I can click "comment" and the box pops up and I can write something, but then there's no way to post it. Which is weird. It could just be my browser, not sure.
@ Katie Oh- hahahaha about your dream about posting a Facebook status! I've had many a dream about Facebook, including posting perfectly clever statuses, so I sympathize.
@ others I didn't mean Ohio State, I meant Ohio University- sorry for the confusion! I'm applying to MA programs as well, you see.
I joined the facebook group! Don't be alarmed by my profile picture of myself as a hideous 10 year old.
I'm on Facebook too! (obviously just my plain jane boring 'ol name).
Re: Oregon app status
Don't fret, folks, my Oregon application checker link also states that I have done absolutely nothing toward applying to the program. However, when I check my app status back on the app form, it says that they've received everything. I think they just haven't synced app status with the new online application yet.
I just paid for my Michener Center application *gulp* and I was wondering if anyone knows when the mythical UTEID is assigned. I can't seem to find it, and I haven't received an email with it (yet, though it may be forthcoming). I apparently need it to fill out cover sheets, so....
Does anyone else freak out when hitting the submit button on these apps?
I received an e-mail from Austin about two days after I submitted my application. The subject line was "Your UT Austin EID" - so, thankfully, it was hard to miss.
More than likely if you are using a card outside your country it is going to be automatically flagged for fraud. Has happened to me and pretty much all of my friends over here in Spain at least once. I would call your credit card company and let them know.
Any thoughts about late recommendations? I've done all I can and no luck yet. The Amherst postmark date was the 1st and two letters are missing. Michener is sooo strict about getting everything by the 15th and two letters, as of now, are missing. I'm not looking for advice on pestering the faculty, I'm handling that as well as I can, I'm more curious if anyone knows how this might affect me. I've been told everything from "it means nothing" to "they won't even read your application until they get everything."
All apps now finished. Guess I'll give it a few days and then check around to make sure all my schools have everything. What a clusterfuck that process is.
I've seen some comments freaking out about going above the word limit on SOPs. I know a lot of programmes are strict about the writing sample page limit, but are they on SOP word limits? Most of them specify an upper limit of 500 words, and mine (I've already turned in one app) is around 650. Is that too far past the upper limit?
So, one of my programs asks for complete information on the sample (name, address, phone number, email, etc.) I then went ahead and printed all my samples with this header. Is this fine? Do some schools dislike this, prefer to read samples blind? I know some magazines prefer no information on submissions and some require it.
@Loren - heh, I don't have a facebook account :S I know, I'm one of like three people under the age of 60 without one (I mean, my dad has one for Christ's sake), but I just don't want to deal with it. Especially because I'm a teacher and students have a field day with those things. It prompted one of my colleagues to shut hers down as well. Plus, I can't keep track of anything these days and that thing would probably just sit there gathering e-dust.
Thanks for the e-vite, though! Don't talk smack about me there, now :P
@Kaushik: I wouldn't go over the limit on anything. Considering how much these poor bastards have to read, you'd probably piss them off if you went over.
@kaybay: You aren't alone. I have an alternate identity for Facebook. I don't post messages, pictures, or videos either. I use Facebook because it's easy to track down old friends. My interest ends there.
Seth needs to expand this MFA Blog, though. This blogger.com layout won't cut it any longer.
I'm sure I'm going crazy. I keep thinking that there's a school I'm either forgetting about or that I've entered wrong status information for in my spreadsheet. Like I claim it's submitted when really I haven't started.
Also, pray for my LORs to come in. (pray for my sanity).
But don't you think it would be better to compartmentalize certain posts, to help sort everything out?
Sometimes, if 3-4 people ask questions, we might see 10-12 other posts (or more questions) before members actually answer those initial questions. I mean, questions have a way of being buried when the board gets really busy. Some never get answered.
I am hoping that all the acceptances are posted here and not on facebook :*( or they at least begin on facebook and trickle there way down here! These things I must know! :P
Only two more months until early acceptances come out *raises eyebrows twice*
I'm with Jeff. The Speakeasy format is my favorite. I fear we've been moving in a direction that is incrementally worse for giving advice to future applicants. I know I read through the message boards when I was first applying. Here, though, everything is lumped and hard to search through. Then in a facebook format, we have practically banned those who come after us from that information. (This is not to say I blame us for having the group. I, like some others, just hope most of the conversation stays here.)
@kaybay, I'll definitely be sharing my results here. Don't fear!
I don't even have all my applications done yet, and the anticipation is killing me. I'm going to have to come up with some really effective way to stay distracted for the next few months... like joining a gym or learning a language. What's everyone else planning, to get through the waiting game?
I also don't think facebook is going to do anything but give people a chance to keep in touch post application season and give us another outlet for miscellaneous chatter.
I'm really not a fan of the Speakeasy format. If it were similar to more message boards (sections and threads)that would be one thing but the threads there have several topics within them and it's hard to tell who's responding to what and what's going on.
While this format might be more difficult for some that are looking back through archives (though personally I found it easier to go back through old mailbags here than old speakeasy threads), I much prefer it as a current applicant. I have the posts sent to my email and don't even need to log on, unless I want to post.
If things were divided out in threads/by topic I think the conversation would be less fluid and, more importantly, I would miss out on a lot of valuable information because I thought a certain thread/topic didn't apply to me. For example, I would have never checked a thread about OSU because I'm not applying. BUT hearing that their deadline was wrong, made me go back and triple check all my deadlines and I caught one that I'd either labeled wrong on my spreadsheet or that had changed since I first put in deadlines back in September.
@I As for the waiting game? meh. My goal is to do a delayed nanowrimo to keep myself writing anytime I start to think/stress about applications. Care to join me? I've also, for the first time in my life, joined a gym. A blob in the gym is interesting...
I have a couple schools on my list that don't seem to be on too many other people's lists. Secretly, this makes me happy. But this is obviously only a small selection of people applying.
And I'm sure there is a whole slew of lurkers that might come out once it comes time to announce acceptances and err...rejections.
I just hope that IF I'm going to get any acceptances, they come early.
I still have more applications to submit, but my mind is already into waiting/panicking mode.
i'll join you in a delayed nanowrimo. last year i wasted all my energy refreshing this (and a few other) pages for acceptance news. i don't think i wrote more than a couple of pages between jan and march. that ain't happening this time around.
In the wake of submitting my final application today, I'm beginning to wonder whether I shouldn't use this time before Jan 1 to apply to one or two more programs. (Read: I celebrated for all of three seconds before I began to have doubts.) I just feel that the last applications I submitted are far stronger than the first several I submitted three weeks ago. The writing sample hasn't changed, but the SOPs have evolved,and I don't think it would hurt to send out a few more of my strongest apps.
Financially, I need to choose just one-two of the following programs: U Illinois, Urbana-Champaign Southern Illinois U Johns Hopkins Penn State U
Can anyone provide more information, advice, anecdotes, etc. about any of these MFAs (or link me to some)? My genre is poetry.
I don't know much about most of the schools on your list. But I've heard that John Hopkins has a very, very competitive atmosphere. I'm sure many thrive in that type of enviornment. But, personally I'd rather not deal with that kind of atmosphere in an MFA program, if possible. For this reason, I removed them from my list early on. I know people who've been through the program and got a lot out of it and felt that the competitive atmosphere helped them develop better work and helped to prepare them for the publishing world/academia. But, it wasn't for me.
Either way you fall, it's something worth knowing.
I just go an email from the University of Wisconsin about a part of my online application that wasn't complete. It was really, really nice and reassuring to know that someone emailed me, rather than just chucking my application for being flawed. I'm sure this will give a lot of people some hope!
The bad news, of course, is that part of my application is incomplete. But on my end it show's as being complete. For whatever reason, it's not showing up on their's. hmmm. Makes me worry...
Does anyone have an opinion on formatting? If a program wants a max of 20 pages, double spaced, would it be terribly bad to use 1.5 point spacing to essentially give myself an extra few pages?
Shawn, if they ask for double spacing, that's what I would give them. Just make sure your margins aren't too big, change the font to something that's slightly smaller but not obnoxiously so, etc.
@jeff I'm more or less done with my bama app, but I'm waiting for recs to come in so I can send them with my application packet. If I get to christmas time without them, I'll send it off anyway.
Yay! I don't have a facebook account either. I'm the only person I know who doesn't.
@ everyone else:
'Bama, indeed. I finished their online application. I just basically need to print stuff out and scrounge up some money for the app fee. I'm planning on sending my GRE scores there by the end of this week.
Does anyone have a blank copy of the Michener Center cover sheet they could email me? Their website is down and I swore I would finish this app tonight!
I'm having the same problem. Basically right now my SOP is a concise, more achievement-and-goal oriented version of the Autobiographical Sketch. What I'm doing now is using the Sketch to expand on certain things I mentioned in the SOP and in turn make the SOP even more concise.
@Shawn
I'm planning to do that for some programmes with a low page-limit. Double-spaced is usually standard format, but where they haven't explicitly said so, I'm hoping I can squeeze my manuscript into 1.5.
For those of you who might run might close, be careful about Alabama's deadline. I'm almost sure they phrase it as "everything must be received BEFORE December 31st."
@Blob + fellow 'Bama applicants:
Am I correct in my belief that Alabama's grad school requires 2 sets of transcripts from every school we've attended? If so, that could get expensive for those who moved around a bit during their undergrad years.
I think if it were me reading that application, I'd roll my eyes and have a bad taste in my mouth about the applicant.
That said, visually, telling the difference between 1.8 or 1.9 spacing and straight double is very, very difficult. If you combine that with rigged margins...
I think I"m going crazy a little bit..because is it just me, or does Purdue not have any specific guidelines for applying to the MFA program? There's the creative writing website, which describes the program...and the English website the creative writing program directs to...that has information on applying...but mentions nothing about a creative sample. Am I just missing something?
WHEN WILL IT ALL STOP???? I'm so ready to be fucking done with this shit.
Here's some of Purdue's stuff. When you get a chance, Courtney, kick back and have a drink. I took some time off already and drank half a fifth Seagram's VO Gold. And it was good!
"Two transcripts from all colleges and universities attended; official GRE scores from the testing center; a statement of purpose; a writing sample (a 10-15 page critical essay written for a course in English or one of the other humanities); and three letters of recommendation. Applicants for Creative Writing also need to submit samples of recent work."
"Applicants for Creative Writing need to submit a critical writing sample AND recent samples of writing - a group of 8-10 poems if applying in poetry; 2 to 3 short stories (or a novel excerpt) if applying in fiction. Please include a brief response to these questions: Whose work do you admire? What collections of poetry and/or works of fiction read in the last year have been important to you and why?"
A LOT of these universities bury pertinent information deep inside their sites. I started to post instructions on how to find that stuff on Purdue's site, but it became ridiculous--go here, click this, then go down, click this, click that.
I don't understand why they don't consolidate everything into one neat checklist, like a .pdf we can print and keep and...check off, item by item.
Anyway, Purdue folds their Creative Writing material inside of their Graduate English site. It's basically: 'If you want an M.A. in English do this and that, but if you want an MFA in Creative Writing, you have to do all that--plus all of this.'
Crazy, isn't it? It's like they want to drive us mad.
@Kaushik-Okay, so then I'm going in the right direction. What I ended up doing was splitting my PS in half. I put my resume type paragraphs in the sketch and the "what I'm doing to get better and what I want from your school" in the personal statement. Thank goodness it only has to be 1 page because that's all I got, haha!
Subjct-Margin Cheating
I think there's only so far you can go. The standard setting on margins is 1.25, so maybe go to 1.2 but once you get to .9 or .8, it's VERY noticeable and very obnoxious. Don't do it!
The way I understand it, the SOP is a letter of intent and is fairly formal and academic. I'm writing mine very strictly on what has lead me to pursue an mfa (in an academic sense), what I want to gain from my mfa, and what I plan to do with it. The autobiographical sketch, to me, seems like an opportunity to either expand on something that is mentioned elsewhere on your application or to talk about something that wouldn't be found elsewhere.
I'm going with the latter and talking about the influence my family life and background have had on me as a writer.
Thanks for pointing out the 'received by' wording. I thought I'd marked all of those on my spreadsheet, but I hadn't noticed that for Bama. I have my application packet ready to go, I was just waiting for one set of LORs to come in. But I suppose I better just send it off next week if I still don't have that in.
Another thing worth noting is that their online application is not due until 1/15, in case some people want/need extra time with that.
As for transcripts, from my understanding they need one official sent to the graduate school and one unofficial. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood their requirements and that's what they're getting from me!
Sounds like everyone is doing something similar to what I did. I used the shorter version of my statement of purpose, then expanded on some of the ideas in my sop and added more discussion/thought/autobiography about how I came to be the writer I am.
@Blob
You asked about Wisconsin awhile ago--I don't have any information about what it's like to go there, but I applied last year and they really impressed me by making every step of the application process as easy as possible. I hope you have a similar experience (though with an acceptance at the end)!
Thanks for the input on Wisconsin (and the goodluck wish!)
Someone from the graduate english school emailed me yesterday to say that part of my online application wasn't complete. On my end it actually was complete so seems like a glitch in the system. But STILL I found it really really nice and reassuring that someone actually took the time to let me know there was an issue with my application rather than considering it incomplete and tossing it to the side. Makes me feel good about the program and the people working there, which is always a plus.
Be careful about your transcripts. I double-checked, and it looks like the envelope you send to the Creative Writing Dept. (with your writing sample) can contain photocopies or "unofficial" transcripts," but the Alabama grad school requires 2 official copies sent from each school. I copied this directly from the Alabama Graduate School site:
Official Transcripts from all institutions attended (2 copies each)
I've attended 6 undergrad institutions, and my cost per set of transcripts is hovering around $40, so I just called the Graduate Admissions office to get clarification on the 2 sets of transcripts issue (and I didn't get this in writing, so take it as you will). The woman I spoke with said that they basically hold the second set for the MFA department if the applicant is admitted, but that it is okay to send one copy of transcripts and that they would photocopy them for the MFA department. So. Send or don't, but she didn't seem too fussed either way.
In other news, I seem to have misplaced approximately 7 letters of recommendation. I am trying not to panic. I did get some stuff sent out yesterday, so I feel like I'm finally making progress.
Wish I'd waited to see that before jumping the gun and ordering up another set. But, given that it's the cheapest part of my application process, I can't complain too much.
All and all it seems like most schools are fairly flexible and reasonable. I appreciate that.
As for LORs, I'm sure you'll find them! I'm still waiting for 2 out of 5 recommenders to send their letters in. Eep!
If you're submitting your work online as PDFs, they won't be able to see margins/font sizes, etc. If a program specifically requires a certain format, I would definitely stick to it, but otherwise I think you can feel the freedom to make some small alterations. I personally would FAR prefer to change the margins/fonts than try to cut from a sample that I feel is complete.
You obviously don't want to be too noticeable (or noticeable at all). 1.5 spacing is obvious, 0.5 inch margins are obvious, etc. But if you only need to drop a page or two, I think it can be done without cutting from the work itself.
@Katie Oh and Jonathan Just an fyi, you can still see margin rulers on pdfs. I don't know that programs care that much to look at this. But if they do, it's easy to see. spacing will probably be harder.
But from what I've heard, in general, is that programs do not toss or ignore or even think badly of applications that go a few pages over, but that they will often stop reading at the cut off. Honestly, though, the way I feel, if they like your stuff they'll either read the whole thing or it won't matter that they didn't. And if they didn't, they probably won't make it to page 25 as it is.
Dangit, playing with line spacing and margins in the tenths is of no use trying to get 30 pages to fit in 25. This is really frustrating. Do I cut one story altogether or run the risk of annoying the admissions people with 1.5 spacing? To be fair, and I state this again, some programme webpages don't specify anywhere how they want the manuscript to be formatted. Would they really hold 1.5 spacing against an applicant?
Folks applying to Hopkins, let's talk about that SOP:
"The statement of purpose (critique of work) should consist of a two-page introduction and critique. This statement should give admissions faculty a view to the scope and thoughtfulness of the work submitted and a sense of the student's ability to contribute in the writing workshops."
It's the self-critique part that's tripping me up-- how do I address the scope and thoughtfulness of my own work submitted? In my other SOPs, I've only minimally addressed my writing sample, on the belief that it should stand (or fall) on its own. Thoughts, anyone?
Yeah,the 25 limits are a bit cruel...Honestly, I think I plan to cut my sample which is now 31 pages (by playing with margins and what not) to 28 or so,and sending them like that. I think if they're enjoying it, the 3 page overage is not enough to upset them. I think 1.5 spacing is like trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Double spacing is a little implicit. We wouldn't send in a single-spaced sample, right?
elsa! It's like magic, huh? I've been doin' it for awhile, and it's one that people never seem to notice in the way that they notice jankity margins.
BT-DUBS, if anyone is using Microsoft Word on PC, the bottom and top margins may say 1 inch, but you may notice it's much larger than that. Change that to .8 and it will actually measure 1 inch. Make sure to turn off widows/orphans and keep with next, as well.
1.25" margins are DEFAULT, but I don't think that's considered standard for academic papers and the like. MLA calls for 1". My margins for my apps will all be 1", for shiz.
I read that Reference Season blog entry and now I'm fretting. The author writes, "New college grads were not taken very seriously except in cases of brilliance." (He was part of the selection committee at Ohio State.)
I am crossing my fingers that that isn't true across the board-- I hope that my relatively young age (I'm 21) and lack of life experience (college senior) isn't in and of itself something that would have committees reject me.
I wouldn't freak out. It's not as if they don't bother to read your writing sample if you're a graduating senior. I'm sure, though, that most recent grads as a rule tend to be less qualified than older writers (which just makes sense in terms of experience).
He even pointed out that ultimately the most important factor is the writing sample. So fret not!
Pointless rant: Okay, so I sent in my Pittsburgh and Iowa apps on the same day (December 1st-- I know, cutting it close) and the post office said they'd get there by the 4th. Well, my handy-dandy tracking number told me that while Iowa is indeed in the hands of the... Iowans, my Pittsburgh app has yet to arrive, and it's due the 10th! Much wringing of the hands ensues. The website says it's at the Pittsburgh post office, though, so hopefully it will get there tomorrow...
Yeah, I'm not sweating it. There's a short story by Ha Jin called "English Professor" where the narrator turns in a thesis or something with the words "Respectly yours" and spends the story obsessing about it. It's a funny story for writers who stress about such things.
So you guys don't think it's cheating to use Georgia font size 11, do you? I saw someone on here promoting Georgia. Georgia 11 is almost the same as Times 12, but cuts a LOT of space.
Do you think this is cool with most schools (ie the ones that don't specify font)?
I was the one promoting Georgia 11.5 or 11. So...no, I don't think it's cheating. ;) Others might disagree. It really doesn't look any smaller than Times, does it?
@ Jami - not sure where you heard that about new college grads not being taken seriously, but I wanted to step in. I'm in my first year in nonfiction at OSU and I came straight from undergrad -- and I am certainly not brilliant. There are also a few other people in the program (spread out over the three years; I think there's only one other first year) who came straight from undergrad. It's not the norm, no, but I think that has more to do with the fact that most applicants take time off, and less to do with a "rule" that graduating college seniors aren't taken seriously.
I can't believe you actually went back and read things you've already submitted. I'm not nearly brave enough to do that. Ignorance truly is bliss. What's done is done!
The SOP I submitted to the early deadlines used the word "execute"-- as in, to carry through-- with regard to my writing. But just a few days ago, with only two applications left, I suddenly got an image in my head of chopping the head off my writing, and changed the word. Blergh.
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520 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 520 of 520Do you know why you can't comment?
** above post is for EGS.. And also, who are you in the group?
I can click "comment" and the box pops up and I can write something, but then there's no way to post it. Which is weird. It could just be my browser, not sure.
I'm Elaina S.
@egs i have no button for posting either. but if you hit the enter key it posts. Or at least it did for me.
Blob, that worked for me. Stupid facebook.
@ stupid facebook
I have posted prematurely twice already because I hit enter to move on down a line....and then it posts.
EFF WORD.
'Giiligan' was my last premature comment wad.
Ah, the Facebook group was a great idea... So lovely to put all of your beautiful faces with your names!
@KayBay-
I'm doing your critique right now! You should have it back today.
just joined! i'm the one with the pokemon profile picture, because i am secretly about 12 years old.
@ Katie Oh- hahahaha about your dream about posting a Facebook status! I've had many a dream about Facebook, including posting perfectly clever statuses, so I sympathize.
@ others
I didn't mean Ohio State, I meant Ohio University- sorry for the confusion! I'm applying to MA programs as well, you see.
I joined the facebook group! Don't be alarmed by my profile picture of myself as a hideous 10 year old.
I'm Joe Smith (Facebook).
It's my alias.
14/14 as of last night. Exhausted, but done.
@Gena
Congratulations! Nice work!
I've still got four apps to finish, but I'm already looking forward to the feeling of relief I'll have when they're done. Can't wait!
I'm on Facebook too! (obviously just my plain jane boring 'ol name).
Re: Oregon app status
Don't fret, folks, my Oregon application checker link also states that I have done absolutely nothing toward applying to the program. However, when I check my app status back on the app form, it says that they've received everything. I think they just haven't synced app status with the new online application yet.
At least, I hope so....*bites nails*
Hey folks!
I just paid for my Michener Center application *gulp* and I was wondering if anyone knows when the mythical UTEID is assigned. I can't seem to find it, and I haven't received an email with it (yet, though it may be forthcoming). I apparently need it to fill out cover sheets, so....
Does anyone else freak out when hitting the submit button on these apps?
@ There
I received an e-mail from Austin about two days after I submitted my application. The subject line was "Your UT Austin EID" - so, thankfully, it was hard to miss.
When did you submit your app?
@ X
More than likely if you are using a card outside your country it is going to be automatically flagged for fraud. Has happened to me and pretty much all of my friends over here in Spain at least once. I would call your credit card company and let them know.
Gena - CONGRATS! Now comes the waiting. Guh.
Any thoughts about late recommendations? I've done all I can and no luck yet. The Amherst postmark date was the 1st and two letters are missing. Michener is sooo strict about getting everything by the 15th and two letters, as of now, are missing. I'm not looking for advice on pestering the faculty, I'm handling that as well as I can, I'm more curious if anyone knows how this might affect me. I've been told everything from "it means nothing" to "they won't even read your application until they get everything."
Joined the FB group.
All apps now finished. Guess I'll give it a few days and then check around to make sure all my schools have everything. What a clusterfuck that process is.
Methinks this mail bag is going to hit 1,000 fairly soon!
Is anyone else applying at Texas State? It doesn't look like they require GRE scores.
I've seen some comments freaking out about going above the word limit on SOPs. I know a lot of programmes are strict about the writing sample page limit, but are they on SOP word limits? Most of them specify an upper limit of 500 words, and mine (I've already turned in one app) is around 650. Is that too far past the upper limit?
So, one of my programs asks for complete information on the sample (name, address, phone number, email, etc.) I then went ahead and printed all my samples with this header. Is this fine? Do some schools dislike this, prefer to read samples blind? I know some magazines prefer no information on submissions and some require it.
Kaybay! Come join our facebook group!
@Loren - heh, I don't have a facebook account :S I know, I'm one of like three people under the age of 60 without one (I mean, my dad has one for Christ's sake), but I just don't want to deal with it. Especially because I'm a teacher and students have a field day with those things. It prompted one of my colleagues to shut hers down as well. Plus, I can't keep track of anything these days and that thing would probably just sit there gathering e-dust.
Thanks for the e-vite, though! Don't talk smack about me there, now :P
@Kaushik: I wouldn't go over the limit on anything. Considering how much these poor bastards have to read, you'd probably piss them off if you went over.
@kaybay: You aren't alone. I have an alternate identity for Facebook. I don't post messages, pictures, or videos either. I use Facebook because it's easy to track down old friends. My interest ends there.
Seth needs to expand this MFA Blog, though. This blogger.com layout won't cut it any longer.
I'm sure I'm going crazy. I keep thinking that there's a school I'm either forgetting about or that I've entered wrong status information for in my spreadsheet. Like I claim it's submitted when really I haven't started.
Also, pray for my LORs to come in. (pray for my sanity).
oh, and @jeff
This isn't seth's blog, it's Tom Keeley's.
I also much, much prefer this format to the PW forum.
I also think it's easier to see everything together than to look under topics.
@Blob:
But don't you think it would be better to compartmentalize certain posts, to help sort everything out?
Sometimes, if 3-4 people ask questions, we might see 10-12 other posts (or more questions) before members actually answer those initial questions. I mean, questions have a way of being buried when the board gets really busy. Some never get answered.
I am hoping that all the acceptances are posted here and not on facebook :*( or they at least begin on facebook and trickle there way down here! These things I must know! :P
Only two more months until early acceptances come out *raises eyebrows twice*
@ kaybay
that's hard to believe, isn't it? oh, how nice an early acceptance would be. so soothing on the nerves. here's hoping!
I'm with Jeff. The Speakeasy format is my favorite. I fear we've been moving in a direction that is incrementally worse for giving advice to future applicants. I know I read through the message boards when I was first applying. Here, though, everything is lumped and hard to search through. Then in a facebook format, we have practically banned those who come after us from that information. (This is not to say I blame us for having the group. I, like some others, just hope most of the conversation stays here.)
@kaybay, I'll definitely be sharing my results here. Don't fear!
I don't even have all my applications done yet, and the anticipation is killing me. I'm going to have to come up with some really effective way to stay distracted for the next few months... like joining a gym or learning a language. What's everyone else planning, to get through the waiting game?
I also don't think facebook is going to do anything but give people a chance to keep in touch post application season and give us another outlet for miscellaneous chatter.
I'm really not a fan of the Speakeasy format. If it were similar to more message boards (sections and threads)that would be one thing but the threads there have several topics within them and it's hard to tell who's responding to what and what's going on.
While this format might be more difficult for some that are looking back through archives (though personally I found it easier to go back through old mailbags here than old speakeasy threads), I much prefer it as a current applicant. I have the posts sent to my email and don't even need to log on, unless I want to post.
If things were divided out in threads/by topic I think the conversation would be less fluid and, more importantly, I would miss out on a lot of valuable information because I thought a certain thread/topic didn't apply to me. For example, I would have never checked a thread about OSU because I'm not applying. BUT hearing that their deadline was wrong, made me go back and triple check all my deadlines and I caught one that I'd either labeled wrong on my spreadsheet or that had changed since I first put in deadlines back in September.
@I
As for the waiting game? meh. My goal is to do a delayed nanowrimo to keep myself writing anytime I start to think/stress about applications. Care to join me?
I've also, for the first time in my life, joined a gym. A blob in the gym is interesting...
I have a couple schools on my list that don't seem to be on too many other people's lists. Secretly, this makes me happy. But this is obviously only a small selection of people applying.
And I'm sure there is a whole slew of lurkers that might come out once it comes time to announce acceptances and err...rejections.
I just hope that IF I'm going to get any acceptances, they come early.
I still have more applications to submit, but my mind is already into waiting/panicking mode.
@Blob
i'll join you in a delayed nanowrimo. last year i wasted all my energy refreshing this (and a few other) pages for acceptance news. i don't think i wrote more than a couple of pages between jan and march. that ain't happening this time around.
i third the motion for delayed nanowrimo. i am halfway done with applications and i already feel impatient! just let me know now!
Postmark deadline came and went almost a week ago. My recommenders haven't done their letters yet. Ugh.
In the wake of submitting my final application today, I'm beginning to wonder whether I shouldn't use this time before Jan 1 to apply to one or two more programs. (Read: I celebrated for all of three seconds before I began to have doubts.) I just feel that the last applications I submitted are far stronger than the first several I submitted three weeks ago. The writing sample hasn't changed, but the SOPs have evolved,and I don't think it would hurt to send out a few more of my strongest apps.
Financially, I need to choose just one-two of the following programs:
U Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Southern Illinois U
Johns Hopkins
Penn State U
Can anyone provide more information, advice, anecdotes, etc. about any of these MFAs (or link me to some)? My genre is poetry.
I'd really appreciate it. Thanks!
@ajw
I don't know much about most of the schools on your list. But I've heard that John Hopkins has a very, very competitive atmosphere. I'm sure many thrive in that type of enviornment. But, personally I'd rather not deal with that kind of atmosphere in an MFA program, if possible. For this reason, I removed them from my list early on. I know people who've been through the program and got a lot out of it and felt that the competitive atmosphere helped them develop better work and helped to prepare them for the publishing world/academia. But, it wasn't for me.
Either way you fall, it's something worth knowing.
Thanks, Blob! That's definitely something I will consider. I'm not sure competitiveness is something I want in a program, either.
Good news and bad news:
I just go an email from the University of Wisconsin about a part of my online application that wasn't complete. It was really, really nice and reassuring to know that someone emailed me, rather than just chucking my application for being flawed. I'm sure this will give a lot of people some hope!
The bad news, of course, is that part of my application is incomplete. But on my end it show's as being complete. For whatever reason, it's not showing up on their's. hmmm. Makes me worry...
Does anyone have an opinion on formatting? If a program wants a max of 20 pages, double spaced, would it be terribly bad to use 1.5 point spacing to essentially give myself an extra few pages?
Shawn, if they ask for double spacing, that's what I would give them. Just make sure your margins aren't too big, change the font to something that's slightly smaller but not obnoxiously so, etc.
There are several of us getting ready for Alabama's December 31 deadline, I believe.
@jeff
I'm more or less done with my bama app, but I'm waiting for recs to come in so I can send them with my application packet. If I get to christmas time without them, I'll send it off anyway.
Good luck to everyone.
Can anybody explain to me the distinct differences between Irvine's Statement of Purpose and Autobiographical sketch?
@kaybay:
Yay! I don't have a facebook account either. I'm the only person I know who doesn't.
@ everyone else:
'Bama, indeed. I finished their online application. I just basically need to print stuff out and scrounge up some money for the app fee. I'm planning on sending my GRE scores there by the end of this week.
Does anyone know if CSU's deadline is postmark or received by? (12/15)
Does anyone have a blank copy of the Michener Center cover sheet they could email me? Their website is down and I swore I would finish this app tonight!
jjgarr01 (at) gmail.com
Thank you!
Just got the cover sheet from a few people. Thanks everyone!
@Courtney - hurrah for people without facebook!
@Gummy Bear Sacrifice,
I'm having the same problem. Basically right now my SOP is a concise, more achievement-and-goal oriented version of the Autobiographical Sketch. What I'm doing now is using the Sketch to expand on certain things I mentioned in the SOP and in turn make the SOP even more concise.
@Shawn
I'm planning to do that for some programmes with a low page-limit. Double-spaced is usually standard format, but where they haven't explicitly said so, I'm hoping I can squeeze my manuscript into 1.5.
For those of you who might run might close, be careful about Alabama's deadline. I'm almost sure they phrase it as "everything must be received BEFORE December 31st."
@Blob + fellow 'Bama applicants:
Am I correct in my belief that Alabama's grad school requires 2 sets of transcripts from every school we've attended? If so, that could get expensive for those who moved around a bit during their undergrad years.
Best of luck to all of you!
@ 1.5 people:
It's not like they're not going to notice.
I think if it were me reading that application, I'd roll my eyes and have a bad taste in my mouth about the applicant.
That said, visually, telling the difference between 1.8 or 1.9 spacing and straight double is very, very difficult. If you combine that with rigged margins...
Anybody know where to mail Illinois letters to?
Thanks, X.
I think I"m going crazy a little bit..because is it just me, or does Purdue not have any specific guidelines for applying to the MFA program? There's the creative writing website, which describes the program...and the English website the creative writing program directs to...that has information on applying...but mentions nothing about a creative sample. Am I just missing something?
WHEN WILL IT ALL STOP???? I'm so ready to be fucking done with this shit.
Courtney:
I suck at computers, but here's the link to Purdue's Creative Writing stuff. Can you copy and paste this? Does it work?
http://www.gradschool.purdue.edu/gradrequirements/dep.cfm?p=ENGL.html
Did you find it?
Here's some of Purdue's stuff. When you get a chance, Courtney, kick back and have a drink. I took some time off already and drank half a fifth Seagram's VO Gold. And it was good!
"Two transcripts from all colleges and universities attended; official GRE scores from the testing center; a statement of purpose; a writing sample (a 10-15 page critical essay written for a course in English or one of the other humanities); and three letters of recommendation. Applicants for Creative Writing also need to submit samples of recent work."
"Applicants for Creative Writing need to submit a critical writing sample AND recent samples of writing - a group of 8-10 poems if applying in poetry; 2 to 3 short stories (or a novel excerpt) if applying in fiction. Please include a brief response to these questions: Whose work do you admire? What collections of poetry and/or works of fiction read in the last year have been important to you and why?"
Jeff. Thank you so much. How did you find that? Maybe I really am going crazy.
A drink does sound nice. Hot chocolate + baileys + whisky = yes, please.
@Courtney:
A LOT of these universities bury pertinent information deep inside their sites. I started to post instructions on how to find that stuff on Purdue's site, but it became ridiculous--go here, click this, then go down, click this, click that.
I don't understand why they don't consolidate everything into one neat checklist, like a .pdf we can print and keep and...check off, item by item.
Anyway, Purdue folds their Creative Writing material inside of their Graduate English site. It's basically: 'If you want an M.A. in English do this and that, but if you want an MFA in Creative Writing, you have to do all that--plus all of this.'
Crazy, isn't it? It's like they want to drive us mad.
@Kaushik-Okay, so then I'm going in the right direction. What I ended up doing was splitting my PS in half. I put my resume type paragraphs in the sketch and the "what I'm doing to get better and what I want from your school" in the personal statement. Thank goodness it only has to be 1 page because that's all I got, haha!
Subjct-Margin Cheating
I think there's only so far you can go. The standard setting on margins is 1.25, so maybe go to 1.2 but once you get to .9 or .8, it's VERY noticeable and very obnoxious. Don't do it!
i think standard margins are often 1 inch. certainly, you wouldn't be penalized for using it (i wouldn't think).
1 inch is what i have been using, even for schools where i am not fiddling with the page count.
what are other people using?
@gummybear
re: UCI essays
The way I understand it, the SOP is a letter of intent and is fairly formal and academic. I'm writing mine very strictly on what has lead me to pursue an mfa (in an academic sense), what I want to gain from my mfa, and what I plan to do with it. The autobiographical sketch, to me, seems like an opportunity to either expand on something that is mentioned elsewhere on your application or to talk about something that wouldn't be found elsewhere.
I'm going with the latter and talking about the influence my family life and background have had on me as a writer.
@Jeff
re: Alabama
Thanks for pointing out the 'received by' wording. I thought I'd marked all of those on my spreadsheet, but I hadn't noticed that for Bama. I have my application packet ready to go, I was just waiting for one set of LORs to come in. But I suppose I better just send it off next week if I still don't have that in.
Another thing worth noting is that their online application is not due until 1/15, in case some people want/need extra time with that.
As for transcripts, from my understanding they need one official sent to the graduate school and one unofficial. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood their requirements and that's what they're getting from me!
Re: UCI Essays
Sounds like everyone is doing something similar to what I did. I used the shorter version of my statement of purpose, then expanded on some of the ideas in my sop and added more discussion/thought/autobiography about how I came to be the writer I am.
@Blob
You asked about Wisconsin awhile ago--I don't have any information about what it's like to go there, but I applied last year and they really impressed me by making every step of the application process as easy as possible. I hope you have a similar experience (though with an acceptance at the end)!
@ farfromgruntled -
I've been using 1" all around, which is what I've always been instructed to do. Times New Roman, double-spaced except for the header.
I might try this 1.8/1.9 spacing for the shorter length requirements, though. It sounds intriguing.
"Reference Season" Interesting blog post about MFA admissions/letters of rec from faculty perspective.
http://billanddavescocktailhour.com/reference-season/#more-1371
@L
Thanks for that link. I thoroughly enjoyed that post, though it's nothing I didn't already suspect. But a great read.
@Raine
Thanks for the input on Wisconsin (and the goodluck wish!)
Someone from the graduate english school emailed me yesterday to say that part of my online application wasn't complete. On my end it actually was complete so seems like a glitch in the system. But STILL I found it really really nice and reassuring that someone actually took the time to let me know there was an issue with my application rather than considering it incomplete and tossing it to the side. Makes me feel good about the program and the people working there, which is always a plus.
@Blob:
Be careful about your transcripts. I double-checked, and it looks like the envelope you send to the Creative Writing Dept. (with your writing sample) can contain photocopies or "unofficial" transcripts," but the Alabama grad school requires 2 official copies sent from each school. I copied this directly from the Alabama Graduate School site:
Official Transcripts from all institutions attended (2 copies each)
@jeff
GAH! Thank you for that. Just sent out another transcript. Thank god my school only charges $4 per transcript.
Nothing like a little misinformation to confuse things!
@ Everyone applying to Bama
I've attended 6 undergrad institutions, and my cost per set of transcripts is hovering around $40, so I just called the Graduate Admissions office to get clarification on the 2 sets of transcripts issue (and I didn't get this in writing, so take it as you will). The woman I spoke with said that they basically hold the second set for the MFA department if the applicant is admitted, but that it is okay to send one copy of transcripts and that they would photocopy them for the MFA department. So. Send or don't, but she didn't seem too fussed either way.
In other news, I seem to have misplaced approximately 7 letters of recommendation. I am trying not to panic. I did get some stuff sent out yesterday, so I feel like I'm finally making progress.
@thereandbackagain
Wish I'd waited to see that before jumping the gun and ordering up another set. But, given that it's the cheapest part of my application process, I can't complain too much.
All and all it seems like most schools are fairly flexible and reasonable. I appreciate that.
As for LORs, I'm sure you'll find them! I'm still waiting for 2 out of 5 recommenders to send their letters in. Eep!
Phew. I didn't lose the letters. She hasn't given them to me yet. Crisis averted. :)
@katie oh
I wouldn't play with margins any place that asks for an electronic submission. They can easily check it that way and it's just probably not worth it.
@ Blob -
the only place i'd be submitting it to is online applications. damn. cutting it is, then!
@Katie Oh
If you're submitting your work online as PDFs, they won't be able to see margins/font sizes, etc. If a program specifically requires a certain format, I would definitely stick to it, but otherwise I think you can feel the freedom to make some small alterations. I personally would FAR prefer to change the margins/fonts than try to cut from a sample that I feel is complete.
You obviously don't want to be too noticeable (or noticeable at all). 1.5 spacing is obvious, 0.5 inch margins are obvious, etc. But if you only need to drop a page or two, I think it can be done without cutting from the work itself.
@Katie Oh and Jonathan
Just an fyi, you can still see margin rulers on pdfs. I don't know that programs care that much to look at this. But if they do, it's easy to see. spacing will probably be harder.
But from what I've heard, in general, is that programs do not toss or ignore or even think badly of applications that go a few pages over, but that they will often stop reading at the cut off. Honestly, though, the way I feel, if they like your stuff they'll either read the whole thing or it won't matter that they didn't. And if they didn't, they probably won't make it to page 25 as it is.
Dangit, playing with line spacing and margins in the tenths is of no use trying to get 30 pages to fit in 25.
This is really frustrating. Do I cut one story altogether or run the risk of annoying the admissions people with 1.5 spacing?
To be fair, and I state this again, some programme webpages don't specify anywhere how they want the manuscript to be formatted. Would they really hold 1.5 spacing against an applicant?
Folks applying to Hopkins, let's talk about that SOP:
"The statement of purpose (critique of work) should consist of a two-page introduction and critique. This statement should give admissions faculty a view to the scope and thoughtfulness of the work submitted and a sense of the student's ability to contribute in the writing workshops."
It's the self-critique part that's tripping me up-- how do I address the scope and thoughtfulness of my own work submitted? In my other SOPs, I've only minimally addressed my writing sample, on the belief that it should stand (or fall) on its own. Thoughts, anyone?
Kaushick:
Yeah,the 25 limits are a bit cruel...Honestly, I think I plan to cut my sample which is now 31 pages (by playing with margins and what not) to 28 or so,and sending them like that. I think if they're enjoying it, the 3 page overage is not enough to upset them. I think 1.5 spacing is like trying to pull the wool over their eyes. Double spacing is a little implicit. We wouldn't send in a single-spaced sample, right?
@ Kaushik - have you tried 1.8 spacing? still looks like 2pt spacing, but I got my 30-pger to 25 that way :)
elsa! It's like magic, huh? I've been doin' it for awhile, and it's one that people never seem to notice in the way that they notice jankity margins.
BT-DUBS, if anyone is using Microsoft Word on PC, the bottom and top margins may say 1 inch, but you may notice it's much larger than that. Change that to .8 and it will actually measure 1 inch. Make sure to turn off widows/orphans and keep with next, as well.
1.25" margins are DEFAULT, but I don't think that's considered standard for academic papers and the like. MLA calls for 1". My margins for my apps will all be 1", for shiz.
I'm pretty sure Word 2007 and after now defaults margins to 1"...since that 1.25 business was just silly and counter to MLA/what-everybody-wanted.
I read that Reference Season blog entry and now I'm fretting. The author writes, "New college grads were not taken very seriously except in cases of brilliance." (He was part of the selection committee at Ohio State.)
I am crossing my fingers that that isn't true across the board-- I hope that my relatively young age (I'm 21) and lack of life experience (college senior) isn't in and of itself something that would have committees reject me.
Re: Texas
approximately 30 pages? What does that mean?
Is 34 pages excessive?
Is 27 too little?
@ j:
I wouldn't call 34 excessive for a request of approximately 30 pages, nor 27 too little.
Two stories that are between 12 and 18 pages, I'd say, is within reason.
@ Jami:
I wouldn't freak out. It's not as if they don't bother to read your writing sample if you're a graduating senior. I'm sure, though, that most recent grads as a rule tend to be less qualified than older writers (which just makes sense in terms of experience).
He even pointed out that ultimately the most important factor is the writing sample. So fret not!
Thanks for the advice Courtney.
So, has anyone else just totally misused a word and only found out about it after they sent in an application?
If so, list the word.
Me: artless, incursion
I used incursion for excursion and artless's 3rd definition of "without art" in a sentence that might suggest its first definition of "unadorned"
@ Iowa applicants who have filled out the GradAward sheet
What did you circle in that boxed section that asks: Acad. Yr. --1st Sem. --2nd Sem. --Sum. 20 ___ 20___
Not quite sure what they are asking here.... Thanks!
@ thereandbackagain
I did the same thing as x!
Pointless rant: Okay, so I sent in my Pittsburgh and Iowa apps on the same day (December 1st-- I know, cutting it close) and the post office said they'd get there by the 4th. Well, my handy-dandy tracking number told me that while Iowa is indeed in the hands of the... Iowans, my Pittsburgh app has yet to arrive, and it's due the 10th! Much wringing of the hands ensues. The website says it's at the Pittsburgh post office, though, so hopefully it will get there tomorrow...
*and* my third recommender is still MIA!
Yes!
Thanks people, 1.8 spacing and 1" margins did the trick. Had to fool around with paragraphing a little bit, but finally got 30 down to 25.
@ Kaushik-
Very impressive! I was too scared to do the same thing and instead was forced to cut bits out, to my great chagrin.
@ j:
Artless is a toughy. I only know its first definition from studying for the GRE.
Who knew artless was kind of a good thing, eh? Like unaffected. Or without pretenses.
Alas, if they like you're writing, I don't think it will matter.
I definitely had a huge typo in my SOP for UC-San Diego. Like HUGE. Oh, well. It happens. No use crying over spilt milk and all that.
Out of curiosity, how many fiction applicants are turning in a novel excerpt?
I'm using a novel excerpt + a short story for my sample.
Yeah, I'm not sweating it. There's a short story by Ha Jin called "English Professor" where the narrator turns in a thesis or something with the words "Respectly yours" and spends the story obsessing about it. It's a funny story for writers who stress about such things.
So you guys don't think it's cheating to use Georgia font size 11, do you? I saw someone on here promoting Georgia. Georgia 11 is almost the same as Times 12, but cuts a LOT of space.
Do you think this is cool with most schools (ie the ones that don't specify font)?
"for writers who stress about such things"
--see, I assume, 99.999% of writers, including myself
@j
I was the one promoting Georgia 11.5 or 11. So...no, I don't think it's cheating. ;) Others might disagree. It really doesn't look any smaller than Times, does it?
@ Jami - not sure where you heard that about new college grads not being taken seriously, but I wanted to step in. I'm in my first year in nonfiction at OSU and I came straight from undergrad -- and I am certainly not brilliant. There are also a few other people in the program (spread out over the three years; I think there's only one other first year) who came straight from undergrad. It's not the norm, no, but I think that has more to do with the fact that most applicants take time off, and less to do with a "rule" that graduating college seniors aren't taken seriously.
@J
I can't believe you actually went back and read things you've already submitted. I'm not nearly brave enough to do that. Ignorance truly is bliss. What's done is done!
@ Iowa applicants re: the GradAward sheet.
What did you put under Career Objective:
College Teaching _______
Other________
My objective is not to become a teacher, will this work against me? And did anyone else write something in "other"?
Thanks!
@ Louise
i put yes for teaching and i filled in other with publishing/editing. don't really know what they are hoping for though . . .
@j, re: "artless"
The SOP I submitted to the early deadlines used the word "execute"-- as in, to carry through-- with regard to my writing. But just a few days ago, with only two applications left, I suddenly got an image in my head of chopping the head off my writing, and changed the word. Blergh.
Best Application process: Cornell and Columbia College.
Worst Application process: Colorado by far.
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