Oh man. I now know the sweet misery of the GNE. I got TWO today from different profs at one of my waitlists. They were so very encouraging that I'm trying really hard to keep my feet on the ground. ACK!!!
I shouldn't get my hopes up right? Remain on course to forget this school exists until some phone call or email tells me otherwise?
Yeah, Abbie! Is this the first time an Irviner has posted?
Woofenstein, I have to tell ya, I did the same thing (crossing off schools off my list based on lack of diversity in faculty composition gleaned from website). It didn't bother me much, tho, because (1) as you said, the literary world isn't exactly overrun with ethnic diversity to begin with, and (2) I still, none-the-less, found many programmes I'd want to be a part of. Even some, frankly, with a not so terribly diverse faculty makeup. It primarily came down to what I found of some their writings, and what of that genuinely excited me. I do also agree that the stories I sometimes come across in lit mags are . . . somewhat tiresome. There are genuinely good stories that still manage to skewer my mind, but then there are other times I feel an overwhelming sense of déjà entendu. And not really subject matter, but style. There seems to be a pervasive premium on keeping things terse and clipped. Raymond Carver or die! I've had a disheartening number of experiences in workshops where colleagues will read a piece of mine, chew on their tongue for a moment, then suggest that I read Cheever or Carver or Hemmingway to help with my writing since, apparently it's a bit highfalutin and not very "American." ???? Still, none of this ever bothered me too much. Most of my experiences with fellow aspiring writers have been much more constructive. I think many of us on here understand the very protean nature of language and the very different style its application naturally yields.
I think I totally screwed myself over. Was accepted to Columbia, and just now re-read the email about submitting my FAFSA. I already submitted it, but apparently the School of the Arts needed another form? And it was due on Feb. 15th without exception?
Maybe Columbia only accepted me because they thought I didn't need their funding. Unfortunately, that couldn't be further from the truth as both of my parents are currently unemployed (not by choice). Still can't believe I can't talk to anyone about this until tomorrow.
Well, I guess this could be good news for anyone who gets on a Columbia waitlist. I won't be able to attend if they don't even consider me for aid.
I know you have expressed strong disapproval for the funding situation at Columbia in the past. I am curious if you can share your thoughts on the program itself (workshops, faculty...etc.). I understand that in some ways, particularly in terms of who will decide to attend, funding affects the program quality. But if you were to focus purely on the education/writing experience students receive there, what are you thoughts?
Two good questions, but I do think they're separate ones. I probably wouldn't advise anyone to apply to those schools ex ante unless the applicant had a severe geographic restriction that could not be overcome (e.g., I've worked with applicants who had health issues that forced them to apply only to programs in California). But if, having applied to such a program and gotten funding, one is trying to decide whether or not to go, I think the question shifts to one of priorities. Say one already has a book or two and just needs the MFA "credential" to get a teaching job--I could see that person leaping at the first MFA acceptance they received. Or say someone felt strongly that unless and until they had a swath of time just to focus on writing they would not be able to improve--and they felt that if they didn't get that time immediately they would probably give up writing forever. I could see that person being in a rush. Or if someone was simply so dead set on staying in San Francisco that these programs are the only ones they'd ever apply to anyway. Or if one had a special pre-existing relationship with a faculty member. Or if one literally thought one would not have the money to apply again for many years (I've actually worked with applicants for whom this was the case--the money they applied with was the last discretionary money they would have for a long, long time); in that situation I could see someone taking a funded offer at a school like the ones we're discussing in order to not have to wait years to re-apply. Or if one was dead-set on the art-school model--only CCA, CalArts, SAIC, Otis, Savannah, and Iowa (at a stretch) really have that, perhaps one or two I'm forgetting off-hand, so in that case the person might see CCA as where they wanted to end up anyway. Some people literally are in a bad spot in their lives and just need a change--right now. So there are countless reasons why, having gotten funding from one of those programs, one might decide to go. But if one is concerned about cohort quality; if one wants three years to write instead of two; if one wants to avoid significant surprise loans (as even fully-funded programs in high-cost locales sometimes leave a student short-handed come end of semester, and they find they do need to take out some loans); if one is worried about reputation; if one wants to apply to doctoral programs and knows/believes that Master's pedigree may matter in their application (particularly if it's to a traditional Ph.D.); if any of these, or many other such factors--one wants a small program, a more lustrous faculty, a program with a strong placement history--I think, yes, one would need to consider applying again if one felt one's work was not yet either a) at its pre-MFA-application pinnacle, or b) being judged by a broad enough swath of adcoms for the applicant to feel certain they had really "tested the waters."
@Violet
I'm afraid I've already written about this at such length that to go into it again would earn me accusations of piling on. Suffice to say that the first sentence of any non-funding-related assessment of Columbia would include the fact that Columbia is 1277% easier to get into than Cornell--another Ivy League MFA just a few-score miles away. That's 1277%, not 277%. The idea that this doesn't have any effect on the community or day-to-day workshopping experience at CU... well, you can imagine my views on that. Or the fact that Cornell has a 4:5 student to full-time faculty ratio (again, yes, you read that right: 4 to 5, not 5 to 4) as compared to 7+ to 1 at Columbia. Anyone who thinks (and I'm not saying you're suggesting this, Violet, just speaking generally) that the objection to CU is only about funding hasn't followed the debate over, in addition to the above, the program's two-year duration, the program's academic focus, the program's declining placement statistics &c &c...
Thank you for talking more about the SF programs. What about CCA/USF/SFSU vs low res? For someone who either wants/needs to stay in SF or do a low res, would you advise toward low res? Or perhaps no program at all? Thx!
Perfect. Thank you so much. SF is home to me, and I have been away completing my first Master's for several years, thus I really am wanting to return. However, I do not want to base my decision on an emotional pull. I have copy/pasted all of you comments on the subject in a doc, and once I hear from the remaining 8 schools on my list, I'll be able to make an educated decision.
@Ali-sorry about the letters. I should get mine tomorrow, then we can commiserate @Ratiff-wow, bummer ticket. I know the area well, my daughter is in school there @Patrick-did you hear from Oxford?
re: Iowa City I'm not sure what is posted on Craigslist right now, but I can tell you that I have not seen any double wides in Iowa City proper (although I don't doubt there is pre-fab housing in IC). There is plenty of good college housing options at what I consider reasonable rates (certainly in line with other Midwest college towns). I rent a nice, older home with hardwood floors throughout and a large fenced in backyard for my dogs for 1200 a month. It's more than enough room for my wife and me. I realize that's a fair chunk of change if you don't have someone splitting that check with you. There are plenty of houses like this, but if roommates are not an option there are similar homes with efficiencies or broken up into apartments for 400-500 a month. I'm 7 blocks to the football stadium and 1.4 miles to the English-Philosophy Building. That's about a 20-25 minute walk for me at a quick clip. It's under a 10 minute bike ride. We found our house on Craigslist, but we also used an assortment of other online avenues to look including the local paper, The Press-Citizen.
I'm not high on Coralville either. C-ville has quite a bit of new housing (i.e. the suburban nightmare where you might be apt to walk into the wrong house drunk because they all look the same). I will also be the first to admit that I have a strong distaste for tract development. What I said about Ann Arbor in a previous post, also holds true for Iowa City. There are farm houses available if you are looking for that quintessential Iowa experience. Woon mentioned West Branch; I would throw out Kalona, Tiffin, Riverside, and the Hills. I also came across farm houses with the IC zip code going out 6 South and out 1 to the Southwest. The ability to afford these might depend on having roommates, and/or a significant other with employment.
As a lit junky, Iowa City is a great place to live for a couple of years. The hardest part is not blowing a small fortune every time I walk into one of the great used bookstores or Prairie Lights.
I heard this afternoon by phone. I really wouldn't worry though, because I was told that I was the first person they have notified for poetry and that they'll be doing it officially (read: grad school approved) this week. Also, that they don't know anything about funding yet.
I would love to hear from anyone who got into a top 20 ranked school with (1) a novel excerpt as your only sample - no story, and/or (2) an aesthetic that is not domestic realism. trying to figure out if there is any truth to rumors about aesthetic at iowa, wisconsin, michigan etc.
I got a waitlist for Iowa in Fiction. They used the term "very short" waitlist. Does anyone have any clue how many students get waitlisted at Iowa??? I can't imagine it's a large number. More importantly, how many students move from the waitlist to acceptance? I would imagine that's an even smaller number. Any information is appreciated!
I got a snail mail waitlist letter for fiction from Iowa. They used the term "very short" waitlist. Does anyone know how many people Iowa places on a fiction/any waitlist? I can't imagine it's a large number. More apropos, how many people make it from the waitlist to the program? I surmise that's an even smaller number. If anyone knows anything, please let me know!
No, no call. Only a mailed letter. I've been dying to call and ask these ever-important questions, but everyone has told me to relax and not bother them. I've heard of almost noone else in the MFA blogosphere getting waitlisted to Iowa.
Re: agents (maybe this is an old topic now, but hey)
I'm an intern at a literary agency with offices in New York City, Boston, and DC. Everyone (including me) monitors literary journals, newspapers, magazines, (for example, I track Guernica, the Boston Review, Wired, Prairie Schooner, Exquisite Corpse, and more) etc. If a writer has an MFA, we look at the program (or they ask me about it, since I now know more about MFAs than I ever cared to). The primary agents are both lovely people who work very, very hard to balance their desire for good writing and compelling stories with their need to make money for the agency. It's a business. It's hard. But not all agents are lazy bums - my two cents. Seth's points were also very valid, though - I just wanted to chime in.
@sud- Yes. I received a letter dated March 5th which stated I was on a "very short waiting list for admissions."
I am, understandably, going out of my mind trying to decide just what exactly that means, how many people might be 'shortly ahead' of me, and if I have a snowball's chance of entrance this Fall. Any advice?
Also, for those waiting on Columbia (yaaaay more posts on Columbia) - it is a large program, so please don't panic if you haven't heard yet. When I was called, I was told that people would continue getting news over the next week. Don't fret!
Now back to crunching tuition/fellowship numbers and rereading "Trouble in MInd"...
I should specify - the presence or absence of an MFA isn't a dealbreaker unless it's your *only* credential, and even then, that's negotiable. Publish, guys. Publish, publish. Anything you can do to show your commitment to professionalism in your writing is important.
John-I'm probably not the best one for advice, didn't get into Iowa. But in my fantasy life, I put my $1,000 commitment fee down on one of the low res programs I did get into, then I get a call from Iowa and decide I can forget about the $1,000 because Iowa is fully funded and it's a small cost to go to my number 1 school. That's just my fantasy.
@Sud- I'd abandon a harvested organ to get into Iowa. I'd be happy to get into UVa or UNLV, or any of my other choices; but the gravitas of Iowa is unmistakable. If Iowa rejected me, I could move on, but I am in this limbo where I know they read and liked my manuscript, and I am on their radar. I now have to wait for the near impossible: an unspecified number of writers turning down their fiction seats at Iowa. Kidney transplant recipients might turn down their organ matches before that happens. But still, I have that nagging, pestering feeling of hope.
One of the Emmas that contributes to this blog was also waitlisted at Iowa. This doesn't help you, I know, but it's the only other info that most of us have about Iowa waitlists! Good luck to you.
@digapony- Thanks! Any information is better than nothing. I am somewhat pleased to know there is so little about Iowa waitlists. It gives me the impression (as quixotic as it may be) that it is something rare, and thus I still have a shot at Iowa in the fall! Thanks!
@all- Any more information on Iowa waitlist for fiction or anything else is still appreciated! Thanks.
I am the Emma on the Iowa waitlist. I know of one other for fiction, so that's three of us. I do believe that it's very short, but that's just my hunch.
How big is the program, i.e. how many people there are in each concentration?
Program size: roughly 35/year fiction; 15 non-fiction; 10 poetry -- I think, our year was a little bigger than average, with ~50 for fiction. Total is 1XX, not sure the exact number
Hilary - thanks for the information on Columbia. Logically I had already come to a similar conclusion, illogically, which I have a PhD in, I was freaking out!
Not to barge in on your comments above comparing Cornell and CU, but the two programs are totally different. Cornell is free, but requires at least a year of teaching to get the degree. Cornell also doesn't seem to offer writing courses beyond a workshop. And only accepts a dozen people a year.
Columbia offers high-quality instruction for a high price. Cornell offers low wages and a workshop in exchange for TAs. Both options likely appeal to some more than others. And where are you getting your information about Columbia's placement rate?
Yes...it appears we are in limbo. I have the impression one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. The Graduate Department is dragging their heels a bit? Are you local...in So Cal as well? Yes, it does seem we have a verbal OK, it's just not official, yet. Let me know if you find out anything! You can email me off line as well:)
@ Smoke-oi - I think the faculty student ratios Seth gave were for the MFA program itself. The ones from Princeton Review are for the entire university as a whole.
yees. no word at all from university of florida in gainsville-- no phone call/email/rejection in the mail-- their online status page is not working for me and people on this blog have commented about being sure that ufla has already accepted everyone they're accepting... yet, nothing to confirm rejection!
if you hear anything, please let us know, and i'll do the same. thanks, s
1. I agree they're totally different programs. But different does not mean equal. Different, in this case, means that one offers much more of what students want and need than the other. Columbia being such a large and expensive program is a financial decision made by the University -- it is not a pedagogical decision. It maximizes revenue. Cornell is not a revenue-building program; Columbia is. All lot of the differences flow from that.
2. The placement data is original research on the last 12 years of post-MFA placement. It can be found on my blog and in Poets & Writers.
3. Most MFA applicants want the teaching experience. It is personally rewarding but also helps one build a CV for future employment. Given the choice between a) paying no tuition and teaching 2 hours/week for a total of 30 weeks out of a 104-week span (roughly 28% of one's funded weeks at Cornell), and b) paying $84,000 in tuition and not working at all because one took out an additional $40,000 in loans... well, I just don't think those two experiences, or opportunities, exist in the same universe of discourse.
4. Cornell offers many courses besides workshop. But the difference between Cornell and CU is that the former knows that it's an art degree--it doesn't try to load students down with so many academic courses they think they're in an M.A. If one wants an academic M.A., one can get an academic M.A. -- but it's not clear why a Master of Fine Arts degree would be heavy on the academic courseload or why that would be particularly appealing to people who, if they really wanted that, could get an M.A. (or an M.A. followed by a CW Ph.D., which would allow one to take academic courses alongside workshops while earning an academic -- as opposed to art-school -- degree).
5. I don't think we have any reason to believe Cornell's quality of instruction is lower than Columbia's.
6. The OP is right: I was speaking of ratios only at the MFA programs at these two schools. And the data I gave is correct.
Given the differences between these programs I just don't think we can blithely say that either one will "likely appeal to some more than others." Paying $124,000 to not have the requisite time to write that is the very purpose of an MFA degree, versus a free degree with livable stipend at an equivalent Ivy League university is not a "pick 'em" situation, IMO.
P.S. Cornell will also hire you upon graduation for 1-2 years. No other MFA program in the country does that for its students, and again the very philosophy behind that policy is simply diametrically opposed to CU's fiction-focused "pay-to-play" system (where the implicit promise is that the tuition is "worth it" because what you get "in return" off your "investment" is a half a million dollar book deal in your 20s; needless to say, that implicit promise is a lie for 98%+ of CU grads).
this is me sending out good news vibes into the universe, with a special focus on columbia. and you know, new school and brooklyn because i haven't heard a peep from them and "its not over until its over" keeps playing on repeat in my head...
i am still torn between umass boston mfa poetry program and emerson. any thoughts??? anyone in the same boat??? anyone?? bueller??? bueller??? :)
Seth, do you know anything more about the two? Could you spare some time to shed some light?? My main goal other than becoming a stronger writer is also to teach--so the program that will afford me the most opportunities to do so is the most attractive (both do)...i think i just need an opinion of someone other than my husband, parents, or in laws--someone who is a writer and knows all the details about the writing world...
i am still torn between umass boston mfa poetry program and emerson. any thoughts??? anyone in the same boat??? anyone?? bueller??? bueller??? :)
@Seth,
do you know anything more about the two? Could you spare some time to shed some light?? My main goal other than becoming a stronger writer is also to teach--so the program that will afford me the most opportunities to do so is the most attractive (both do)...i think i just need an opinion of someone other than my husband, parents, or in laws--someone who is a writer and knows all the details about the writing world...
I could still technically hear from Brooklyn or NYU, but I'm basically just going into my mourning period now and I guess in about 6 months I'll start filling out my forms again.
Either that or I'll publish the greatest novel of our time.
Is there anyone else that hasn't heard a word from Michigan? I've already accepted Iowa's offer, but it'd be nice to have a rejection in hand, at least. That application took time!
@cecil people, I have a partial, renewable fellowship at Columbia (a little more than 1/3 of tuition) and I may or may not have access to other funds that would allow me to graduate with about $45,000 in debt (no, the "other funds" are not my parents, although I certainly wouldn't complain if they were). I could potentially work during the program, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the MFA, right? I want undisturbed time to write.
Otherwise, I would, indeed, be out about $100,000 in debt, which is simply not something I'm willing to do. The heartbreak of Columbia is that yes, it's a big program, but two of my literary heroes teach there and it's going to be really hard if I have to say no. I don't want to sound like I'm whining about getting in - it's really exciting and it's my first acceptance, and I'm thrilled. But I also have to be realistic about what this degree means and what I'm willing to put myself through to get it.
That's strange. I actually was an undergraudate at Hunter and had a blast, so I was surprised how rude and disorganized they are in the graduate sector.
I'm still waiting on Brooklyn (assuming rejection.) So, yes, I'm probably City College bound.
I apologize, I don't remember what schools you're still waiting on (with the exception of Hunter.) Best of luck with the rest, though!
I only applied to Hunter and to City Colleges due to financial constraints. Best of luck with Brooklyn. I almost had a heart attack because I had a missed call from a 212 number and I thought it might have been Hunter. No such luck. It was my pharmacy, calling to refill my prescription.
Rejected by Brooklyn (poetry) today, by mail. The rejection came from the English department and they said I would be getting ANOTHER rejection from the MFA program specifically (how nice of them?). The English dept. said that I should apply for their MA in English instead, for immediate consideration, which was nice of them and I would probably do it if I hadn't gotten other offers!
Last Fall 2009 when I was applying to MFA programs, I also applied to a couple of traditional MA programs -- one mediocre selectivity school and one prestigious school. The reason why I did that was, for a brief one-week period in December, I lost my head. I was convinced no MFA program would accept me and I wanted to go to school next year, so I thought, "The MA is nice." But I was fooling myself. I want to write. I don't want to be a literary scholar conducting research on Sexual Deviance of Henry James and Modernism in the Post-Aesthetic Movement Era, for example.
I have since gotten into the mediocre-reputation MA school and still waiting on the prestigious-rep school. But I'm not really waiting. I'm not going for a damn MA. It may be for others, but not for me.
I e-mailed University of Kansas to ask about my status (since I know some were rejected in February and I heard nothing) and I was informed that I am in fact on the waitlist there but that decisions have not be made for waitlisters yet, which is okay with me... It's just good to know where I stand! I didn't get any indication of how long that waitlist is. I imagine for any lurkers who may have been in the same position that I am in (those who hadn't heard either way) there is no need to call or e-mail and that you are in the same position that I am.
Got my rejection today from my one and only MFA program--Hunter college. Didn't realize (quite) how competitive this was going into it but I felt like i gave it a good shot. In fact, I poured my heart and soul into my application and they rejected me!! Oh well it was a good experience and I look forward to probably doing it all again someday. It's been a pleasure reading this blog and I wish you all the best in your writing excursions! Heerrio!
Came back from spring break expecting more news in my mailbox than what I got. Got a rejection from Indiana, which was expected, and got a letter from UNT where I have been accepted. It was dated March 9, and said that they want a decision within two weeks. Am I the only one who finds that completely ridiculous? I'm still waiting to hear back from six schools, SIX, and I spent a ton of money on the process as most of us did. I'm obviously going to ask for an extension, but it still pisses me off.
I'm also in at SLC...I have loads of questions, but I'm in for CNF. Do you have a friend in nonfiction I could contact? I also have general student/housing/financing questions and I do plan on attending the open house April 7th. Would you mind if I sent you an e-mail? Thanks!
I tried to trick Iowa into telling me my status but they didn't bite! I know its probably a rejection but how much longer does one have to wait arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
I got an email from Rutgers-Newark saying that I did not get any funding or financial aid. I'm going to turn down my offer there so a spot on the waitlist will be opening up. I'm also going to decline my unfunded offer from Pittsburgh.
I am leaning toward going to Emerson, especially if I get a good merit aid package there.
That's cool, Laura T. I finally heard that I didn't get into Pitt, and while I'm still waiting on the New School, I have decided to fly out to NY for SLC's admitted students day. So if you end up decided to attend that on April 7th, let me know and we can meet up! Sounds like you really like Emerson, but who knows--you may need to visit anyway. :)
Has anyone else been accepted to Florida Int'l for CNF or otherwise? I am strongly considering the program (pending funding) but I have heard next to nothing about FIU on this blog. Any opinions?
If you don't mind me asking, how were you able to do so much research? Any tips? I'm already getting ready for next year and want to make sure I apply to the right schools this time around.
to most programs I submitted one realistic short story and one story that could probably be classified as fantasy or magic realism. I was accepted at Montana (recently with TA/funding), waitlisted at Oregon, and rejected from Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin and Brown. (I was a ridiculously naive applicant, clearly! Oops.)
The "fantasy" story is part of a longer project, which I synthesized into a cohesive whole for most schools, but excerpted for Oregon.
I struggled over whether to use the non-realist story, since it is not as "good" as the more realistic one... but as I plan to keep writing both realist and non-realist fiction, I figured it would be best to be up-front in my writing sample.
I'm curious as to how that choice may have impacted the reception of my writing -- I know that most schools do not like "genre" fiction. I don't think that's what got me rejected, though, and I don't regret it.
I'd be interested to know if other people sent genre stuff, and how they fared.
Second, and I hate asking such a self-serving question, but does this mean you will free up a fiction spot at Iowa?
I only ask b/c I am on the waiting list for fiction, and it seems like a fate worse than death not knowing if I'll ever get from the wait to the acceptance.
Who would turn down Iowa for Columbia...? Except somebody with a buttload of money to burn and no interest in living in the miswest like Lady Gaga or James Franco.
Just called Iowa...the woman I spoke to sounded surprised that I hadn't heard anything yet and took down my name and address. I'm pretty sure my application isn't MIA because everything seems to be there on the site and it says decision in progress...I just wanna know where I stand, dammit!
Still waiting on Iowa, Florida, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Columbia, NYU, and UVA.
I didn't apply to SDSU, actually. I just wanted to know more about it just in case I decide I'll reapply instead of going to any of the schools I was accepted into.
@Ashley Brooke Weeeelll - I would. Not that I'd actually be accepted - just got rejected from Hunter today! But frankly geography has always been of huge importance. I've fought tooth & nail to stay in NYC over the past 7 years without financial support. I'd honestly rather go into massive debt than re-learn how to drive. Diff'rent strokes, I suppose.
Oh god, I just got an e-mail from Columbia. I'm in for fiction!!!
I'm high as a kite right now. I was really doubting myself and beginning to feel like nobody would take me. Turns out there is hope for all us losers after all!
So, for the info: acceptance via e-mail, March 22nd (just as they promised). An information packet should arrive by the second week of April, and I need to let them know by April 26th.
Thanks. It appears they're going to leave us poetry people hanging for a while longer. I'm sorry about the rejection. I've a feeling that's headed my way too, I just wish they'd get it over with already.
People still waiting on Brooklyn (fiction/poetry): I called and they assured me that applications are still under review; they will update the myenrollment page once decisions are made and so forth. I had to resist replying: "Then what was the $125.00 application fee for? taking your merry old time?"
My story is pretty similar to Emma's. I submitted one realistic-ish story and one that would most definitely be classified as magical realism. I got into Michigan, but have been rejected by the rest of the usual culprits (Iowa, Irvine, Madison, Cornell, and now Arizona). I think it's kinda funny that my writing appears to be quite polarizing - no waitlists at all. I really don't think schools discriminate down realism/magical realism lines, although work coming out of Iowa leads me to believe Iowa has a definite domestic realism aesthetic. I don't think that's the result of the program pushing people to write in one style, but the result of the kind of writers they first select. I really believe that schools choose not only good writers, but people they think they can teach. But in answer to your question, magical realism can get you into a top 20 school for sure.
Still waiting on the verdict from Florida and Virginia (Virginia only got the "realistic" story due to page constraints). If I had it to do over again, I would probably go more balls-out (and I'm a lady) and send two magical realism stories.
re: U Washington - I just heard from Judy LeRoux this morning in Seattle in response to my inquiry into TAships. She said that they only had money to offer 2 to incoming students this year and she believes one has already been accepted.
I can't remember at the moment who is trying to get funding there to stay with their gf (and I think you're ahead of me anyway), but I will be turning down my spot. I love Seattle but it doesn't seem like there's any guarantee of funding the second year either, and I can't swing that.
First, congrats to everyone hearing good news today!
I, sadly, do not appear to be quite so blessed today. Mail came late, so I don't have it in hand, but a phone call from my house has informed me I have a small envelope from Warren Wilson. Sounds like a rejection to me!
@amanda - I've been emailing back and forth with Judy about funding (on the waitlist) to the point where they had the Director email me in a polite attempt to get me to back off :) Ah, well...
Thanks for your response, Emma. I want to clarify that I'm not asking about "genre" fiction though. Jeffrey Eugenides isn't genre fiction, for example. Aimee Bender is literary as well. Now that most of these top schools have notified, I would really like to know if schools like Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Syracuse, Cornell, Michener, UVA (i.e. the fully-funded powerhouse schools) actually took anyone who writes something other than domestic realism, and I'd love to hear from people who applied exclusively with novel excerpts as well.
I have seen these two questions posed often over the years, but never as a poll taken after the admissions cycle had wrapped up. It would be useful to hear people's success stories here.
@ Franzine Kafka - P.S. I did my undergrad at Montana - that and Emma's acceptance with a non-realistic story lead me to say that they're very amenable to a little fairy dust. Also check out ASU. I didn't apply to either program for various reasons (Montana because I wanted a change of scenery, and ASU because I didn't want a 2/2 load - which they have now amended). Irvine has historically been very friendly to genre-bending, as have some of the Colorado schools.
Stella IV - I didn't meant to insult Columbia or anybody would choose it over Iowa... I was mostly expressing doubt that Arna would do so (or that your average I'll-go-anywhere applicant would), especially after receiving great funding offers elsewhere. I know a lot of people didn't even apply to certain schools for location reasons, and that I can understand.
@Liz and Amanda re: U of Washington Ugh those are not good stats! They haven't responded to my email asking about my place on a TA waitlist, so I'm not going to hold out much hope :(
Mailwoman just brought my Illinois rejection! Rather nice as far as these things go. Also called and learned I'm pretty low on Notre Dame's waitlist for the second year in a row, so I'll probably be removing my name. The spot's not going to lead to an acceptance, but hopefully they'll pass it on to someone else who will get some validation in this rough season.
@ Franzine Kafka
No top twenty acceptances here, but two acceptances and a waitlist in the twenty to forty range. I wouldn't recommend using only a novel excerpt. I did that last year and got a bunch of rejections. I think they want to see that you can close the deal, so to speak. I'd recommend two short stories or a story and an excerpt that can stand alone (I did the latter this year). Other can feel free to correct me, of course.
@Lexie Thanks for the condolences - I honestly wasn't tremendously optimistic about Hunter to begin with. Six slots for fiction and 300 people at the open house last fall... Waiting is awful, but being longlisted ain't too bad...
Florida State University information - Tara Stamm just wrote to me saying that the committee is deciding the waitlist and the deny list and will soon be emailing people with the decision.
@ Liz & Kate: Yeah, it really doesn't seem promising. I honestly wish I had known how paltry the funding opportunities were from the outset. I wouldn't have applied here if I had. The website led me to believe there were many different opportunities. In my opinion, two TAships for the entire cohort as the only means of funding goes way beyond saying the opportunities are "competitive."
I was accepted into SFSU last week. I am excited (though still anxious) to hear good news after what has been such a draining process for everyone here.
@Kevin and others who posted about SFSU
I feel as though we are all kind of in the same boat, figuring out how to further research the program. Living in the Bay Area, I'm planning to check it out soon. In the end, I would be thankful to be part of any program that feels like a good fit with a sense of community. I am fond of the idea of staying near my family and writing in San Francisco, but I keep reminding myself that the program needs to be right, too. I'm hoping to have good things to report after looking into it more; though, I'm also trying not to put a square peg into a round hole.
I'd love any findings you guys find about the program.
Congratulations to everyone on this blog for really putting yourself out there during this application season...That alone is cause for celebration.
@Stella IV - It's so unclear as to whether or not I'm long listed...it appears they have not been doing acceptances they way they say on their website. Oh well. I think I'm just being overly neurotic.
UMASS Amherst- accepted Brooklyn College- accepted University of Miami- accepted University of Texas (Michener)- waitlisted UNCW- waitlisted Brown- rejected Hunter- rejected Iowa- rejected Michigan- rejected NYU- ? UCAL-Irvine- ? U of Oregon- ? University of Virginia- ?
@ Franzine Kafka - I'm apparently very chatty this morning and feel the need to say that I don't classify (and I don't think Emma does either) magical realism as "genre" work. I think of Aimee Bender, George Saunders, Kelly Link, Karen Russell.
I was accepted into SFSU last week as well, and I think am having the same sort of worries as everyone else as well. What genre did you apply in? I'm in poetry, and would love to talk
also I'd love to chat with anyone who got into Columbia College Chicago about their thoughts on the program and Chicago in general-- I've kind of always had my heart in San Francisco, but Chicago doesn't seem like a bad plan B as well.
Did anyone accept ASU's poetry offer and then decline recently? Thinking of giving up your spot? Ha ha. Why is ASU not rejecting me if all the poetry spots were accepted? I assume that they are covering their butts in case someone decides to give up their already accepted offer? Kick me to the curb and be done with it -- the glimmer of hope seems more damning -- feeds the OCD in my check status soul.
Also, anyone know the odds of finding random funding at UNH even if you haven't been offered any? Maybe I should start playing online Poker!
Most of my manuscript is a historical fiction story (24 pp of the 25 pp). It's mildly experimental, moving from 1st person to 3rd person. It has some critical theory/historical exegesis passages. Some magical realism too.
So far: a finalist (later rejected) at Wisconsin, an unofficial wait-lister at Syracuse (pending, but no chance), and a wait-lister at Montana.
I wrote a crap-piece for an SOP. Even if I get into a program, I'm probably going to pay Driftless House $90 for manuscript feedback. I've had better luck this year than last (flat-our rejections vs. interest), but I went the perilous route of submitting without peer-review/feedback.
Was it risky to submit a long story (c.f. Arna Bontemp's warning), especially one outside the narrative trajectory of realism? I don't know!
If anyone was still waiting to hear from Alaska's low-res program in Anchorage, I just freed up a spot. Thought I'd passed on it weeks ago but via a comedy of errors that I'd probably attribute to Mercury if I believed in that sort of thing, communication has only been achieved just now.
Has anyone been accepted to Brown in any genre? Can it be that a school with a 'literary hypermedia' concentration somehow extended offers only to writers who eschew blogs?? while the totality of the waitlist (as I optimistically believe the unofficial waitlist numbers) has reared its neurotic head? Or maybe Brown herded the accepted onto a private jet and you're all floppy tropical islandy.
A huge CONGRATULATIONS to everyone who has gotten good news (and the accompanying validation) these last weeks and months. To those of you who don't fall into that category by the end of the season, I'm truly and deeply sorry. It's a crap way to start your career but it's hardly a career ender. You hopefully figured out that the committees aren't very good at scoping raw talent because if they were, people wouldn't get rejected across the board, write write write and then reapply or re-reapply to ubiq acceptances. Whether you reapply or not, the important thing, the only thing, is to write on...
The stories I used in my portfolio are all def. of the magical realist and fabulist persuasion. The stories play with form and slip into metafictional narrative at times. The two programs that accepted me received one 30 page story, and I probably knew more about the work of at least one faculty member and at least one alumni at those programs than anywhere else. While I agree that most programs probably aren't actively looking for one kind of writing, I think there may be certain programs that are more supportive of writing that falls outside what people have been calling "domestic realism".
pogrator: I am totally with you on waitlist neurosis. It seems that Vanderbilt also only accepted poets who eschew blogs, as no acceptance was ever posted on here on DH. And I *wish* I knew what other acceptances those three people had. I pray often that one of them was accepted to Michener or Iowa and can't resist...
I just visited Penn State for their grad recruitment weekend and met up with 6 of the 9 MFAers with offers. Right now 5 of us (1 poetry, 3 fiction, 1 nonfiction) are accepting offers while one is still deciding. There are still 3 (possibly 4) offers floating around and the director has not heard either way yet.
If you haven't heard anything, email the program and they should get back to you pretty quickly. Hope that helps.
@Poetry applicants - has anyone been accepted into a program with a mostly formal poetry manuscript? I'm interested in seeing how formal poetics are faring. Thanks!
1. I agree they're totally different programs. But different does not mean equal. Different, in this case, means that one offers much more of what students want and need than the other. Columbia being such a large and expensive program is a financial decision made by the University -- it is not a pedagogical decision. It maximizes revenue. Cornell is not a revenue-building program; Columbia is. All lot of the differences flow from that.
Columbia is not a revenue-building program. It's a tax-exempt non-profit and its finances are publicly available. It operates at a net loss. And what makes you think that Columbia's program isn't a pedagogical decision? Like a full-time law or business school, running a full-time, specialized program is expensive.
2. The placement data is original research on the last 12 years of post-MFA placement. It can be found on my blog and in Poets & Writers.
You mean placement into professorships? Publishing record? Awards? Where are you getting your info from?
3. Most MFA applicants want the teaching experience. It is personally rewarding but also helps one build a CV for future employment. Given the choice between a) paying no tuition and teaching 2 hours/week for a total of 30 weeks out of a 104-week span (roughly 28% of one's funded weeks at Cornell), and b) paying $84,000 in tuition and not working at all because one took out an additional $40,000 in loans... well, I just don't think those two experiences, or opportunities, exist in the same universe of discourse.
Most MFAs want to teach? BS They want to write. And you know teaching takes way more than two hours a week with grading etc.
4. Cornell offers many courses besides workshop. But the difference between Cornell and CU is that the former knows that it's an art degree--it doesn't try to load students down with so many academic courses they think they're in an M.A. If one wants an academic M.A., one can get an academic M.A. -- but it's not clear why a Master of Fine Arts degree would be heavy on the academic courseload or why that would be particularly appealing to people who, if they really wanted that, could get an M.A. (or an M.A. followed by a CW Ph.D., which would allow one to take academic courses alongside workshops while earning an academic -- as opposed to art-school -- degree).
I don't see any courses about writing listed. If I wanted to study "critical theory, American literature" etc. then I would get a PhD in English. And if I didn't want to learn anything about writing, why do an MFA at all? Why not get a part-time job and write all day?
5. I don't think we have any reason to believe Cornell's quality of instruction is lower than Columbia's.
Cornell only offers a workshop. The quantity and quality of writing instruction is different.
6. The OP is right: I was speaking of ratios only at the MFA programs at these two schools. And the data I gave is correct.
Then the Cornell ratios include the 2nd year students.
Given the differences between these programs I just don't think we can blithely say that either one will "likely appeal to some more than others." Paying $124,000 to not have the requisite time to write that is the very purpose of an MFA degree, versus a free degree with livable stipend at an equivalent Ivy League university is not a "pick 'em" situation, IMO.
You need to differentiate. I researched different programs and would have been miserable at Cornell. Stuck in Ithaca with four fiction writers, teaching dweebs thirty hours a week at the world's second-weakest Ivy...
Hello all, I applied only to SFSU and haven't heard anything anything yet. Can I assume that means rejection, since so many others were accepted last week? I applied for a fiction MFA. Thanks for your guidance--want to know if I should keep nail-biting or just give up.
I will definitely let you know if I decide to attend the SLC open house. I kind of wish there were a way I could attend both Emerson and Sarah Lawrence! (Attend one the first half of the year, the other one the second half, and alternate until completing the degree? haha) But I am leaning toward Emerson because I love the program, and there seem to be more opportunities (teaching, etc.) for a lot less money.
P.S. Cornell will also hire you upon graduation for 1-2 years. No other MFA program in the country does that for its students, and again the very philosophy behind that policy is simply diametrically opposed to CU's fiction-focused "pay-to-play" system (where the implicit promise is that the tuition is "worth it" because what you get "in return" off your "investment" is a half a million dollar book deal in your 20s; needless to say, that implicit promise is a lie for 98%+ of CU grads).
Just saw the PS...
If you don't want to teach, why would two extra years of poverty level wages appeal?
I'm a poet and pretty awful at writing fiction, but I just wanted to say that I love to read fiction and I LOVE magical realist fiction. I think that if anyone got rejected because their story was magical realism and not domestic realism, then that's a shame and the program is missing out!
Wandering Tree - I followed your application experience this year with interest because of your aesthetic and your publishing credentials.
I know there are plenty of schools that have proven to be experimental or open.
I am hoping for anecdotal info on the schools I listed though - my friends at Iowa claim the adcoms don't care about aesthetics, but until someone pipes up and says they sent a magical realism story to Iowa or Wisconsin or Cornell and was accepted, then I won't believe what these schools say about being open to all types of writing styles.
Hunter- rejected Brooklyn- rejected The New School- accepted
They are offering what seems to be a very small scholarship.
Anyone else in at the New School: have you made your decision yet? I'd love to talk with some folks I will be seeing in the fall. Email me if you'd like: nora . eileen at gmail . com
@coreyann: Hunter emailed on March 15 saying to check my status on their website. Brooklyn sent a letter dated March 15 saying my application was under review. Over the weekend I checked their myenrollment website, it says: After careful review, we regret to inform you that your application to the above program was not among those selected for admission. If you need additional information, you can contact the Office of Admissions. hope that helps.
I'm an applicant that wants teaching experience. I think a 2/2 load is excessive, but I didn't apply to Michener because I wanted a shot at teaching writing at the college level. If given the choice, I would have taken a (reasonable) TA position over a straight-out fellowship any day of the week.
And are we seriously debating that going to Columbia (and incurring massive debt) is a better move than several fully-funded years at Cornell? Really? *All* schools are non-profits, by the way, and there are plenty of programs out there that find a way to fund their MFA students while still meeting their bottom line. Can we put this dragon to bed already?
There are two Emmas on this blog and we both got into Montana. The other Emma was posting most recently, above. I am not going to Montana. I have let go of my spots at Sarah Lawrence, Montana, Hunter and UNCG. I've been accepted at UF, and am waiting on Virginia.
@ Emma - you will have a blast visiting Missoula. If you have time, check out Bernice's Bakery (a short walk from campus) and Tipu's Indian restaurant (their chai is fantastic!). Also, Big Dipper Ice Cream - on the corner of Higgins and S. 5th Street West - is worth a stop everyday you're there. Handmade huckleberry sorbet and cardammon ice cream...need I say more?
So, I'm reviewing the material I've received from UNH, and there is no information at all about when I need to decide by. I had been assuming that the April 15th deadline was a universal thing, but perhaps it only applies to funded offers? Do some schools not have a reply-by deadline?
Relax, "Smoke-oi." You're clearly a regular Columbiahead over there. And that's OK! We should all be so lucky to find things we love.
Just realize this debate, about the value of a $120,000 MFA degree among 50+ competing programs offering MFAs for $0 dollars (with livable stipends), has been addressed before. A dozen times. Probably more than a dozen times!
Not only does Cornell have an outstanding writing program, but they also have one hell of a basketball team. They have single-handedly put me in first place in my NCAA bracket.
Rejected today via email: Hunter. Rejected today via post: Warren Wilson. Wait-listed @ TNW. In at CCNY. No word yet from BC, NYU, QC & Bennington.
huckleberry sorbet? Be still my heart. Thanks for the suggestions, I am psyched!
-- the other Emma (sorry for any confusion. I will try to remember to sign my posts like this. I am NOT the Emma that usually posts here, I am just an occasional poster.)
I'm an applicant that wants teaching experience. I think a 2/2 load is excessive, but I didn't apply to Michener because I wanted a shot at teaching writing at the college level. If given the choice, I would have taken a (reasonable) TA position over a straight-out fellowship any day of the week.
And are we seriously debating that going to Columbia (and incurring massive debt) is a better move than several fully-funded years at Cornell? Really? *All* schools are non-profits, by the way, and there are plenty of programs out there that find a way to fund their MFA students while still meeting their bottom line. Can we put this dragon to bed already?
Not all schools are non-profits. SVA in NYC is a for-profit college, for example; and no Columbia School of the Arts money is transferred to another department.
Look, not everyone wants the same thing out of school. Seth is arguing that Cornell is a better program than Columbia. I'm saying it is impossible to compare the two programs.
If you want to become a university-level composition instructor then Cornell is a great place to do it. If you want to improve your writing, you might want to consider a place that offers more instruction.
Rejected today, along with so many others, from Hunter via email. Still waiting to hear from TNS, Brooklyn, NYU, Columbia, Emerson, and BU (all for fiction).
Does anyone know if BU has started notifying people yet?
Also, as I'm finally coming around to accepting that I will likely not be in school this fall, does anyone have suggestions (beyond writing better samples and essays, and retaking GREs) for building a stronger application next time? I'm already involved with a small fiction-writing workshop, but wonder if I should be thinking outside my cozy box.
Yes, some people have been told about BU, particularly poets. I found out in early March. Pinsky told me this morning about 8-10 poets total. I believe they are picking the last three soon.
"Smoke-oi." You're clearly a regular Columbiahead over there. And that's OK! We should all be so lucky to find things we love.
Just realize this debate, about the value of a $120,000 MFA degree among 50+ competing programs offering MFAs for $0 dollars (with livable stipends), has been addressed before. A dozen times. Probably more than a dozen times!
Nope. My point is that different programs offer remarkably different experiences and that Seth's ranking system is meaningless. There's more to value than sticker price.
His wikipedia declares he is or was both a student in Columbia's MFA program and NYU's film program. However, this article says he is a student at Warren Wilson. Maybe he's getting all 130+ MFAs because he's worried that winning that Stoner of the Year thing made him look like a slacker.
I gave up my spot at Ole Miss and decided to stay at Hollins for the final year. So, good news for someone waiting for Ole Miss poetry news and I guess I'll see some of you Hollins first years in the fall.
@ Laura T - I know, it made my mouth water just writing about it. My brother is an undergrad at Montana right now, and I might have to plan a spring jaunt up there just to sample the delicacies.
@ Smoke- oi - *sigh* I don't want to engage on this. Suffice it to say that if I was going to go 100,000 into debt simply for time to write, I could live for at least SIX YEARS in Montana without working. If I only wanted time, I'd just do that.
If you want to go to Columbia or are already at Columbia - own it. But don't try to tell me that my decision to pursue a fully-funded program is "on par" with choosing one that's going to hamstring me financially for years to come.
That's it from me, though, seriously. I could get a lot more strongly worded, but like M. Swann said, this debate has *already* gone on too long.
I hear ya on the aesthetic esp. for Iowa. It's funny how applicants have to debate this given that the program once employed Kurt Vonnegut. It just goes to show how much a program (or at least the perception of a program) can change over the years depending on who happens to be teaching.
Yall, I am frantically awaiting a letter from Miami right now - I'm on the west coast so I'm hoping (hoping!) that maybe all acceptances haven't made their way out here quite yet? And I am bouncing off the walls, so I am going to the zoo :)
Good luck everybody!! I hope, when I come back, I can check in the blog and hear plenty of good news. Now, I'ma go look at some siamangs :)
2,525 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 2525 Newer› Newest»Oh man. I now know the sweet misery of the GNE. I got TWO today from different profs at one of my waitlists. They were so very encouraging that I'm trying really hard to keep my feet on the ground. ACK!!!
I shouldn't get my hopes up right? Remain on course to forget this school exists until some phone call or email tells me otherwise?
Yeah, Abbie!
Is this the first time an Irviner has posted?
Woofenstein, I have to tell ya, I did the same thing (crossing off schools off my list based on lack of diversity in faculty composition gleaned from website). It didn't bother me much, tho, because (1) as you said, the literary world isn't exactly overrun with ethnic diversity to begin with, and (2) I still, none-the-less, found many programmes I'd want to be a part of. Even some, frankly, with a not so terribly diverse faculty makeup. It primarily came down to what I found of some their writings, and what of that genuinely excited me.
I do also agree that the stories I sometimes come across in lit mags are . . . somewhat tiresome. There are genuinely good stories that still manage to skewer my mind, but then there are other times I feel an overwhelming sense of déjà entendu. And not really subject matter, but style. There seems to be a pervasive premium on keeping things terse and clipped. Raymond Carver or die!
I've had a disheartening number of experiences in workshops where colleagues will read a piece of mine, chew on their tongue for a moment, then suggest that I read Cheever or Carver or Hemmingway to help with my writing since, apparently it's a bit highfalutin and not very "American." ????
Still, none of this ever bothered me too much. Most of my experiences with fellow aspiring writers have been much more constructive. I think many of us on here understand the very protean nature of language and the very different style its application naturally yields.
I think I totally screwed myself over. Was accepted to Columbia, and just now re-read the email about submitting my FAFSA. I already submitted it, but apparently the School of the Arts needed another form? And it was due on Feb. 15th without exception?
Maybe Columbia only accepted me because they thought I didn't need their funding. Unfortunately, that couldn't be further from the truth as both of my parents are currently unemployed (not by choice). Still can't believe I can't talk to anyone about this until tomorrow.
Well, I guess this could be good news for anyone who gets on a Columbia waitlist. I won't be able to attend if they don't even consider me for aid.
@seth
I know you have expressed strong disapproval for the funding situation at Columbia in the past. I am curious if you can share your thoughts on the program itself (workshops, faculty...etc.). I understand that in some ways, particularly in terms of who will decide to attend, funding affects the program quality. But if you were to focus purely on the education/writing experience students receive there, what are you thoughts?
@Smoke-oi
How big is the program, i.e. how many people there are in each concentration?
Thanks for offering to share the info.
@J. Haley
Two good questions, but I do think they're separate ones. I probably wouldn't advise anyone to apply to those schools ex ante unless the applicant had a severe geographic restriction that could not be overcome (e.g., I've worked with applicants who had health issues that forced them to apply only to programs in California). But if, having applied to such a program and gotten funding, one is trying to decide whether or not to go, I think the question shifts to one of priorities. Say one already has a book or two and just needs the MFA "credential" to get a teaching job--I could see that person leaping at the first MFA acceptance they received. Or say someone felt strongly that unless and until they had a swath of time just to focus on writing they would not be able to improve--and they felt that if they didn't get that time immediately they would probably give up writing forever. I could see that person being in a rush. Or if someone was simply so dead set on staying in San Francisco that these programs are the only ones they'd ever apply to anyway. Or if one had a special pre-existing relationship with a faculty member. Or if one literally thought one would not have the money to apply again for many years (I've actually worked with applicants for whom this was the case--the money they applied with was the last discretionary money they would have for a long, long time); in that situation I could see someone taking a funded offer at a school like the ones we're discussing in order to not have to wait years to re-apply. Or if one was dead-set on the art-school model--only CCA, CalArts, SAIC, Otis, Savannah, and Iowa (at a stretch) really have that, perhaps one or two I'm forgetting off-hand, so in that case the person might see CCA as where they wanted to end up anyway. Some people literally are in a bad spot in their lives and just need a change--right now. So there are countless reasons why, having gotten funding from one of those programs, one might decide to go. But if one is concerned about cohort quality; if one wants three years to write instead of two; if one wants to avoid significant surprise loans (as even fully-funded programs in high-cost locales sometimes leave a student short-handed come end of semester, and they find they do need to take out some loans); if one is worried about reputation; if one wants to apply to doctoral programs and knows/believes that Master's pedigree may matter in their application (particularly if it's to a traditional Ph.D.); if any of these, or many other such factors--one wants a small program, a more lustrous faculty, a program with a strong placement history--I think, yes, one would need to consider applying again if one felt one's work was not yet either a) at its pre-MFA-application pinnacle, or b) being judged by a broad enough swath of adcoms for the applicant to feel certain they had really "tested the waters."
@Violet
I'm afraid I've already written about this at such length that to go into it again would earn me accusations of piling on. Suffice to say that the first sentence of any non-funding-related assessment of Columbia would include the fact that Columbia is 1277% easier to get into than Cornell--another Ivy League MFA just a few-score miles away. That's 1277%, not 277%. The idea that this doesn't have any effect on the community or day-to-day workshopping experience at CU... well, you can imagine my views on that. Or the fact that Cornell has a 4:5 student to full-time faculty ratio (again, yes, you read that right: 4 to 5, not 5 to 4) as compared to 7+ to 1 at Columbia. Anyone who thinks (and I'm not saying you're suggesting this, Violet, just speaking generally) that the objection to CU is only about funding hasn't followed the debate over, in addition to the above, the program's two-year duration, the program's academic focus, the program's declining placement statistics &c &c...
@Nathaniel-Thanks for the link!
congrats Abbie!!
OMG Irvine poetry it's not over!!! I'm still holding out hope!!!!!
@ Ena
When/how did you hear from UNCG?
I think remember Wichita State saying they had a studio approach.
@abbie - congratulations!! Fantastic school - way to go getting in! :)
@Seth
Thank you for talking more about the SF programs. What about CCA/USF/SFSU vs low res? For someone who either wants/needs to stay in SF or do a low res, would you advise toward low res? Or perhaps no program at all? Thx!
@Seth,
Perfect. Thank you so much. SF is home to me, and I have been away completing my first Master's for several years, thus I really am wanting to return. However, I do not want to base my decision on an emotional pull.
I have copy/pasted all of you comments on the subject in a doc, and once I hear from the remaining 8 schools on my list, I'll be able to make an educated decision.
Thanks again,
J. Haley
@Ali-sorry about the letters. I should get mine tomorrow, then we can commiserate
@Ratiff-wow, bummer ticket. I know the area well, my daughter is in school there
@Patrick-did you hear from Oxford?
@klairkwilty...
re: Iowa City
I'm not sure what is posted on Craigslist right now, but I can tell you that I have not seen any double wides in Iowa City proper (although I don't doubt there is pre-fab housing in IC). There is plenty of good college housing options at what I consider reasonable rates (certainly in line with other Midwest college towns). I rent a nice, older home with hardwood floors throughout and a large fenced in backyard for my dogs for 1200 a month. It's more than enough room for my wife and me. I realize that's a fair chunk of change if you don't have someone splitting that check with you. There are plenty of houses like this, but if roommates are not an option there are similar homes with efficiencies or broken up into apartments for 400-500 a month. I'm 7 blocks to the football stadium and 1.4 miles to the English-Philosophy Building. That's about a 20-25 minute walk for me at a quick clip. It's under a 10 minute bike ride. We found our house on Craigslist, but we also used an assortment of other online avenues to look including the local paper, The Press-Citizen.
I'm not high on Coralville either. C-ville has quite a bit of new housing (i.e. the suburban nightmare where you might be apt to walk into the wrong house drunk because they all look the same). I will also be the first to admit that I have a strong distaste for tract development. What I said about Ann Arbor in a previous post, also holds true for Iowa City. There are farm houses available if you are looking for that quintessential Iowa experience. Woon mentioned West Branch; I would throw out Kalona, Tiffin, Riverside, and the Hills. I also came across farm houses with the IC zip code going out 6 South and out 1 to the Southwest. The ability to afford these might depend on having roommates, and/or a significant other with employment.
As a lit junky, Iowa City is a great place to live for a couple of years. The hardest part is not blowing a small fortune every time I walk into one of the great used bookstores or Prairie Lights.
Good luck w/ the house hunting.
@Kyle
I heard this afternoon by phone. I really wouldn't worry though, because I was told that I was the first person they have notified for poetry and that they'll be doing it officially (read: grad school approved) this week. Also, that they don't know anything about funding yet.
Good luck!
I would love to hear from anyone who got into a top 20 ranked school with (1) a novel excerpt as your only sample - no story, and/or (2) an aesthetic that is not domestic realism. trying to figure out if there is any truth to rumors about aesthetic at iowa, wisconsin, michigan etc.
@Ena
Many congrats on UNCG! And thank you for also sharing that information.
Hope everyone had a grand weekend! Another big week ahead I'm sure ;D
@kaybay - a few more that don't want the GRE...
U of Oregon,
George Mason,
Virginia Tech
Brown
(and I think) American.
@Seth, I know how humongously busy you are, but I've also seen how humongously generous you are with your time where MFA applicants are concerned.
I'd like to ask your opinion on something I'm struggling with. Would it be okay if I emailed you? I don't want to pose this question on the board...
Hi all,
I got a waitlist for Iowa in Fiction. They used the term "very short" waitlist. Does anyone have any clue how many students get waitlisted at Iowa??? I can't imagine it's a large number. More importantly, how many students move from the waitlist to acceptance? I would imagine that's an even smaller number. Any information is appreciated!
@John-did you get a phone call or letter?
Dear Wisconsin: when I asked you to lose to Cornell I didn't mean you had to go and let them humiliate you.
But... Maybe that's what you get for rejecting one of their alumni from your mfa program. Something to think about next year.
Go Big Red!!!
I got a snail mail waitlist letter for fiction from Iowa. They used the term "very short" waitlist. Does anyone know how many people Iowa places on a fiction/any waitlist? I can't imagine it's a large number. More apropos, how many people make it from the waitlist to the program? I surmise that's an even smaller number. If anyone knows anything, please let me know!
John
@sud
No, no call. Only a mailed letter. I've been dying to call and ask these ever-important questions, but everyone has told me to relax and not bother them. I've heard of almost noone else in the MFA blogosphere getting waitlisted to Iowa.
@Joh-was this the first time you heard from them?
@Joh-was this the first time you heard from them?
Re: agents (maybe this is an old topic now, but hey)
I'm an intern at a literary agency with offices in New York City, Boston, and DC. Everyone (including me) monitors literary journals, newspapers, magazines, (for example, I track Guernica, the Boston Review, Wired, Prairie Schooner, Exquisite Corpse, and more) etc. If a writer has an MFA, we look at the program (or they ask me about it, since I now know more about MFAs than I ever cared to). The primary agents are both lovely people who work very, very hard to balance their desire for good writing and compelling stories with their need to make money for the agency. It's a business. It's hard. But not all agents are lazy bums - my two cents. Seth's points were also very valid, though - I just wanted to chime in.
@sud- Yes. I received a letter dated March 5th which stated I was on a "very short waiting list for admissions."
I am, understandably, going out of my mind trying to decide just what exactly that means, how many people might be 'shortly ahead' of me, and if I have a snowball's chance of entrance this Fall. Any advice?
Also, for those waiting on Columbia (yaaaay more posts on Columbia) - it is a large program, so please don't panic if you haven't heard yet. When I was called, I was told that people would continue getting news over the next week. Don't fret!
Now back to crunching tuition/fellowship numbers and rereading "Trouble in MInd"...
Re: agents, again
I should specify - the presence or absence of an MFA isn't a dealbreaker unless it's your *only* credential, and even then, that's negotiable. Publish, guys. Publish, publish. Anything you can do to show your commitment to professionalism in your writing is important.
John-I'm probably not the best one for advice, didn't get into Iowa. But in my fantasy life, I put my $1,000 commitment fee down on one of the low res programs I did get into, then I get a call from Iowa and decide I can forget about the $1,000 because Iowa is fully funded and it's a small cost to go to my number 1 school. That's just my fantasy.
@Sud- I'd abandon a harvested organ to get into Iowa. I'd be happy to get into UVa or UNLV, or any of my other choices; but the gravitas of Iowa is unmistakable. If Iowa rejected me, I could move on, but I am in this limbo where I know they read and liked my manuscript, and I am on their radar. I now have to wait for the near impossible: an unspecified number of writers turning down their fiction seats at Iowa. Kidney transplant recipients might turn down their organ matches before that happens. But still, I have that nagging, pestering feeling of hope.
@Nadiya
Sure, send it along.
S.
@ John
One of the Emmas that contributes to this blog was also waitlisted at Iowa. This doesn't help you, I know, but it's the only other info that most of us have about Iowa waitlists! Good luck to you.
@digapony- Thanks! Any information is better than nothing. I am somewhat pleased to know there is so little about Iowa waitlists. It gives me the impression (as quixotic as it may be) that it is something rare, and thus I still have a shot at Iowa in the fall! Thanks!
@all- Any more information on Iowa waitlist for fiction or anything else is still appreciated! Thanks.
Any GMU acceptances going to the Mason open house this week? Trying to get off of work, and curious!
@ John
I am the Emma on the Iowa waitlist. I know of one other for fiction, so that's three of us. I do believe that it's very short, but that's just my hunch.
Abbie! Congrats on Irvine!
Also congrats on anything I've missed over the last few days.
Drella -
How big is the program, i.e. how many people there are in each concentration?
Program size: roughly 35/year fiction; 15 non-fiction; 10 poetry -- I think, our year was a little bigger than average, with ~50 for fiction. Total is 1XX, not sure the exact number
Hilary - thanks for the information on Columbia. Logically I had already come to a similar conclusion, illogically, which I have a PhD in, I was freaking out!
Seth -
Not to barge in on your comments above comparing Cornell and CU, but the two programs are totally different. Cornell is free, but requires at least a year of teaching to get the degree. Cornell also doesn't seem to offer writing courses beyond a workshop. And only accepts a dozen people a year.
Columbia offers high-quality instruction for a high price. Cornell offers low wages and a workshop in exchange for TAs. Both options likely appeal to some more than others. And where are you getting your information about Columbia's placement rate?
Kristina:
I'll be there!
Looking at the websites.
Cornell's MFA only accepts 4 people per genre. - Columbia accepts 35 in fiction, 15 in Poetry, 10 in non-fiction (or something like that).
Faculty student ratios: (From Princeton Review)
Cornell U: 9:1
Columbia U: 6:1
@ Sam
Yes...it appears we are in limbo. I have the impression one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing. The Graduate Department is dragging their heels a bit? Are you local...in So Cal as well? Yes, it does seem we have a verbal OK, it's just not official, yet. Let me know if you find out anything! You can email me off line as well:)
@ Smoke-oi - I think the faculty student ratios Seth gave were for the MFA program itself. The ones from Princeton Review are for the entire university as a whole.
@ Ena
Thanks, and many congrats on your acceptances!
@daniel
yees. no word at all from university of florida in gainsville-- no phone call/email/rejection in the mail-- their online status page is not working for me and people on this blog have commented about being sure that ufla has already accepted everyone they're accepting... yet, nothing to confirm rejection!
if you hear anything, please let us know, and i'll do the same. thanks, s
@emma- Have you contacted Iowa about the waitlist?? Have they contacted you?
Thanks!
Thanks AB! And everyone else. It's Monday--Oh Happy Day!
Hi Smoke,
Briefly:
1. I agree they're totally different programs. But different does not mean equal. Different, in this case, means that one offers much more of what students want and need than the other. Columbia being such a large and expensive program is a financial decision made by the University -- it is not a pedagogical decision. It maximizes revenue. Cornell is not a revenue-building program; Columbia is. All lot of the differences flow from that.
2. The placement data is original research on the last 12 years of post-MFA placement. It can be found on my blog and in Poets & Writers.
3. Most MFA applicants want the teaching experience. It is personally rewarding but also helps one build a CV for future employment. Given the choice between a) paying no tuition and teaching 2 hours/week for a total of 30 weeks out of a 104-week span (roughly 28% of one's funded weeks at Cornell), and b) paying $84,000 in tuition and not working at all because one took out an additional $40,000 in loans... well, I just don't think those two experiences, or opportunities, exist in the same universe of discourse.
4. Cornell offers many courses besides workshop. But the difference between Cornell and CU is that the former knows that it's an art degree--it doesn't try to load students down with so many academic courses they think they're in an M.A. If one wants an academic M.A., one can get an academic M.A. -- but it's not clear why a Master of Fine Arts degree would be heavy on the academic courseload or why that would be particularly appealing to people who, if they really wanted that, could get an M.A. (or an M.A. followed by a CW Ph.D., which would allow one to take academic courses alongside workshops while earning an academic -- as opposed to art-school -- degree).
5. I don't think we have any reason to believe Cornell's quality of instruction is lower than Columbia's.
6. The OP is right: I was speaking of ratios only at the MFA programs at these two schools. And the data I gave is correct.
Given the differences between these programs I just don't think we can blithely say that either one will "likely appeal to some more than others." Paying $124,000 to not have the requisite time to write that is the very purpose of an MFA degree, versus a free degree with livable stipend at an equivalent Ivy League university is not a "pick 'em" situation, IMO.
Best,
S.
P.S. Cornell will also hire you upon graduation for 1-2 years. No other MFA program in the country does that for its students, and again the very philosophy behind that policy is simply diametrically opposed to CU's fiction-focused "pay-to-play" system (where the implicit promise is that the tuition is "worth it" because what you get "in return" off your "investment" is a half a million dollar book deal in your 20s; needless to say, that implicit promise is a lie for 98%+ of CU grads).
Officially rejected by Hunter, via email this morning.
Feels about as good as I expected.
@Timothy Marshall
What genre was your Hunter rejection in? I'm *still* waiting for any news from them.
this is me sending out good news vibes into the universe, with a special focus on columbia. and you know, new school and brooklyn because i haven't heard a peep from them and "its not over until its over" keeps playing on repeat in my head...
i am still torn between umass boston mfa poetry program and emerson. any thoughts??? anyone in the same boat??? anyone?? bueller??? bueller??? :)
Seth, do you know anything more about the two? Could you spare some time to shed some light?? My main goal other than becoming a stronger writer is also to teach--so the program that will afford me the most opportunities to do so is the most attractive (both do)...i think i just need an opinion of someone other than my husband, parents, or in laws--someone who is a writer and knows all the details about the writing world...
who knew this decision would be so stressful...
i am still torn between umass boston mfa poetry program and emerson. any thoughts??? anyone in the same boat??? anyone?? bueller??? bueller??? :)
@Seth,
do you know anything more about the two? Could you spare some time to shed some light?? My main goal other than becoming a stronger writer is also to teach--so the program that will afford me the most opportunities to do so is the most attractive (both do)...i think i just need an opinion of someone other than my husband, parents, or in laws--someone who is a writer and knows all the details about the writing world...
who knew this decision would be so stressful...
coreyann I know just how you feel. That's the song that I keep singing.
@Lexie,
Fiction.
I could still technically hear from Brooklyn or NYU, but I'm basically just going into my mourning period now and I guess in about 6 months I'll start filling out my forms again.
Either that or I'll publish the greatest novel of our time.
Is there anyone else that hasn't heard a word from Michigan? I've already accepted Iowa's offer, but it'd be nice to have a rejection in hand, at least. That application took time!
sooo i'm just curious. are you columbia folks in a position to fork out the dough or are you planning on taking out huge loans?
i wonder the percentage of columbia MFA students who are able to slap a hundred grand on the table with no worries.
i'm sure james franco did so.
Received my Hunter rejection via e-mail this morning, too. Fiction.
This means I have now been officially rejected by half my schools (12 out of 24).
12 rejections, 1 waitlist, and 11 schools from which I've heard nothing.
Hope this week brings good news to all of us.
Hunter rejection this morning (Fiction.) Pleased. They've been the most difficult to deal with out of all the rest.
@cecil people, I have a partial, renewable fellowship at Columbia (a little more than 1/3 of tuition) and I may or may not have access to other funds that would allow me to graduate with about $45,000 in debt (no, the "other funds" are not my parents, although I certainly wouldn't complain if they were). I could potentially work during the program, but that sort of defeats the purpose of the MFA, right? I want undisturbed time to write.
Otherwise, I would, indeed, be out about $100,000 in debt, which is simply not something I'm willing to do. The heartbreak of Columbia is that yes, it's a big program, but two of my literary heroes teach there and it's going to be really hard if I have to say no. I don't want to sound like I'm whining about getting in - it's really exciting and it's my first acceptance, and I'm thrilled. But I also have to be realistic about what this degree means and what I'm willing to put myself through to get it.
*Sorry, "peoples."
Okay, the (nearly) Final Tally (fiction):
Colorado State (pending)
Texas State (rejected)
Alabama (rejected)
Iowa (rejected)
Michigan (rejected)
Minnesota (waitlist)
Montana (waitlist)
Oregon (rejection pending)
Wisconsin (rejected)
WashUSTL (rejected)
Western Michigan (accepted w/ TA-ship)
@Vanni...WMU still sounding good to you? Want to discuss off blog? Shoot me an email...
andrew [dot] wickenden [at] gmail [dot] com
@Otkuda - how did they inform you? I still haven't heard a single peep from Hunter.
Email. From what I heard, all Hunter rejections are via email.
@Otkuda. Hunter is being so obnoxious. The last time I spoke to them on the phone they told me that rejections were going out via snail mail.
I'm sorry to hear about Hunter. Does this mean you're going to City College?
@Lexie
That's strange. I actually was an undergraudate at Hunter and had a blast, so I was surprised how rude and disorganized they are in the graduate sector.
I'm still waiting on Brooklyn (assuming rejection.) So, yes, I'm probably City College bound.
I apologize, I don't remember what schools you're still waiting on (with the exception of Hunter.) Best of luck with the rest, though!
@Otkuda -
I only applied to Hunter and to City Colleges due to financial constraints. Best of luck with Brooklyn. I almost had a heart attack because I had a missed call from a 212 number and I thought it might have been Hunter. No such luck. It was my pharmacy, calling to refill my prescription.
*headdesk*
Broke down and emailed Virginia with a very politely worded request for their notification timeline. Received a one-line reply this morning:
"The decisions will be made at the end of this month."
It's nothing new, but I thought you guys would like to know.
Rejected by Brooklyn (poetry) today, by mail. The rejection came from the English department and they said I would be getting ANOTHER rejection from the MFA program specifically (how nice of them?). The English dept. said that I should apply for their MA in English instead, for immediate consideration, which was nice of them and I would probably do it if I hadn't gotten other offers!
re. MA in English Literature
Last Fall 2009 when I was applying to MFA programs, I also applied to a couple of traditional MA programs -- one mediocre selectivity school and one prestigious school. The reason why I did that was, for a brief one-week period in December, I lost my head. I was convinced no MFA program would accept me and I wanted to go to school next year, so I thought, "The MA is nice." But I was fooling myself. I want to write. I don't want to be a literary scholar conducting research on Sexual Deviance of Henry James and Modernism in the Post-Aesthetic Movement Era, for example.
I have since gotten into the mediocre-reputation MA school and still waiting on the prestigious-rep school. But I'm not really waiting. I'm not going for a damn MA. It may be for others, but not for me.
I e-mailed University of Kansas to ask about my status (since I know some were rejected in February and I heard nothing) and I was informed that I am in fact on the waitlist there but that decisions have not be made for waitlisters yet, which is okay with me... It's just good to know where I stand! I didn't get any indication of how long that waitlist is. I imagine for any lurkers who may have been in the same position that I am in (those who hadn't heard either way) there is no need to call or e-mail and that you are in the same position that I am.
Got my Cornell rejection in the post today. I live in India.
Got my rejection today from my one and only MFA program--Hunter college. Didn't realize (quite) how competitive this was going into it but I felt like i gave it a good shot. In fact, I poured my heart and soul into my application and they rejected me!! Oh well it was a good experience and I look forward to probably doing it all again someday.
It's been a pleasure reading this blog and I wish you all the best in your writing excursions!
Heerrio!
@RR - what genre?
@Rachel and Henry, wag:
I'm a current SLC fiction first-year student. If you have questions, you can email me at angelle527 (at) gmail (dot) com!
Received a very nice letter from Sarah Lawrence that I'm not accepted, but on a short waitlist. Does anyone know roughly the tuition for SLC?
Came back from spring break expecting more news in my mailbox than what I got. Got a rejection from Indiana, which was expected, and got a letter from UNT where I have been accepted. It was dated March 9, and said that they want a decision within two weeks. Am I the only one who finds that completely ridiculous? I'm still waiting to hear back from six schools, SIX, and I spent a ton of money on the process as most of us did. I'm obviously going to ask for an extension, but it still pisses me off.
@angelle
I'm also in at SLC...I have loads of questions, but I'm in for CNF. Do you have a friend in nonfiction I could contact? I also have general student/housing/financing questions and I do plan on attending the open house April 7th. Would you mind if I sent you an e-mail? Thanks!
I tried to trick Iowa into telling me my status but they didn't bite! I know its probably a rejection but how much longer does one have to wait arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Just got a call from Gary Shteyngart; I'm accepted at Columbia in Fiction.
Current New Yorker, teacher, and longtime lurker. Sort of ashamed about that last one. So here goes:
Iowa (rejected)
Michigan (rejected)
Columbia (accepted with partial fellowship)
Hunter (waiting)
New School (waiting)
That's for poetry, btw.
Much luck and good vibes to everyone out there--longtime posters and lurkers alike. You're all beautiful monsters.
I got an email from Rutgers-Newark saying that I did not get any funding or financial aid. I'm going to turn down my offer there so a spot on the waitlist will be opening up. I'm also going to decline my unfunded offer from Pittsburgh.
I am leaning toward going to Emerson, especially if I get a good merit aid package there.
@ Kristen, re: Sarah Lawrence tuition
First year: $27,864
Second year: $13,932
Arna and Sam congratulations.
I'm just going to wait with ice in my stomach! Why is this such a big deal?
James Franco is an MFA student????
I knew he was at Columbia, but for some reason I thought he was an undergrad.
That's cool, Laura T. I finally heard that I didn't get into Pitt, and while I'm still waiting on the New School, I have decided to fly out to NY for SLC's admitted students day. So if you end up decided to attend that on April 7th, let me know and we can meet up! Sounds like you really like Emerson, but who knows--you may need to visit anyway. :)
Hope to see you there!
Rachel
@Seth
Can you weigh in a little on UCSD and SDSU? Particularly in comparison to SFSU and USF?
@Seth
One more thing.
Are PhD programs(in creative writing) a good alternate to MFAs, or is that just completely different?
@ Seth,
This is just anecdotal, but I have a couple of friends who went to LSU and were hired for 1-2 years after finishing their MFA.
@Kevin
Have you heard from SDSU? I'm still waiting to hear from the fiction faculty.
Great thanks Laura. Anyone out there thinking they might give up their spot at Sarah Lawrence?
Has anyone else been accepted to Florida Int'l for CNF or otherwise? I am strongly considering the program (pending funding) but I have heard next to nothing about FIU on this blog. Any opinions?
Trilbe,
If you don't mind me asking, how were you able to do so much research? Any tips? I'm already getting ready for next year and want to make sure I apply to the right schools this time around.
@ Franzine Kafka, re: aesthetics and realism --
to most programs I submitted one realistic short story and one story that could probably be classified as fantasy or magic realism. I was accepted at Montana (recently with TA/funding), waitlisted at Oregon, and rejected from Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin and Brown. (I was a ridiculously naive applicant, clearly! Oops.)
The "fantasy" story is part of a longer project, which I synthesized into a cohesive whole for most schools, but excerpted for Oregon.
I struggled over whether to use the non-realist story, since it is not as "good" as the more realistic one... but as I plan to keep writing both realist and non-realist fiction, I figured it would be best to be up-front in my writing sample.
I'm curious as to how that choice may have impacted the reception of my writing -- I know that most schools do not like "genre" fiction. I don't think that's what got me rejected, though, and I don't regret it.
I'd be interested to know if other people sent genre stuff, and how they fared.
-- Other Emma
@Arna- First of all, congrats.
Second, and I hate asking such a self-serving question, but does this mean you will free up a fiction spot at Iowa?
I only ask b/c I am on the waiting list for fiction, and it seems like a fate worse than death not knowing if I'll ever get from the wait to the acceptance.
Thanks!
A UNLV acceptance in poetry was reported over on DH. We may all start panicking now.
Who would turn down Iowa for Columbia...? Except somebody with a buttload of money to burn and no interest in living in the miswest like Lady Gaga or James Franco.
Just called Iowa...the woman I spoke to sounded surprised that I hadn't heard anything yet and took down my name and address. I'm pretty sure my application isn't MIA because everything seems to be there on the site and it says decision in progress...I just wanna know where I stand, dammit!
Still waiting on Iowa, Florida, Vanderbilt, Penn State, Columbia, NYU, and UVA.
@ John --
it is not a fate worse than death. Death sucks.
Also, I believe Arna has already accepted a fiction spot at Iowa, so no.
Good luck!
john,
i believe arna accepted his spot at iowa a while back.
@Andrew
I didn't apply to SDSU, actually. I just wanted to know more about it just in case I decide I'll reapply instead of going to any of the schools I was accepted into.
Sister Ray I'm with you. I just want to know as well. Are you listening Iowa?
@Ashley Brooke
Weeeelll - I would. Not that I'd actually be accepted - just got rejected from Hunter today! But frankly geography has always been of huge importance. I've fought tooth & nail to stay in NYC over the past 7 years without financial support. I'd honestly rather go into massive debt than re-learn how to drive. Diff'rent strokes, I suppose.
@ Stella IV - what genre? I still have not heard a peep from Hunter.
@Lexie
Fiction. Received email this morning letting me know my acceptance status was available online.
Just got a call from Bennington. I'm in for fiction.
Oh god, I just got an e-mail from Columbia. I'm in for fiction!!!
I'm high as a kite right now. I was really doubting myself and beginning to feel like nobody would take me. Turns out there is hope for all us losers after all!
So, for the info: acceptance via e-mail, March 22nd (just as they promised). An information packet should arrive by the second week of April, and I need to let them know by April 26th.
Good luck to all!
@Stella IV
Thanks. It appears they're going to leave us poetry people hanging for a while longer. I'm sorry about the rejection. I've a feeling that's headed my way too, I just wish they'd get it over with already.
Yarduni are you an international applicant?
Congratulations Yarduni and to everyone else whose gotten in! Sorry I just jumped the gun... my nerves are just shot!
People still waiting on Brooklyn (fiction/poetry): I called and they assured me that applications are still under review; they will update the myenrollment page once decisions are made and so forth. I had to resist replying: "Then what was the $125.00 application fee for? taking your merry old time?"
Ah well. Wait continues.
@Perpetua -
Yes, international student from Israel.
Yarduni - thanks for letting me know and congratulations once again.
also posted on DH, but accepted at Columbia via phone for CNF
-nonfiction Courtney
@ Franzine Kafka, re: aesthetics and realism -
My story is pretty similar to Emma's. I submitted one realistic-ish story and one that would most definitely be classified as magical realism. I got into Michigan, but have been rejected by the rest of the usual culprits (Iowa, Irvine, Madison, Cornell, and now Arizona). I think it's kinda funny that my writing appears to be quite polarizing - no waitlists at all. I really don't think schools discriminate down realism/magical realism lines, although work coming out of Iowa leads me to believe Iowa has a definite domestic realism aesthetic. I don't think that's the result of the program pushing people to write in one style, but the result of the kind of writers they first select. I really believe that schools choose not only good writers, but people they think they can teach. But in answer to your question, magical realism can get you into a top 20 school for sure.
Still waiting on the verdict from Florida and Virginia (Virginia only got the "realistic" story due to page constraints). If I had it to do over again, I would probably go more balls-out (and I'm a lady) and send two magical realism stories.
re: U Washington - I just heard from Judy LeRoux this morning in Seattle in response to my inquiry into TAships. She said that they only had money to offer 2 to incoming students this year and she believes one has already been accepted.
I can't remember at the moment who is trying to get funding there to stay with their gf (and I think you're ahead of me anyway), but I will be turning down my spot. I love Seattle but it doesn't seem like there's any guarantee of funding the second year either, and I can't swing that.
First, congrats to everyone hearing good news today!
I, sadly, do not appear to be quite so blessed today. Mail came late, so I don't have it in hand, but a phone call from my house has informed me I have a small envelope from Warren Wilson. Sounds like a rejection to me!
@amanda - I've been emailing back and forth with Judy about funding (on the waitlist) to the point where they had the Director email me in a polite attempt to get me to back off :) Ah, well...
Thanks for your response, Emma. I want to clarify that I'm not asking about "genre" fiction though. Jeffrey Eugenides isn't genre fiction, for example. Aimee Bender is literary as well. Now that most of these top schools have notified, I would really like to know if schools like Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Syracuse, Cornell, Michener, UVA (i.e. the fully-funded powerhouse schools) actually took anyone who writes something other than domestic realism, and I'd love to hear from people who applied exclusively with novel excerpts as well.
I have seen these two questions posed often over the years, but never as a poll taken after the admissions cycle had wrapped up. It would be useful to hear people's success stories here.
@ Franzine Kafka - P.S. I did my undergrad at Montana - that and Emma's acceptance with a non-realistic story lead me to say that they're very amenable to a little fairy dust. Also check out ASU. I didn't apply to either program for various reasons (Montana because I wanted a change of scenery, and ASU because I didn't want a 2/2 load - which they have now amended). Irvine has historically been very friendly to genre-bending, as have some of the Colorado schools.
Stella IV - I didn't meant to insult Columbia or anybody would choose it over Iowa... I was mostly expressing doubt that Arna would do so (or that your average I'll-go-anywhere applicant would), especially after receiving great funding offers elsewhere. I know a lot of people didn't even apply to certain schools for location reasons, and that I can understand.
@Liz and Amanda re: U of Washington Ugh those are not good stats! They haven't responded to my email asking about my place on a TA waitlist, so I'm not going to hold out much hope :(
Continuous good luck to all!!
Yarduni you sounded just the way someone whose been accepted should sound. Relax and enjoy!
Mailwoman just brought my Illinois rejection! Rather nice as far as these things go. Also called and learned I'm pretty low on Notre Dame's waitlist for the second year in a row, so I'll probably be removing my name. The spot's not going to lead to an acceptance, but hopefully they'll pass it on to someone else who will get some validation in this rough season.
@ Franzine Kafka
No top twenty acceptances here, but two acceptances and a waitlist in the twenty to forty range. I wouldn't recommend using only a novel excerpt. I did that last year and got a bunch of rejections. I think they want to see that you can close the deal, so to speak. I'd recommend two short stories or a story and an excerpt that can stand alone (I did the latter this year). Other can feel free to correct me, of course.
Congrats to everyone with good news!
@Lexie
Thanks for the condolences - I honestly wasn't tremendously optimistic about Hunter to begin with. Six slots for fiction and 300 people at the open house last fall... Waiting is awful, but being longlisted ain't too bad...
Florida State University information - Tara Stamm just wrote to me saying that the committee is deciding the waitlist and the deny list and will soon be emailing people with the decision.
@ Liz & Kate: Yeah, it really doesn't seem promising. I honestly wish I had known how paltry the funding opportunities were from the outset. I wouldn't have applied here if I had. The website led me to believe there were many different opportunities. In my opinion, two TAships for the entire cohort as the only means of funding goes way beyond saying the opportunities are "competitive."
I was accepted into SFSU last week. I am excited (though still anxious) to hear good news after what has been such a draining process for everyone here.
@Kevin and others who posted about SFSU
I feel as though we are all kind of in the same boat, figuring out how to further research the program. Living in the Bay Area, I'm planning to check it out soon. In the end, I would be thankful to be part of any program that feels like a good fit with a sense of community. I am fond of the idea of staying near my family and writing in San Francisco, but I keep reminding myself that the program needs to be right, too. I'm hoping to have good things to report after looking into it more; though, I'm also trying not to put a square peg into a round hole.
I'd love any findings you guys find about the program.
Congratulations to everyone on this blog for really putting yourself out there during this application season...That alone is cause for celebration.
@Stella IV - It's so unclear as to whether or not I'm long listed...it appears they have not been doing acceptances they way they say on their website. Oh well. I think I'm just being overly neurotic.
my list so far for poetry:
UMASS Amherst- accepted
Brooklyn College- accepted
University of Miami- accepted
University of Texas (Michener)- waitlisted
UNCW- waitlisted
Brown- rejected
Hunter- rejected
Iowa- rejected
Michigan- rejected
NYU- ?
UCAL-Irvine- ?
U of Oregon- ?
University of Virginia- ?
@ Franzine Kafka - I'm apparently very chatty this morning and feel the need to say that I don't classify (and I don't think Emma does either) magical realism as "genre" work. I think of Aimee Bender, George Saunders, Kelly Link, Karen Russell.
@breadbutterandjam
I was accepted into SFSU last week as well, and I think am having the same sort of worries as everyone else as well. What genre did you apply in? I'm in poetry, and would love to talk
also I'd love to chat with anyone who got into Columbia College Chicago about their thoughts on the program and Chicago in general-- I've kind of always had my heart in San Francisco, but Chicago doesn't seem like a bad plan B as well.
get at me!
cheena.marie.lo@gmail.com
Did anyone accept ASU's poetry offer and then decline recently? Thinking of giving up your spot? Ha ha. Why is ASU not rejecting me if all the poetry spots were accepted? I assume that they are covering their butts in case someone decides to give up their already accepted offer? Kick me to the curb and be done with it -- the glimmer of hope seems more damning -- feeds the OCD in my check status soul.
Also, anyone know the odds of finding random funding at UNH even if you haven't been offered any? Maybe I should start playing online Poker!
Speaking of aesthetics:
Most of my manuscript is a historical fiction story (24 pp of the 25 pp). It's mildly experimental, moving from 1st person to 3rd person. It has some critical theory/historical exegesis passages. Some magical realism too.
So far: a finalist (later rejected) at Wisconsin, an unofficial wait-lister at Syracuse (pending, but no chance), and a wait-lister at Montana.
I wrote a crap-piece for an SOP. Even if I get into a program, I'm probably going to pay Driftless House $90 for manuscript feedback. I've had better luck this year than last (flat-our rejections vs. interest), but I went the perilous route of submitting without peer-review/feedback.
Was it risky to submit a long story (c.f. Arna Bontemp's warning), especially one outside the narrative trajectory of realism? I don't know!
@ Kristina, Laura, ke105, others?
Are any of you attending the GMU Open House? I'm thinking of going over on Thursday for the meet and greet and the evening workshop. Let me know!
If anyone was still waiting to hear from Alaska's low-res program in Anchorage, I just freed up a spot. Thought I'd passed on it weeks ago but via a comedy of errors that I'd probably attribute to Mercury if I believed in that sort of thing, communication has only been achieved just now.
Has anyone been accepted to Brown in any genre? Can it be that a school with a 'literary hypermedia' concentration somehow extended offers only to writers who eschew blogs?? while the totality of the waitlist (as I optimistically believe the unofficial waitlist numbers) has reared its neurotic head? Or maybe Brown herded the accepted onto a private jet and you're all floppy tropical islandy.
A huge CONGRATULATIONS to everyone who has gotten good news (and the accompanying validation) these last weeks and months. To those of you who don't fall into that category by the end of the season, I'm truly and deeply sorry. It's a crap way to start your career but it's hardly a career ender. You hopefully figured out that the committees aren't very good at scoping raw talent because if they were, people wouldn't get rejected across the board, write write write and then reapply or re-reapply to ubiq acceptances. Whether you reapply or not, the important thing, the only thing, is to write on...
...And I should specify that I'm supplying the neurosis for that waitlist. I'm sure that everyone else is cucumber cool.
Qpogrator, lol, no way!
re: aesthetic conversation
The stories I used in my portfolio are all def. of the magical realist and fabulist persuasion. The stories play with form and slip into metafictional narrative at times. The two programs that accepted me received one 30 page story, and I probably knew more about the work of at least one faculty member and at least one alumni at those programs than anywhere else. While I agree that most programs probably aren't actively looking for one kind of writing, I think there may be certain programs that are more supportive of writing that falls outside what people have been calling "domestic realism".
pogrator: I am totally with you on waitlist neurosis. It seems that Vanderbilt also only accepted poets who eschew blogs, as no acceptance was ever posted on here on DH. And I *wish* I knew what other acceptances those three people had. I pray often that one of them was accepted to Michener or Iowa and can't resist...
@ Sister Ray
I just visited Penn State for their grad recruitment weekend and met up with 6 of the 9 MFAers with offers. Right now 5 of us (1 poetry, 3 fiction, 1 nonfiction) are accepting offers while one is still deciding. There are still 3 (possibly 4) offers floating around and the director has not heard either way yet.
If you haven't heard anything, email the program and they should get back to you pretty quickly. Hope that helps.
@Poetry applicants - has anyone been accepted into a program with a mostly formal poetry manuscript? I'm interested in seeing how formal poetics are faring. Thanks!
1. I agree they're totally different programs. But different does not mean equal. Different, in this case, means that one offers much more of what students want and need than the other. Columbia being such a large and expensive program is a financial decision made by the University -- it is not a pedagogical decision. It maximizes revenue. Cornell is not a revenue-building program; Columbia is. All lot of the differences flow from that.
Columbia is not a revenue-building program. It's a tax-exempt non-profit and its finances are publicly available. It operates at a net loss. And what makes you think that Columbia's program isn't a pedagogical decision? Like a full-time law or business school, running a full-time, specialized program is expensive.
2. The placement data is original research on the last 12 years of post-MFA placement. It can be found on my blog and in Poets & Writers.
You mean placement into professorships? Publishing record? Awards? Where are you getting your info from?
3. Most MFA applicants want the teaching experience. It is personally rewarding but also helps one build a CV for future employment. Given the choice between a) paying no tuition and teaching 2 hours/week for a total of 30 weeks out of a 104-week span (roughly 28% of one's funded weeks at Cornell), and b) paying $84,000 in tuition and not working at all because one took out an additional $40,000 in loans... well, I just don't think those two experiences, or opportunities, exist in the same universe of discourse.
Most MFAs want to teach? BS They want to write. And you know teaching takes way more than two hours a week with grading etc.
4. Cornell offers many courses besides workshop. But the difference between Cornell and CU is that the former knows that it's an art degree--it doesn't try to load students down with so many academic courses they think they're in an M.A. If one wants an academic M.A., one can get an academic M.A. -- but it's not clear why a Master of Fine Arts degree would be heavy on the academic courseload or why that would be particularly appealing to people who, if they really wanted that, could get an M.A. (or an M.A. followed by a CW Ph.D., which would allow one to take academic courses alongside workshops while earning an academic -- as opposed to art-school -- degree).
I don't see any courses about writing listed. If I wanted to study "critical theory, American literature" etc. then I would get a PhD in English. And if I didn't want to learn anything about writing, why do an MFA at all? Why not get a part-time job and write all day?
5. I don't think we have any reason to believe Cornell's quality of instruction is lower than Columbia's.
Cornell only offers a workshop. The quantity and quality of writing instruction is different.
6. The OP is right: I was speaking of ratios only at the MFA programs at these two schools. And the data I gave is correct.
Then the Cornell ratios include the 2nd year students.
Given the differences between these programs I just don't think we can blithely say that either one will "likely appeal to some more than others." Paying $124,000 to not have the requisite time to write that is the very purpose of an MFA degree, versus a free degree with livable stipend at an equivalent Ivy League university is not a "pick 'em" situation, IMO.
You need to differentiate. I researched different programs and would have been miserable at Cornell. Stuck in Ithaca with four fiction writers, teaching dweebs thirty hours a week at the world's second-weakest Ivy...
Hello all,
I applied only to SFSU and haven't heard anything anything yet. Can I assume that means rejection, since so many others were accepted last week? I applied for a fiction MFA.
Thanks for your guidance--want to know if I should keep nail-biting or just give up.
@ Rachel Hurn,
I will definitely let you know if I decide to attend the SLC open house. I kind of wish there were a way I could attend both Emerson and Sarah Lawrence! (Attend one the first half of the year, the other one the second half, and alternate until completing the degree? haha) But I am leaning toward Emerson because I love the program, and there seem to be more opportunities (teaching, etc.) for a lot less money.
P.S. Cornell will also hire you upon graduation for 1-2 years. No other MFA program in the country does that for its students, and again the very philosophy behind that policy is simply diametrically opposed to CU's fiction-focused "pay-to-play" system (where the implicit promise is that the tuition is "worth it" because what you get "in return" off your "investment" is a half a million dollar book deal in your 20s; needless to say, that implicit promise is a lie for 98%+ of CU grads).
Just saw the PS...
If you don't want to teach, why would two extra years of poverty level wages appeal?
Oh, and good job shooting down those strawmen!
March 22, 2010 6:27 AM
re: fiction genres
I'm a poet and pretty awful at writing fiction, but I just wanted to say that I love to read fiction and I LOVE magical realist fiction. I think that if anyone got rejected because their story was magical realism and not domestic realism, then that's a shame and the program is missing out!
Wandering Tree - I followed your application experience this year with interest because of your aesthetic and your publishing credentials.
I know there are plenty of schools that have proven to be experimental or open.
I am hoping for anecdotal info on the schools I listed though - my friends at Iowa claim the adcoms don't care about aesthetics, but until someone pipes up and says they sent a magical realism story to Iowa or Wisconsin or Cornell and was accepted, then I won't believe what these schools say about being open to all types of writing styles.
It would benefit all future applicants to know.
re James Franco
he doesn't go to Columbia, he goes to Brooklyn College.
Hey All-
Finally heard back from all my schools:
Hunter- rejected
Brooklyn- rejected
The New School- accepted
They are offering what seems to be a very small scholarship.
Anyone else in at the New School: have you made your decision yet? I'd love to talk with some folks I will be seeing in the fall. Email me if you'd like: nora . eileen at gmail . com
@nora
congrats on new school!!
can you tell me how and when you heard from new school and brooklyn?
thanks! sorry to be all self serving. the waiting on those two is making my head hurt.
@ Emma- I have heard he goes to both, and also Warren Wilson for low-res. Sounds nuts but I'm not joking.
But he does go to Columbia, at least: http://www.ivygateblog.com/2009/03/james-franco-clearly-unimpressed-with-columbia-lectures/
@coreyann:
Hunter emailed on March 15 saying to check my status on their website.
Brooklyn sent a letter dated March 15 saying my application was under review. Over the weekend I checked their myenrollment website, it says:
After careful review, we regret to inform you that your application to the above program was not among those selected for admission. If you need additional information, you can contact the Office of Admissions.
hope that helps.
Smoke,
Really don't feel like arguing about this. You made the decision to attend CU, you're happy with it, that's what matters.
S.
@ Emma,
Hey - I noticed you got into Montana. Are you considering going?
hi, seth, thanks for offering to hear me out. :-)
what address should i mail you at? i'm sorry i can't figure this out...
In at UNCG for poetry. Jim Clark called about 20 minutes ago. No word on any funding yet from what he told me.
@ Sutpen --
yes, I will probably end up going to Montana! I am visiting at the end of march, so we shall see...
are you thinking of going? What genre?
@ Smoke-oi -
I'm an applicant that wants teaching experience. I think a 2/2 load is excessive, but I didn't apply to Michener because I wanted a shot at teaching writing at the college level. If given the choice, I would have taken a (reasonable) TA position over a straight-out fellowship any day of the week.
And are we seriously debating that going to Columbia (and incurring massive debt) is a better move than several fully-funded years at Cornell? Really? *All* schools are non-profits, by the way, and there are plenty of programs out there that find a way to fund their MFA students while still meeting their bottom line. Can we put this dragon to bed already?
Really don't feel like arguing about this. You made the decision to attend CU, you're happy with it, that's what matters.
What made you decide to do a PhD after your MFA and JD? More professor opportunities?
franco goes to columbia, not brooklyn college.
@Austin
Congratulations! Awesome news.
Your week's off to a kick ass start from the sounds of it!
@ Sutpen
There are two Emmas on this blog and we both got into Montana. The other Emma was posting most recently, above. I am not going to Montana. I have let go of my spots at Sarah Lawrence, Montana, Hunter and UNCG. I've been accepted at UF, and am waiting on Virginia.
Re James Franco
He doesn't go to any of those schools. He finished his MFA and applied for Creative PhD's for the fall.
@ Emma - you will have a blast visiting Missoula. If you have time, check out Bernice's Bakery (a short walk from campus) and Tipu's Indian restaurant (their chai is fantastic!). Also, Big Dipper Ice Cream - on the corner of Higgins and S. 5th Street West - is worth a stop everyday you're there. Handmade huckleberry sorbet and cardammon ice cream...need I say more?
Re: Decision Time
Hi all,
So, I'm reviewing the material I've received from UNH, and there is no information at all about when I need to decide by. I had been assuming that the April 15th deadline was a universal thing, but perhaps it only applies to funded offers? Do some schools not have a reply-by deadline?
Relax, "Smoke-oi." You're clearly a regular Columbiahead over there. And that's OK! We should all be so lucky to find things we love.
Just realize this debate, about the value of a $120,000 MFA degree among 50+ competing programs offering MFAs for $0 dollars (with livable stipends), has been addressed before. A dozen times. Probably more than a dozen times!
Not only does Cornell have an outstanding writing program, but they also have one hell of a basketball team. They have single-handedly put me in first place in my NCAA bracket.
Rejected today via email: Hunter.
Rejected today via post: Warren Wilson.
Wait-listed @ TNW.
In at CCNY.
No word yet from BC, NYU, QC & Bennington.
Fiction.
@ Peaquah --
huckleberry sorbet? Be still my heart. Thanks for the suggestions, I am psyched!
-- the other Emma (sorry for any confusion. I will try to remember to sign my posts like this. I am NOT the Emma that usually posts here, I am just an occasional poster.)
re: UNH
Is anyone else going to the prospective student day on April 2nd?
For some reason things like that always make me really nervous, but I think I'm going to go.
I'm an applicant that wants teaching experience. I think a 2/2 load is excessive, but I didn't apply to Michener because I wanted a shot at teaching writing at the college level. If given the choice, I would have taken a (reasonable) TA position over a straight-out fellowship any day of the week.
And are we seriously debating that going to Columbia (and incurring massive debt) is a better move than several fully-funded years at Cornell? Really? *All* schools are non-profits, by the way, and there are plenty of programs out there that find a way to fund their MFA students while still meeting their bottom line. Can we put this dragon to bed already?
Not all schools are non-profits. SVA in NYC is a for-profit college, for example; and no Columbia School of the Arts money is transferred to another department.
Look, not everyone wants the same thing out of school. Seth is arguing that Cornell is a better program than Columbia. I'm saying it is impossible to compare the two programs.
If you want to become a university-level composition instructor then Cornell is a great place to do it. If you want to improve your writing, you might want to consider a place that offers more instruction.
Well I guess someone had to step up and fill the argumentative commenter troll shoes. Congrats, smoke-oi! You're doing a fabulous job.
@ Peaquah,
Huckleberry sorbet and cardamom ice cream?! That sounds amazing. Maybe I should've applied to Montana just for the ice cream, LOL!
Here's my final list since this shitty shitty season is over for me:
Accepted:
UMD
UNCG
Montana
U Tennessee (MA)
Waitlist:
Minnesota
Houston
Rejected:
Michigan
Michener
I guess I have some decisions to make (and a Houston waitlist to climb!)
all for poetry btw
Hey gang,
Rejected today, along with so many others, from Hunter via email. Still waiting to hear from TNS, Brooklyn, NYU, Columbia, Emerson, and BU (all for fiction).
Does anyone know if BU has started notifying people yet?
Also, as I'm finally coming around to accepting that I will likely not be in school this fall, does anyone have suggestions (beyond writing better samples and essays, and retaking GREs) for building a stronger application next time? I'm already involved with a small fiction-writing workshop, but wonder if I should be thinking outside my cozy box.
@Brooks
re: BU
Yes, some people have been told about BU, particularly poets. I found out in early March. Pinsky told me this morning about 8-10 poets total. I believe they are picking the last three soon.
hope that helps
"Smoke-oi." You're clearly a regular Columbiahead over there. And that's OK! We should all be so lucky to find things we love.
Just realize this debate, about the value of a $120,000 MFA degree among 50+ competing programs offering MFAs for $0 dollars (with livable stipends), has been addressed before. A dozen times. Probably more than a dozen times!
Nope. My point is that different programs offer remarkably different experiences and that Seth's ranking system is meaningless. There's more to value than sticker price.
re James Franco, topic of the day
His wikipedia declares he is or was both a student in Columbia's MFA program and NYU's film program. However, this article says he is a student at Warren Wilson.
Maybe he's getting all 130+ MFAs because he's worried that winning that Stoner of the Year thing made him look like a slacker.
Well I guess someone had to step up and fill the argumentative commenter troll shoes. Congrats, smoke-oi! You're doing a fabulous job.
Seth is the troll. Not me.
Can someone please point Smoke-oi to the past discussions on columbia so we can all move on?
apologies for sounding testy, but i'm getting a fairly aggressive deja-vuey feeling.
I gave up my spot at Ole Miss and decided to stay at Hollins for the final year. So, good news for someone waiting for Ole Miss poetry news and I guess I'll see some of you Hollins first years in the fall.
@ Laura T - I know, it made my mouth water just writing about it. My brother is an undergrad at Montana right now, and I might have to plan a spring jaunt up there just to sample the delicacies.
@ Smoke- oi - *sigh* I don't want to engage on this. Suffice it to say that if I was going to go 100,000 into debt simply for time to write, I could live for at least SIX YEARS in Montana without working. If I only wanted time, I'd just do that.
If you want to go to Columbia or are already at Columbia - own it. But don't try to tell me that my decision to pursue a fully-funded program is "on par" with choosing one that's going to hamstring me financially for years to come.
That's it from me, though, seriously. I could get a lot more strongly worded, but like M. Swann said, this debate has *already* gone on too long.
re: James Franco applying for PhDs this year
Maybe he's on this blog. Maybe he is Woon.
Franzine Kafka,
I hear ya on the aesthetic esp. for Iowa. It's funny how applicants have to debate this given that the program once employed Kurt Vonnegut. It just goes to show how much a program (or at least the perception of a program) can change over the years depending on who happens to be teaching.
Well, apparently there are four kinds of trolls - forest, jungle, ice and sand. What kind do you think seth could be?
Nadiya - just because someone has wallpapered this place with his opinion does not mean the issue is resolved. Or that there is no room for debate.
Yall, I am frantically awaiting a letter from Miami right now - I'm on the west coast so I'm hoping (hoping!) that maybe all acceptances haven't made their way out here quite yet? And I am bouncing off the walls, so I am going to the zoo :)
Good luck everybody!! I hope, when I come back, I can check in the blog and hear plenty of good news. Now, I'ma go look at some siamangs :)
Austin,
Congratulations on your acceptances. Sounds like your season was not so "shitty" at all.
Forgive me for prying, but did you receive a teaching assistantship at Montana? Do you think you will be headed there?
@Ashley Brooke
Mystery solved! Woon is James Franco. Love it!
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