oregon either. What's the deal? I know they notified fiction, but do I have a prayer for poetry??

LAswede said...

lucas
didn't really want to post anything, but i'm on notre dame's waitlist...so that's pretty rad...congrats on old dominion! that's fantastic!

Mrs. Flatt said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ryan Forsythe said...

@Seth. My list in Fiction:
-SDSU
-CU-Boulder

Yup, that's it.

Leslie said...
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Leslie said...

Been musing on the "murder your darlings" credo. I know I get too attached to my own, no question. How to recognize who truly should be snuffed, though, is so tough.

I started googling around to read discussions of the phrase. I found one site which used "Moby Dick" as an example of someone not murdering his darlings, letting the story drift from Ishmael to Ahab, with all those lovely digressions along the way. certainly any prudent editor would have had Melville cut that to pieces. Thank God prudence was avoided. I adore every wandering non sequitor of the book. And let's not even get started on Joyce!

Now, don't get me wrong--I am not even suggesting to compare my work to Melville or Joyce. But developing the discernment to separate killable non-sequitors from flashes of real, flesh and blood art--man, that's a challenge!

Ratliff said...

@Not - Seeing as how I have not been accepted into any program I've heard back from, I'd have to assume that they at the very least did not help the application. I can't be certain, of course, but looking back on it there were a few I'd rather have not included.

Oh, and my stories have been very short - some under a page, for example. That was more of a technical thing, trying to teach myself how to close the deal as succinctly as possible. I have issues with conclusions. In a way, my entire sample was experimental for me, though perfectly representative of the direction I've been going in lately. Oh well, if anyone's interested in seeing any of what I mean, let me know.

Elissa Cahn said...

M.B. Wells,

I have no recollection of whether I said this already, but please feel free to contact me if you have any questions about Chicago (I've lived here for over 6 years). I don't know yet whether I'll be enrolling in Columbia, but you're welcome to e-mail me at tsgarp314 (at) aol (dot) com. Have a good visit!

Jessa said...

SoPs - I enjoyed writing mine & I think they are especially helpful for poets. A poetry sample will rarely give readers a sense of a writer's basic grammar/comp. skills. As a poet who would like to teach comp. at some point, it was nice to be able to show that skill set.

Also, I'd like to sound my support of writing about an interest in specific faculty- if you know this is what a school wants, give it to them! You don't have to slober on yourself, just convey what you know about your own work that might be influenced by their work. It is common practice in other fields to say something like: "I find Prof. X's research regarding the surface level of Mars fascinating, and hope that under his mentorship I might overcome the difficulties of accurate volcanic mapping in my own research."

MFAs make us all hybrids of artist/academics. I think we all have comfort levels on one side or the other, but the point is to develop both. I find most arguments against mentioning faculty in an SoP imply that it's undignified. I think acknowledging the work of someone you admire and are interested in learning from can be quite classy. In fact, a compliment is almost always classy.

Not said...

@Ratliff -- Thanks so much for sharing; it's helpful to hear how this went for you. That said, I'm sorry it hasn't gone your way so far. Good luck with the rest of your schools!

@Jessa -- That point about MFA students being hybrid artist/academics -- that's fantastic. Seems so true: If I just wanted to be a better artist, I wouldn't need the degree (costly in terms of time or money or both); I could work with writing groups and other acquaintances to improve.

kaybay said...

Congratulations on your wait list, LASwede! I'm on there too, at Notre Dame, although I'm "very low." Do you have any other offers from schools? Do you know where you are on the wait list? I actually think it's kind of better to be on a wait list and not have an offer from another school. If a person pulls out late and the school goes down the wait list, but everyone has already accepted another offer, the only people that are going to be able to accept are those without an offer from another school. If that makes sense. Good luck :)

Arna said...

Just got accepted to Boston in fiction by phone.

I haven't been around the blog for a while because I've gotten really busy, but it's crazy to see the season winding down after such a stressful year. Good luck to anyone still waiting, and congratulations/commiseration to everyone else.

LAswede said...

thank you kaybay, and congratulations on your waitlist as well! no other offers for me, although i still have a couple i haven't heard from yet (ole miss and boise st.)...dr. tomasula was kind enough to call me as well so that was very nice...i suppose we still have a few weeks left of waiting, so i don't know about you, but i'm supernervous!

kaybay said...

LASwede, did Tomasula tell you where you are on the wait list?

LAswede said...

maybe...;)

Zoulou said...

@HappyGoNowhere - I believe I got your UAF funding. God bless you. Good luck at Wyoming! :)

@Not - thanks for posting where that quote came from (the "darlings")! And thanks @Lucas too. Here was me thinking it was just some twisted idea that a business professor made up - thanks for pointing out the source!

Perpetua said...

Micheal - You've probably already done this but I would suggest just calling BGSU about your applications status. To me they seemed very accomodating.

kaybay said...

LASwede, you meanie! :P

LAswede said...

i know, i know...!

About said...

Is anyone else scared as hell about getting an MFA?

I'm scared that I'm going to end up being the biggest hott mess, the biggest epic failure in MFA history. What if I end up with writer's block for two years straight? What if I run out of story ideas and I have nothing to take to workshop? What if I can't even cobble together 75 pages for a thesis.

Holy shit, I'm freaking out.

The OldBoy said...

did y'all see the UVA poetry notification on DH?

Morgan said...

@theoldboy


WHAT

red said...

@ The Oldboy

Yes, I saw it. I'm fiction, but I'm already freaking out... this week is going to suck, I expect.

Otkuda said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Otkuda said...

@xavier--I'm so relieved someone brought this up. I don't know about you, but I don't have any stories lined up AT ALL to workshop. No, that's a lie. Maybe I have just a few 1-3 pagers. But that's it.

I started a novel that's about 60 pages in. But it's the type of manuscript that will run at least 400 pages, and will take 3 or four years to finish because of research (and that's not counting revisions.) So, that's out...unless it's possible to stretch the MFA out longer (I wouldn't mind doing that) or to submit an incomplete manuscript (don't think that's a good option.) So, now, I don't know if I should continue with that or start a new, shorter novel from scratch. That, along with thinking up new stories to write for workshops, is, well, a terrifying thought.

My apologies for the rant up there; I'm just shaking in my boots!

Woon said...

re. writer's block

I have never suffered from wri

MommyJ said...

@woon, ha ha ha ha

Zoulou said...

@Arna - congratulations on Boston! You sure are cleaning up :) Go you!

LAswede said...

i'm definitely pulling for the both of us kaybay, that's for sure...here's hoping you have good news!
cheers!

Alyssa said...

So I came back from my vacation to New York to find a waitlist notification from Notre Dame. I'm really afraid to ask where I am on the list. Pretending that I'm high on the list might be better than knowing I'm last.

This should be the end of the season for me, but I'm on three waitlists, so not really.

kaybay said...

Ugh, there's so many of us :( I want to be the only one!! :X

Summer said...

Virginia notifications are going out? God next week is going to suck.

Anonymous said...

Hello everyone,

Does anyone have any insight on Florida Atlantic University? It seems like it might be a decent program, but their website leaves something to be desired. Anyone here planning to attend/already attending?

many many birdies said...

I'm so excited for tomorrow. Last week of March Radness. Woooo!

Santhi said...

I'm pretty darned ill right now, so I'm having these weird half-awake, half-asleep dreams...One of them involved a wait-list at Virginia...and then I woke up, and thought hmmm...maybe...and then promptly fell asleep again to dream of there having been a misunderstanding...I was actually just rejected.

This is torture. I just want to be notified of the rejections already, as I've resigned myself to applying again next year.

Rose said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Woon said...

@Rose - Congratulations!

Finally! It's time for the dominos to fall.

Woon said...

@Rose - where are you going? what schools will you turn down?

Laurie Lynn said...

@Michael, re: Oregon

U of O sent out its acceptance and waitlist letters and then the director, who personally signs all the "sorry we can't accept you letters," had a family emergency at the same time that the only staff person in the office had a family emergency. Then it was spring break. Hence the reason for the very long delay in getting the remainder of the letters out. We normally have those letters out within a week of decisions being made. It has nothing to do with being callous or arrogant or disrespectful to applicants waiting to hear and everything to do with several emergencies, an office that is only staffed by one person, and bad timing.

Michele said...

Hi, everyone! Is anyone out there familiar with the program at Mills? So far I've been accepted there and waitlisted at The University of New Orleans, but aside from the Mills professor Yiyun Li, I'm pretty unfamiliar with the program. I'm a first-time applicant, so I'm trying to figure out if I go this year or try to improve my outcomes next year. I know that Mills is expensive and I'm currently awaiting info on financial aid, so while that will be a huge motivator/de-motivator, I thought I'd try to gather some info. in advance to help along my decision-making. Any insights you can share would be greatly appreciated!!

For the record, my list is:

Accepted:
Mills

Waitlisted:
The University of New Orleans

Rejected:
Irvine
Iowa
Oregon State
Texas State
SFSU
Sarah Lawrence

No News:
Columbia
Brooklyn
University of Oregon
UC Riverside
UC Long Beach

Thanks again!

GlobalGothicGirl said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
foe said...

Accepted to University of San Francisco the other day by phone. Poetry. Anyone else? The woman I spoke with said there were ten poets...

Trilbe said...

Hiyo, companions! I can't believe March Radness is actually coming to an end. Remember when we though March 2010 was a million years in the future and would probably never arrive? Ah, we were so young back then... We went through a lot of changes during March, y'allz. Not just acceptances, a lot of our crew also made final decisions. Most notably, Arna, our Class Valedictorian.

LauraT & Lauren are graduating Summa, having been accepted to all of their top choices. Lauren, if I'm not mistaken, you've been accepted everywhere you applied? Right? There are just some questions about funding at a couple of NEOMFA schools?

Rad March Congrats @RachelHurn, MFAGuy, Spencer, JohnDouglas, peripateticmc, xavier, K, perpetua, EmilyWalker, mickey & umIrenic for your recent acceptances!

Special CONGRATULATIONS @Ian & Lucy, our Prom King & Queen! Thanks for being the kind of couple who inspires a little bit of jealousy, but also the hope that someday I will have the opportunity to be the kind of supportive partner that Lucy is being for Ian.

@M.Swann - LMAO! As the kids say... If you fax this remark to your assistant, I'm sure s/he'll explain the term to you.

@LAswede - Welcome back for the finals, adorable! I've missed you.

@Cratty - Looooooovvvvveeee youuuuuoooouuuuuu! ♥

@all - You've been an amazing group to travel with! I hope that when Fall comes and this blog has turned back into desert, we'll all be happy wherever we are.

Trilbe said...

Special shout out @Peaquah & Husband of Peaquah. You guys are really, really nice and it was great meeting you in person! I don't know why, because I have no idea what your name means, but I'd pictured you being very tall and Native American...

honeybadger said...

Hello,

I haven't posted in a while, having been super busy, but I can post my final list here for poetry. No acceptances after my 2 acceptances in February, so it kind of is a crapshoot:

Accepted:
Cornell & Michigan

Waitlisted:
WashU in St. Louis

Rejected:
Syracuse, Iowa, Minnesota, Houston, Texas

Assumed rejection:
Florida, Irvine

No word yet:
Virginia


This is a really really tough decision for me. I'm wavering between Michigan and Cornell, but right now I'm leaning toward Cornell because of the funding. It's so so tough, as Michigan seems to have a larger community and really great, accessible faculty. In no way am I complaining about the situation, but I want to free up a space for a lucky someone as soon as possible. I guess I have two weeks more to decide, but right now I would humbly request advice from this blog...as agh, I'm in a rut...a good rut, I know, but a rut nonetheless. Don't want to take the full two weeks to decide this.

-HB

Trilbe said...

I am also THRILLED to announce that I've been accepted to the University of Texas at El Paso! This one is really shaking me up. It's a bilingual program and it's the only application in which I was courageous enough to send some of my short fiction (in Spanish) along with my poems. I was afraid to put that side of my creative self out there -- I think you guys understand how emotionally challenging it is to open up in these applications -- so now I'm incredibly relieved and honored that the results were positive.

Jasmine Sawers said...

Congrats, Trilbe!

Chelsea said...

@Trilbe

High-five! Sounds like a one of a kind program!

phillywriter said...

Congrats, Trilbe! I think you might be tied with Arna for Class Valedictorian. Or you're our Poetry Valedictorian and Arna's our Fiction Valedictorian.

So, Trilbe, you have a difficult decision to make! Have you narrowed your choices down at all yet?

Congrats again! And congrats to those who've been accepted/waitlisted since I last checked in!

(No news for me - just those two waitlists.... I'm trying to follow Perpetua's advice: Hope, hope, hope, hope, hope!)

Laura said...

@ Trilbe,

You're awesome. <3 Congratulations on Texas! You have so many great options!

Wee Meathead said...

Peeps, I have committed.

I will be at Michigan this fall (fiction), which means a spot is opening up at LSU, and those on the wait-list at Wisconsin and Alabama will be jumping up a spot. Unless i was at the bottom.

Violet_Mai said...

I was accepted at UVA last night for fiction via email. I'm still pinching myself.

Laura said...

@ Wee Meathead and Violet_Mai,
Congratulations!!

phillywriter said...

Congrats on your decision, Wee Meathead! Michigan seems like a fabulous program.

Here's hoping that your decision will let me in off the waitlist at LSU! On behalf of waitlisters everywhere, thanks for deciding so promptly.

Congrats!

Summer said...

@Violet-Mai - Congrats! The gods have dropped that wreath of flowers, eh?

phillywriter said...

Congrats on UVA, Violet_Mai!

Now all 24 of my schools have notified at least one (if not all!) of their acceptances.... Yikes.

the duchess said...

Congrats to those who have made their decisions, gotten off the waitlist (woo hoo umlrenic!!), and gotten 11th-hr acceptances (UVA ppl).

I'm clinging to my one waitlist hope, so may March radness turn into April showers of waitlist acceptances.

lookylookyyonder said...

subscribing

Emily said...

here's a little ditty that seems to suit the mood here .. and it's always a good day for fleetwood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2EaSa5u5CU

Ashley Brooke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Corey Haydu said...

PSU rejection is my least favorite so far. Because they called me "Mr." even though I explicitly use my middle name to denote gender.

Summer said...

@honeybadger - I will employ my immense expertise and knowledge to offer you some advice about your Cornell-Michigan dilemma. Choose Cornell. Why? Because I'm on the waitlist at Michigan!

Seriously though, I think you just need to ask yourself what will make you the happiest badger. Funding, obviously, is no small factor when it comes to writing school, even between two fully-funded programs. But I think you need to choose the one that fits you bespoke. Think of your bent. Cornell seems to offer a better mix of professional opportunities: editorship at Epoch for everyone, summer internships for everyone, and teaching the second year for everyone. This is triplicate work experience that means means you might learn from new experience AND have a better chance at a job out of writing school. On the other hand, you feel really positive about the Michigan community and faculty.

If I were in your place and I felt more at home at Michigan than at Cornell, I would probably choose Michigan. Not easy saying this as the thought of ending up one spot short of acceptance at Michigan on April 15th looms, but I think you should go where you get the most encouragement as a writer.

Juliana Paslay said...

@Coreyann

Silly people! But don't worry, I once got a letter directed to a "mr." and I have an extremely feminine name (Juliana). All I can figure is someone missed the last letter??

lookylookyyonder said...

really subscribing this time.

Woon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Woon said...

@Laurie Lynn - why does Oregon feel the need to send out paper letters and housing packets? They seem wasteful and, in the case of the housing packet, premature and irrelevant (grad students living in dorms? wha...?). A simple email rejection (e.g., Brown) conveys the same message just as effectively, but faster and without killing any trees.

red said...

@phillywriter

All my schools have now notified too... I second your "yikes!"

I hope your waitlist turns into an acceptance!

Kevin said...

Hello everyone,

I'm sorry to ask this again, but I was hoping to gain some perspective on USC's MPW program. Is their reputation low primarily because of the fact that they're not an MFA? Also, do creative writing folks in academia see the MPW as an equivalent to the MFA, or is it looked down on?

Liz said...

Haven't heard from Columbia re: CNF, and given all the acceptances yesterday, I sent them out a note. I'm guessing this means rejection given the prior notifications over the phone, but their office said:

The Faculty have not yet made the final decisions on applications but we hope to have them shortly to be mailed by next week.

inkli__11 said...

re: offers without funding

is anyone who has no money planning on attending a program without funding? (by "no money," i mean that you have zero savings and live month-to-month as is.)

if yes, how do you plan to manage? and how do you justify taking out huge loans?

i feel that it would be most wise for me to wait another year rather than accept an unfunded offer and deal with all the loans, but i really need a life change right now and i want to start school asap before i get any older (okay, so i'm only 24, but still..). i'd like to hear how others are dealing with this situation.

Kendra said...

@ Violet Mai - huge congrats on Virginia, fantastic! Where does that rank for you?

@ Trilbe - Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoyed meeting you, too, and hope for selfish reasons that you end up at Michigan. :-) (She's really, really nice in person, guys!) In case anyone couldn't figure it out from Trilbe's comments, I'm neither tall nor Native American. And I second the notion that Trilbe is our poetry valedictorian - the woman is on fire!

Megan said...

Is anyone else having issues getting notified via snail mail? I live in Paris, and decision letters haven't been arriving at my address. Maybe it's just international mail being its slow, confused self. Anyway, after a few badgering calls to admissions offices, this is where I stand:

-Wisconsin: rejected
-Iowa: rejected
-UC Irvine: rejected via email
-Michigan: letter lost in the mail, assumed rejection
-NYU: still waiting to hear, said decisions are going out soon
-Columbia: still waiting to hear, said decisions are going out soon
-Boston U: still waiting...

So much rejection, so little time. Here's hoping the next few bring better news.

Kyle said...

@ Kevin

I attended USC's MPW straight out of undergrad, concentrating in poetry. At the time, I was unsure about which genre I wanted to pursue, and was able to spend time focusing on screenwriting and creative non-fiction before poetry ultimately won over.

A while back, the program was held in high esteem, but has been troubled recently by an apparent lack of identity and low funding. Also the former director, James Ragan, abandoned the program just a few years ago (right before I went) leaving things in a state of disarray.

However, Ragan's replacement, Brighde Mullins (formerly CalArts' director and creative writing faculty at Harvard), is a fantastic writer, teacher and administrator, and has made it her mission to restore the program. After taking her class in my last semester there, I can say with confidence that I think she is doing a great job and has excellent ideas and a fantastic background. Also, the faculty is top notch (John Rechy, Janet Fitch, Aram Saroyan, Syd Field, Nan Cohen, Amy Gerstler, Sandra Tsing Loh, etc. etc), L.A. presents a thriving artistic environment, and the funding is even coming around, as it's very possible to get a TA position now (or so I've heard).

I think USC's MPW is a bit of a misfit in the MFA world, but also a sort of diamond in the rough, and that it will show itself in time. I had a great experience there and would absolutely recommend it.

And yes, the MPW is generally considered to be an MFA-equivalent, terminal degree.

Best of luck!

Kyle

Unknown said...

Waitlisted by UVA (fiction) via email this morning. Thrilled and shocked! No idea about the length of the waitlist, etc.

Kendra said...

@ Honeybadger - I don't have much information on Cornell, so I'm not sure how it compares to Michigan punch-for-punch. That being said, going into this process I'd thought that I wanted a really small class (say 4-6 people) and Michigan and Iowa were the only two schools I applied to with larger classes. Being on the other side of applications now, I am *so glad* that I'm likely headed to a school with a 12-person incoming class. I think the 4-person class could be amazing, but if you don't happen to jive with the other three people, it could be disastrous.

In one of my former jobs I team-taught ESL with another American - one year that was great because we got along very well. But another year I worked with a different person and it was a huge mess. I guess I would just advise you to think very carefully about Cornell for that reason. It could be amazing, but it could also be a real struggle to work with one or more of the people, and once you've committed you're kind of "stuck" for two (or more) years.

I also thought I'd respond quickly to Summer's comments. Michigan also has summer internships for everyone (if you want them), otherwise it's just plain old fellowship money to write during the summer (for everyone), everyone teaches the second year, and I got the impression you'd be more than welcome to work on MQR if you so desired. There's also a heap of volunteer opportunities at Michigan (some paid, making them not exactly "volunteer") teaching poetry and writing to kids in the Detroit Public Schools or working on tutoring or publishing with 826 Michigan. Just thought I'd throw all of that out there to balance the scales, so to say.

Violet_Mai said...

@Peaquah

This is my second year applying and Virginia has always been one of the programs I wanted to go to the most. I'm still waiting to talk to some students and get more information from the department, but it definitely ranks really high on my list.

Woon said...

@inkli_11 - I personally cannot relate to your situation. However, I really do believe in Lorrie Moore's advice about being a writer. If you remember, her advice went something like this: do something -- anything -- other than being a writer, fail miserably at it, and then be a writer. I don't agree with the "fail" part, because sometimes, that's out of your control. Here's my own modified version of Moore's advice: do something -- anything -- other than being a writer and gain some experience/money. When you reach 30 (or so), if you still want to be a writer, either write or apply to MFA programs. This advice is drawn from personal experience.

threes said...

Anyone go to GMU's open house and have thoughts to share?

Perpetua said...
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Perpetua said...

Megan I'm having the same problem although some schools have made an exception for me.

threes said...
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many many birdies said...

@ inkli11

If you need a life change, what about signing up for some writing classes, without matriculating into a program, and really devoting yourself to applying for next year? You could also spend the year really pursuing getting more of your work published, as that can help one to feel like they're moving forward in their career. Sometimes having something else to focus on can help, even if it's not as good as leaving your job & starting an MFA. This is what I did last year, and taking classes and focusing all my attention on my apps made the year seem bearable.

I am considering going to an unfunded program despite being poor, but I think my situation might be a little unique. First of all, I'm considering a program where I have in-state tuition - so tuition is pretty low. Secondly, I already have two jobs that I like. Thirdly, the program has made it clear that I should be able to get some funding next year, and there are lots of partial-funding grants in the program that have yet to be awarded that I can apply for. I'm considering going to this program part-time and keeping one of my two jobs. Because the tuition is so low, even though things would be tight, I can matriculate without taking out loans.

I think it is possible to go to accept an unfunded offer and not go into horrible debt, depending on the program and one's personal situation, but if you crunch your numbers and realize it's not possible for you, then be wary of going into debt because you're ready for a change. There are other ways to further your writing career this year, and waiting one year to enter an MFA program isn't that long in the grand scheme of things.

Seth Abramson said...

@honeybadger

As a general rule of thumb, many of these decisions can be made on the basis of one of the most important program traits: duration. (I don't say location, because frankly so many of these programs are in wonderful locations -- both Ann Arbor and Ithaca are spectacular college towns). Cornell offers most if not all grads a third-year lectureship -- and some small few may even get a fourth-year lectureship. True, Michigan has the post-grad fellowships but they are slightly less certain. Generally speaking, Cornell has to be seen as the "longer" program. Rankings-wise I wouldn't see a substantial difference -- Michigan at #3, Cornell at #10, but that Cornell is an Ivy does, in fact, carry some weight for one's future, particularly if one can go out into the job market saying that one has been a Lecturer at an Ivy (which would be true). Michigan is a larger program, true, but I'll also say that in recent years student satisfaction has been strong but not perfect. Cornell I've heard no complaints about whatsoever. I think Fulton is also a particularly interesting person to work with as the individual who coined the term (and the aesthetic) "fractal poetics." Plus they've had two strong poetry hires in just the last two years -- their faculty is much younger now, not to mention that their student-to-faculty ratio is superlative. And the size of their community needs to be augmented by any/all individuals doing third- or fourth-year lectureships on campus (Michigan's post-grad fellowships are, I believe, "take-aways," so those folks may well have left Ann Arbor). So we could say that there are 44 total people in the UM student community (across two genres and two years of study), but we'd then say that there are 24 people in the Cornell community (across two genres and three years), plus perhaps two to four other lecturers. 44 versus 26-28 isn't such a big difference, I don't think, that it should seal the deal one way or another -- especially if the level of satisfaction amongst those 44 is felt to be slightly lower than amongst those 26-28. That Cornell's acceptance rate is half that of Michigan's -- albeit both are obscenely low -- should serve to confirm that you're going to find a ridiculously strong cohort in either place, whatever the overall rankings say.

My two cents.

Best,
S.

Perpetua said...

Megan, I apologise for only half an explanation - what I meant to say is that some schools have made an exception by emailing me thier decisions no matter what they were - I am actually not feeling very present today.

e/m said...

I got into New School today via mail. (would be transferring)

Seth Abramson said...

Ink,

Not to sound like a fogey, but: You're 24. Your entire life is ahead of you. Heck, you've got three years before you're even the average age of an incoming MFA student. That's plenty of time to make sure you attend a program where you're properly respected as the terminal-degree student you aim to be -- as in the United States, terminal degree candidates have always been fully funded. Except poets and writers -- which is bullshit, and which is why we're demanding, now, that that be changed. And we're demanding it with our votes -- our votes on where we apply, and our "votes" on where we ultimately decide to attend. Ask any of your friends attending a doctoral program whether they'd even consider attending such a program unfunded. Well, we may be poets and writers -- not physicists -- but dammit, we deserve the same respect and professional courtesy, funding-wise, as our peers in doctoral programs in Sociology, English Literature, Italian, Economics, Psychology, &c &c.

We can't get the respect we deserve -- as writers, as poets, as students, as artists -- unless we demand it. You are very young (I mean this as a compliment). If you have patience and continue to work hard at your art you will get into a fully-funded program.

Best,
Seth

Kendra said...

Just got off the phone with Eileen Pollack - I've formally accepted my Michigan offer in fiction!

@ Wee Meathead, we're gonna be Wolverines!

Unfortunately, I was a bit of a one-shot wonder, and am not opening up any waitlist spots that I know of - I wish I *was* only to help out some of you still in limbo.

Also, I think it's probably time for me to say my good-byes on the blog, as the Michigan visit this last weekend has motivated me to get back to writing in a serious way. I was a little late to the game, but I have so enjoyed being a part of this community. I've gotten to correspond and/or meet with a couple of people: klairkwilty, Nadiya, Trilbe, Kaybay, Emma, Courtney, and Wee Meathead (to name a few) and I hope we're able to stay in touch wherever we all end up. If anyone would like to correspond further my real-life name is Kendra Langford Shaw, and my email is kendra (dot) shaw (at) gmail.com. I feel perhaps now is the most non-arrogant time to say that one of the stories I submitted in applications is going to be in StoryQuarterly sometime soon - it's called "The Walrus and the Tub" and I had to send them an audio recording of myself reading it (ha!) which will be up online for free whenever the magazine is printed. So if you want to hear how non-Native American I really am (read: high and squeaky voice) you can check that out.

I look forward to reading about everyone else's valleys and peaks as this cycle winds down. I know you're all amazing writers, and Chris's post on DH last night (search it out if you haven't yet read it) sums it up well - for each qualified writer who gets into a program, there's an equally qualified writer accidentally overlooked. After meeting other Michigan students this weekend I feel I can safely speak on their behalf to say that it's completely surreal for us - we never expected anything like this, and we feel very humbled and honored. The general feeling is, "really, they want *me*?" not "oh yeah, I'm amazing and deserve this." I *know* there are many of you out there who could write circles around me, and from the bottom of my heart I wish you the very best as you move forward wherever you're going - a new job, a new state, a new school.

Kendra said...

P.S. Violet Mai - so excited for you!

Violet_Mai said...

@Seth

"In recent years student satisfaction [at Michigan] has been strong but not perfect. Cornell I've heard no complaints about whatsoever."

I'm sorry if you've addresed this before, but I'm curious if you have a general anecdotal sense of which of the top programs seem to have the happiest campers? And which programs you hear some disssatisfaction from?

many many birdies said...

@ Peaquah: YAAAY! Huge congratulations!!!

@ Seth: I have lots of friends in PhD programs who are not funded, especially in education. I thought it was mostly only the terminal science degrees that were always fully-funded.

kaybay said...

Peaquah, as I sit here on my spring break, checking the blog I said I would stay away from :P, I want to say how wonderful, encouraging, humble, and just darn sweet you have been. I'm going to miss you!! But honestly, seeing the people accepted to Michigan and hearing the positives coming from the program, I hope to get over my brother's anti-Ann Arbor/UM sentiments and apply there next year. I might be emailing you in the future to see how it's going. You'll be missed! Love ya!

Violet_Mai said...

@Peaquah

Thanks!
And huge congrats on accepting the offer from Michigan and completing this whole application process!

kaybay said...

Oh, and I can't wait to read your story! StoryQuarterly, wow, kudos!

Kendra said...

P.P.S. @ honeybadger - Seth's also right in that there's a difference in rankings and reputation for fiction and poetry. I can't imagine a better place for fiction writers, but I think Michigan isn't quite *as* strong in poetry.

Kendra said...

@ kaybay - please *do* email me, I would love to stay in touch!

L. Lewis said...

Dumb question time: What does fully funded mean?

Does it mean you don't have to pay a cent for tuition and you have enough funding left over to live off? Or just that your tuition is taken care of?

Unknown said...

Hey Seth,

Two things:

1. Michigan's post-grad fellowships are actually, for the most part, "stay-in-Ann-Arbor" fellowships. Only one (of 7 or 8 total) allows the recipient to leave Ann Arbor.

2. I'm in a semi-similar situation to @honeybadger: choosing between Michigan and UVA (in poetry). Any wise words on that front? I'd assume the Cornell logic doesn't quite apply, but that UVA may have its own plusses to consider...

Thanks,

R.

Violet_Mai said...
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Emma said...

@ Peaquah --

congratulations! I love your work and wish you the greatest luck imaginable.

- (the other emma)

Unknown said...

Oh, and perhaps it bears mentioning that I'm also considering UMass Amherst, because of the longer duration (and additional small press/other arts-related opportunities). But I think the differences (in funding, mainly) are pretty clear between UMass and the other two schools.

Thanks!

inkli__11 said...

thanks everyone for your sound advice. i think i will end up waiting another year if no funding becomes available to me.

in the meantime, i shall continue honing my craft and forge ahead through my quarter-life crisis without the irresistible cushion of an mfa program.

M. M. said...

Accepted to Bennington for poetry via phone about an hour ago. Still waiting for: New School, NYU, and Columbia. Their sloth is currently the bane of my existence. Have to make a decision in a week. Also accepted to Sarah Lawrence.

Jasmine Sawers said...

Congrats Violet_Mai!

M. M. said...
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Courtney said...
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Summer said...

@Peaquah - Thanks for filling in Michigan's specific info re:internships, etc. I have actually held off on thinking about the specific riches that Michigan offers because I don't want to be reminded, of this point, of what I might barely miss. This will certainly be a help to honeybadger.

Good luck on your writing and, as they say, thanks for all the fish.

Kendra said...

@ Summer - for what it's worth, the program seemed very aware (to me, at least) that there were loads of talented writers out there just on the cusp of acceptance. Here's hoping you make it off the waitlist! Do you know where you are on it?

And seriously, what is wrong with me? I say my good-byes and then post more than I have in the past two weeks combined. Sheesh.

Laura said...
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Laura said...

I was hoping soooo much to get a merit aid letter from Emerson today. If it was mailed on Friday like they said it would be, then it should arrive here soon because I live so close to Boston. *sigh* This is my last bit of news from all my programs and a major decision-maker. Merit aid letter, please arrive tomorrow!

Courtney said...

@ Seth

Seth, I was wondering if you could weigh in on my programs. I applied to programs in CNF and I happen to live in New York City. Here is my list:

Accepted
Univ of San Fran-no funding
Saint Mary's-no funding
Bath Spa University-no funding
Columbia-no funding
Sarah Lawrence- 12k in financial aid

Waitlisted
George Mason ("very high")
UNCW

Have not heard from, but presume rejections:
Hollins
Rutgers
*5 official rejections (Iowa, TNS, Hunter, UNH and Univ of Arizona)

My first question is, of these schools, where would you pick? Something to consider is that if I go to either Columbia or Sarah Lawrence, I have an option to live somewhere w/out paying rent. (I'm pretty sure I know where you stand on Columbia.) My second question is what if I got off the waitlist at either UNCW or George Mason...does that change which program you would choose?

Obviously I know all of this is subjective and it depends on where I think I will grow the most as a writer. Personally, I have been debating between SLC or Columbia and my gut says SLC. If I think about prestige and making contacts (really intangibles), I think, howww can I give up Columbia? Then of course, I think about the crippling amounts of loans I will have to take out, and I wonder if it's worth the theoretical "pay off."

I also can't stop thinking about this one last thing...I have spoken to at least one person on the phone at each school where I was accepted and, unfortunately, I was the least jazzed about the program at Sarah Lawrence after getting off the phone with the person with whom I was speaking. How much should that weigh into my decision? Every other school seemed very interested to talk to me about my writing, learn more about me (esp. the program director at Saint Mary’s who was a delight), and promote their program, but for whatever reason, it wasn’t that way with SLC. Am I reading too much into this?

Seth, I’d love to hear your thoughts and your opinion. Also, for the record, all along I have thought that Sarah Lawrence might be the best fit for me. I’m going to the open house next week, which I'm sure will give me a better insight.

If anyone else cares to weigh in, I would love to hear your opinion as well. Thanks so much!

-nonfiction Courtney

Nadiya said...

Hi everyone. I'd just like you all to know that I've accepted Iowa's offer and have turned down my spot for Fiction in Michigan. I sent out both emails five minutes ago...and I really really hope one of you here gets offered a Michigan spot right away. To paraphrase someone, Iowa's the mafia - and they made me an offer I couldn't refuse. :-) Seriously though, they've been awfully nice, both Sam and Connie, and I think I've made the right choice. They've done their best to assuage all the practical concerns I'd had about moving to the US - and I really appreciate that.

@Peaquah - got your lovely email and I will be talking to you soon! So what if we're in different programs!

@Arna and Seth: Thank you for the input you gave during my deliberations. Please know how valuable it was in guiding me towards making this choice.

Wishing the best for all of you!!

Laura said...

@ Courtney,

I have had great experiences with everyone I've talked to at Sarah Lawrence. I've talked to a couple of students and an alum, and they all loved the program, answered all my questions in detail, and were encouraging and very very nice. Maybe you just happened to speak to someone who wasn't as enthused -- I would suggest trying to talk to other students and faculty if possible!

Financially, SLC looks like a much better option than Columbia, especially if you got a $12,000 scholarship (that is a lot for SLC because they don't give out much gift aid!). That would knock SLC's first-year tuition down to around $15,000 and, since the second year is half the cost of the first year, it brings the second-year tuition down to only $1,000! Even if you have to take out a $16,000 loan to make up that difference, it's much better than the $100,000 loans that many people from Columbia take on.

I would say that thinking about faculty and connections, you can't go wrong with either SLC or Columbia. Sarah Lawrence is also a smaller program, I think with more one-on-one attention (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know a lot about Columbia). But I know that at SLC you get biweekly individual conferences with faculty members, and everyone I've talked to says that the faculty do take a personal interest in their students' work.

roughdraft said...

Does anyone know how long the New School waitlist is?

Courtney said...

@ Laura T

Thanks for your opinion. I happen to agree with you on all of your points. I have only heard great things about SLC and I have a few workshop instructors who think I would LOVE it there. I'm trying not to read too much into the phone conversation, but it was just, disappointing I guess...I had been so excited about SLC. Maybe it was bad timing. I do, however, remember getting my acceptance to Sarah Lawrence and I was literally jumping up and down and screaming with excitement (and there may have been some tears). I think my focus should be in that moment because my gut reaction was not nearly as authentic when I got into the other schools. Anyway, thanks again for the info and for letting me know your thoughts.

kbtoys said...

I've emailed regarding the TNS wait list and have received no response. Wish I had a better idea of my chances for getting off that thing!

Corey Haydu said...

ANOTHER empty mail day.

TNS and Columbia are making me lose my mind.

kbtoys said...

Also, to jump in on this Sarah Lawrence conversation, does anyone know where most of the MFA students live?

Unknown said...

Anyone have any information they would like to share about either UC-Davis or Temple U (my 2 acceptances)? Davis's funding appears to have been hit by the CA budget crisis, anyone know if this is true of Irvine too?

MFAguy said...

Congrats to all new acceptances!

I had a general question for posters: anybody know much about Blacksburg, VA? Particularly places to live or not to live? (scummy apt complexes etc.) Or anything else pertinent about the town I should know about?

Best!

SarahMarian said...

Yes, I would loooove to know more about Sarah Lawrence logistically. Do people commute via train? and if so, how many days a week are they heading up there? maybe this is stuff the accepted people who go to the open house will know better, but I'm very curious.

Seth Abramson said...

Hi Courtney,

It's definitely tougher for you non-fiction folks, funding-wise -- there are far fewer fully-funded options, perhaps even few enough that saying "wait for a funded offer" is problematic. How can one ask an applicant to direct themselves, year after year, to only four or five programs? (That said, there does seem to be a new trend of lesser-known programs in CNF starting to take off because, whether or not they have a formal CNF track [though some do] they offer many CNF courses and have full funding: witness the programs showing up in the CNF rankings for the first time, or creeping from the sub-list to the list proper, e.g. FAU, Alaska-Fairbanks, Boise State, Iowa State, Kansas, UNO, Idaho, ODU, ASU, Vandy, Houston, Colorado, GCSU, OSU, Alabama, Wyoming). For the moment, though, the top 15 in CNF (which would be the equivalent of the top 40 for poetry and fiction) is dominated by programs where many/most won't or can't get full funding. So those who aren't willing to wait a few years to attend an MFA, i.e. until the programs above break through more fully, and who are intent on attending a top-40-equivalent program, are really looking at Minnesota, Penn State, Notre Dame, and Iowa, and then keeping fingers crossed at the few other places where funding is as least theoretically possible). So that's the context.

The fact that you can go to school in NYC without paying rent is huge, and SLC's funding is certainly non-zero in this instance -- it does change the game somewhat. I also think that "gut" plays a big part here; I often tell applicants that you should never make a decision which will have you wondering the rest of your life about the decision you didn't make. E.g., ask yourself, if I go to SLC will I always wonder what Columbia would have been like? Or, if I go to Columbia, will I always wonder about SLC? Certain schools capture our imagination, and there's certainly a value to that. Is that value $125,000? Well -- no, probably not.

It seems that SLC substantially enough captures your imagination that you could justify going, because it's both a gut instinct and also has some financial savvy behind it. Should you consider GMU or UNCW if they'll fully fund? Sure, yes -- these are top 10 programs, and I have never bought into the idea that just going to school in NYC magically produces an agent and a book contract. No. The work produces that, and if the work is good it will find that in time. The whole one-dinner-party-that-changes-my-life-forever theory should be viewed as a perpetual ad campaign being put on by the NYC Chamber of Commerce (or "Department of Culture," if they had one). It happens so rarely as to not be worth consideration. So: I'd do a calculation for how much each program will cost you (as even funded offers at GMU and UNCW could result in your needing a small amount of loans to "top off" any award), and then try to -- if such a thing is possible -- put a dollar value on not having any doubts or regrets about where you attend (as I haven't heard you saying anything yet about UNCW or GMU grabbing your imagination, though perhaps it's because you haven't heard from them yet beyond the wait-list letter!). SLC will cost much more than a fully-funded program, so then you'll face the tough task of "quantifying" your gut instinct. I think we can safely say one's gut instinct isn't worth $125,000. But it's probably worth more than $10,000. See what I mean?

{cont.}

Seth Abramson said...

As to judging a program from one phone call -- no, I wouldn't do that. Too small a sample-size. You could have a call with SLC tomorrow, with a different person (on a different day), or with the same person on a different day, and it might go beautifully -- better than any phone call you've ever made/received in your life. "Gut instinct" is an educated guess you make with your heart -- but it's still an educated guess, based on more than a moment's worth of perception. Otherwise we'd call it whim, fancy, &c &c...

Best of luck,
Seth

Andrea said...

@ Michael

I've only lived in Bham for a few years- I did my undergrad in my home state of Arizona. Also, I found out last week that I won't be making it off the funding waitlist at Idaho, which means I have to cross it off the list. It was my first choice- to put it lightly, this sucks!

If you end up there, good luck, I hope it's wonderful!

Seth Abramson said...

Ruth,

Thanks for that clarification -- I suppose one could still make a percentage-of-class distinction, however, i.e. saying that one has a better statistical chance of a third year at Cornell than Michigan, though both programs are still exceedingly generous in this regard. I'm sure we can all agree honeybadger's choice is an enviable one! You can't go wrong with either of those programs.

As to Michigan versus Virginia, well... I'll be honest and say that I've always worried about the possibility of a conservative aesthetic being dominant at Virginia. I know some UVA folks have told me it isn't so, but the last poet I knew who went to UVA was a High Modernist -- so, hmm. Certainly the poetry of Michigan's faculty is more eclectic and exciting; Dove and Wright are exceptional poets who helped to shape the dominant national aesthetic in the 1980s, which aesthetic is now seen as tremendously retrograde. I can't say I'm an avid reader of either poet, though I respect their skills in what they do tremendously. Michigan seems more intent on pushing the envelope with their hires, though, and that tells me something. In the same way Houston hiring Manning and Mlinko tells me something -- and JHU hiring Salter and Leithauser tells me... well... a different thing. All these poets are tremendously talented, but they're also more (or as the case may be, less) reflective of where contemporary American poetry is headed. Leithauser is a New Formalist -- so, make your own judgments there, is all I mean. On this note, Virginia's decision to let folks know so late is reflective of a certain attitude I know also exists at JHU -- we're Virginia, we do what we do and if you don't like it, flake off. It's not an ear-to-the-ground mentality, and I worry that reflects some of the aesthetic and even internal-cultural bent of the program. Michigan, in contrast... when I was accepted in 2007 they were as sweet and accessible as could be, and their aggressive hiring since then, and their constant striving for more funding for students, well, that tells me the culture there is likely dynamic. Disclosure: I was a top pick at Michigan (so they said) in 2007, and I was rejected by Virginia outright. But I can only ask you to believe me when I say that, for myself, I had absolutely no intention of attending Virginia instead of Michigan had I gotten into both. For many reasons, only some of which are itemized above.

To me, it'd be Michigan (and size of community does play some role, though as I said to the OP we have to be careful about how big a role it plays). I like the location and faculty at Michigan better, and the funding package, and the atmosphere, and the aesthetic, and the reputation. Guess that sums it up!

Best of luck (I'm sure you'd love either place in the end),

Seth
P.S. Not for nothing -- always be cautious of celebrity faculty. They may not be nearly as accessible or accommodating or supportive as you'd need or want. Sometimes they're a little like absentee landlords who are really, really nice and friendly and helpful -- when they're around. And Rita Dove is without question a "celebrity" as much as she is a poet. I mention this because of course teaching skill can't be judged by aesthetic, so what I said above about Wright and Dove's aesthetics is probably less relevant than the concern about Dove's celebrity.

phillywriter said...

Has anyone been accepted off the LSU Fiction waitlist today? All day I've been holding out hope for Wee Meathead's spot - and I'd like to be able to temper my hopes if one of you has already heard. Please let me know!

Kevin said...

@Kyle

Thanks for that info!

I really want to stay in SoCal, preferably LA area, and there aren't much options here. I really did like what I saw of USC's MPW program about two years ago when I started looking into MFA programs.

Are you applying to an MFA program as well? If so, why (considering you have an MPW already)?

Seth Abramson said...

Megan,

That's tragic (re: the friends of yours you mentioned) -- I can only tell you that in every doctoral field I've looked at, fully-funded acceptances are the norm. Certainly in English Lit anyone who is part of an online community of applicants is not going to accept an unfunded offer, or else will view doing so as such a swallowing of pride it may well ultimately damage their in-program morale (that sort of bitterness has a way of metasticizing). I think those who do go to doctoral programs unfunded would be mostly those not plugged into what people are saying about what applicants have a right to expect. All my friends in education Ph.D. programs are fully-funded, but then again they go to schools with large research endowments. So I'm sure there are exceptions, perhaps even many -- but the national doctoral culture, as a monolithic series of pieces of conventional wisdom about terminal degrees in non-professional fields (i.e., not law, medicine, engineering, or business) is that you get full funding or you don't attend.

Be well,
S.

Woon said...

I'm not ashamed to admit I've never heard of Rita Dove until today, but I'm not a poet. The last poem I read was, I believe, "The Highwayman" back in high school.

The highwayman came riding, riding, riding...

Violet_Mai said...

@Seth

Any thoughts on JHU vs UVA vs Vanderbilt for fiction? So far, my interactions with the Vandy faculty have been really wonderful; I have some reservations about the vibe at JHU; and I just got into UVA so I don't really have much of a sense of things there yet. Any thoughts you'd like to share would be really helpful.

LAswede said...

thank you trilbe (sorry no comment sooner! taught four classes back to back today, so i'm fried!)...keep killing em girl!!!

Seth Abramson said...

Violet,

That'd be a long convo -- but I'll say that over the years there's been much talk of dissatisfaction with Oregon, WUSTL, Columbia, Florida State, increasingly UMass, and many others. Mind you, this is anecdotal -- a handful of bad experiences can really change public perception if those experiences are disseminated or spoken of (even in general terms) publicly. I've come across a lot of happy campers from Montana, Colorado State, Brown, Cornell, many others. Mixed reports from Texas, Indiana, Houston, Iowa, Michigan, many others. But the reasons are very diverse: some folks bemoan Iowa's lack of structure and some love it; some bemoan Houston's heavy teaching load and some love it; some dislike Indiana's particular take on multi-cultural writing and others love it; some disliked Texas's lack of permanent faculty and joint MA/MFA courses and some simply appreciated those who were present at the time (both faculty and students); the poetry folks at Oregon were unhappy but the fiction folks seemed not to be; those very sensitive to large program size either like that or don't like that about Florida State. Ultimately, my feeling has always been that we ought to judge programs by a) their immutables, and b) what we know about what we prefer -- not what we've heard about what other people prefer. Is it good to know if a particular professor is a jerk? Well, yes... but in a sense that's really (if enough people say it) an immutable, not a "pick 'em" type situation.

Best,
S.

MFQ said...

@Violet Mai--congrats!

@MFA Guy--I checked with my girlfriend who went to VT for undergrad and visits the campus often. She said if you're looking for peace and quiet and can get together other grad students, renting a house would be a good way to go. There may be nice new grad housing in a campus area called West End, and newer complexes on Patrick Henry Dr. There are lots of nice buildings not listed on the VT housing page, so a visit is a good bet and will help determine the scummy quotient of any potential digs.

Violet_Mai said...

@Seth

Also, apologies for asking you so many questions today! You're doing such an amazing job responding to everybody. I know we are all really grateful to have you here to offer your insight.

Seth Abramson said...

@all

I'm getting enough private queries about this that I thought I'd just post a quick, final note on this: if you'd like to donate to TSE you can do so at the "Make a Payment" link here. It takes you to a secure PayPal site. This is only if you're inclined to do so -- needless to say no one ought to feel in any way obligated. I love this community and my primary motivation for doing this has never been money. I'm very, very happy to read about everyone's successes!

S.

Woon said...

@Seth, others - Also, you can't discount the unpredictable nature of life itself. The things that you think will bother you, may not matter once you get there. And the things you never thought would matter, may gnaw at you on a daily basis. You change, the scenery changes. The way you "click" with a professor or your cohorts results from an odd combination of time, circumstance, mood, and, the price of apples in Bangladesh; that is to say, chemistry is a mysterious thing.

I hope this was helpful. ;-)

Heheh...

Amanda said...

@threes,

I managed to catch the readings on Friday at GMU's open house. I can't say I have particularly strong feelings for the program after visiting--but this could be because I missed the events on the previous days where apparently everyone got to know each other . . . the best part of my trip was visiting with Kyoko Mori--she's amazing and I'd love to work with her.
But I didn't really like Fairfax (too suburban), and the program seems too big for me (the director didn't recognize my name when I introduced myself, which really isn't that heinous, but as an accepted student and TA candidate--meaning we had an hour long phone conversation recently-- I was sort of surprised. Seems like they admitted too many students to keep track of, which doesn't bode well for me.)

I'd love to hear your impressions, especially if you were able to visit any classes on Wed. or Thurs., or if you sat in on the Q&A session with current students.

Woon said...

re. readings.

I loathe them. Haven't heard a good reading from any famous (or not-so-famous) writer...EVER. And I myself can't orally interpret my own work to save my life.

(That's not to say I won't be a good MFA student.)

Emily said...

@phillywriter

Have you asked LSU where you are on the list? I'm on the list too; when I bit I learned there are about 30 of us (I am "toward the middle") for 3 ("possibly four") spots. If you're close to the top and have a reasonable shot, maybe they'll be more specific with you?

Em

Woon said...

It's 1:21 PM. Time for my 4-mile run and then lunch at Boston Market.

phillywriter said...

@Emily

No, I haven't contacted them, other than to send an e-mail saying I was really interested in the program. Whom did you call or e-mail?

30 people. Ouch. But I'd rather know where I stand than have false hope.

Kyle said...

@ Kevin

I am applying to an MFA program, but the reason for this is that I started focusing on poetry late, relative to both my life and the time I spent in the MPW program. I only concentrated on it in the final semester of my time there. I feel that additional exposure to a tight knit community of writers would do me good and allow me to stretch my legs a bit as a poet. This decision is no reflection on USC, nor the usefulness of the degree.

Hope this helps!

About said...

James Franco lovers, enjoy! Link to his short story in Esquire included in this not-so-glowing review:

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/james_franco/index.html?story=/mwt/broadsheet/2010/03/29/james_franco_crush_ends_now

lookylookyyonder said...

i was at the events on friday, and i came away with a pretty good impression. fairfax sucks, but i talked to at least five or six students with ta-ships who live in dc or arlington and say it's perfectly doable. all the students i talked to seemed very happy with the program. it is a large program, but personally i think i prefer that.

while we're on the subject: seth, what's your sense of gmu's poetry program? at the moment anyway it looks to be ranked quite a bit higher than the program as a whole, and i was wondering why that might be. i have my own ideas, but i'd be curious to hear your take (if you have one).

Woon said...

It's tough to be James Franco.

About said...

@ Coreyann

I was addressed as Ms. in my PSU letter even though I explicitly use Arthur as my middle name to ensure people know I am a man. Irking!

Emily said...

@philly

I wrote Jim Wilcox, the director. He responded very quickly. I thought 30 was cuhhraisy too, but he also said they usually go pretty far into the wait list. I have a hard time imagining they will have to dig too deep this year, though.

Whatever happens, good luck to you.

la said...

@Seth

A follow up regarding something you mentioned in the Michigan / Cornell discussion. Does Ivy league name still trump Iowa or Michener (for example) down the line?

Jaaaa-young teachuh said...

@Violet- How to turn down Vandy?!? :)

Emily said...

@woon

Of readings I've seen in the past year or two, Kenneth Goldsmith and Ron Carlson were standouts. Richard Ford's voice is a thing of beauty. Robert Pinsky and Rita Dove may be celebrities, but they also know how to command a room. Deborah Eisenberg knows what she's doing. Lorrie Moore was not bad when I saw her.

Ashley Brooke said...

I was notified today that I did not receive an assistantship at Texas State. It was expected but is still disappointing. I am considering attending anyway, though, as tuition is moderately affordable. blahhh.
I hate having to make a decision so soon, though, as I'm unsure where I stand with my waitlist at Kansas. Hopefully I'll know by April 15th...

Coughka said...

If I were James Franco (and not an old man, haha), I'd wonder about publishing in a magazine of Esquire heights (maybe depths is better). With my cohorts struggling to just get published in the first place, in far smaller journals, would it come across as arrogant? Nepotistic? Unearned? Bat-shit crazy? Would I remember I was the guy in Spider-Man 3 who said the pie was so good? And that I am currently a recurring character on a daytime soap? I might remember these things. And I might not care:

The building is beige, but the shadows make it shadow-color.

--James Franco

MFAguy said...

@Ashley, hope you get into Kansas. Lawrence is an amazing town!

Chelsea said...

@M.Swann

bahahahahahahahaha

I truly enjoyed your carefully considered excerpt of Franco's s/s

and, of course, your witticism.

MFAguy said...

@Matt, thanks, for the info. I will do some internet surfing, then in the summer a visit.

WreckingLight said...

Quick response about SLC students and where they live. Even though I'm Irish (and still live in Ireland), I have very close links with SLC for various reasons, and know some of the faculty (visiting and otherwise), as well as a number of alumni (I used to use SLC's library at the weekends while in residency in New York). I've been accepted before (poetry), but the funding is abysmal, although I do love the college (and its high proportion of females, for I believe Irish accents can work no matter the sexual proclivities of SLC's students).

The alumni I know lived in Bronxville itself (in town), Tarrytown, Sleepy Hollow, and New York City. The Metro North takes you right to Bronxville (and it's a 20-minute walk up what funnily looks like earthquake-wrecked pavement to Sarah Lawrence) - it's a pleasant little town, unfortunately bordered by Yonkers...(which may be a lot cheaper to rent in, but will DESTROY YOUR SOUL AND EAT YOUR FACE).

Nadiya said...

Btw: I know Arna's accepted Iowa. Who else is going there for sure?

Seth Abramson said...

It's not Franco's fault -- it's the fault of the MFA program that accepted him for study over hundreds of more qualified candidates, thereby implicitly communicating to him that he had what it took to publish in this genre.

Hmm... can't remember which program it was... that admitted him simply to burnish their own name?

Not sure what kind of self-respecting program would d--

--Oh. That's right.

;-)

S.

Coughka said...

Quiet, Seth! It's the only program that's accepted me so far! ;-P

pdg said...

Did anyone apply to Georgia State University? If so, have you heard anything?

Seth Abramson said...

Ms. P.,

To say something "trumps" something else is to make two presumptions, neither of which is correct in this instance: a) that the something in question is determinative, and b) that all other factors are a wash. An Ivy League name is one factor among dozens that could reasonably be used to assess what a program can offer a poet or writer -- "all things being equal" we might say that that fact alone, "all [other] things being equal," would push Cornell or Brown ahead of other such presumptively-equal programs. But all other things are not equal, and certainly not as between/amongst the four programs you're speaking of: University of Texas-Austin, Brown University, Cornell University, and University of Iowa. I don't think four programs could be more different, and there two public schools you've mentioned are particularly singular in their construction and reputation: Iowa is the largest fully-funded program in the country, with the longest history of any MFA program and the most august graduate placement and publication record of the last fifty years; Texas is the only fully-funded program in the country that requires absolutely no teaching, and offers more money per student -- by far -- than any other MFA in the United States. To say that Brown or Cornell could, without much consideration of many other factors, "trump" Iowa or Texas purely on the basis of the Ivy League pedigree factor (one factor among dozens) would not be wise.

Be well,
S.

About said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Emily said...

@MFAguy

I have spent some time in B-burg - housing is cheap, everyone I knew (grad students) rented houses. I don't know much about the bar scene, but there is a vibrant food/farming community, lotta oldtime music happening near bonfires, and plenty of brainy-but-easygoing types around. An earthy, inexpensive little place with plenty of natural beauty.

rae said...

thank god i am not the only person who felt nauseous from franco's fiction.

Zoulou said...

Congratulations @Nadiya and Peaquah and Wee Meathead, on choosing! So exciting... such great programs; I wish you guys all lots and lots of luck! And Peaquah, I'll definitely be on the lookout for that story of yours.

And congrats @Violet Mai and Micaela, UVA and Bennington!

Here's wishing lots of luck for all you waitlisters - crazy time, here's where it all starts happening :)

Lake said...

@pdg I applied to Georgia State and haven't heard a peep. A couple of PhD responses have been posted on gradcafe, but I haven't heard of any MFA responses. I really wish they would tell me, one way or the other!

And I'm not even sure who to e-mail/call to try to figure it out since so many of the application pieces went to different places.

glad walla said...

Has anybody communicated with Arkansas yet? I know they accepted some people in February, but I haven't heard a peep since. I have some good offers that are badly funded and Arkansas is the last school standing on my list—aside from a very low ND waitlist spot—that might have funding available.

I'll probably end up waiting until April 1 and e-mailing the director, like the website says, but one of my acceptances (my favorite) does not hew to the April 15 rule and that makes me nervous.

Zoulou said...

Hey everybody. Just wanted to share... I had some major panic today about teaching classes come fall. I signed up for an English class at the local college, you know, to prepare, and today was the first day - the professor asked us to go around the room and say why we were in that class, and I had this total panic moment, thinking, "oh my god, because I'm going to be YOU soon!" You know, standing up in front of the class, teaching English... yikes. Ha - anybody else had this little freak-out moment?

Another thing I'd like to share: I haven't taken an English class since high school. Is this a problem? It feels a little weird that I'm going to be teaching college English... haha, seriously you guys, I might just go breathe into a paper bag.

I know TA-ships, when they come, are a blessing and something to be so thankful for, but oh goodness, anybody else freaking out about this right about now? Any suggestions? I mean, I reckon I ought to spend the summer preparing to start teaching - anybody have prep plans that they'd like to share?

All right - good luck everybody! Hope you all are having a really chill, happy day.

Cratty said...

I wasn't going to comment on Sir Franco, but after I linked to an EW review of his story, I found a couple lines that explains exactly how I feel, so I thought I'd share.
"As the editor of one of America’s least-prominent literary magazines for the past ten years . . . I can say this with some contextual certainty: James Franco’s short story in Esquire is slightly above average, nothing special. But it must be really handy to be famous."

What resonated with me most, tho, from said reviewer is this bit:
"Do I think James Franco has potential as a short story writer? I do. But there’s a particular affliction that affects especially the male authors of short fiction, a need to dirty everyone up, to make their characters just a little sicker and more slovenly and less redeemable than the societal average. Some would call this “walking the longest mile.” I just think it’s kinda lazy, means you feel the need to be graphic in order to get attention in workshop instead of just writing well about interesting things. . . .
"Just Before the Black" has an appropriately ambiguous ending. (Ambiguous endings are big in short fiction land.) I’ve read thousands of pieces with the same tone, style, point of view, and (believe it or not) general subject matter. I’m not sure I would have accepted this one. I felt nothing while reading, from beginning to end. You might."

Man, I couldn't agree more. The writer goes on to talk (a bit) about some stuff regarding Columbia, which may be interesting. Well, the Columbia bit came off as an aside, really, but whatev. Point is, I'd still do things to James, naughty things . . . and to Tina Fey too, but that's a whole other post.

Link! http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/03/25/james-franco-writes-fiction-for-esquire-should-he-stick-to-his-day-job/

Andrea said...

Congrats to those who've committed to programs! I can't wait to get to that point so I can actually start to figure some stuff out. Although, I'm simultaneously terrified. Anyone else? It's the good kind of terrified, but still...

Also, there have been a few posts inquiring about Mills College. I have a friend who's a first-year poet at Mills and LOVES it, and I could contact her to see if she'd be interested in emailing with those who have questions. If anyone's interested, let me know!

Summer said...

@Peaquah - Michigan's waitlist letter was one of the best correspondences I've received in this whole process. It gives you the feeling that they are just DYING to give you a spot and that you shouldn't lose hope. As to where I am on the list, they refused to tell me - the letter only mentions, in bold underline, that "candidates of your ranking have been offered admission in recent years." I suspect all the waitlisters get this assurance, but it sure made me feel special! In any case, thanks for your good wishes.

@ruth - Congrats on the awesome dilemma re: Virgina vs. Michigan! As I haven't heard anything from the Dove lady, I suspect my hopes are dashed. Be sure to let us know where you go. I'm certain you will have a blast either way.

Andrea said...

@ Zoulou

I'm confused- didn't you have to take freshman comp in college?

I took Teaching of Comp in my last semester of undergrad and highly recommend one my books from that class, The St. Martin's Guide to Teaching Writing (6th ed.), to any and all here. I'll definitely be using that text to prepare for teaching. A lot of it is geared specifically toward grad TA's teaching first-year comp, so it's a great resource.

Zoulou said...

@DigAPony - first off, nope (oh my god why not!!? how did my college let me graduate without taking a single English course? haha, yeah, there's the panic again), and secondly, thank you! That book sounds like an awesome place to start. Gonna got get that, now.

Haha, yikes. Also, Trilbe, loved your Franco comments :)

lookylookyyonder said...

it hurts my soul to double post things, but it looks like this might have gotten buried:

seth, what's your sense of gmu's poetry program? at the moment anyway it looks to be ranked quite a bit higher than the program as a whole, and i was wondering why that might be. i have my own ideas, but i'd be curious to hear your take (if you have one).

Michele said...

@DigAPony:

I'd love to talk to your friend at Mills. Thanks for the offer!! I'm dying to form an opinion and just don't really feel like I know much about the program. My email address is mlombardo_2001@yahoo.com.

Thanks!
Michele

Rosie said...

@Cratty,

That review sums up my thoughts about Franco's story as well. Also, the boy seems to have a pathological fear of periods (or a fetish for commas.)

Zoulou said...

Oooh, heads up, UW (Washington) applicants - I just got a rejection email from them right now, for fiction.

Jason R Jimenez said...

Boy, do I feel a little awkward to say that I enjoyed Franco's story! Wasn't spectacular or anything but funny and awkward. If his entire collection is like this though I will lose the Franco Faith.

Don't kill me for writing this!!

About said...

Anyone know what the deal is with SFSU?

A bunch of people reported acceptances for fiction (and some e-mail rejections), but I've received no word at all. I did, however, get the phantom financial aid e-mail.

If anyone knows what's up, or has spoken to someone from the program ...

Ashley Brooke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zoulou said...

Shoot - and by Trilbe, I meant Cratty! I think I must be getting you acceptance rockstars confused. Sorry about that!

WreckingLight said...

@Nadiya,

I'm 99% on Iowa (for poetry).

Andrea said...

@ Michele

No prob, chica! I just emailed her, so we'll see. Good luck with your decision-making.

Re James Franco

I still haven't read his story because I love him as an actor- what if this makes me hate someone from my beloved Freaks & Geeks? :) Although, like Ashley Brooke says, at least he's not like many celebrities who "write" books- I love seeing those covers, because the celebrity's name is always bigger than the title, and in very teeny print at the bottom it says "with So And So," the person who ACTUALLY WROTE the book. Grrrr.

Anyway, I suppose my point is that everyone should watch Freaks and Geeks.

Unknown said...

I have been crazy busy so I haven’t been on the blog lately. I opened up my spot at LSU this morning. I’ll be going to Minnesota in the fall.
Congrats to everyone!

Best,
Aaron

Summer said...

@re: Florida State. Just to give my insider view of the program here at FSU (I graduated from the program as an undergrad), I would say Seth's assessment is correct concerning program size. It is definitely larger than the classes of 10-12 that a lot of good programs accept every year, and some people might not like that. Personally, I enjoyed being around the many excellent writers in the program and I learned a lot from them.

One thing I can say about the FSU faculty is that they are all serious writers and serious about the teaching of writing. I even got off on the wrong foot with one of them in particular (poetry professor and current program director Erin Belieu), and there was never a sense that the personality clash was holding me back. She told me honestly how I needed to improve, and I might have resented it in my righteous junior-year mind, but she turned out to be one of my most helpful teachers.

The faculty at large, aside from being helpful and accommodating, all have big personalities and diverse teaching styles. I can't name a single weak link in the lineup at FSU. If anyone has any questions about specific teachers, Tallahassee, etc. please feel free to send me an email at jazzmaestro(dot)greer(at)gmail(dot)com.

Just my word. Also, if anyone wants info concerning FSU acceptance/waitlist/rejections, I could ask around. I'm not in the MFA program, nor have I ever applied to it, so I would have to go on a hunt for exact dates.

Ashley Brooke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Woon said...

@DigAPony, Zoulou - I also never took an English Literature or Composition class...EVER. (except high school English) I learned how to read and write through the University of Real Life. Got a perfect 6.0 on the GRE Analytical Writing portion. I look forward to Graduate level English Lit classes even though I've never taken UNDERgraduate level English Lit classes. I also look forward to teaching Freshmen Comp at my future MFA program even though I never took Freshmen Comp in college. LOL! (This is going to be good...)

Ashley Brooke said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Summer said...

@ Nadiya - Congrats on the Iowa decision. I hope you like corn! Hehe. It will certainly be a change from busy Bangladesh. You might miss the smells of home (and the non-blizzards), but what can you do about an offer you can't refuse, right?

Woon said...

@Nadiya - Congratulations!

Chelsea said...

Came home to acceptance letter from UNCG. In for poetry!!!

Shaking. Phew. Yes. What I've been waiting for.

Congrats to all with much anticipated news today [:

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