I think that one of the points Kealey is trying to make when advising people not to be so focused on faculty is that a/you don't know if that faculty member is a good teacher, b/you don't know how often they will be teaching when you are there, c/you don't know they will actually be there when you arrive, d/you don't know if you will get along with that faculty member. One of my mentors wound up working with someone whose poetry was nothing like hers (and whose work she didn't particularly like or get), yet she learned more from him than well-known "names" who didn't like her work even though they wrote like her.
Faculty on the selection committee often hand pick who they want to work with. Just say the person who likes you is not someone you mention. But someone who did like your writing and wants you in the yes pile is not mentioned. It's not that their feelings are hurt, but that they probably wont' fight as hard for you or that it might be what tips the hat to another person. I think because these spots are so competitive often little things become the tie-breakers.
But even if you don't buy that, do consider the fact that a lot of the 'faculty' of any given program either don't teach or barely teach. Faculty also changes a lot. Saying one of the reasons you want to go to X University is because of John Smith, might hinder you if John Smith is on sabbatical, is a 'figurehead' faculty, or is leaving the program at the end of this year. It's not that anyone will be insulted, but that your talking about a faculty member in that case becomes a moot point at best, or at worst will give the hand to someone else who focuses on other aspects of the program.
Salman Rushdie is a 'professor' at my undergrad alma matter. He gives lectures to the public, visits classrooms from time to time, etc. But doesn't teach any class and is rarely even in town. But you'd never know that from the website. If someone wrote an SOP talking about how they wanted to work with him, it would be sort of laughed at within the department. Yet, the applicant would technically have no way of knowing what a joke it would be. Yes, if the applicant was stellar and out of this world, they'd get in anyway. But the SOP wouldn't do them any favors, in fact it might be a bit of a negative because it shows a lack of understanding of how these things work.
@Todd - You can have him :D. Just kidding. Bulldogs are funny and cute, but they're pretty smelly and bull-headed. He's a tooter... I personally think that mutts are way better dogs. Super loyal and sweet and low-maintenance. My bullie wants what he wants, when he wants it, come hell or high water.
@All - anyone else feeling crushing doubt? It's my second story that I'm most worried about. I just think it was a little ambitious, like maybe I should have gone with a safer bet. I don't know how to articulate what exactly that means, but I just feel like it's a little atypical and that many programs want writers that they're comfortable with; writers they know where to go with. I'm worried that they won't "get" it and won't like it or that they'll take it as a little melodramatic. Hrm.
I feel like I'm not good enough, that my SOP typo will doom me, that my GRE score will doom me, that the poems I picked for my sample are all wrong, that my SOP is just bad in general, that my LoRs will actually be terrible because my former professors secretly want to sabotage me, and that my rejection letters will follow me around and be visibly chalked on my face.
And then I think about how fun it would be to get accepted into XYZ school and get excited and giddy and then I realize I probably won't get into XYZ school because I'm not good enough...and the cycle starts all over.
This is the worst part of this process, too. Well, that is unless you don't get accepted anywhere. That's definitely the worst (I can attest). But at least in that case you have closure. I hate not knowing! Literally, I have zero expectations. I have no idea if I'll get accepted anywhere, let alone a top program. That's good and bad. I feel like I'm pissing in the dark :( I think I may have used that saying before, haha.
Who besides me is fully expecting to be rejected from 100% of their schools?
Of course I'm hopeful that I'm wrong. But knowing the odds...even though I believe I'm good enough and all, I just fear that I will get all rejection letters. And it will be such a blow...how do you really prepare yourself for major rejection like that?
I think Seth's blog said that 1 in 4 applicants gets in nowhere. That means that 75% get in somewhere. Not bad odds...but still, I'm so scared.
Pensive - I'm choosing to repeat in my head over and over that I have no idea what will happen and I advise doing the same for you (easier said than done, I know). The truth is, there is no way to determine what will happen after all of this. It's pretty much a crap shoot, given that everyone has different preferences for what they like and what they think has "potential" and who they want to work with. But, if it can work against you it can also work in your favor. So hope on. I hear you on the doubt, though. I'm going through that right now :(
I was waitlisted at three places (pretty low on all three, though) and was obviously not admitted off the WS anywhere. It hurt initially, but it wore off pretty quickly. Honestly, it wasn't so much the rejection as it was the loss of money (and the fact that I had to return to my job, blah). I just can't keep blowing close to $1000 for this every year. It really, seriously means nothing at all about your potential as a writer. It may mean that you weren't ready that year (that's what it meant for me), but other than that, don't take it as a sign. Keep trudging. Writing is mostly about growing and persevering.
That's my mantra, too, Katie Oh...I'm applying to schools that I want to go to, so even if only one accepts me, that's all I need.
And Kaybay, you're right. I am telling myself not to give up, and that getting an MFA or not should not decide whether or not I keep writing.
I'm really lucky to have an amazingly supportive husband. He loves my writing and refers to me as a writer and really believes in my talent. It means so much to me. I guess my self-confidence blows, but at least I have him!
I think I sometimes walk a pretty thin line between being a realist (which is good) and being a defeatist (not so good).
Has anyone applied to ODU yet? I'm a big confused about their application instructions. The MFA site makes it sound like there is a paper application, but the application website is purely online. Also, I don't see any "page six" on the application. :/ Would love to hear from someone who has some experience navigating ODU! :) Thanks!
I am planning on applying to ODU, but I haven't done so yet. However, I too am super confused about the process. I emailed someone there a while back but no one got back to me. My guess is that the paper application is way out of date; for example, it lists the app fee as $40, when it's $50 now. Hmm, one sec — I just checked my notes and it's riddled with questions and notes to myself to follow up with these people. For example, there's supposed to be the AIGFA, which is a funding application? No clue where to find that. There's also conflicting addresses for where to send materials! Not cool.
I have a kind of silly question. So, saying we get accepted into multiple places (*quadruple crosses fingers for all y'all), how much time do we get to choose? From what I understand, some schools notify as early as late January/early February, while others won't until April. How does this work? Is it like applying till regular college, where they all have pretty much the same deadline that you have to let them know by? Or do they give you, say, two weeks to tell them?
I'm just confused as to how it works, since each school wants a specific number of spots. Say they tell their top 12 people. They can't just wait forever for those 12 people to respond, right, because not all of them will accept and they need to know *exactly* how many do and don't before going on to the next person down the line? It's not like college where they accept a bunch of people and they can't really control how many decide to attend or not.
My understanding is that you have until April 15th, no matter what. They may tell you they want a decision sooner, but you have until then to let them know. This is a universal date for the schools, as I understand it.
It also depends on the school. Some schools sign the GSSR (or whatever it is, haha) stating that they will provide students until the 15th of April to declare. If the school didn't sign it, they are not obligated to give you time. Last year UNC Wilmington told an applicant that she had two weeks to make a decision before they pulled her funding (!) and it caused a bit of a ruckus. Most schools, however, have signed the form (contract? Petition? What is it?!) and give you the time.
I didn't see things quite the same way you did. To me it was never faculty v. funding. They were two separate pieces of advice. Advice piece #1: this degree isn't going to make you rich (like business school and law school), so it's wise not to go in debt for it. And then when talking about the SOP advice piece #25: You might want to avoid talking about faculty, unless you talk about ALL faculty, so that you don't risk leaving anyone out.
I don't think he's trying to say look at funding, not faculty, which it seems like is what you took it to be. But to be honest, faculty rates fairly low on my own criteria. I trust that good programs can and will draw good faculty members and certainly some schools rank higher on my list because of certain faculty members. However, being a good writer and being a good teacher have no correlation. You can be one and not the other, there is no link. The ideal is someone who happens to have both skill sets. I've experienced twice being VERY excited to work with certain writers who had work I loved, who seemed like intelligent, thoughtful, charismatic people who were dedicated to helping young/new writers, but ended up being awful teachers. Reading their essays, etc gave no indication of this. But it was actually really hard to experience this with someone I really looked forward to. I know this experience will happen again and again in my life, and I also know I will find some incredible mentors. But I've learned it is impossible to tell who will fall which way even if you do all the reading. The only thing that might give insight is testimonial from other students.
My biggest writing mentor is someone who writes drastically differently than I do. Based on his writing, I would not have thought he was the best person to work with me. But he has helped me leaps and bounds. Part of being a good teacher is helping people even if their strengths are different.
Anyway, I respect that you play a greater emphasis on faculty than I do. But I don't think Tom or anyone else thinks faculty and funding should be in direct competition or comparison.
Many people need the funding in order to be able to go at all. Those that don't are lucky and certainly have some other options.
weird. my comments keep disappearing after i get responses. anyways, I think I presented my opinion. and I realize the dissent to what I have to say. But I know that I feel very intimidated by Kealey's advice that writing about faculty will hurt you, because he knows a lot more about this than I. However, I do think it's important to be authentic in your application, and for me, that consisted of discussing faculty as a part of my purpose for application, if I feel that I need to discuss them. And I feel, that maybe there are others like I who feel this way, but are reluctant to do so because of Kealey's advice and I just wanted to remind people that he even says that it is just his opinion, and not any sort of general opinion held among the programs and faculty.
It's tricky. There's definitely no science, and I don't think Kealey's book is meant to be a science. But because this process seems far more subjective than a lot of other grad school processes and because there is so little information out there it's easy for Kealey's book to become a golden rule kind of thing, which I don't think is it's intention. It is in fact, a hand book, not a rule book or a user's manual. But, it's the only one, so it's sort of become a user's manual for some.
Ultimately it's important to be true to yourself and do what you feel comfortable with. And I don't think anyone will argue otherwise.
But I do think it's important to realize that Kealey's advise about faculty was a very small piece of his over all advice. Certainly the advice to take funding came out loud and strong. And I know people who have ignored that advice and are fine with it. But I think for some others it resonates.
Tom and Seth (who sometimes contributes here) both have a ton of great suggestions, but ultimately they are just suggestions.
FWIW, Tom and I agree on a lot of things, but not everything. I value faculty a great deal (as does Tom), my view is simply that valuing faculty doesn't necessarily translate into using an over-simplified system for determining which faculty will be the best mentors. You have to consider things like student-to-faculty ratio, faculty investment in teaching (as reported by his/her current students), how frequently the faculty member actually teaches, their openness to working with students with dfferent styles (rather than merely seeking an acolyte), and so on.
I think a lot of people believe a particular consideration (like faculty) is being dismissed solely because others don't analyze that consideration the same way. Side note: The reason not to menton specific faculty in your SOP is because it suggests you have absolutely no idea what happens in an MFA program and therefore are not prepared to be admitted to one. MFA students work with whole faculties, and they don't (in the end) get to choose their mentors. Things happen organically or not at all. An SOP that makes it seem the applicant has one mentor in mind reveals a simplicity of thought that would worry most adcoms. It might also suggest a certain stubbornness in looking at and thinking about one's own aesthetic, and/or a tendency to emulate rather than innovate--both of which are not the sort of conclusions you want adcoms to draw.
P.S. I didn't mean that to sound as harsh as it came out. The SOP isn't going to be the deciding factor in anyone's application, of course. My point was just that avoiding mentioning faculty in an SOP is not making a value judgment about the importance of faculty, but an acknowledgment of how the MFA works as a degree--something it's important for applicants to know, and which adcoms want to know you know, even if it doesn't ultimately decide (as I said) how anyone's app is received. --S.
I think you've made some good points about why you shouldn't discuss faculty. I do think there are some advantages to discussing faculty in terms of talking about interests in pursuing a diverse perspective in the MFA program (not necessarily seeking faculty that you admire for similarity, but admire for difference, and therefore, challenging your own aesthetics).
I have a somewhat old version of the MFA Handbook, so I'm not sure what the newer editions say about this topic. But in the version that I own, it writes off faculty discussion as a bad idea based on the fact that you might hurt a faculty members feelings if they read your app. and you didn't discuss them (something along those lines), which seems plausible, but also seems to determine faculty temperament as childish.
FWIW, I actually think the temperament of many MFA faculty is childish. Remember, they're working poets and writers just like us -- which in some instances means they're passionate to excess, stubborn, self-involved, egotistical, hot-headed, &c... some of them suffer from addictions, just like poets and writers out in the community do. To think of them as being like History professors would be unwise. Pettiness is definitely on occasion in play in MFA apps, I'm sorry to say. I wish it were otherwise. If Tom's advising special care in dealing with CW adcoms, it's because they're made up entirely of artists, and if you haven't found out yet you will soon that one always needs to tread a little carefully around artists (if one's primary goal is not to offend, I should say... :-)
S.
P.S. For those asking, the acronym for the April 15th Resolution is "CGSR."
It is two AM here in San Francisco, and I am reading the old mailbags from February-April of last year. Why am I doing this to myself? It is utterly pointless.
@kaybay, I enjoyed reading your posts from last year and I doubly wish you luck this year!
Does anyone know if George Mason's deadline is postmarked or received by?
Just got Michigan done! Merry Christmas to me.
Also, here's a cute story, talking to my nephew: Him: You're applying to 18 schools, right? And none of them are going to let you in? Me: Well, some might let me in, if they like my writing. Him: Well then, you'd better try and write pretty neatly.
On the application itself there is space for "a brief summary of your research and/or teaching experience" as well as "a statement concerning your proposed program of graduate study. In your statement, you should address such matters as areas of interest, your plans for development, and (for applicants to research master's and doctoral programs) possible thesis or dissertation topics." Which makes it sound like a separate SoP and teaching statement. However, according to the LSU MFA application instructions applicants are advised: "The 'brief statement' requested on your Graduate School application should be about 500 words long. Write about yourself and your interests, your research and reading interests, and your experience as a teacher (if any). Add any further information that you consider relevant for a consideration of your qualifications for this award."
My question: should I upload the same doc for both or do I need to make a separate teaching statement, even though I've included that info on my SoP?
I wish I could help. I'm TOTALLY confused by LSU's application. It's my only one left and right now I'm dealing with it by ignoring it, which probably isn't wise. My goal is to have it done by Wednesday. I'll let you know if I figure things out. But do let me know if you figure things out. I wish they just had a simple checklist.
We will be done with this applying thing soon, right?
Working on Michigan (finally). I *will* get the biographical statement draft done tonight.
After that, unless I hear from LSU or a couple of other places that I need to write an additional statement or whatever, I'll be done with all 20 MFA applications! Then, I'll just have 2 statements of purpose to write for the 2 remaining MA Lit programs. The light! I see it!
I dropped three of my application packets (Iowa, Flordia, and UCI) in a blue box and now, I'm somehow terrified that they won't actually be delivered, that I picked a somehow dead blue box that will probably not be checked for months.
I'm losing my mind, right? I mean, I've already had my bad luck with USPS, how much more can I take?
so long as the blue box is a tardis, you'll be aces. (sorry, i'm watching doctor who.) i'm sure it will be fine. (i'm also having iowa anxiety - no movement on my delivery notification since i dropped it off at my post office. :/)
I'm such an idiot I really should have mailed with a confirmation slip and number just to give myself peace of mind. But I was like 'no, these things are here for a reason.'
@thereandback - when did you send your app? I got my Iowa "receipt" on Thursday and I sent my sample in early December (I think??). Soooo, moral of the story, it should be sent within three weeks I would presume. Maybe because of the holidays and because more people send apps later than earlier, it would be a little delayed.
I'm opting not to worry about anything sent in the mail, not that I don't understand your worry. Last year I didn't get any update from UF and had to just hope that they got it (they did). You won't get a response from them (love that program to pieces, but they don't respond EVER). So, just have hope and don't stress. As much as possible.
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I mean the delivery confirmation from the post office. It's like it just fell off the radar after I handed it to them. Weird.
I have not been on the up and up of things and haven't even figured out how to check the status of my application on any of my school's websites! Instead... I've been obsessively watching season 8 of 24 on DVD. May I say that this is the third season I've watched over this Christmas break? It's basically the only thing I've done besides grad school stuff. I need a life.
The morning of the 23rd I awoke with the most agonizing pain in my tummy ever. I have a history of these pains (has happened intermittently for the last 3 or 4 years). Usually, though, it only lasts for about an hour or two. I've been to the ER for it before and they're usually totally useless...but when I had been writhing and crying in the bed for about 30 hours...Mom was like... "time to go." So we went to the ER. Found out I had terrible gallstones and pretty much the worst gallbladder infection they'd ever seen, so it needed to be removed asap.
Christmas Eve = gallbladder removal.
Basically, I've been in recovery, and haven't been able to work on my applications due in the next few days, which is soooo annoying! And none of the pain pills are as good as the Dilaudid they shot me up with at the hospital.
God Courtney, that sounds terrible! I'm so sorry! What a way to spend the holidays. I was just about to make a post about how little conversation is happening on this blog and then you posted that. Not what I was looking for :(
Is anybody else having trouble paying the app fees for UVA? The payment site refuses to load for me (TRAIKlix or something like that). I've tried it in Chrome and Firefox.
It's frustrating because I'll have to wait till Jan 2 to get a response from UVA. Any help would be appreciated.
Florida State: does anybody know how many stories or how long the writing sample can be for florida state? Their page says: applicants to the creative writing program should submit 10 poems, a story, or a chapter from a novel. a bit confusing. any help i'd appreciate. thanks!
Thank god for this blog. I finished my applications and everything mid November (though I have to say, not having anything to do near the deadline isn't much better - I'm still freaking out a little). But what I HADN'T thought of was a little thank you present for the referees. *smacks forehead* Of course, I did the utterly improper thing and offered to pay for sending the reference letters out (the two that needed to be couriered, anyway). So... yeah, (wibble)tankoo(/wibble). *considers thank you gifts now*
Also, @Leanne, it was way back that you posted the thing about the certification of finances and stuff. I'm in the same boat, international student and really not capable, in any manner, of signing a statement saying I can (or my parents can) pay $48000. The only school I'm having a problem with in this respect now is Mills, because they appear to want the certification of finances document signed before the application can even be considered complete. I wrote to them about it, and was told that they'll see what they can do, but that was over a week back.
Oh, and Mills' deadline WAS December 15, but evidently now they've pushed it to January 15, which is also a little annoying because I spent a sleepless night or two completing their stipend app, which required 4 essays and I have to say they're all utterly the pits - but anyway. While all other colleges would want the document in question signed later (as long as there isn't funding, that is), they want it done before the application -- so, really, does anyone have a clue how to circumvent this? Or should I cut my losses and dish out another $50 or something to apply to another school. >_<
Oh, and on a totally random note, with reference to Seth's response to Stephen up there *points*, History professors can also be childish, utterly whingy, petty, self-obsessed, egotistical, socially incompetent and bitchy. Two years of a Masters in History in what's meant to be one of the best departments in my country taught me that no group of people can exist without an undercurrent of, well, poop.
I avoided mentioning professors in my SOP unless there was a course I was SPECIFICALLY looking forward to, and in that case too, I think I only mentioned the course.
Just thought I would drop off a few stories of my application process, which has been ongoing since May, I think, because I'm a paranoid overthinker who wants to get into a good program so, so badly.
I started contacting professors in May, as I was going on a roadtrip in my school bus and I'd hoped to schedule meetings with some of them. Met with someone at Portland State, who was so helpful and honest, and mostly told me to look elsewhere as their lack of funding made an MFA nearly pointless. Various other contacts proved great, like at Chatham and Wyoming, who seemed simply ecstatic to share in my enthusiasm (and verbosity), or interesting, such as at Michigan, where I found one professor telling me that he loved my email and spectrum of interest, but that wouldn't amount to squat because the odds of admittance were so bad. The worst came from Irvine, whose director was so tardy in response that I finally just submitted my application online, only to hear back from him a week later, saying, "hey, your interests don't align with us. Don't apply."
I've had Oregon tell me I had to redo my entire application because they revamped their system, and though I had one recommender sending from as far as Italy, Wyoming completely ignored those snailmailed letters and are making me ask the recommenders to just email them instead. Embarrassing.
Cornell's application process was refreshingly easy, but too bloody expensive. Chatham's was free, and everyone there is nice and eager, which I LOVE! Michigan's campus is the nicest I've ever seen, and the Dobie House at U of Texas manages to contradict the charmless sprawl of the Austin Campus.
My list is as follows: Michigan Texas LSU Chatham Indiana Syracuse Cornell San Francisco State Wyoming Oregon Iowa
Wish I hadn't applied to Iowa...only did that because I wanted the challenge. I'm gunning for well-funded programs with room for interdisciplinary study, specifically with room for Italian and Cinematic courses.
Why is this comment so long? I look forward to reading all of your updates, and wish EVERYONE the best of luck! I hope we all get in somewhere!
i hope everyone's apps are going well (especially in the midst of holiday busy-ness...)
i was wondering what everyone's take on this would be (and i also just want to rant a bit, admittedly). i planned to finish editing my writing sample by dec 24th, so i could mail it off and it would arrive on time for the jan 1 deadline. (thank god only two schools i'm applying to want samples via mail). i mailed them by regular mail, but then remembered how the public holidays would mean the whole process would be delayed. so i mailed them *again* today via express, only for the post office employee to say that they *still* might not get there on time, after i had already paid. (from the very beginning told him i needed the documents to get there by jan 1, i wish he had told me it wasn't guaranteed at the beginning...)
anyway, i'm considering sending the documents yet *again* by overnight post or something like that to make sure they actually get there by the deadline. it would be so stupid for them to throw out my application completely because something got in a couple days late. and i've already spent a lot on this, so what's a bit more? at the same time though, i don't want to have to pay again when one or both of the copies i sent earlier might get there after all. i'm not sure what i should do but i have to decide quick.
ugh. i guess they have their reasons, but it bothers me to no end to think about how applicants have to go through all this time and expense when the administrative staff could just receive everything online and print it out with just a click of a button.
Leanne - have you thought about contacting the program and asking if they can be a little lenient on the arrival of your sample, given that you've tried? It might not work, but it's worth a shot.
Eric - why did Irvine tell you not to apply? That's pretty crazy...
Are you sure your schools have receive by and not postmark by deadlines? Of my 14 schools, only one had a receive by deadline, the rest were all 'postmark by' which means you're fine.
Also, I would hesitate to overnight, only because that means someone has to sign for it and I doubt anyone is in the office right now and scheduling a 're-delivery' can be annoying and difficult.
thanks guys. i should double-check the post mark thing but you're probably right. i don't remember any school i looked at specifying a "received by" date. i'm also going to send them an email.
i guess we all get a little panicking when it comes to applications... :x
1. there's an essay i have to write if i want to be eligible for a research/publishing assistantship at UNCW. any tips for this? it's the only school i'm applying to that requires something outside of a teaching or personal statement. i guess something like a cover letter, addressing previous experience and what i hope to do there?
2. i'm really getting cracking on my SOP. if anyone is up for reading it over within the next couple of days, i'd be so grateful and will totally read something over for you in return. shoot me a line at leanne[dot]mirandilla[at]gmail[dot]com
@blob someone does not have to be there to sign for it. the post office gives you that option, but you are able to decline it. i did that with almost all of my applications last year, and they all arrived without any difficulties.
For overnight deliveries the signature is required, but not for 2-3 day delivery. They may tell you have an option, but the postman will still ask for a signature. I've experienced the confusion first hand. I'm sure it works correctly sometimes, but it's worth avoiding doing the holidays.
ok. but i sent 13 apps last year and ten were overnight. they all arrived w no complications. i have sent many materials this year overnigt. again, all departments have confirmed the arrival of all materials.
It's certainly not a fight. But my overnight application, which was also sent 'without signature required' did require a signature and ended up being held. I've also been on the receiving end of the same situation several times at work.
Having said that, if it works great, and people should go for it. But given that I have experienced problems in the past, it just seems like if there are other options, those should be used first, that's all I'm saying.
and. i have had my brother who lives across country send me overnight material. he waved the signature. and i always found it sitting their on the door step. so. maybe you've just been unlucky. signature is not required. any postman who has any exp - has brought mail hundreds of times to the universities - a lot of that "overnight." he/she knows a sig would be rediculous to obtain.
Leanne, I am in the same boat as you, except my situation is complicated even further by living overseas and having to use Interfolio for all my deliveries. On Monday, I was planning to send an application overnight or two-day so that it would be received before Dec. 31, but the only overnight and two-day options Interfolio gives is Fed Ex, which not only requires a signature but also won't deliver to a PO box. I didn't learn this last lovely detail until I entered the address (which is a PO box) and mailing with Fed Ex didn't show up as an option. So, i just sent the darn thing priority mail, which is supposed to take 3 to 5 days. Maybe no one is there in the admissions right now to see exactly when the applications arrive anyway. Well, that's what I'm hoping. Anyway, just wanted to whine about that.
Kaybay, I wrote the program director a long email (as I do to all programs) introducing myself, saying, "hey, this is what I'm looking for: could you refer me to any faculty that might share in such specific interests?" This director (Andrzej Warminski) just responded with honesty, saying, "we have nothing here for a student like you, so apply elsewhere." It was shockingly succinct, particularly considering how thorough and kind a rep from even Michigan was to me, but I do appreciate that he was so honest. At the same time, I had already submitted my online application and the $70 or whatever, so I wish I could get that back, but I figured fuck it, I cut my losses - I'll spend that time on other schools.
P.S. LSU's application really is confusing...it wouldn't be difficult for them to change a few words on the website to make it easy. They hardly say on there what's required, and I only recently realized that they needed a general LSU app submitted in addition to the departmental one. As a screenwriter, they asked me for a "substantial portion of a script." What the hell is that? I just sent the whole thing.
Is the MFA application process more involved, with less payoff, than any other graduate program? Or are they all like this?
i imagine this is sort of a silly question, but i'm looking to get a BFA in creative writing. i can't find very much on "top programs" as far as BFAs go; my research yields mostly MFA rankings. (indeed, even when others ask about BFAs, the MFA rankings come out.) while i anticipate getting my MFA at some point, i do need undergrad completed first. is it safe to assume that if it has a good MFA program, the undergrad program is decent as well? or do they tend to not correlate? how important is undergrad in the long run?
There are lots of schools that have great undergrad writing programs, but do not have MFA programs. So just looking for good MFA programs may not be the best bet. I also assume that there are some schools where MFA faculty don't teach undergrads, so the primary resources go to the MFA.
But ultimately, I would say that undergrad really doesn't matter. Find schools you like and then see if they have undergraduate creative writing. But you don't need a undergrad degree in CW or even in English to apply, though it might help you produce some writing.
Just as an FYI, UCSB has a undergraduate 'creative school' which accepts students either for studio art, music, or creative writing as undergrads and gives them sort of a 'grad school' like experience. I applied and got in as an undergrad. The program seemed lovely, the campus is breath-taking, the dorms were literally on the beach, the creative school kids got the same perks as the honor kids. Ultimately, it wasn't for me because I really wanted more of a liberal arts experience than I thought that would give me. But it might be a good fit for you.
Your question is a fairly loaded one and and also touches on the often misguided question asked by parents of how useful is a degree in XYZ in the "real world"? While looking at undergrad programs at the same schools that house MFAs is a good start, you should double check to make sure that MFA faculty work with undergrads and not just grad students (if this is important to you.). Some colleges and universities also devote a fair amount of resources to undergrad literary publications which is also a good sign of a vibrant undergrad CW scene [Try searching through the Duotrope.com database of journals]. In most cases, MFA faculty will teach undergrads as part of their teaching responsibilities. On the flip side, some schools like Princeton have CW programs that are focused completely on the undergrad student body.
I'm not sure if this is your first undergraduate degree or not, but I think you should also consider the weight (perceived or actual) a BFA carries vs. a BA or a B.S on a resume and how much flexibility you would have in terms of exploring other interests (artistic or academic) at an art school vs. a liberal arts college or university. In other words, give yourself options to spread your wings. In the grand scheme of things, what is said on your diploma doesn't really matter so much as the culmination of experiences you had at a particular institution. Also, most MFA programs don't require that you have majored in English and/or Creative Writing, so I don't think you should feel obligated to go the English/ CW route esp. if you have other interests you would like to explore.
Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas! I finished my applications last week and have been trying to give my brain a rest, though it's always floating in the back of my mind, that constant nervousness. Just curious, we are supposed to start hearing back from schools starting in mid-February right? As far as the FAFSA, I'm as confused as everyone else. It was my impression that we can't start the FAFSA until we receive our tax forms in January, but I wasn't planning to wait until I hear back from schools to start it. It may take schools a while to determine financial aid/funding and the FAFSA, I would imagine, plays a role in determining that. If schools are slower with their decisions, we won't have a whole lot of time before we have to give a decision and worrying about the FAFSA in the midst of all that seems like it would be stressful. I think we can just start as soon as we get those tax statements, so I'm probably going to do it as soon as I can and send it to all schools to which I applied. I've done zero research on this and am a total novice, though, so I could be totally wrong. If anyone has the info on that, feel free to correct me!
In regards to the discussion about funding/faculty, I didn't read into it that they were in competition of one another either. In my SOP, I was nervous about mentioning specific faculty and ended up avoiding it all together in favor of other draws of that particular program and why I felt I belonged there. If faculty is at the top of your list of most important aspects, I can see why you might comment on it, but I can also see how doing so and having it read by the wrong person wouldn't do you any favors (i.e. if there's some inter-departmental tensions). Personally, funding is at the top of my priority list. I told myself that I would only go if I got decent funding to do so. I'd rather work another year, save money, and reapply than take out more massive loans. I went to a pricey undergrad and think of an MFA as the opportunity to have a few years of uninterrupted time where all I do is work on writing, but not if it means being buried under lots more loans. I'm sure many of you feel that way. I'm just as serious about the pursuit and the work that it requires, and want it work out as ardently as anyone else, but the practical part of me has an eye on the future and wants to make sure I act reasonably. But boy is it going to be hard to turn down an acceptance from my dream school if I happened to get in without funding. Hope I don't have to make that decision, but could totally happen.
Just had a dream that I received a manuscript back from UCLA (or some other southern California school that I didn't apply to) with a note saying, "I'm sorry, but we cannot read this manuscript." Why, you ask? Because my mother had taped a $1 wrapped around a $20 on the inner flap of the envelope. Lovely.
Sarah, if you really want to get neurotic about notifications (I know I do!) you can check this website out. The earliest you're going to here from a traditional residency program is late January, usually the very last week. Good luck!
Oh my gosh, sorry guys!!! I can't believe it posted my comment 3 times and now I don't know how to erase 2 of them, haha. The computer at work kept giving me an error message, so I thought it didn't post and would keep pushing "publish comment." Ah well, technology doesn't like me.
And thanks KayBay, that's great! I do want to get neurotic, or rather, even more neurotic than I am currently.
I have a really URGENT question - I've couriered my writing sample for Syracuse but it hasn't been delivered because the department's closed until Jan 4th. However, the website says that writing samples need to reach them by Jan 1st. What do I do?
hey - is anyone here having trouble with Michigan's online recommendation system? My recommenders have all sent in their letters but only one got a confirmation; the other two say ''In Progress.''
One of my recommenders had the same issue. She was confused because apparently there were two forms or you had to submit twice or something that I didn't really get the whole gist of over email, but anyway, she submitted again and it was fine. Maybe send a one of the reminder emails so he/she can re-register or something?
Hope it all gets fixed. Michigan stressed me out because they had a hard deadline and their office was closed for the week before it, but I'm sure for a technical snag it's not a big deal.
I'm assuming the problem is that you've used a courier service and since the office is closed there's nowhere for them to leave the package?
If so, couldn't you just Express Mail the materials tomorrow or even Thursday? With the university closed for the holidays, nothing that's not already there is going to be in the physical office by 1/1, but one would think that just having it in the Syracuse mail stream by the first would be good enough.
Ah, didn't realize you were out of the country. If it were me, I'd consider doing a couple of different things. The first would be emailing the materials to someone I know and trust in the States and asking them very nicely to Express Mail it for me.
If that's not an option, I still wouldn't give up. Again, speaking only for myself and with no inside knowledge of SU and how understanding their staff may or may not be, I would simply have the courier deliver it when he university reopens on the 4th and send a brief and friendly email to Christopher Kennedy explaining your circumstances.
Let's be honest: no one is going to go through them prior to the 4th anyway. And if a program is so regimented that they won't make an exception for someone in your circumstances, especially since it wouldn't slow their process down one bit, I would probably figure it's not the right program for me.
Thank God I just read your post. I completely overlooked that bit about the January 1st deadline. However, reading the Syracuse website makes me think that this is the post-marked deadline. The wording is a little ambiguous: "...applicants must SUBMIT a writing sample on or before January 1st." That could indicate a postmark date, it could not. However, since they say they're closed, I think that as long as our samples are in the mail (and certainly on their doorstep when they return from break) we should be all set.
Hey, I had a conversation with my boyfriend last night after watching True Grit (which was awesome, by the way :D) about the value of an MFA. I'm curious, after that conversation, about what you all realistically expect to get out of it.
I know most people will say "time to write," but it seems you could find a menial job that pays more than most TA stipends that would afford you a decent amount of time to write and you would be able to focus on it since you wouldn't have to worry about your job. Have you tried working a less hectic job while focusing primarily on your writing? If so, how did it go?
Then there are those that say they want connections, an easier path to publishing, experience with journals, etc. Do you assume that you will be able to publish regularly and make a living writing or do you expect to return to your work and publish whenever you can. Do you expect a book deal? Do you expect to make a legitimate amount of money writing?
For those who want to teach at the collegiate level, do you think you will actually be able to procure those jobs, even though they are so limited? Do you actually want to teach because you love teaching or do you think academia seems like a comfortable place to be?
I'm not asking these questions to judge anyone who will answer yes to any of them. Frankly, I could answer yes to many of them. I wrote in my personal statements that I want teaching experience at a higher level, that I wanted experience with journals, that I wanted to work with writers and hone my craft. What did all of you say??
I wouldn't say I'm doubting the value of the degree, but I would love to have an honest, realistic, practical discussion about what everyone's long-term goals are. Human beings have a tendency to be short-sighted (guilty!), so I'd love to talk about what the hell we're all doing :P
Mary Oliver's response would be: “…if I was going to be a real poet – that is, write the best poetry I possibly could – I would have to guard my time and energy for its production, and thus I should not, as a daily occupation, do anything else that was interesting. Of necessity I worked for many years at many occupations. None of them, in keeping with my promise, was interesting” (A Poetry Handbook 120).
However, for me, surrounding myself with other writers and dedicating myself solely to the written word for (hopefully) 2 or 3 or 4 years is what I'm after. I'm not worried so much about the job market, mostly because I intend to get a PhD after my MFA (if not in conjunction with - c'mon Cornell!). And yeah, even with the PhD it may be hard to find a decent job, but by then who knows where I'll want to be. I'm just focusing on the present, and the fact that I've wanted to do this since I was a teen. Now I'm 40. It's time. I have been out of my undergrad for only a few months, and I've written a good amount (especially given that I have been working on these applications for what seems like FOREVER). I am lucky in that central Kentucky has a fantastic literary community. Something is always going on - classes, workshops, critiquing groups, readings, etc. And (!!!) the people here are genuinely supportive and welcoming of one another. Cool. So, yes. I could stay here (doing what I'm doing, which isn't exactly what I want to be doing workwise, but is close) and write a ton. But. I'm just not willing to compromise. Not yet.
None of that probably made sense, but it was a delightful distraction from the Michigan biographical statement which I'm still very much avoiding. :)
@kaybay: I'm definitely applying to the program first and foremost to buy time. Since I graduated from university a few years ago, I've worked a series of low-pressure jobs so I could save time for writing. In fact, a little over a year ago, I broke up with my boyfriend, moved 3500 miles away from my family and all my friends, and took a silly 9-to-5 reception job specifically to have time for my writing. And it helps, some, but realistically, once you factor in morning commute, tidying up the apartment, showering, eating, etc., I really only have 30-40 hours a week to write. That's just not enough. And, I mean, that's in a lifestyle with no relationships, not going out, no other hobbies -- things are pretty bare-bones over here.
With a funded graduate program, on the other hand, you're paid to teach, study and write. The whole forty hours a week of my life that are currently eaten up by the job that puts a roof over my head -- bang! Gone! I can spend them doing the thing I love, and maybe actually find a little time left to have a life. That's why I'm applying for an MFA program.
Then again, there's also the appeal of being able to socialize in and share work with a community of people who think constantly and critically about literature. Literary friends and ad hoc workshop groups are great, but what a blessing to have a few years to nurture what will hopefully become life-long professional relationships with people who are just as crazy as you are about literature.
Then again, I might be a little biased toward the ivory tower. After a few harrowing years in the real world (awful), my plan after an MFA program is to apply for creative writing PhD programs, then fellowships, then trying to get into professionally teaching on the collegiate level. In the years since undergrad, I've done a bit of teaching and tutoring and absolutely adore it. Between that and writing, I simply can't imagine a more exquisite life.
Anyway, mileage varies, but that's my two cents on why I'm applying.
I have in been working a low paying-low hours job (way less than TAing) since March, and it has given me incredible time to write and think and all of that. However, at this point my main connection to a writing community is a few friends scattered around and what I read. So a big part of getting an MFA for me is being around a community of poets. I do also plan to teach writing in some capacity after I graduate, but I think teaching writing is one of the things in the world I'm best at (which may not be saying much).
That being said, any money I make with my writing will be extra money as far as I'm concerned (the realities of poetry), which in some ways takes away a lot of the pressures of publishing, and makes it more about getting your work out there for people to read, which is the whole point in the first place.
Speaking as someone who just finished their first semester, here are my thoughts.
1) Have you tried working a less hectic job while focusing primarily on your writing? If so, how did it go?
Yes, but this path can be perilous esp. in the current economy. People in large metropolitan areas already have access to a vibrant, creative community but the trick is to balance the creativity with sustaining a reasonable day-to-day existence. I lived in San Francisco for several years after graduating and if you name a random job, chances are I probably did it at some point. Did I meet a lot of interesting people? Yes. Did I get a lot of writing done? Sort of. Did I grow as a writer? Probably. Was I stressed out about money? All the time. Draw Backs? I wondered about the poser/ wannabe vs. actual artist ratio and often wondered where I stood. Also, there were distractions 24/7. Positives? Really easy to network and meet very accomplished individuals. A lot of distractions. Working and writing made me cherish what little time I did have for writing and helped me strike a balance. The stress of trying to work as little as possible to support my writing led me apply to MFA programs.
2) Then there are those that say they want connections, an easier path to publishing, experience with journals, etc.
While there is something to be said about networking and knowing people (which can certainly happen outside of an MFA program), I don't think many would agree that an MFA in and of itself provides an easier path to publishing even for the best writes coming from the best programs. Sure, pedigree and connections can help to some extent and maybe crack open a door or two but at the end of the day it's all on your writing.
3) Do you assume that you will be able to publish regularly and make a living writing or do you expect to return to your work and publish whenever you can.
This sort of relates to what I really want to get out of my MFA. Publishing is hard for anyone. Rejection happens at all levels of a writers career. For me, it has historically taken me about a year to 1.5 yrs from conception to publication. A lot of that time is just letting a story "sit", so I can slowly make realizations about what I have written and chip and mold plot/ characters/ voice etc. to where it needs to be. I'd like to lessen that time. I'd like to be a better critic of my own writing without having to distance myself so much/ for so long from any given piece.
4) Do you expect a book deal? Do you expect to make a legitimate amount of money writing?
I certainly don't expect a book deal, but I hope to have completed and polished manuscripts ready to submit to agents and publishers by the time my 3 yrs are up (at least that's the grand plan). I don't think anyone expects to make a "legitimate" amount of money from writing alone. Sure, there are the small handful which make the big bucks w/ film rights to boot but even the likes of George Saunders has said that most of the writers of his generation are now supported by universities.
5) For those who want to teach at the collegiate level, do you think you will actually be able to procure those jobs, even though they are so limited?
This depends on publications. Most tenure-track (and even full-time temporary (year or more) gigs) require significant publication in the form of at least one book and/or a string of journal publications/ honors etc. Realistically, I'll probably apply to a few fellowships, a few Phd programs, and a few teaching jobs (even for Writing Centers, secondary schools, non-profit organizations etc.). There are a lot more jobs out there than people probably realize (that aren't necc. tied to CW but that the MFA degree helps prepare folks for.) Still, it's a jungle out there, and I'm planing on keeping my options open with regards to jobs and pursuing further degrees to make myself more marketable. It's a jungle out there.
6) Do you actually want to teach because you love teaching or do you think academia seems like a comfortable place to be?
A little of both. While writers flourish in all sorts of environments, I personally think that academia is a nice way of having your cake and eating it too. Arts non-profits/ community organizations are very attractive to me for similar reasons.
I pretty much agree with everyone who has just responded to the question of why we're doing this and what in the world we hope to get out of it. I have no illusions that getting the MFA will suddenly allow me to publish a book and become a famous author or have my pick of any top university teaching job, though I do hope that after the MFA I can go on for a PhD in Literature and have done well enough to find some kind of work as a teacher, whether that be at a university, a junior college, or what have you. Academics have always been a love of mine. I feel like that is my place, like I fit there like I don't fit in other industries. The happiest times in my life have been when I've been enrolled in classes where I'm learning something new and producing work that makes me proud.
It's been a long process coming to the decision to pursue the MFA. I've been out of undergrad for almost 4 years, and in that time have been bouncing around as a temp and as admins at various places. While you do have some time to write, spending 40 hours of your week answering phones is still a big chunk of time, and it is boring. Like Kat said, factoring in my 2+ hour commute everyday, plus meals and all the other errands and chores that come up, it's tough to find substantial writing time. I'm exhausted by 10pm from just the tedium of the day. For me, also, some part of the decision has been the desire to call myself a writer. I know you can be a great writer without ever pursuing a degree in it. Loads of people have done it. But personally, I want the small personal validation of knowing I'm professionally pursuing the thing that makes me happiest in the world, rather than being a secretary who writes sometimes on the side. I am not married, don't have kids, and figure if there is any time to uproot myself, this is that time.
In the end, the thing that pushed me over the edge with my decision, is that life is short, as cliche as it sounds, and I want to experience things that make me happy and feel fulfilled. I feel that even if the degree amounts to nothing - no jobs, no publishing opportunities, etc - the couple of years spent pursuing it and the things I will learn along the way will be worth it.
I've got to second Sarah's comment. I've been out of undergrad for 3 years. During that time I've worked in retail, and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling like it is super difficult to get into the right mind-set to write after an 8 hour day at work, whatever you do. Actually, retail was so horrible it ate up my entire day; I'd wake up dreading it, I'd be on my feet all day working, and at night I couldn't summon the energy to have fun, much less write. "Saving" my energies for the weekend wasn't great either. Tough to feel like you're a disciplined, productive writer when you feel like you've been "slacking" all week, creatively.
So, yes, my main reason for applying to MFA's besides the opportunity to learn, grow, and connect: time. And funding (money) literally equals time. Not that I expect things to be so much easier with a degree when I'm back in the workforce, but at least I'll have had those couple of years to improve and strengthen my writing.
Oh yes, I feel your pain. I worked in retail at one point too and it was fairly soul-sucking and was so awful that it would haunt my mind even when I wasn't at work. I would just be dreading the time I would have to go back. I dreamt of cash registers.
I had another job recently where I was filing all day. I thought to myself, what a great way to be working and then have my mind free to think about my book. No such luck. I felt like my brain was dead. I could not think creatively at all...it just wasn't conducive to it.
Yes. I used to call my workplace the Creative Void. I started as a cashier and switched to a different department where I had more autonomy and responsibility (read: more interesting things to do) but it was still your basic, spirit-whipping nightmare.
On my days off I would relish sitting down. Sometimes I'd write, but it seemed like my poems were a little tainted by how bitter I'd become...
On a happier note, I quit my job in order to apply to programs and it's made me so happy. Poor, but happy.
Honestly, I don't know. I don't know if I'll end up having to go back to a real world job. I don't know if I'll be able to make a writing life or if I'll find one of the elusive teaching jobs (though I really do love teaching and would happily teach high school, or gulp, maybe even middle school).
But what I do know is that if I don't go for my MFA I will spend the rest of my life wondering 'what if..?' and that's reason enough for me to go at with full confidence that it's the right thing.
I just received an email from Wash U. The subject was "MFA application for Washington University in St. Lois" (ha, just noticed the Lois), but the body read:
Your application for the Doctoral Program in English Literature at Washington University-St Louis has been received. Your file is complete. I wish you the very best as you search for the right program.
This is...interesting. I'm not sure what to make of it. I did not apply to the doctoral program. I thought I remembered the application asking if I was interested in a doctorate, and if so, I would have said yes, but I applied for the MFA only. I am wondering if they just forward this info on to the doctoral admissions committee or something...otherwise, the email makes no sense to me!
Oh well...anyone else get a similar message from Wash U?
I have to echo what blob said. I think it would be better to spend three years on the degree and say to myself "that wasn't really worth it" than never attend a program and feel like I should have gone.
My biggest fear is that I'll be more concerned with not having enough money that I'll be more focused on it than on the business at hand. I don't want to go into debt and while I know it's possible to not to, I do have two dogs, a car payment, and a student loan from undergrad (it's thankfully not that much, though). I guess it all depends on how much of a stipend I get (assuming I get in anywhere) and how much debt I'm willing to/have to go into.
I do want a few years to focus solely on my writing. Whether I grow at all as a writer from workshopping/faculty is yet to be determined, but I think the fact that everything centers around writing can only help.
Professionally speaking, I teach already, so whether I teach at the secondary or postsecondary level just depends, I guess. The degree might help me a teeny bit but it's certainly not going to guarantee me a job. Neither did my philosophy degree, though :D
I don't know, we'll just have to see what happens. I'm glad to see that you guys have thought this out so much. Not that I didn't think people would, but I'm glad to see that the passion is there without sacrificing a sense of being grounded. The comments help to make me feel better about still wanting to go, too :)
Oh, and blob, muahahaha about that link. It totally is evil, by the way. It makes the week of a notification about the most painful thing EVER. Last week of January is going to suuuuuuck because I'm pretty sure at least one of my schools will notify then and it would be the first week of the notification season. BUTTERFLIES!
On a funnier note, I thought it would be nice to share a funny anecdote: I was eating at Burger King today and saw a sign in the back directed to their employees saying the following:
NO:
side-talking side-working ROBOTS MAGIC WORDS
I SWEAR TO GOD it said that. Then the person I was having lunch with and I had quite the fun time trying to figure out what the hell that meant.
Good news on the undergrad student loan part anyway...I believe that your loans are deferred while you go on to attend school, so at least you won't have to worry about making monthly payments while doing the MFA. Then when you're done with your degree, you can just pick back up where you left off.
Sarah - that is good news about the loan. That's $50 a month I won't have to worry about :) I'm hoping to pay off my credit card debt so that I just have my car payment to worry about while I'm there. Still, that's $212 a month. Gulp. That's like a quarter of most stipends!!!
Most of me really wants the results, but a small part of me doesn't mind the waiting so much, because right now, before I've heard definitively, I can imagine/pretend that I'm accepted to all of them.
for me, the mfa is another chance to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. i get time to write, i [hopefully] get better at writing, i get teaching experience, i get to not pay off my student loans for 2/3 years, i get to make more connections... any one of those things is worth it on its own.
@the Pensive Monkey: I did receive a confirmation email from Wash U saying they'd received all my materials and that my file was complete, if that helps - but this was for the MFA, and they said so. I don't remember an option on their app for applying for a doctoral program, but if you clicked yes or whatever on something like that, maybe they upgraded your application.. which would be very odd.
@Kaushik: Good to know someone else from India is applying too! As for the deadline thing at Syracuse, unless the specifically say it's a "received by" deadline, I think the wording of it means mostly that it's just a postmark deadline. But (and I'm sure you've already done it) the best thing to do in a confusing situation is simply to write to them, tell them nicely and ask what can be done next (as opposed to, ya know, it can't be done it at all). Best of luck!
Pensive Monkey-- I got the same email from Wash U. I logged back into their apply online site and it had my name with MFA Writing on top of the page...so hopefully it's just a case of someone not cutting and pasting correctly? I hope?
While the waiting period begins, some of you might want to kill the time by sending stories/poems/essays out into the world. If you don't already know about it, take a look at Duotrope.com for a fairly comprehensive database of journals/magazines. [Some advice: The search functions can sometimes be misleading/ limiting, so it's a good idea to not search w/ a lot of criteria.] Additionally, there's a ranking compiled by writer Cliff Garstang which ranks journals according to Pushcart prize wins and special mentions. You can check the 10 yr rankings here and the 5 yr rankings here. Keep in mind that the Perpetual Folly rankings do not account for BASS, O. Henry, or other prizes, so just because a journal is ranked "low" doesn't necc. mean it is not competitive. In most cases, all of the journals listed are considered very competitive. Duotrope provides some statistics with regards to acceptance rates but perhaps one of the best ways to decide where to submit is to peruse a journal's website (or better yet pick up and issue) and see if you think your writing would be a good fit. Taking a look at contributor bios is also a good indication of where a journal may fall in the selectivity/ competitiveness spectrum (although my personal motto is to always start high).
And a plug for a friend of mine who has recently started a journal.
Prime Mincer is now open for submissions. The first print issue will be released in mid-March. Work (of a more pop culture variety) will also be showcased on the web.
Does anyone know when we are supposed to be told about funding packages? Do we get the offer along with the acceptance letter? Or do they send a funding notice afterward, when they've gone through all the FAFSA applications? Same with TA-ships. Are those mentioned in the acceptance letter? May be a question with an obvious answer, but I just realized that I have no clue how this works. Thanks to anyone who knows!
In my experience (I've done this before) you find out about the funding situation when the offer is made. As in, they call you with the good news and you ask them what funding (if any) is on the table. Other times, snail mail comes with funding information.
I was told by different schools that the funding decisions couldn't be made right away because it depended on who decided to matriculate, how many students accepted their offers, etc. In other cases I was told outright exactly how much funding was available (which in the case of some NY programs turned out to be chump change).
I know that's a vague answer, but my impression is that if you've got great funding offered to you with your acceptance(s), that can't be taken away, even if you delay making a decision right up until April 15th. On the other hand, if you've been told you have a poor shot at funding, that could still change as other students decide not to take their offers, and so on.
Hope this doesn't add more stress to the waiting-game, but in some ways, the stress of making decisions about funding and offers is worse than the waiting!
note: I shouldn't say that programs "can't take away" funding once its been offered. I don't know that for certain, but it seems like it wouldn't be in their best interest (or yours) to do so, and I've never heard of it happening...maybe other app veterans or admins would know.
Funding very loosely means they really want you (but obviously no matter the funding, if they offer you a spot, they really want you). Don't let the messiness of funding scare you...keep the dream :)
Glad to hear I'm not the only one! I assumed the same thing about cutting and pasting, since the subject of the email did say MFA, and I also checked my app and it said MFA. Are you fiction or poetry?
@Blob,
You're poetry, right? I don't know if someone else will send emails out to the poets, but maybe that's why you haven't gotten a message yet.
For fully-funded programs, you don't really have to worry about the funding details b/c you pretty much already know what you are going to get. The exact numbers will either come with your acceptance letter or a packet that comes shortly thereafter. However, I should note that if you should be lucky enough to be accepted into two programs that really, really want you, there has been precedent to ask a programs if they could match another school's aid offer.
For programs that don't fully fund all of their students, you sometimes have to wait until all offers had been made/ confirmed/ rejected etc. or until the program has secured money from various sources. As others have noted, this means that you may be waiting for someone with full (or at least more) funding to turn down a spot.
Also, I don't think this has been mentioned here yet but keep in mind that TA positions and university grants/ fellowships/ scholarships may disqualify you (or significantly lesson) the amount of federal aid you receive via the FAFSA form.
FWIW, I know very few people who actually filled out the FAFSA. If you are applying only to fully-funded programs and don't plan to take out any federal loans, it's not really necessary.
However, if you want to be on the safe side (esp. if you are applying to programs that don't fully fund), it never hurts to have filled it out. Many programs regardless of how much funding you get seem to want you to fill it out anyway.
I only applied to fully funded programs, with one exception, but that school does fully fund if they grant you a TA-ship, which I am applying for, of course. And I'm not filling out the FAFSA. I know that during undergrad, we were supposed to try to get it done by March 1st, but then they'd always say that we could still get it in after that. Since I haven't even started on my taxes yet, and I'm not planning on taking out loans, I'm not too worried about it at this point.
Ok, that makes me feel better. That's sort of how I was thinking too.
In other news, I'm having a minor recommendation crisis. One of my recommenders has still not submitted my UT-Austin electronic recommendation, which was due Dec. 15th. The status check says the recommendation has been 'saved, but not submitted.' The recommender told me that he had completed them. But clearly he hit 'save' instead of submit. I emailed him around the 18th letting him know that the status was showing 'saved' and that maybe he needed to re-submit. I never heard back. And no change on his recommendation. I then, this week re-sent the electronic reminder. And no change. I really don't want to annoy him. But I also don't want my application to be dis-counted. Honestly, if they consider my application with only 2 recommendations that's fine. I just don't want them to see it as incomplete.
Sigh. I thought now that I'd submitted my last application, my stress would end.
I was also under the impression that if you're applying to fully-funded programs, FASFA is irrelevant.
The MFA programs are so anally specific about certain forms you need to fill out to successfully apply to/attend their program, I assume they'd let you know if you needed to fill out any extra forms in addition to getting funded via the program.
In other news, I'm watching Hey Arnold! and it's such an amazing cartoon. I'd love to be a published author and all, but if I could write for kids shows like they USED to show back on Nickelodeon in the good ol' days, I'd be content with that, too.
Um. So, I think I may have accidentally, procrastinated myself out of the running at UMich. I sent my paper stuff by post office express mail, because of the received-by date and because I am a procrastinator (see above). Except of course, it's closed, so the tracking confirmation just says they left a note. Anyone have any idea if they would accept that as "received by" even if it will not actually be there on the Jan. 1 date, but will instead be sitting sadly in the closed post office. I am filling out the mind numbing electronic app now and it feels kind of pointless. I am trying to console myself that I was never really in the running anyway, but it hurts to go out this way....
Same thing happened to me. Chronic procrastinator. Misread USPS' website. Got to the post office ten minutes before close to be told my package wouldn't be delivered til Monday after the New Year.
I resent the January 1st "received by" deadline. It is a make-believe deadline. Michigan's especially. "Our office is closed on January 1st, but we MUST receive your documents by January 1st. OR ELSE." Huh? What kind of bogus, ambiguous, half-assed instructions are those anyway? Everybody knows USPS doesn't ship holidays. So is your real cutoff Jan. 2nd or Dec. 30th? Or before your department closed for the holidays? What are we supposed to believe? I don't know. I just don't know.
Everybody should be like Arkansas:
"We accept applications with postmark dates beginning September 1, 2010 and ending January 4, 2011."
Crystal clear. Foolproof. I love you Arkansas. I hope you let me into your program.
I began to really explore the website and found this: http://www.colorado.edu/English/crw/course/mfa/index.html
where it says Admission Requirements (GRE) 600 verbal 5.0 analytic approximately.
I sent them an e-mail a week ago, asking about this, though they're most likely out of the office. What do you guys think? Do you think this is a requirement or not? Because my scores weren't that excellent, and I don't want to waste my time and money (I already sent them my scores without finding this part of the site). I can't tell if they require that because there is it says "approximately." It's really frustrating how obscure and scattered these MFA websites are.
What do you guys think? Do you think I should submit my app, tomorrow? Even though my scores don't quite meet that?
Stephen - I had the exact same problem with North Carolina State! They said they didn't have a minimum, but said the average incoming verbal score was around 650. Well, I'm not even close to that, so I emailed asking if I would be overlooked for aid. It's been two months now and nada in the response department. Sooo aggravating. But I did end up applying, so we'll just have to see what happens.
I second Gena's advice and say submit. I think in the end, your writing is what will matter. I'm hoping that applies to financial aid, too :S
Is anybody else having problems with the Florida State online application?
I started mine several weeks ago, to get my recommenders registered. A few days later, my letters were showing up in their system -- but when I logged back in, the FSU grad app didn't show that I had registered any recommenders at all. So I re-registered them, hoping the system would find the old letters. I then filled out FSU's entire online application, including my sample, statement, etc., and submitted it along with my application fee. This was about a week ago.
Well, I logged back on today to try to check my status, and their system isn't showing that I've submitted my application, even though I have an email confirming my submission and payment! The application now is just showing my recommenders' letters and nothing else.
FSU's deadline is Jan. 1, and of course nobody's in the office today. I'll call them on Monday to find out WTF, but has anybody else had this problem? Was there a rational resolution? It just seems too weird ...
I'm not applying to FSU, but I have noticed that it is very easy to accidentally start two applications (I've started three at some schools without realizing it), so make sure you haven't started two, or possibly made two separate accounts: it can be confusing when applying to several schools.
re GRE scores: while my verbal and quant are ok, my writing score was 4.0. 4.0! and I'm applying to writing programs? I don't even begin to understand how I did so miserably. but I'm applying anyway and you should, too. ets simply doesn't get my poetics, obviously ;-)
I'm (mostly) DONE. (Need a couple of transcripts and have to mail a couple of envelopes, but everything else is in.) 20 of 20 MFA and 3 of 3 MA programs. Phew!
I don't think the GRE is very indicative of a good writer, especially since the writing portion is analytical and the work we'll be doing in our mfa programs is creative. Totally different styles. I think that's why the schools themselves don't take them into too much account when looking at our applications. Not sure how much they go into determining aid, but I think as far as admissions go, they're pretty low on the list of considerations.
Like Sarah said, GREs don't really matter. It's a formality. If you do well, standardized tests may help you qualify for university wide scholarships/ fellowships but apart from that no one is going to reject you for GRE scores alone. Even admissions officers at some of the best schools in the country admit that applicants probably put too much weight on the value of standardized tests.
What, that's really scary that Boulder posts a minimum analytical writing score. I've been sending my GREs everywhere, because I was proud on how well I did on the verbal and quantitative sections and because so many people have told me the A.W. score does not matter at all. But I also got a 4.0. That's the 45 percentile! I have no idea how that happened either, but I was just assuming that my samples and recommendations would make it clear to the committees that I can, in fact, write. Sort of. Grrr, if they DO care about that writing score I am screwed!!!
I'm in the same boat re: Michigan! I'm trying not to get too bummed until I call them on Monday and get some confirmation. I also saw the "note left" on the USPS website when I tracked my submission! Bummer. I did re-read the directions, and they did seem pretty clear that they needed stuff by Jan 1st...but then why not make the deadline the day before their office closes instead of a day in the middle of their winter vacation? Makes no sense. My friend is trying to convince me that they would absolutely have to take my application because it'd be ridiculous on their part not to, but I'm not sure...will call them on the 3rd and maybe try to blame the blizzard? Let me know if you guys get any updates on this.
I got a 4.0/45th percentile on my writing section too! I didn't think I'd done that badly, and it makes my score report look pretty odd considering I aced the quant and verbal sections. Apparently the score on your writing section is the average of a computer reader and human reader's scores. I wonder how well a computer can judge writing ability.
I wouldn't worry about the writing section. It actually measures your ability to follow directions more than your writing ability (I am saying that slightly tongue in cheek). For example, they want you to take a firm side on an issue, something I didn't do the first time I took the test, garnering me a 3.5 (yes, you heard me) on the writing section. Basically, I argued that both sides of the argument made valid points and seemed pretty viable. Opps. I didn't evaluate the argument in the way they had asked for. The second time I took the test I got a 5. Not perfect, but certainly better. So not to worry! You're just a rebel :P
Re: Johns Hopkins SOP: Was I wrong in thinking the "critique of work" is of your own work. I wrote a critique of my own sample, should I have written a critique of another piece of writing?
@Blob - true. I just feel like last year there was a lot more talking going on. January had a slew of talk going on, on just about every subject imaginable, haha. I'm hoping that means not as many people are applying to programs this year (please, oh please, be the case!). If that is true, I will take less than active blog, fo sho!
I want to know how many applications came in this year. Last year it seemed like every program had a record number. I'd like to see those numbers go waaaay down.
@Eli - I didn't apply to Hopkins, but I remember reading about that requirement and yup, you did the right thing. Kind of a weird thing to ask, but I guess I see some value to it; it shows awareness, I suppose...
Does anyone know what happens after you submit to U of Arkansas? I know you just send in your writing sample in the beginning - if they like your sample, are you in? Or do you have to go a "second round" where they then evaluate your rec letters, SOP, etc?
Here's some blather for tonight: what's the most influential author you've read, and why/how has he/she influenced you?
For me, that author would be Stephen King. His novella, Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption, is the cleanest, tightest, most moving story I've ever read. More than painting florid metaphors or upending literary conventions with Gertrude Stein-esque ambitions, I just want to write a story that will be understood, remembered, and loved by anyone who picks it up. No big words, no obscure references to a 12th century treatise on the art of falconry in the Greek isles... just a good story.
@EGS - Arkansas' app process is a bit deceiving in that for the TA application, you have to send letters/GRE scores/transcripts, etc. You might want to go back to their website and give a good look at the TA application.
@AnotherJenny - for me, there is no author greater than Fyodor Dostoevsky. I second Nietszche (damn the spelling of that German's name!!) in that Dostoevsky is the only psychologist I've ever learned anything from. I've never read characters so deep, unique, interesting, and intriguing. I've never read stories that deal with existence and human struggle so well, especially with regards to the intellectual outsider. The religion, the nationalism, the gusto... Hm-hm, he's my dawg!
I *love* Russian literature in general, though. British literature is too boring to me, modern American literature tends to be too cookie cutter, and I haven't really been exposed to much else. I have a soft spot for early 20th century stuff, especially Tennessee Williams. I pretty much love every one of his weird ass short stores :D
Ooh, just one? I have to say that Jonathan Safran Foer has been very inspirational. But then a million more come to mind immediately...Shel Silverstein and Roald Dahl (as a child), Chuck Palahniuk, Jonathan Safran Foer and Dave Eggers.
Could we ever create something that means to someone else what our favorite work means to us? That's what I strive for.
I don't know that have any clear strong influence. But I do have favorites. Brothers Karamazov, is my favorite book, Kaybay, so I definitely feel you there. I think I take a little from everything I read. Hemingway and Flannery O'Connor were eye-openers for me.
But, the closest thing I have to an identifiable influence, though my writing is very different, is Lawrence Ferlinghetti. One of his poems is the first poem I ever read that really made sense to me and resonated in a way I didn't think poetry could. It's what made me pursue poetry.
I have yet to read Brothers Karamazov, but I totally need to! It's just a little daunting, you know. I started the first couple of chapters and really struggled to get into it, so lazy ass me ended up putting it down :(
I love Hemingway and O'Connor too, by the way. You have good tastes ;)
That's really a personal decision and one that probably applies more to book manuscripts vs. short stories. While I don't doubt that some people benefit from hiring editors/ coaches, I personally think you would gain the most in terms of developing as a writer by just working on your craft, reading a lot, and getting some constructive feedback whether that be from a teacher or a peer. The process of drafting, re-drafting, putting a story away for a while in order to gain distance, drafting again, finally sending out, getting rejected, and sending out again is just part of the "game". One of the main benefits of the MFA workshop is to help writers become better critics of their own writing so that they don't need outside voices (at least until a story or book manuscript is in the hands of a magazine editor or publishing house editor). If you do decide to get some additional feedback on your shorter work apart from people in your "immediate circle", there are several places to turn to including Dzanc's Creative Writing Sessions and Gotham Writers Workshop. These types of places will help guide you vs. shape you (much like a workshop) so that you can make your story/poem/ essay your own and develop your critical eye. When you do submit, a lot of the same advice one hears on the MFA blog still applies: SPREAD YOUR NET WIDE (it's a numbers game in many ways) and DO YOUR RESEARCH. Submitting a single story or poem to 10 -20 places at a time (esp. if you are sending to very competitive journals to start with) is not a bad idea at all. Best of luck!
I had a very sleepless night, which means my mind wandered in all sorts of places-- including, of course, this whole application process. So, it got me wondering, for those of you finished with your applications-- if you could/will end up doing this all over again, what would you do differently?
Here's what I would do differently, in no particular order: 1. Although I contacted my recommenders, finalized my list, and took my GRE on the early side I wish I'd started my actual applications earlier. Having to do them all so close to the end led to some errors.
2. This time around, any school that had the option of electronic or hard copy letters, I chose hard. Next time, unless my recommenders specified they preferred hard copy letters, I'd dot hem all electronically. It's quicker for them and it's much easier to track, which would give me a lot more peace of mind.
3. I'd throw in at least one or two tier two or tier three schools.
4. I'd focus more on my GRE.
5. I'd start seriously working on and drafting my SOP a lot sooner. It ended up being much harder and less up to my satisfaction than I would have imagined going in to the process.
Some things I'm glad I did: 1. Got all my materials to my recommenders early and at one time so it didn't drag on. 2. Making a master spreadsheet of application information, deadlines, program info, etc of all my schools. 3. Getting my GRE out of the way early. 4. Using completed works for my writing sample so that I didn't have to stress about the writing or editing process amongst everything else.
Mostly starting earlier, both for the SOP and working on my sample. I really ended up doing 90% of the work for everything in about two months and I'm still feeling the pinch now. I'm only now working on my Iowa application [which is due, uh, today] which is horribly irresponsible of me.
Also, I'd def take the GRE again. My scores were embarrassing.
If I have to do this again, I'll just be happy that I won't have to do it while working, writing my thesis, going to school, and interning all at the same time. I'm surprised I still have any sanity left.
Blob,Pensive monkey, In reference to the "What's your genre?" for Wash U question, I'm also fiction. So perhaps all Wash U poetry applicants can rest easier now.
Sorry about the delayed response! I tried to hide from my computer all weekend so I just saw this today.
so i'm filling out iowa's forms right now [again, last minute, etc] and i'm stuck on the people i've studied with. there's three lines and i've got one for sure but then i'm not sure about the others. do i put the people i studied with the most intensively? the ones who have the biggest names? the ones i feel most connected to? i'm guessing the biggest names, but then a few of those are poets and i'm a fiction writer... does that matter at all? ugh. i don't even know.
Happy new year everyone! I've just had an odd email from the English grad coordinator at Cornell. Apparently they didn't get my LORs, even though they were uploaded via web delivery on Interfolio. That's annoying but then, she emailed me again and asked for 15 pages or so of the novel I'm writing (in addition to my sample). I have no idea what this means. Was my sample insufficient? Why would they want more? I'm also worried because my novel isn't in the shape I'd like it to be in!
i think that's great news! That must mean they like your work. They wouldn't ask for more if they thought you were a piece of crap! Excited for you (and kind of jealous).
Did you send an official transcript? I just checked my status and it says they've received everything but the transcript. I did upload a copy, but I can't remember if I even ordered an official copy yet...doh! I ordered a few and I don't remember if Virginia was one...I'm thinking not.
As I review the app, I see that it says, "Unofficial transcripts are used by Admission Committees to begin their review process but offers of admission are not binding until official transcripts are received and verified." I think I probably decided not to send an official copy yet. Man I wish I remembered! I was trying to be good about documenting what I was sending where, but I seem to have failed.
what form asks for the people you've studied with???? Do you mean in the manuscript cover sheet where it asks what writing courses you've taken in the past & who taught them? Or is there a separate question about specific people you've worked with that I'm not finding in any of my Iowa forms? Glad I'm not the only one sending my Iowa application at the last possible postmark date.. :)
First things first: I FINALLY got some of my apps submitted. Woo! This is such a load off my shoulders; now I finally have an SOP and other essays drafted and brushed-up. My other schools (all Jan 15 deadlines) will be much easier now these first few are out of the way.
In other news, I MISSED A DEADLINE. That's right, you heard me. You can all feel better about yourselves now. I had planned to apply to UNCW, but due to bad planning and anxiety and NYE and a slew of other things I didn't have my essays done in time for it. I only have myself to blame, honestly, but I can't let myself sweat it too much. Let's just hope one of the other schools takes me...
Re: Things I wish I had done...
- Studied more vocab for the GRE. Tons more. I did okay, but vocab was the one area where I seriously got screwed.
- Written a draft of my SOP much, much earlier. Like a month earlier.
- Used works that were ALREADY DONE for my writing sample. This is difficult for me because I haven't really finished anything. All of my work is either first-draft, or pieces of a greater whole. This probably stems from not spending enough time on my writing, but also from my ideas always growing into bigger formats: most of my ideas start out as short stories but then inevitably overflow into potential novels or novellas. Re: the story I submitted this time, I slashed it in half because half of it was just not working, and then was struggling to re-write it to a very high standard and with a deadline on top of all the other MFA stuff. Terrible idea.
- I would have researched and picked my schools better. I decided to apply pretty late (mid-November), so all the schools with December deadlines were pretty much out. Right now, the only school I'm honest-to-god excited about is UNLV. It's not that I'm not excited about the other ones, because I am, I'm just not 100% certain they would be perfect fits for me... but then, I guess, how could I ever be certain about that?
Overall, I'm probably a good example of how NOT to apply to MFAs. I decided to apply last-minute, got everything done in under a month, and spent a week studying for the GREs. Yay.
Re: the Johns Hopkins SOP: yeah, I did the same thing you did, after reading the instructions for it, like, 10 times over. I found it a little weird since no other school asked for an essay like that one. I also included an awkward final paragraph about my experiences with workshopping and editing, though I'm not sure if that was a good idea now since they only indicated they wanted to get a "sense of" your workshopping skills, probably just from the critique itself.
Also: did anyone else have trouble with UMich's essays? I was scratching my head over the notes on the SOP because it seemed to be more generally aimed at grad students in general, and then I had trouble separating my information into "academic" and "personal" since those two types of materials are so intertwined.
615 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 615 Newer› Newest»@ Stephen
I think that one of the points Kealey is trying to make when advising people not to be so focused on faculty is that a/you don't know if that faculty member is a good teacher, b/you don't know how often they will be teaching when you are there, c/you don't know they will actually be there when you arrive, d/you don't know if you will get along with that faculty member. One of my mentors wound up working with someone whose poetry was nothing like hers (and whose work she didn't particularly like or get), yet she learned more from him than well-known "names" who didn't like her work even though they wrote like her.
@Stephen
Faculty on the selection committee often hand pick who they want to work with. Just say the person who likes you is not someone you mention. But someone who did like your writing and wants you in the yes pile is not mentioned. It's not that their feelings are hurt, but that they probably wont' fight as hard for you or that it might be what tips the hat to another person. I think because these spots are so competitive often little things become the tie-breakers.
But even if you don't buy that, do consider the fact that a lot of the 'faculty' of any given program either don't teach or barely teach. Faculty also changes a lot. Saying one of the reasons you want to go to X University is because of John Smith, might hinder you if John Smith is on sabbatical, is a 'figurehead' faculty, or is leaving the program at the end of this year. It's not that anyone will be insulted, but that your talking about a faculty member in that case becomes a moot point at best, or at worst will give the hand to someone else who focuses on other aspects of the program.
Salman Rushdie is a 'professor' at my undergrad alma matter. He gives lectures to the public, visits classrooms from time to time, etc. But doesn't teach any class and is rarely even in town. But you'd never know that from the website. If someone wrote an SOP talking about how they wanted to work with him, it would be sort of laughed at within the department. Yet, the applicant would technically have no way of knowing what a joke it would be. Yes, if the applicant was stellar and out of this world, they'd get in anyway. But the SOP wouldn't do them any favors, in fact it might be a bit of a negative because it shows a lack of understanding of how these things work.
@kaybay Aw! I'm going to steal your dog (dawg), put a UGA shirt on 'em and in this way restore order to the universe.
I wanted an English bulldog, but my mutt followed me home one day and I couldn't bring myself to give him away.
Sometimes these things work in mysterious ways. I wanted a dog, and a dog wanted me. Go figure.
@Todd - You can have him :D. Just kidding. Bulldogs are funny and cute, but they're pretty smelly and bull-headed. He's a tooter... I personally think that mutts are way better dogs. Super loyal and sweet and low-maintenance. My bullie wants what he wants, when he wants it, come hell or high water.
@All - anyone else feeling crushing doubt? It's my second story that I'm most worried about. I just think it was a little ambitious, like maybe I should have gone with a safer bet. I don't know how to articulate what exactly that means, but I just feel like it's a little atypical and that many programs want writers that they're comfortable with; writers they know where to go with. I'm worried that they won't "get" it and won't like it or that they'll take it as a little melodramatic. Hrm.
@kaybay, I definitely am.
I feel like I'm not good enough, that my SOP typo will doom me, that my GRE score will doom me, that the poems I picked for my sample are all wrong, that my SOP is just bad in general, that my LoRs will actually be terrible because my former professors secretly want to sabotage me, and that my rejection letters will follow me around and be visibly chalked on my face.
And then I think about how fun it would be to get accepted into XYZ school and get excited and giddy and then I realize I probably won't get into XYZ school because I'm not good enough...and the cycle starts all over.
Sorry Blob :(
This is the worst part of this process, too. Well, that is unless you don't get accepted anywhere. That's definitely the worst (I can attest). But at least in that case you have closure. I hate not knowing! Literally, I have zero expectations. I have no idea if I'll get accepted anywhere, let alone a top program. That's good and bad. I feel like I'm pissing in the dark :( I think I may have used that saying before, haha.
Who besides me is fully expecting to be rejected from 100% of their schools?
Of course I'm hopeful that I'm wrong. But knowing the odds...even though I believe I'm good enough and all, I just fear that I will get all rejection letters. And it will be such a blow...how do you really prepare yourself for major rejection like that?
I think Seth's blog said that 1 in 4 applicants gets in nowhere. That means that 75% get in somewhere. Not bad odds...but still, I'm so scared.
Pensive - I'm choosing to repeat in my head over and over that I have no idea what will happen and I advise doing the same for you (easier said than done, I know). The truth is, there is no way to determine what will happen after all of this. It's pretty much a crap shoot, given that everyone has different preferences for what they like and what they think has "potential" and who they want to work with. But, if it can work against you it can also work in your favor. So hope on. I hear you on the doubt, though. I'm going through that right now :(
I was waitlisted at three places (pretty low on all three, though) and was obviously not admitted off the WS anywhere. It hurt initially, but it wore off pretty quickly. Honestly, it wasn't so much the rejection as it was the loss of money (and the fact that I had to return to my job, blah). I just can't keep blowing close to $1000 for this every year. It really, seriously means nothing at all about your potential as a writer. It may mean that you weren't ready that year (that's what it meant for me), but other than that, don't take it as a sign. Keep trudging. Writing is mostly about growing and persevering.
@ Pensive -
I'm def expecting to get rejected. my professors keep reassuring me that i will get in, but i can't believe them, lest i be terribly disappointed.
keep repeating to yourself: it only takes one. it only takes one.
That's my mantra, too, Katie Oh...I'm applying to schools that I want to go to, so even if only one accepts me, that's all I need.
And Kaybay, you're right. I am telling myself not to give up, and that getting an MFA or not should not decide whether or not I keep writing.
I'm really lucky to have an amazingly supportive husband. He loves my writing and refers to me as a writer and really believes in my talent. It means so much to me. I guess my self-confidence blows, but at least I have him!
I think I sometimes walk a pretty thin line between being a realist (which is good) and being a defeatist (not so good).
Has anyone applied to ODU yet? I'm a big confused about their application instructions. The MFA site makes it sound like there is a paper application, but the application website is purely online. Also, I don't see any "page six" on the application. :/ Would love to hear from someone who has some experience navigating ODU! :) Thanks!
@ thereandbackagain
I am planning on applying to ODU, but I haven't done so yet. However, I too am super confused about the process. I emailed someone there a while back but no one got back to me. My guess is that the paper application is way out of date; for example, it lists the app fee as $40, when it's $50 now.
Hmm, one sec — I just checked my notes and it's riddled with questions and notes to myself to follow up with these people. For example, there's supposed to be the AIGFA, which is a funding application? No clue where to find that. There's also conflicting addresses for where to send materials!
Not cool.
Marti:
A google search unearthed that pesky form:
http://admissions.odu.edu/forms/ODU_GRAD_APP_AIGFA.pdf
Yeah, I really like the location of ODU, and the 'feel' of their program, but oy. Why so complicated?
@ thereandbackagain
Oooh, nice detective work. Thanks!
@ Marti -
Well, I just sent what felt like a 20-question email to the program director. I'll update when/if I get an answer. :)
I have a kind of silly question. So, saying we get accepted into multiple places (*quadruple crosses fingers for all y'all), how much time do we get to choose? From what I understand, some schools notify as early as late January/early February, while others won't until April. How does this work? Is it like applying till regular college, where they all have pretty much the same deadline that you have to let them know by? Or do they give you, say, two weeks to tell them?
I'm just confused as to how it works, since each school wants a specific number of spots. Say they tell their top 12 people. They can't just wait forever for those 12 people to respond, right, because not all of them will accept and they need to know *exactly* how many do and don't before going on to the next person down the line? It's not like college where they accept a bunch of people and they can't really control how many decide to attend or not.
@Jami,
My understanding is that you have until April 15th, no matter what. They may tell you they want a decision sooner, but you have until then to let them know. This is a universal date for the schools, as I understand it.
It also depends on the school. Some schools sign the GSSR (or whatever it is, haha) stating that they will provide students until the 15th of April to declare. If the school didn't sign it, they are not obligated to give you time. Last year UNC Wilmington told an applicant that she had two weeks to make a decision before they pulled her funding (!) and it caused a bit of a ruckus. Most schools, however, have signed the form (contract? Petition? What is it?!) and give you the time.
Resolution! It's a resolution. And it's called the GCS Resolution. GSSR? The latest Soviet state??? It's too early for thought...
Anyway, here's a link:
http://www.cgsnet.org/?tabid=201
@stephen
I didn't see things quite the same way you did. To me it was never faculty v. funding. They were two separate pieces of advice. Advice piece #1: this degree isn't going to make you rich (like business school and law school), so it's wise not to go in debt for it. And then when talking about the SOP advice piece #25: You might want to avoid talking about faculty, unless you talk about ALL faculty, so that you don't risk leaving anyone out.
I don't think he's trying to say look at funding, not faculty, which it seems like is what you took it to be. But to be honest, faculty rates fairly low on my own criteria. I trust that good programs can and will draw good faculty members and certainly some schools rank higher on my list because of certain faculty members. However, being a good writer and being a good teacher have no correlation. You can be one and not the other, there is no link. The ideal is someone who happens to have both skill sets. I've experienced twice being VERY excited to work with certain writers who had work I loved, who seemed like intelligent, thoughtful, charismatic people who were dedicated to helping young/new writers, but ended up being awful teachers. Reading their essays, etc gave no indication of this. But it was actually really hard to experience this with someone I really looked forward to. I know this experience will happen again and again in my life, and I also know I will find some incredible mentors. But I've learned it is impossible to tell who will fall which way even if you do all the reading. The only thing that might give insight is testimonial from other students.
My biggest writing mentor is someone who writes drastically differently than I do. Based on his writing, I would not have thought he was the best person to work with me. But he has helped me leaps and bounds. Part of being a good teacher is helping people even if their strengths are different.
Anyway, I respect that you play a greater emphasis on faculty than I do. But I don't think Tom or anyone else thinks faculty and funding should be in direct competition or comparison.
Many people need the funding in order to be able to go at all. Those that don't are lucky and certainly have some other options.
@stephen
I can still see your comments...
Maybe it's a glitch?
But for the record, Tom Kealey is the one who owns this blog.
weird. my comments keep disappearing after i get responses. anyways, I think I presented my opinion. and I realize the dissent to what I have to say. But I know that I feel very intimidated by Kealey's advice that writing about faculty will hurt you, because he knows a lot more about this than I. However, I do think it's important to be authentic in your application, and for me, that consisted of discussing faculty as a part of my purpose for application, if I feel that I need to discuss them. And I feel, that maybe there are others like I who feel this way, but are reluctant to do so because of Kealey's advice and I just wanted to remind people that he even says that it is just his opinion, and not any sort of general opinion held among the programs and faculty.
@stephen
It's tricky. There's definitely no science, and I don't think Kealey's book is meant to be a science. But because this process seems far more subjective than a lot of other grad school processes and because there is so little information out there it's easy for Kealey's book to become a golden rule kind of thing, which I don't think is it's intention. It is in fact, a hand book, not a rule book or a user's manual. But, it's the only one, so it's sort of become a user's manual for some.
Ultimately it's important to be true to yourself and do what you feel comfortable with. And I don't think anyone will argue otherwise.
But I do think it's important to realize that Kealey's advise about faculty was a very small piece of his over all advice. Certainly the advice to take funding came out loud and strong. And I know people who have ignored that advice and are fine with it. But I think for some others it resonates.
Tom and Seth (who sometimes contributes here) both have a ton of great suggestions, but ultimately they are just suggestions.
Yes, no doubt: funding would be great. And I hope that I will be granted some sort of funding (TA'ship seems most fitting).
On another note:
Does anyone know if the Purdue materials need to be postmarked by the deadline or received by? As well as U. of Alabama?
@stephen
don't know about purdue, alabama is receive by.
Question regarding the FAFSA!
Am I supposed to fill this out and have it sent to all the schools I've applied to? Or just some of them? How does this work?
FWIW, Tom and I agree on a lot of things, but not everything. I value faculty a great deal (as does Tom), my view is simply that valuing faculty doesn't necessarily translate into using an over-simplified system for determining which faculty will be the best mentors. You have to consider things like student-to-faculty ratio, faculty investment in teaching (as reported by his/her current students), how frequently the faculty member actually teaches, their openness to working with students with dfferent styles (rather than merely seeking an acolyte), and so on.
I think a lot of people believe a particular consideration (like faculty) is being dismissed solely because others don't analyze that consideration the same way. Side note: The reason not to menton specific faculty in your SOP is because it suggests you have absolutely no idea what happens in an MFA program and therefore are not prepared to be admitted to one. MFA students work with whole faculties, and they don't (in the end) get to choose their mentors. Things happen organically or not at all. An SOP that makes it seem the applicant has one mentor in mind reveals a simplicity of thought that would worry most adcoms. It might also suggest a certain stubbornness in looking at and thinking about one's own aesthetic, and/or a tendency to emulate rather than innovate--both of which are not the sort of conclusions you want adcoms to draw.
S.
P.S. I didn't mean that to sound as harsh as it came out. The SOP isn't going to be the deciding factor in anyone's application, of course. My point was just that avoiding mentioning faculty in an SOP is not making a value judgment about the importance of faculty, but an acknowledgment of how the MFA works as a degree--something it's important for applicants to know, and which adcoms want to know you know, even if it doesn't ultimately decide (as I said) how anyone's app is received. --S.
I also have no idea about the FAFSA!
Maybe I'm foolish for this, but I'm not even thinking about the FAFSA until I start getting letters...
@ the Pensive Monkey
I thought we were supposed to send ASAP after the 1st of January??
@Seth
I think you've made some good points about why you shouldn't discuss faculty. I do think there are some advantages to discussing faculty in terms of talking about interests in pursuing a diverse perspective in the MFA program (not necessarily seeking faculty that you admire for similarity, but admire for difference, and therefore, challenging your own aesthetics).
I have a somewhat old version of the MFA Handbook, so I'm not sure what the newer editions say about this topic. But in the version that I own, it writes off faculty discussion as a bad idea based on the fact that you might hurt a faculty members feelings if they read your app. and you didn't discuss them (something along those lines), which seems plausible, but also seems to determine faculty temperament as childish.
@Stephen
FWIW, I actually think the temperament of many MFA faculty is childish. Remember, they're working poets and writers just like us -- which in some instances means they're passionate to excess, stubborn, self-involved, egotistical, hot-headed, &c... some of them suffer from addictions, just like poets and writers out in the community do. To think of them as being like History professors would be unwise. Pettiness is definitely on occasion in play in MFA apps, I'm sorry to say. I wish it were otherwise. If Tom's advising special care in dealing with CW adcoms, it's because they're made up entirely of artists, and if you haven't found out yet you will soon that one always needs to tread a little carefully around artists (if one's primary goal is not to offend, I should say... :-)
S.
P.S. For those asking, the acronym for the April 15th Resolution is "CGSR."
It is two AM here in San Francisco, and I am reading the old mailbags from February-April of last year. Why am I doing this to myself? It is utterly pointless.
@kaybay, I enjoyed reading your posts from last year and I doubly wish you luck this year!
Ha! Thanks Jamie :D
Happy Holidays to all! If you don't celebrate anything, Happy Time off From Work to all!!
Looking forward to an anxious January :S
Just wanted to say Merry Christmas, everyone!
Here's hoping we all get what we want most for Christmas and thus have a very, very good New Year. We've earned it.
Merry Christmas, y'all! Here's hoping that we all get what we REALLY want for Christmas in, oh, mid-February and March!
Does anyone know if George Mason's deadline is postmarked or received by?
Just got Michigan done! Merry Christmas to me.
Also, here's a cute story, talking to my nephew:
Him: You're applying to 18 schools, right? And none of them are going to let you in?
Me: Well, some might let me in, if they like my writing.
Him: Well then, you'd better try and write pretty neatly.
LSU application question:
On the application itself there is space for "a brief summary of your research and/or teaching experience" as well as "a statement concerning your proposed program of graduate study. In your statement, you should address such matters as areas of interest, your plans for development, and (for applicants to research master's and doctoral programs) possible thesis or dissertation topics." Which makes it sound like a separate SoP and teaching statement. However, according to the LSU MFA application instructions applicants are advised: "The 'brief statement' requested on your Graduate School application should be about 500 words long. Write about yourself and your
interests, your research and reading interests, and your experience as a teacher (if any). Add any further information that you consider relevant
for a consideration of your qualifications for this award."
My question: should I upload the same doc for both or do I need to make a separate teaching statement, even though I've included that info on my SoP?
How'd y'all deal with that?
Thanks!
@thereandback
I wish I could help. I'm TOTALLY confused by LSU's application. It's my only one left and right now I'm dealing with it by ignoring it, which probably isn't wise. My goal is to have it done by Wednesday. I'll let you know if I figure things out. But do let me know if you figure things out. I wish they just had a simple checklist.
@Blob
And trying to figure this stuff out during winter break is a bit like having an entire phone conversation in a dead zone. :/
Good thing that application isn't due until later in the month.
@thereandback
well i'm always here, even if I don't have answers to your questions..
@ Blob,
Which I appreciate :)
We will be done with this applying thing soon, right?
Working on Michigan (finally). I *will* get the biographical statement draft done tonight.
After that, unless I hear from LSU or a couple of other places that I need to write an additional statement or whatever, I'll be done with all 20 MFA applications! Then, I'll just have 2 statements of purpose to write for the 2 remaining MA Lit programs. The light! I see it!
ok, moment of super paranoia...
I dropped three of my application packets (Iowa, Flordia, and UCI) in a blue box and now, I'm somehow terrified that they won't actually be delivered, that I picked a somehow dead blue box that will probably not be checked for months.
I'm losing my mind, right? I mean, I've already had my bad luck with USPS, how much more can I take?
@Blob
so long as the blue box is a tardis, you'll be aces. (sorry, i'm watching doctor who.) i'm sure it will be fine. (i'm also having iowa anxiety - no movement on my delivery notification since i dropped it off at my post office. :/)
@thereandback
I'm such an idiot I really should have mailed with a confirmation slip and number just to give myself peace of mind. But I was like 'no, these things are here for a reason.'
I'm so stubbornly annoying sometimes.
@thereandback - when did you send your app? I got my Iowa "receipt" on Thursday and I sent my sample in early December (I think??). Soooo, moral of the story, it should be sent within three weeks I would presume. Maybe because of the holidays and because more people send apps later than earlier, it would be a little delayed.
I'm opting not to worry about anything sent in the mail, not that I don't understand your worry. Last year I didn't get any update from UF and had to just hope that they got it (they did). You won't get a response from them (love that program to pieces, but they don't respond EVER). So, just have hope and don't stress. As much as possible.
@ Kaybay
I don't think we're talking about the same thing. I mean the delivery confirmation from the post office. It's like it just fell off the radar after I handed it to them. Weird.
Oh. That sucks :(
I have not been on the up and up of things and haven't even figured out how to check the status of my application on any of my school's websites! Instead... I've been obsessively watching season 8 of 24 on DVD. May I say that this is the third season I've watched over this Christmas break? It's basically the only thing I've done besides grad school stuff. I need a life.
I've basically had the worst last few days ever.
The morning of the 23rd I awoke with the most agonizing pain in my tummy ever. I have a history of these pains (has happened intermittently for the last 3 or 4 years). Usually, though, it only lasts for about an hour or two. I've been to the ER for it before and they're usually totally useless...but when I had been writhing and crying in the bed for about 30 hours...Mom was like...
"time to go." So we went to the ER. Found out I had terrible gallstones and pretty much the worst gallbladder infection they'd ever seen, so it needed to be removed asap.
Christmas Eve = gallbladder removal.
Basically, I've been in recovery, and haven't been able to work on my applications due in the next few days, which is soooo annoying! And none of the pain pills are as good as the Dilaudid they shot me up with at the hospital.
Sigh.
This is basically a big rant.
Screw the universe.
God Courtney, that sounds terrible! I'm so sorry! What a way to spend the holidays. I was just about to make a post about how little conversation is happening on this blog and then you posted that. Not what I was looking for :(
@ Courtney
Worse pain ever. Glad to hear you are on the mend.
Re: UVA payment
Is anybody else having trouble paying the app fees for UVA? The payment site refuses to load for me (TRAIKlix or something like that). I've tried it in Chrome and Firefox.
It's frustrating because I'll have to wait till Jan 2 to get a response from UVA. Any help would be appreciated.
Florida State: does anybody know how many stories or how long the writing sample can be for florida state? Their page says: applicants to the creative writing program should submit 10 poems, a story, or a chapter from a novel. a bit confusing. any help i'd appreciate. thanks!
Thank god for this blog. I finished my applications and everything mid November (though I have to say, not having anything to do near the deadline isn't much better - I'm still freaking out a little). But what I HADN'T thought of was a little thank you present for the referees. *smacks forehead* Of course, I did the utterly improper thing and offered to pay for sending the reference letters out (the two that needed to be couriered, anyway). So... yeah, (wibble)tankoo(/wibble). *considers thank you gifts now*
Also, @Leanne, it was way back that you posted the thing about the certification of finances and stuff. I'm in the same boat, international student and really not capable, in any manner, of signing a statement saying I can (or my parents can) pay $48000. The only school I'm having a problem with in this respect now is Mills, because they appear to want the certification of finances document signed before the application can even be considered complete. I wrote to them about it, and was told that they'll see what they can do, but that was over a week back.
Oh, and Mills' deadline WAS December 15, but evidently now they've pushed it to January 15, which is also a little annoying because I spent a sleepless night or two completing their stipend app, which required 4 essays and I have to say they're all utterly the pits - but anyway. While all other colleges would want the document in question signed later (as long as there isn't funding, that is), they want it done before the application -- so, really, does anyone have a clue how to circumvent this? Or should I cut my losses and dish out another $50 or something to apply to another school. >_<
Oh, and on a totally random note, with reference to Seth's response to Stephen up there *points*, History professors can also be childish, utterly whingy, petty, self-obsessed, egotistical, socially incompetent and bitchy. Two years of a Masters in History in what's meant to be one of the best departments in my country taught me that no group of people can exist without an undercurrent of, well, poop.
I avoided mentioning professors in my SOP unless there was a course I was SPECIFICALLY looking forward to, and in that case too, I think I only mentioned the course.
Hi everyone,
Just thought I would drop off a few stories of my application process, which has been ongoing since May, I think, because I'm a paranoid overthinker who wants to get into a good program so, so badly.
I started contacting professors in May, as I was going on a roadtrip in my school bus and I'd hoped to schedule meetings with some of them. Met with someone at Portland State, who was so helpful and honest, and mostly told me to look elsewhere as their lack of funding made an MFA nearly pointless. Various other contacts proved great, like at Chatham and Wyoming, who seemed simply ecstatic to share in my enthusiasm (and verbosity), or interesting, such as at Michigan, where I found one professor telling me that he loved my email and spectrum of interest, but that wouldn't amount to squat because the odds of admittance were so bad. The worst came from Irvine, whose director was so tardy in response that I finally just submitted my application online, only to hear back from him a week later, saying, "hey, your interests don't align with us. Don't apply."
I've had Oregon tell me I had to redo my entire application because they revamped their system, and though I had one recommender sending from as far as Italy, Wyoming completely ignored those snailmailed letters and are making me ask the recommenders to just email them instead. Embarrassing.
Cornell's application process was refreshingly easy, but too bloody expensive. Chatham's was free, and everyone there is nice and eager, which I LOVE! Michigan's campus is the nicest I've ever seen, and the Dobie House at U of Texas manages to contradict the charmless sprawl of the Austin Campus.
My list is as follows:
Michigan
Texas
LSU
Chatham
Indiana
Syracuse
Cornell
San Francisco State
Wyoming
Oregon
Iowa
Wish I hadn't applied to Iowa...only did that because I wanted the challenge. I'm gunning for well-funded programs with room for interdisciplinary study, specifically with room for Italian and Cinematic courses.
Why is this comment so long? I look forward to reading all of your updates, and wish EVERYONE the best of luck! I hope we all get in somewhere!
Cheers,
Eric
i hope everyone's apps are going well (especially in the midst of holiday busy-ness...)
i was wondering what everyone's take on this would be (and i also just want to rant a bit, admittedly). i planned to finish editing my writing sample by dec 24th, so i could mail it off and it would arrive on time for the jan 1 deadline. (thank god only two schools i'm applying to want samples via mail). i mailed them by regular mail, but then remembered how the public holidays would mean the whole process would be delayed. so i mailed them *again* today via express, only for the post office employee to say that they *still* might not get there on time, after i had already paid. (from the very beginning told him i needed the documents to get there by jan 1, i wish he had told me it wasn't guaranteed at the beginning...)
anyway, i'm considering sending the documents yet *again* by overnight post or something like that to make sure they actually get there by the deadline. it would be so stupid for them to throw out my application completely because something got in a couple days late. and i've already spent a lot on this, so what's a bit more? at the same time though, i don't want to have to pay again when one or both of the copies i sent earlier might get there after all. i'm not sure what i should do but i have to decide quick.
ugh. i guess they have their reasons, but it bothers me to no end to think about how applicants have to go through all this time and expense when the administrative staff could just receive everything online and print it out with just a click of a button.
Leanne - have you thought about contacting the program and asking if they can be a little lenient on the arrival of your sample, given that you've tried? It might not work, but it's worth a shot.
Eric - why did Irvine tell you not to apply? That's pretty crazy...
@leanne
Are you sure your schools have receive by and not postmark by deadlines? Of my 14 schools, only one had a receive by deadline, the rest were all 'postmark by' which means you're fine.
Also, I would hesitate to overnight, only because that means someone has to sign for it and I doubt anyone is in the office right now and scheduling a 're-delivery' can be annoying and difficult.
@ kaybay & blob:
thanks guys. i should double-check the post mark thing but you're probably right. i don't remember any school i looked at specifying a "received by" date. i'm also going to send them an email.
i guess we all get a little panicking when it comes to applications... :x
another couple of things:
1. there's an essay i have to write if i want to be eligible for a research/publishing assistantship at UNCW. any tips for this? it's the only school i'm applying to that requires something outside of a teaching or personal statement. i guess something like a cover letter, addressing previous experience and what i hope to do there?
2. i'm really getting cracking on my SOP. if anyone is up for reading it over within the next couple of days, i'd be so grateful and will totally read something over for you in return. shoot me a line at leanne[dot]mirandilla[at]gmail[dot]com
@blob
someone does not have to be there to sign for it. the post office gives you that option, but you are able to decline it. i did that with almost all of my applications last year, and they all arrived without any difficulties.
@once_again
For overnight deliveries the signature is required, but not for 2-3 day delivery. They may tell you have an option, but the postman will still ask for a signature. I've experienced the confusion first hand. I'm sure it works correctly sometimes, but it's worth avoiding doing the holidays.
ok. but i sent 13 apps last year and ten were overnight. they all arrived w no complications. i have sent many materials this year overnigt. again, all departments have confirmed the arrival of all materials.
@once_again
It's certainly not a fight. But my overnight application, which was also sent 'without signature required' did require a signature and ended up being held. I've also been on the receiving end of the same situation several times at work.
Having said that, if it works great, and people should go for it. But given that I have experienced problems in the past, it just seems like if there are other options, those should be used first, that's all I'm saying.
and. i have had my brother who lives across country send me overnight material. he waved the signature. and i always found it sitting their on the door step. so. maybe you've just been unlucky. signature is not required. any postman who has any exp - has brought mail hundreds of times to the universities - a lot of that "overnight." he/she knows a sig would be rediculous to obtain.
but i agree. avoid it if possible. no need to risk it being held.
Leanne, I am in the same boat as you, except my situation is complicated even further by living overseas and having to use Interfolio for all my deliveries. On Monday, I was planning to send an application overnight or two-day so that it would be received before Dec. 31, but the only overnight and two-day options Interfolio gives is Fed Ex, which not only requires a signature but also won't deliver to a PO box. I didn't learn this last lovely detail until I entered the address (which is a PO box) and mailing with Fed Ex didn't show up as an option. So, i just sent the darn thing priority mail, which is supposed to take 3 to 5 days. Maybe no one is there in the admissions right now to see exactly when the applications arrive anyway. Well, that's what I'm hoping. Anyway, just wanted to whine about that.
Hi all,
New poster, just looked at U. of Michigan's deadline, and it states:
The English Department will be closed December 24th through January 1st, although the deadline is January 1st.
I was about to send everything out today (12/28) next-day delivery. Am I too late? :(
@stumpy_32
no, send it. they just won't be there to receive the mail, but the mail should still be delivered.
Kaybay, I wrote the program director a long email (as I do to all programs) introducing myself, saying, "hey, this is what I'm looking for: could you refer me to any faculty that might share in such specific interests?" This director (Andrzej Warminski) just responded with honesty, saying, "we have nothing here for a student like you, so apply elsewhere." It was shockingly succinct, particularly considering how thorough and kind a rep from even Michigan was to me, but I do appreciate that he was so honest. At the same time, I had already submitted my online application and the $70 or whatever, so I wish I could get that back, but I figured fuck it, I cut my losses - I'll spend that time on other schools.
P.S. LSU's application really is confusing...it wouldn't be difficult for them to change a few words on the website to make it easy. They hardly say on there what's required, and I only recently realized that they needed a general LSU app submitted in addition to the departmental one. As a screenwriter, they asked me for a "substantial portion of a script." What the hell is that? I just sent the whole thing.
Is the MFA application process more involved, with less payoff, than any other graduate program? Or are they all like this?
i imagine this is sort of a silly question, but i'm looking to get a BFA in creative writing. i can't find very much on "top programs" as far as BFAs go; my research yields mostly MFA rankings. (indeed, even when others ask about BFAs, the MFA rankings come out.) while i anticipate getting my MFA at some point, i do need undergrad completed first. is it safe to assume that if it has a good MFA program, the undergrad program is decent as well? or do they tend to not correlate? how important is undergrad in the long run?
thanks!
@Dane
There are lots of schools that have great undergrad writing programs, but do not have MFA programs. So just looking for good MFA programs may not be the best bet. I also assume that there are some schools where MFA faculty don't teach undergrads, so the primary resources go to the MFA.
But ultimately, I would say that undergrad really doesn't matter. Find schools you like and then see if they have undergraduate creative writing. But you don't need a undergrad degree in CW or even in English to apply, though it might help you produce some writing.
Just as an FYI, UCSB has a undergraduate 'creative school' which accepts students either for studio art, music, or creative writing as undergrads and gives them sort of a 'grad school' like experience. I applied and got in as an undergrad. The program seemed lovely, the campus is breath-taking, the dorms were literally on the beach, the creative school kids got the same perks as the honor kids. Ultimately, it wasn't for me because I really wanted more of a liberal arts experience than I thought that would give me. But it might be a good fit for you.
Dane,
Your question is a fairly loaded one and and also touches on the often misguided question asked by parents of how useful is a degree in XYZ in the "real world"? While looking at undergrad programs at the same schools that house MFAs is a good start, you should double check to make sure that MFA faculty work with undergrads and not just grad students (if this is important to you.). Some colleges and universities also devote a fair amount of resources to undergrad literary publications which is also a good sign of a vibrant undergrad CW scene [Try searching through the Duotrope.com database of journals]. In most cases, MFA faculty will teach undergrads as part of their teaching responsibilities. On the flip side, some schools like Princeton have CW programs that are focused completely on the undergrad student body.
I'm not sure if this is your first undergraduate degree or not, but I think you should also consider the weight (perceived or actual) a BFA carries vs. a BA or a B.S on a resume and how much flexibility you would have in terms of exploring other interests (artistic or academic) at an art school vs. a liberal arts college or university. In other words, give yourself options to spread your wings. In the grand scheme of things, what is said on your diploma doesn't really matter so much as the culmination of experiences you had at a particular institution. Also, most MFA programs don't require that you have majored in English and/or Creative Writing, so I don't think you should feel obligated to go the English/ CW route esp. if you have other interests you would like to explore.
question for Alabama folks:
How did you mail a statement of purpose to the english department?
@Blob
go here:
http://graduate.ua.edu/application/index.html
click on "submit other requirements" a the bottom.
good luck! i finally finished this one today.
Did someone here have a website that converted pdfs to docs?
@ Blob
if you have the newest version of Word, you can do it when you "Save As" and select PDF instead of Word 2007.
otherwise, you can go to http://en.pdf24.org/onlineConverter.html
and it will email you a pdf of whatever you upload.
@farfromgone
Thanks, but I'm trying to do the opposite-- turn a pdf into a word doc.
Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas! I finished my applications last week and have been trying to give my brain a rest, though it's always floating in the back of my mind, that constant nervousness. Just curious, we are supposed to start hearing back from schools starting in mid-February right? As far as the FAFSA, I'm as confused as everyone else. It was my impression that we can't start the FAFSA until we receive our tax forms in January, but I wasn't planning to wait until I hear back from schools to start it. It may take schools a while to determine financial aid/funding and the FAFSA, I would imagine, plays a role in determining that. If schools are slower with their decisions, we won't have a whole lot of time before we have to give a decision and worrying about the FAFSA in the midst of all that seems like it would be stressful. I think we can just start as soon as we get those tax statements, so I'm probably going to do it as soon as I can and send it to all schools to which I applied. I've done zero research on this and am a total novice, though, so I could be totally wrong. If anyone has the info on that, feel free to correct me!
In regards to the discussion about funding/faculty, I didn't read into it that they were in competition of one another either. In my SOP, I was nervous about mentioning specific faculty and ended up avoiding it all together in favor of other draws of that particular program and why I felt I belonged there. If faculty is at the top of your list of most important aspects, I can see why you might comment on it, but I can also see how doing so and having it read by the wrong person wouldn't do you any favors (i.e. if there's some inter-departmental tensions).
Personally, funding is at the top of my priority list. I told myself that I would only go if I got decent funding to do so. I'd rather work another year, save money, and reapply than take out more massive loans. I went to a pricey undergrad and think of an MFA as the opportunity to have a few years of uninterrupted time where all I do is work on writing, but not if it means being buried under lots more loans. I'm sure many of you feel that way. I'm just as serious about the pursuit and the work that it requires, and want it work out as ardently as anyone else, but the practical part of me has an eye on the future and wants to make sure I act reasonably. But boy is it going to be hard to turn down an acceptance from my dream school if I happened to get in without funding. Hope I don't have to make that decision, but could totally happen.
Just had a dream that I received a manuscript back from UCLA (or some other southern California school that I didn't apply to) with a note saying, "I'm sorry, but we cannot read this manuscript." Why, you ask? Because my mother had taped a $1 wrapped around a $20 on the inner flap of the envelope. Lovely.
Sarah, if you really want to get neurotic about notifications (I know I do!) you can check this website out. The earliest you're going to here from a traditional residency program is late January, usually the very last week. Good luck!
http://driftless-house.blogspot.com/2010/02/2010-cw-mamfaphd-application-responses.html
oh, kaybay, i'd forgotten about that and was just thinking about it this morning, secretly glad I'd lost the link!
Oh my gosh, sorry guys!!! I can't believe it posted my comment 3 times and now I don't know how to erase 2 of them, haha. The computer at work kept giving me an error message, so I thought it didn't post and would keep pushing "publish comment." Ah well, technology doesn't like me.
And thanks KayBay, that's great! I do want to get neurotic, or rather, even more neurotic than I am currently.
@kaybay,
Why did you have to go and encourage neurosis?!?
Off to peruse that link...
I have a really URGENT question - I've couriered my writing sample for Syracuse but it hasn't been delivered because the department's closed until Jan 4th. However, the website says that writing samples need to reach them by Jan 1st. What do I do?
hey - is anyone here having trouble with Michigan's online recommendation system? My recommenders have all sent in their letters but only one got a confirmation; the other two say ''In Progress.''
Hi Hannah,
One of my recommenders had the same issue. She was confused because apparently there were two forms or you had to submit twice or something that I didn't really get the whole gist of over email, but anyway, she submitted again and it was fine. Maybe send a one of the reminder emails so he/she can re-register or something?
Hope it all gets fixed. Michigan stressed me out because they had a hard deadline and their office was closed for the week before it, but I'm sure for a technical snag it's not a big deal.
Okay, here's a stupid question. But I'm hoping someone on here can help me.
Which sentence is correct:
". . . the upper limbs had begun to shade out the fruiting wood below which were covered in . . ."
". . . the upper limbs had begun to shade out the fruiting wood below which was covered in . . ."
@ winter
if the limbs were covered, then were, if the wood was covered, then was
@ Kaushik
I'm assuming the problem is that you've used a courier service and since the office is closed there's nowhere for them to leave the package?
If so, couldn't you just Express Mail the materials tomorrow or even Thursday? With the university closed for the holidays, nothing that's not already there is going to be in the physical office by 1/1, but one would think that just having it in the Syracuse mail stream by the first would be good enough.
@ Clever Screen Name
Since I'm sending materials from India, that's not an option. Any other ideas?
@ Kaushik
Ah, didn't realize you were out of the country. If it were me, I'd consider doing a couple of different things. The first would be emailing the materials to someone I know and trust in the States and asking them very nicely to Express Mail it for me.
If that's not an option, I still wouldn't give up. Again, speaking only for myself and with no inside knowledge of SU and how understanding their staff may or may not be, I would simply have the courier deliver it when he university reopens on the 4th and send a brief and friendly email to Christopher Kennedy explaining your circumstances.
Let's be honest: no one is going to go through them prior to the 4th anyway. And if a program is so regimented that they won't make an exception for someone in your circumstances, especially since it wouldn't slow their process down one bit, I would probably figure it's not the right program for me.
@ Kaushik
Thank God I just read your post. I completely overlooked that bit about the January 1st deadline. However, reading the Syracuse website makes me think that this is the post-marked deadline. The wording is a little ambiguous: "...applicants must SUBMIT a writing sample on or before January 1st." That could indicate a postmark date, it could not. However, since they say they're closed, I think that as long as our samples are in the mail (and certainly on their doorstep when they return from break) we should be all set.
Hey, I had a conversation with my boyfriend last night after watching True Grit (which was awesome, by the way :D) about the value of an MFA. I'm curious, after that conversation, about what you all realistically expect to get out of it.
I know most people will say "time to write," but it seems you could find a menial job that pays more than most TA stipends that would afford you a decent amount of time to write and you would be able to focus on it since you wouldn't have to worry about your job. Have you tried working a less hectic job while focusing primarily on your writing? If so, how did it go?
Then there are those that say they want connections, an easier path to publishing, experience with journals, etc. Do you assume that you will be able to publish regularly and make a living writing or do you expect to return to your work and publish whenever you can. Do you expect a book deal? Do you expect to make a legitimate amount of money writing?
For those who want to teach at the collegiate level, do you think you will actually be able to procure those jobs, even though they are so limited? Do you actually want to teach because you love teaching or do you think academia seems like a comfortable place to be?
I'm not asking these questions to judge anyone who will answer yes to any of them. Frankly, I could answer yes to many of them. I wrote in my personal statements that I want teaching experience at a higher level, that I wanted experience with journals, that I wanted to work with writers and hone my craft. What did all of you say??
I wouldn't say I'm doubting the value of the degree, but I would love to have an honest, realistic, practical discussion about what everyone's long-term goals are. Human beings have a tendency to be short-sighted (guilty!), so I'd love to talk about what the hell we're all doing :P
@kaybay
Mary Oliver's response would be:
“…if I was going to be a real poet – that is, write the best poetry I possibly could – I would have to guard my time and energy for its production, and thus I should not, as a daily occupation, do anything else that was interesting. Of necessity I worked for many years at many occupations. None of them, in keeping with my promise, was interesting” (A Poetry Handbook 120).
However, for me, surrounding myself with other writers and dedicating myself solely to the written word for (hopefully) 2 or 3 or 4 years is what I'm after. I'm not worried so much about the job market, mostly because I intend to get a PhD after my MFA (if not in conjunction with - c'mon Cornell!). And yeah, even with the PhD it may be hard to find a decent job, but by then who knows where I'll want to be. I'm just focusing on the present, and the fact that I've wanted to do this since I was a teen. Now I'm 40. It's time. I have been out of my undergrad for only a few months, and I've written a good amount (especially given that I have been working on these applications for what seems like FOREVER). I am lucky in that central Kentucky has a fantastic literary community. Something is always going on - classes, workshops, critiquing groups, readings, etc. And (!!!) the people here are genuinely supportive and welcoming of one another. Cool. So, yes. I could stay here (doing what I'm doing, which isn't exactly what I want to be doing workwise, but is close) and write a ton. But. I'm just not willing to compromise. Not yet.
None of that probably made sense, but it was a delightful distraction from the Michigan biographical statement which I'm still very much avoiding. :)
@kaybay: I'm definitely applying to the program first and foremost to buy time. Since I graduated from university a few years ago, I've worked a series of low-pressure jobs so I could save time for writing. In fact, a little over a year ago, I broke up with my boyfriend, moved 3500 miles away from my family and all my friends, and took a silly 9-to-5 reception job specifically to have time for my writing. And it helps, some, but realistically, once you factor in morning commute, tidying up the apartment, showering, eating, etc., I really only have 30-40 hours a week to write. That's just not enough. And, I mean, that's in a lifestyle with no relationships, not going out, no other hobbies -- things are pretty bare-bones over here.
With a funded graduate program, on the other hand, you're paid to teach, study and write. The whole forty hours a week of my life that are currently eaten up by the job that puts a roof over my head -- bang! Gone! I can spend them doing the thing I love, and maybe actually find a little time left to have a life. That's why I'm applying for an MFA program.
Then again, there's also the appeal of being able to socialize in and share work with a community of people who think constantly and critically about literature. Literary friends and ad hoc workshop groups are great, but what a blessing to have a few years to nurture what will hopefully become life-long professional relationships with people who are just as crazy as you are about literature.
Then again, I might be a little biased toward the ivory tower. After a few harrowing years in the real world (awful), my plan after an MFA program is to apply for creative writing PhD programs, then fellowships, then trying to get into professionally teaching on the collegiate level. In the years since undergrad, I've done a bit of teaching and tutoring and absolutely adore it. Between that and writing, I simply can't imagine a more exquisite life.
Anyway, mileage varies, but that's my two cents on why I'm applying.
Kaybay,
I have in been working a low paying-low hours job (way less than TAing) since March, and it has given me incredible time to write and think and all of that. However, at this point my main connection to a writing community is a few friends scattered around and what I read. So a big part of getting an MFA for me is being around a community of poets. I do also plan to teach writing in some capacity after I graduate, but I think teaching writing is one of the things in the world I'm best at (which may not be saying much).
That being said, any money I make with my writing will be extra money as far as I'm concerned (the realities of poetry), which in some ways takes away a lot of the pressures of publishing, and makes it more about getting your work out there for people to read, which is the whole point in the first place.
Kaybay
Re: What you expect to get out of an MFA
Speaking as someone who just finished their first semester, here are my thoughts.
1) Have you tried working a less hectic job while focusing primarily on your writing? If so, how did it go?
Yes, but this path can be perilous esp. in the current economy. People in large metropolitan areas already have access to a vibrant, creative community but the trick is to balance the creativity with sustaining a reasonable day-to-day existence. I lived in San Francisco for several years after graduating and if you name a random job, chances are I probably did it at some point. Did I meet a lot of interesting people? Yes. Did I get a lot of writing done? Sort of. Did I grow as a writer? Probably. Was I stressed out about money? All the time. Draw Backs? I wondered about the poser/ wannabe vs. actual artist ratio and often wondered where I stood. Also, there were distractions 24/7. Positives? Really easy to network and meet very accomplished individuals. A lot of distractions. Working and writing made me cherish what little time I did have for writing and helped me strike a balance. The stress of trying to work as little as possible to support my writing led me apply to MFA programs.
2) Then there are those that say they want connections, an easier path to publishing, experience with journals, etc.
While there is something to be said about networking and knowing people (which can certainly happen outside of an MFA program), I don't think many would agree that an MFA in and of itself provides an easier path to publishing even for the best writes coming from the best programs. Sure, pedigree and connections can help to some extent and maybe crack open a door or two but at the end of the day it's all on your writing.
(Cont'd)
3) Do you assume that you will be able to publish regularly and make a living writing or do you expect to return to your work and publish whenever you can.
This sort of relates to what I really want to get out of my MFA. Publishing is hard for anyone. Rejection happens at all levels of a writers career. For me, it has historically taken me about a year to 1.5 yrs from conception to publication. A lot of that time is just letting a story "sit", so I can slowly make realizations about what I have written and chip and mold plot/ characters/ voice etc. to where it needs to be. I'd like to lessen that time. I'd like to be a better critic of my own writing without having to distance myself so much/ for so long from any given piece.
4) Do you expect a book deal? Do you expect to make a legitimate amount of money writing?
I certainly don't expect a book deal, but I hope to have completed and polished manuscripts ready to submit to agents and publishers by the time my 3 yrs are up (at least that's the grand plan). I don't think anyone expects to make a "legitimate" amount of money from writing alone. Sure, there are the small handful which make the big bucks w/ film rights to boot but even the likes of George Saunders has said that most of the writers of his generation are now supported by universities.
5) For those who want to teach at the collegiate level, do you think you will actually be able to procure those jobs, even though they are so limited?
This depends on publications. Most tenure-track (and even full-time temporary (year or more) gigs) require significant publication in the form of at least one book and/or a string of journal publications/ honors etc. Realistically, I'll probably apply to a few fellowships, a few Phd programs, and a few teaching jobs (even for Writing Centers, secondary schools, non-profit organizations etc.). There are a lot more jobs out there than people probably realize (that aren't necc. tied to CW but that the MFA degree helps prepare folks for.) Still, it's a jungle out there, and I'm planing on keeping my options open with regards to jobs and pursuing further degrees to make myself more marketable. It's a jungle out there.
6) Do you actually want to teach because you love teaching or do you think academia seems like a comfortable place to be?
A little of both. While writers flourish in all sorts of environments, I personally think that academia is a nice way of having your cake and eating it too. Arts non-profits/ community organizations are very attractive to me for similar reasons.
Kay Bay,
I pretty much agree with everyone who has just responded to the question of why we're doing this and what in the world we hope to get out of it. I have no illusions that getting the MFA will suddenly allow me to publish a book and become a famous author or have my pick of any top university teaching job, though I do hope that after the MFA I can go on for a PhD in Literature and have done well enough to find some kind of work as a teacher, whether that be at a university, a junior college, or what have you. Academics have always been a love of mine. I feel like that is my place, like I fit there like I don't fit in other industries. The happiest times in my life have been when I've been enrolled in classes where I'm learning something new and producing work that makes me proud.
It's been a long process coming to the decision to pursue the MFA. I've been out of undergrad for almost 4 years, and in that time have been bouncing around as a temp and as admins at various places. While you do have some time to write, spending 40 hours of your week answering phones is still a big chunk of time, and it is boring. Like Kat said, factoring in my 2+ hour commute everyday, plus meals and all the other errands and chores that come up, it's tough to find substantial writing time. I'm exhausted by 10pm from just the tedium of the day. For me, also, some part of the decision has been the desire to call myself a writer. I know you can be a great writer without ever pursuing a degree in it. Loads of people have done it. But personally, I want the small personal validation of knowing I'm professionally pursuing the thing that makes me happiest in the world, rather than being a secretary who writes sometimes on the side. I am not married, don't have kids, and figure if there is any time to uproot myself, this is that time.
In the end, the thing that pushed me over the edge with my decision, is that life is short, as cliche as it sounds, and I want to experience things that make me happy and feel fulfilled. I feel that even if the degree amounts to nothing - no jobs, no publishing opportunities, etc - the couple of years spent pursuing it and the things I will learn along the way will be worth it.
@Kaybay
I've got to second Sarah's comment. I've been out of undergrad for 3 years. During that time I've worked in retail, and I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling like it is super difficult to get into the right mind-set to write after an 8 hour day at work, whatever you do. Actually, retail was so horrible it ate up my entire day; I'd wake up dreading it, I'd be on my feet all day working, and at night I couldn't summon the energy to have fun, much less write. "Saving" my energies for the weekend wasn't great either. Tough to feel like you're a disciplined, productive writer when you feel like you've been "slacking" all week, creatively.
So, yes, my main reason for applying to MFA's besides the opportunity to learn, grow, and connect: time. And funding (money) literally equals time. Not that I expect things to be so much easier with a degree when I'm back in the workforce, but at least I'll have had those couple of years to improve and strengthen my writing.
@Blob: To convert PDF to Word, I use this site:
http://www.freepdfconvert.com/convert_pdf_to_source.asp
Invaluable for the Iowa financial aid form!
@Trochilidae
Oh yes, I feel your pain. I worked in retail at one point too and it was fairly soul-sucking and was so awful that it would haunt my mind even when I wasn't at work. I would just be dreading the time I would have to go back. I dreamt of cash registers.
I had another job recently where I was filing all day. I thought to myself, what a great way to be working and then have my mind free to think about my book. No such luck. I felt like my brain was dead. I could not think creatively at all...it just wasn't conducive to it.
So...thanks to Kaybay's evil link, I now know that the earliest notifier on my list is likely to Alabama, followed by Wash U and UMass.
BRING IT!
@Sarah re: soul-sucking
Yes. I used to call my workplace the Creative Void. I started as a cashier and switched to a different department where I had more autonomy and responsibility (read: more interesting things to do) but it was still your basic, spirit-whipping nightmare.
On my days off I would relish sitting down. Sometimes I'd write, but it seemed like my poems were a little tainted by how bitter I'd become...
On a happier note, I quit my job in order to apply to programs and it's made me so happy. Poor, but happy.
@Kaybay
re: why are we doing this?
Honestly, I don't know. I don't know if I'll end up having to go back to a real world job. I don't know if I'll be able to make a writing life or if I'll find one of the elusive teaching jobs (though I really do love teaching and would happily teach high school, or gulp, maybe even middle school).
But what I do know is that if I don't go for my MFA I will spend the rest of my life wondering 'what if..?' and that's reason enough for me to go at with full confidence that it's the right thing.
I just received an email from Wash U. The subject was "MFA application for Washington University in St. Lois" (ha, just noticed the Lois), but the body read:
Your application for the Doctoral Program in English Literature at Washington University-St Louis has been received. Your file is complete.
I wish you the very best as you search for the right program.
This is...interesting. I'm not sure what to make of it. I did not apply to the doctoral program. I thought I remembered the application asking if I was interested in a doctorate, and if so, I would have said yes, but I applied for the MFA only. I am wondering if they just forward this info on to the doctoral admissions committee or something...otherwise, the email makes no sense to me!
Oh well...anyone else get a similar message from Wash U?
Thanks guys! Good stuff, good stuff...
I have to echo what blob said. I think it would be better to spend three years on the degree and say to myself "that wasn't really worth it" than never attend a program and feel like I should have gone.
My biggest fear is that I'll be more concerned with not having enough money that I'll be more focused on it than on the business at hand. I don't want to go into debt and while I know it's possible to not to, I do have two dogs, a car payment, and a student loan from undergrad (it's thankfully not that much, though). I guess it all depends on how much of a stipend I get (assuming I get in anywhere) and how much debt I'm willing to/have to go into.
I do want a few years to focus solely on my writing. Whether I grow at all as a writer from workshopping/faculty is yet to be determined, but I think the fact that everything centers around writing can only help.
Professionally speaking, I teach already, so whether I teach at the secondary or postsecondary level just depends, I guess. The degree might help me a teeny bit but it's certainly not going to guarantee me a job. Neither did my philosophy degree, though :D
I don't know, we'll just have to see what happens. I'm glad to see that you guys have thought this out so much. Not that I didn't think people would, but I'm glad to see that the passion is there without sacrificing a sense of being grounded. The comments help to make me feel better about still wanting to go, too :)
Oh, and blob, muahahaha about that link. It totally is evil, by the way. It makes the week of a notification about the most painful thing EVER. Last week of January is going to suuuuuuck because I'm pretty sure at least one of my schools will notify then and it would be the first week of the notification season. BUTTERFLIES!
On a funnier note, I thought it would be nice to share a funny anecdote: I was eating at Burger King today and saw a sign in the back directed to their employees saying the following:
NO:
side-talking
side-working
ROBOTS
MAGIC WORDS
I SWEAR TO GOD it said that. Then the person I was having lunch with and I had quite the fun time trying to figure out what the hell that meant.
I couldn't make it up, folks!!!!
@kaybay
Good news on the undergrad student loan part anyway...I believe that your loans are deferred while you go on to attend school, so at least you won't have to worry about making monthly payments while doing the MFA. Then when you're done with your degree, you can just pick back up where you left off.
Sarah - that is good news about the loan. That's $50 a month I won't have to worry about :) I'm hoping to pay off my credit card debt so that I just have my car payment to worry about while I'm there. Still, that's $212 a month. Gulp. That's like a quarter of most stipends!!!
I refuse to believe in that january week. I REFUSE to believe in it. My insanity will have to wait until Feb. 1st.
God, I hope I get in somewhere, anywhere.
Just mailed off the last of my applications. I feel good, sort of...
Congrats, Blob! Let the waiting begin...
Most of me really wants the results, but a small part of me doesn't mind the waiting so much, because right now, before I've heard definitively, I can imagine/pretend that I'm accepted to all of them.
@ kaybay -
for me, the mfa is another chance to throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. i get time to write, i [hopefully] get better at writing, i get teaching experience, i get to not pay off my student loans for 2/3 years, i get to make more connections... any one of those things is worth it on its own.
@the Pensive Monkey: I did receive a confirmation email from Wash U saying they'd received all my materials and that my file was complete, if that helps - but this was for the MFA, and they said so. I don't remember an option on their app for applying for a doctoral program, but if you clicked yes or whatever on something like that, maybe they upgraded your application.. which would be very odd.
@Kaushik: Good to know someone else from India is applying too! As for the deadline thing at Syracuse, unless the specifically say it's a
"received by" deadline, I think the wording of it means mostly that it's just a postmark deadline. But (and I'm sure you've already done it) the best thing to do in a confusing situation is simply to write to them, tell them nicely and ask what can be done next (as opposed to, ya know, it can't be done it at all). Best of luck!
I'm all done!
Columbia (Fiction)
NYU (Fiction)
I write for a newspaper in NYC, so I'm not willing to move and/or leave my job.
Pensive Monkey--
I got the same email from Wash U. I logged back into their apply online site and it had my name with MFA Writing on top of the page...so hopefully it's just a case of someone not cutting and pasting correctly? I hope?
ugh, I never got an email from Wash U...
While the waiting period begins, some of you might want to kill the time by sending stories/poems/essays out into the world. If you don't already know about it, take a look at Duotrope.com for a fairly comprehensive database of journals/magazines. [Some advice: The search functions can sometimes be misleading/ limiting, so it's a good idea to not search w/ a lot of criteria.] Additionally, there's a ranking compiled by writer Cliff Garstang which ranks journals according to Pushcart prize wins and special mentions. You can check the 10 yr rankings here and the 5 yr rankings here. Keep in mind that the Perpetual Folly rankings do not account for BASS, O. Henry, or other prizes, so just because a journal is ranked "low" doesn't necc. mean it is not competitive. In most cases, all of the journals listed are considered very competitive. Duotrope provides some statistics with regards to acceptance rates but perhaps one of the best ways to decide where to submit is to peruse a journal's website (or better yet pick up and issue) and see if you think your writing would be a good fit. Taking a look at contributor bios is also a good indication of where a journal may fall in the selectivity/ competitiveness spectrum (although my personal motto is to always start high).
And a plug for a friend of mine who has recently started a journal.
Prime Mincer is now open for submissions. The first print issue will be released in mid-March. Work (of a more pop culture variety) will also be showcased on the web.
Thanks, Sequoia, that's a pretty link :)
ummmm, I meant to say "pretty *neat* link," hehe
Does anyone know when we are supposed to be told about funding packages? Do we get the offer along with the acceptance letter? Or do they send a funding notice afterward, when they've gone through all the FAFSA applications? Same with TA-ships. Are those mentioned in the acceptance letter? May be a question with an obvious answer, but I just realized that I have no clue how this works. Thanks to anyone who knows!
@Sarah
In my experience (I've done this before) you find out about the funding situation when the offer is made. As in, they call you with the good news and you ask them what funding (if any) is on the table. Other times, snail mail comes with funding information.
I was told by different schools that the funding decisions couldn't be made right away because it depended on who decided to matriculate, how many students accepted their offers, etc. In other cases I was told outright exactly how much funding was available (which in the case of some NY programs turned out to be chump change).
I know that's a vague answer, but my impression is that if you've got great funding offered to you with your acceptance(s), that can't be taken away, even if you delay making a decision right up until April 15th. On the other hand, if you've been told you have a poor shot at funding, that could still change as other students decide not to take their offers, and so on.
Hope this doesn't add more stress to the waiting-game, but in some ways, the stress of making decisions about funding and offers is worse than the waiting!
note: I shouldn't say that programs "can't take away" funding once its been offered. I don't know that for certain, but it seems like it wouldn't be in their best interest (or yours) to do so, and I've never heard of it happening...maybe other app veterans or admins would know.
Funding very loosely means they really want you (but obviously no matter the funding, if they offer you a spot, they really want you). Don't let the messiness of funding scare you...keep the dream :)
@Alison,
Glad to hear I'm not the only one! I assumed the same thing about cutting and pasting, since the subject of the email did say MFA, and I also checked my app and it said MFA. Are you fiction or poetry?
@Blob,
You're poetry, right? I don't know if someone else will send emails out to the poets, but maybe that's why you haven't gotten a message yet.
Sarah,
For fully-funded programs, you don't really have to worry about the funding details b/c you pretty much already know what you are going to get. The exact numbers will either come with your acceptance letter or a packet that comes shortly thereafter. However, I should note that if you should be lucky enough to be accepted into two programs that really, really want you, there has been precedent to ask a programs if they could match another school's aid offer.
For programs that don't fully fund all of their students, you sometimes have to wait until all offers had been made/ confirmed/ rejected etc. or until the program has secured money from various sources. As others have noted, this means that you may be waiting for someone with full (or at least more) funding to turn down a spot.
Also, I don't think this has been mentioned here yet but keep in mind that TA positions and university grants/ fellowships/ scholarships may disqualify you (or significantly lesson) the amount of federal aid you receive via the FAFSA form.
hmmm, am I the only idiot not filling out the FAFSA?
I sort of figured that if we're fully funded, it's irrelevant.
Blob,
FWIW, I know very few people who actually filled out the FAFSA. If you are applying only to fully-funded programs and don't plan to take out any federal loans, it's not really necessary.
(cont'd)
However, if you want to be on the safe side (esp. if you are applying to programs that don't fully fund), it never hurts to have filled it out. Many programs regardless of how much funding you get seem to want you to fill it out anyway.
Great info everyone! Thanks!
@wandering tree
I'm clearly fafsa illiterate....
Can't I just wait to fill it out if a school asks?
Kat - thank you very much for the PDF to Word conversion link! :)
@Blob,
I only applied to fully funded programs, with one exception, but that school does fully fund if they grant you a TA-ship, which I am applying for, of course. And I'm not filling out the FAFSA. I know that during undergrad, we were supposed to try to get it done by March 1st, but then they'd always say that we could still get it in after that. Since I haven't even started on my taxes yet, and I'm not planning on taking out loans, I'm not too worried about it at this point.
@pensive monkey
Ok, that makes me feel better. That's sort of how I was thinking too.
In other news, I'm having a minor recommendation crisis. One of my recommenders has still not submitted my UT-Austin electronic recommendation, which was due Dec. 15th. The status check says the recommendation has been 'saved, but not submitted.' The recommender told me that he had completed them. But clearly he hit 'save' instead of submit. I emailed him around the 18th letting him know that the status was showing 'saved' and that maybe he needed to re-submit. I never heard back. And no change on his recommendation. I then, this week re-sent the electronic reminder. And no change. I really don't want to annoy him. But I also don't want my application to be dis-counted. Honestly, if they consider my application with only 2 recommendations that's fine. I just don't want them to see it as incomplete.
Sigh. I thought now that I'd submitted my last application, my stress would end.
I was also under the impression that if you're applying to fully-funded programs, FASFA is irrelevant.
The MFA programs are so anally specific about certain forms you need to fill out to successfully apply to/attend their program, I assume they'd let you know if you needed to fill out any extra forms in addition to getting funded via the program.
In other news, I'm watching Hey Arnold! and it's such an amazing cartoon. I'd love to be a published author and all, but if I could write for kids shows like they USED to show back on Nickelodeon in the good ol' days, I'd be content with that, too.
Um. So, I think I may have accidentally, procrastinated myself out of the running at UMich. I sent my paper stuff by post office express mail, because of the received-by date and because I am a procrastinator (see above). Except of course, it's closed, so the tracking confirmation just says they left a note. Anyone have any idea if they would accept that as "received by" even if it will not actually be there on the Jan. 1 date, but will instead be sitting sadly in the closed post office. I am filling out the mind numbing electronic app now and it feels kind of pointless. I am trying to console myself that I was never really in the running anyway, but it hurts to go out this way....
@Ramona
Same thing happened to me. Chronic procrastinator. Misread USPS' website. Got to the post office ten minutes before close to be told my package wouldn't be delivered til Monday after the New Year.
I resent the January 1st "received by" deadline. It is a make-believe deadline. Michigan's especially. "Our office is closed on January 1st, but we MUST receive your documents by January 1st. OR ELSE." Huh? What kind of bogus, ambiguous, half-assed instructions are those anyway? Everybody knows USPS doesn't ship holidays. So is your real cutoff Jan. 2nd or Dec. 30th? Or before your department closed for the holidays? What are we supposed to believe? I don't know. I just don't know.
Everybody should be like Arkansas:
"We accept applications with postmark dates beginning September 1, 2010 and ending January 4, 2011."
Crystal clear. Foolproof. I love you Arkansas. I hope you let me into your program.
Quick question:
should all documents be double spaced? I see Teaching Philosphy examples and they're single spaced.
Is anyone else applying to Colorado, Boulder?
I began to really explore the website and found this: http://www.colorado.edu/English/crw/course/mfa/index.html
where it says Admission Requirements (GRE) 600 verbal 5.0 analytic approximately.
I sent them an e-mail a week ago, asking about this, though they're most likely out of the office. What do you guys think? Do you think this is a requirement or not? Because my scores weren't that excellent, and I don't want to waste my time and money (I already sent them my scores without finding this part of the site). I can't tell if they require that because there is it says "approximately." It's really frustrating how obscure and scattered these MFA websites are.
What do you guys think? Do you think I should submit my app, tomorrow? Even though my scores don't quite meet that?
Stephen, submit. Approximately equals leeway. I applied there without meeting the writing score requirement.
Stephen - I had the exact same problem with North Carolina State! They said they didn't have a minimum, but said the average incoming verbal score was around 650. Well, I'm not even close to that, so I emailed asking if I would be overlooked for aid. It's been two months now and nada in the response department. Sooo aggravating. But I did end up applying, so we'll just have to see what happens.
I second Gena's advice and say submit. I think in the end, your writing is what will matter. I'm hoping that applies to financial aid, too :S
Is anybody else having problems with the Florida State online application?
I started mine several weeks ago, to get my recommenders registered. A few days later, my letters were showing up in their system -- but when I logged back in, the FSU grad app didn't show that I had registered any recommenders at all. So I re-registered them, hoping the system would find the old letters. I then filled out FSU's entire online application, including my sample, statement, etc., and submitted it along with my application fee. This was about a week ago.
Well, I logged back on today to try to check my status, and their system isn't showing that I've submitted my application, even though I have an email confirming my submission and payment! The application now is just showing my recommenders' letters and nothing else.
FSU's deadline is Jan. 1, and of course nobody's in the office today. I'll call them on Monday to find out WTF, but has anybody else had this problem? Was there a rational resolution? It just seems too weird ...
@Amanda
I'm not applying to FSU, but I have noticed that it is very easy to accidentally start two applications (I've started three at some schools without realizing it), so make sure you haven't started two, or possibly made two separate accounts: it can be confusing when applying to several schools.
re GRE scores: while my verbal and quant are ok, my writing score was 4.0. 4.0! and I'm applying to writing programs? I don't even begin to understand how I did so miserably. but I'm applying anyway and you should, too. ets simply doesn't get my poetics, obviously ;-)
I'm (mostly) DONE. (Need a couple of transcripts and have to mail a couple of envelopes, but everything else is in.) 20 of 20 MFA and 3 of 3 MA programs. Phew!
Good luck to everyone who is still applying!
I don't think the GRE is very indicative of a good writer, especially since the writing portion is analytical and the work we'll be doing in our mfa programs is creative. Totally different styles. I think that's why the schools themselves don't take them into too much account when looking at our applications. Not sure how much they go into determining aid, but I think as far as admissions go, they're pretty low on the list of considerations.
ABC,
Like Sarah said, GREs don't really matter. It's a formality. If you do well, standardized tests may help you qualify for university wide scholarships/ fellowships but apart from that no one is going to reject you for GRE scores alone. Even admissions officers at some of the best schools in the country admit that applicants probably put too much weight on the value of standardized tests.
Happy New Year to everyone!
We find out this year about our applications!
(I'm trying to be excited at this hour rather than terrified of the coming months. Yay?)
What, that's really scary that Boulder posts a minimum analytical writing score. I've been sending my GREs everywhere, because I was proud on how well I did on the verbal and quantitative sections and because so many people have told me the A.W. score does not matter at all. But I also got a 4.0. That's the 45 percentile! I have no idea how that happened either, but I was just assuming that my samples and recommendations would make it clear to the committees that I can, in fact, write. Sort of. Grrr, if they DO care about that writing score I am screwed!!!
@RamonaAge6 and @AlmondPunch
I'm in the same boat re: Michigan! I'm trying not to get too bummed until I call them on Monday and get some confirmation. I also saw the "note left" on the USPS website when I tracked my submission! Bummer. I did re-read the directions, and they did seem pretty clear that they needed stuff by Jan 1st...but then why not make the deadline the day before their office closes instead of a day in the middle of their winter vacation? Makes no sense. My friend is trying to convince me that they would absolutely have to take my application because it'd be ridiculous on their part not to, but I'm not sure...will call them on the 3rd and maybe try to blame the blizzard? Let me know if you guys get any updates on this.
I got a 4.0/45th percentile on my writing section too! I didn't think I'd done that badly, and it makes my score report look pretty odd considering I aced the quant and verbal sections. Apparently the score on your writing section is the average of a computer reader and human reader's scores. I wonder how well a computer can judge writing ability.
Almost had a heart attack. Thought I had submitted Illinois' SOP on Purdue's website. Can you imagine? Ahh.
Those of you over-thinking the GREs -- no need. Listen, I got a 4.5, it's embarrassing, OR it's just kind of funny, and then you eat pizza.
Did we ever make a call on Arkansas's deadline?
Their site says "We accept applications with postmark dates beginning September 1, 2010 and ending January 4, 2011."
Does that mean it includes postmarks on January 4th? Or do they need to be BEFORE 1/4/2011? Argh.
I wouldn't worry about the writing section. It actually measures your ability to follow directions more than your writing ability (I am saying that slightly tongue in cheek). For example, they want you to take a firm side on an issue, something I didn't do the first time I took the test, garnering me a 3.5 (yes, you heard me) on the writing section. Basically, I argued that both sides of the argument made valid points and seemed pretty viable. Opps. I didn't evaluate the argument in the way they had asked for. The second time I took the test I got a 5. Not perfect, but certainly better. So not to worry! You're just a rebel :P
I think we need a new mailbag or something. The conversation seems to have dissipated :(
@kaybay
I suppose it's sort of a slow time right now anyway. Most of us have our applications in or almost in.
And there's still a few weeks to go before we can really fly into the notification panic.
I was thinking about it earlier today and realized that odds are some of us will get in and that made me happy.
Re: Johns Hopkins SOP: Was I wrong in thinking the "critique of work" is of your own work. I wrote a critique of my own sample, should I have written a critique of another piece of writing?
Yup, I'm all done and just counting the days until someone hears something. I'm guessing two weeks.
@Blob - true. I just feel like last year there was a lot more talking going on. January had a slew of talk going on, on just about every subject imaginable, haha. I'm hoping that means not as many people are applying to programs this year (please, oh please, be the case!). If that is true, I will take less than active blog, fo sho!
I want to know how many applications came in this year. Last year it seemed like every program had a record number. I'd like to see those numbers go waaaay down.
@Eli - I didn't apply to Hopkins, but I remember reading about that requirement and yup, you did the right thing. Kind of a weird thing to ask, but I guess I see some value to it; it shows awareness, I suppose...
@Wandering Tree,
Do you think it's good to get your work professionally edited before sending them out into the world?
Just out of curiosity:
Does anyone know what happens after you submit to U of Arkansas? I know you just send in your writing sample in the beginning - if they like your sample, are you in? Or do you have to go a "second round" where they then evaluate your rec letters, SOP, etc?
Here's some blather for tonight: what's the most influential author you've read, and why/how has he/she influenced you?
For me, that author would be Stephen King. His novella, Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption, is the cleanest, tightest, most moving story I've ever read. More than painting florid metaphors or upending literary conventions with Gertrude Stein-esque ambitions, I just want to write a story that will be understood, remembered, and loved by anyone who picks it up. No big words, no obscure references to a 12th century treatise on the art of falconry in the Greek isles... just a good story.
@EGS - Arkansas' app process is a bit deceiving in that for the TA application, you have to send letters/GRE scores/transcripts, etc. You might want to go back to their website and give a good look at the TA application.
@AnotherJenny - for me, there is no author greater than Fyodor Dostoevsky. I second Nietszche (damn the spelling of that German's name!!) in that Dostoevsky is the only psychologist I've ever learned anything from. I've never read characters so deep, unique, interesting, and intriguing. I've never read stories that deal with existence and human struggle so well, especially with regards to the intellectual outsider. The religion, the nationalism, the gusto... Hm-hm, he's my dawg!
I *love* Russian literature in general, though. British literature is too boring to me, modern American literature tends to be too cookie cutter, and I haven't really been exposed to much else. I have a soft spot for early 20th century stuff, especially Tennessee Williams. I pretty much love every one of his weird ass short stores :D
Ooh, just one? I have to say that Jonathan Safran Foer has been very inspirational. But then a million more come to mind immediately...Shel Silverstein and Roald Dahl (as a child), Chuck Palahniuk, Jonathan Safran Foer and Dave Eggers.
Could we ever create something that means to someone else what our favorite work means to us? That's what I strive for.
I don't know that have any clear strong influence. But I do have favorites. Brothers Karamazov, is my favorite book, Kaybay, so I definitely feel you there. I think I take a little from everything I read. Hemingway and Flannery O'Connor were eye-openers for me.
But, the closest thing I have to an identifiable influence, though my writing is very different, is Lawrence Ferlinghetti. One of his poems is the first poem I ever read that really made sense to me and resonated in a way I didn't think poetry could. It's what made me pursue poetry.
I have yet to read Brothers Karamazov, but I totally need to! It's just a little daunting, you know. I started the first couple of chapters and really struggled to get into it, so lazy ass me ended up putting it down :(
I love Hemingway and O'Connor too, by the way. You have good tastes ;)
Gummy Bear,
@ Gummy Bear
Re: professional editor
That's really a personal decision and one that probably applies more to book manuscripts vs. short stories. While I don't doubt that some people benefit from hiring editors/ coaches, I personally think you would gain the most in terms of developing as a writer by just working on your craft, reading a lot, and getting some constructive feedback whether that be from a teacher or a peer. The process of drafting, re-drafting, putting a story away for a while in order to gain distance, drafting again, finally sending out, getting rejected, and sending out again is just part of the "game". One of the main benefits of the MFA workshop is to help writers become better critics of their own writing so that they don't need outside voices (at least until a story or book manuscript is in the hands of a magazine editor or publishing house editor). If you do decide to get some additional feedback on your shorter work apart from people in your "immediate circle", there are several places to turn to including Dzanc's Creative Writing Sessions and Gotham Writers Workshop. These types of places will help guide you vs. shape you (much like a workshop) so that you can make your story/poem/ essay your own and develop your critical eye. When you do submit, a lot of the same advice one hears on the MFA blog still applies: SPREAD YOUR NET WIDE (it's a numbers game in many ways) and DO YOUR RESEARCH. Submitting a single story or poem to 10 -20 places at a time (esp. if you are sending to very competitive journals to start with) is not a bad idea at all. Best of luck!
@kaybay
I applied for to be a TA for Arkansas, but I was thinking that that was separate from the actual grad school application.
I had a very sleepless night, which means my mind wandered in all sorts of places-- including, of course, this whole application process. So, it got me wondering, for those of you finished with your applications-- if you could/will end up doing this all over again, what would you do differently?
Here's what I would do differently, in no particular order:
1. Although I contacted my recommenders, finalized my list, and took my GRE on the early side I wish I'd started my actual applications earlier. Having to do them all so close to the end led to some errors.
2. This time around, any school that had the option of electronic or hard copy letters, I chose hard. Next time, unless my recommenders specified they preferred hard copy letters, I'd dot hem all electronically. It's quicker for them and it's much easier to track, which would give me a lot more peace of mind.
3. I'd throw in at least one or two tier two or tier three schools.
4. I'd focus more on my GRE.
5. I'd start seriously working on and drafting my SOP a lot sooner. It ended up being much harder and less up to my satisfaction than I would have imagined going in to the process.
Some things I'm glad I did:
1. Got all my materials to my recommenders early and at one time so it didn't drag on.
2. Making a master spreadsheet of application information, deadlines, program info, etc of all my schools.
3. Getting my GRE out of the way early.
4. Using completed works for my writing sample so that I didn't have to stress about the writing or editing process amongst everything else.
@ Blob -
Mostly starting earlier, both for the SOP and working on my sample. I really ended up doing 90% of the work for everything in about two months and I'm still feeling the pinch now. I'm only now working on my Iowa application [which is due, uh, today] which is horribly irresponsible of me.
Also, I'd def take the GRE again. My scores were embarrassing.
If I have to do this again, I'll just be happy that I won't have to do it while working, writing my thesis, going to school, and interning all at the same time. I'm surprised I still have any sanity left.
Blob,Pensive monkey,
In reference to the "What's your genre?" for Wash U question, I'm also fiction. So perhaps all Wash U poetry applicants can rest easier now.
Sorry about the delayed response! I tried to hide from my computer all weekend so I just saw this today.
so i'm filling out iowa's forms right now [again, last minute, etc] and i'm stuck on the people i've studied with. there's three lines and i've got one for sure but then i'm not sure about the others. do i put the people i studied with the most intensively? the ones who have the biggest names? the ones i feel most connected to? i'm guessing the biggest names, but then a few of those are poets and i'm a fiction writer... does that matter at all? ugh. i don't even know.
Happy new year everyone! I've just had an odd email from the English grad coordinator at Cornell. Apparently they didn't get my LORs, even though they were uploaded via web delivery on Interfolio. That's annoying but then, she emailed me again and asked for 15 pages or so of the novel I'm writing (in addition to my sample). I have no idea what this means. Was my sample insufficient? Why would they want more? I'm also worried because my novel isn't in the shape I'd like it to be in!
@hopefulscribe
i think that's great news! That must mean they like your work. They wouldn't ask for more if they thought you were a piece of crap! Excited for you (and kind of jealous).
also, I butchered your name, apologies!
Also, does anyone know if UMass does their TA interviews before or after admissions?
@ hopefulscribbler -
I'm with Blob here, that seems like an awesome sign! Although now I'm all worried since they haven't emailed me asking for more work... :/
UVA applicants:
Did you send an official transcript? I just checked my status and it says they've received everything but the transcript. I did upload a copy, but I can't remember if I even ordered an official copy yet...doh! I ordered a few and I don't remember if Virginia was one...I'm thinking not.
As I review the app, I see that it says, "Unofficial transcripts are used by Admission Committees to begin their review process but offers of admission are not binding until official transcripts are received and verified." I think I probably decided not to send an official copy yet. Man I wish I remembered! I was trying to be good about documenting what I was sending where, but I seem to have failed.
@ Katie Oh and others,
RE: IOWA
what form asks for the people you've studied with???? Do you mean in the manuscript cover sheet where it asks what writing courses you've taken in the past & who taught them? Or is there a separate question about specific people you've worked with that I'm not finding in any of my Iowa forms? Glad I'm not the only one sending my Iowa application at the last possible postmark date.. :)
First things first: I FINALLY got some of my apps submitted. Woo! This is such a load off my shoulders; now I finally have an SOP and other essays drafted and brushed-up. My other schools (all Jan 15 deadlines) will be much easier now these first few are out of the way.
In other news, I MISSED A DEADLINE. That's right, you heard me. You can all feel better about yourselves now. I had planned to apply to UNCW, but due to bad planning and anxiety and NYE and a slew of other things I didn't have my essays done in time for it. I only have myself to blame, honestly, but I can't let myself sweat it too much. Let's just hope one of the other schools takes me...
Re: Things I wish I had done...
- Studied more vocab for the GRE. Tons more. I did okay, but vocab was the one area where I seriously got screwed.
- Written a draft of my SOP much, much earlier. Like a month earlier.
- Used works that were ALREADY DONE for my writing sample. This is difficult for me because I haven't really finished anything. All of my work is either first-draft, or pieces of a greater whole. This probably stems from not spending enough time on my writing, but also from my ideas always growing into bigger formats: most of my ideas start out as short stories but then inevitably overflow into potential novels or novellas. Re: the story I submitted this time, I slashed it in half because half of it was just not working, and then was struggling to re-write it to a very high standard and with a deadline on top of all the other MFA stuff. Terrible idea.
- I would have researched and picked my schools better. I decided to apply pretty late (mid-November), so all the schools with December deadlines were pretty much out. Right now, the only school I'm honest-to-god excited about is UNLV. It's not that I'm not excited about the other ones, because I am, I'm just not 100% certain they would be perfect fits for me... but then, I guess, how could I ever be certain about that?
Overall, I'm probably a good example of how NOT to apply to MFAs. I decided to apply last-minute, got everything done in under a month, and spent a week studying for the GREs. Yay.
Re: the Johns Hopkins SOP: yeah, I did the same thing you did, after reading the instructions for it, like, 10 times over. I found it a little weird since no other school asked for an essay like that one. I also included an awkward final paragraph about my experiences with workshopping and editing, though I'm not sure if that was a good idea now since they only indicated they wanted to get a "sense of" your workshopping skills, probably just from the critique itself.
Also: did anyone else have trouble with UMich's essays? I was scratching my head over the notes on the SOP because it seemed to be more generally aimed at grad students in general, and then I had trouble separating my information into "academic" and "personal" since those two types of materials are so intertwined.
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