388 comments and counting? Wowzers! You guys have been busy. Somebody noted, around comment number 320, that it was time for a new mailbag and yes, it is. So start afresh with your comments, questions, and mutual support, below.
Anyone else writing their SoP/critique for Johns Hopkins right now? As I read my work with a more critical eye, it's like it's falling apart right in front of me. I have visions of readers not being able to finish, being glad to be done, tossing it aside. I'm wondering if I've just built it up too much over time, gotten myself into a personalized groupthink befitting a Bush-era agency. Maybe my friends/readers were too nice, wouldn't say what really sucked.
My work seems to have a certain power. But that's it. I don't know if it's enough. I don't know if I as writer fill in the missing gaps, see in the story what's not yet in the language. Brother. The anxiety of self-reading.
Not seeking sympathy (well, not too much). More like, if anyone else is going through this thought pattern, you're definitely not alone.
Elissa--I'm from Michigan and I can tell you this about the UP: It is fantastically beautiful if you like nature, but it is unbelievably cold and snowy.
beedeecee--Give George Mason some time to update your info online--it will probably take awhile. The office is dealing with stacks and stacks of application stuff.
Good luck to everyone, I remember waiting on decisions as truly awful.
Check out the MFA Chronicles blog a bunch of us first year MFA students put together, if you haven't already. Find us at mfachronicles.blogspot.com
hey Jamie, the JHU self-critique requirement sounds very difficult, but you have to stop short of totally flagellating yourself and instead remember you're doing your best under stressful circumstances - and that everyone's in the same boat. (As in, we're all scrutinising our own work and thinking neurotic, sad, paranoid things...ok - at least i am - and tons of others here have said so too). Surely as long as you show some sense of being able to be objective about your writing (which i'm sure you are) and where you'd like to take it, then you can't do much more. If you could - if you could fill in the gaps - you'd write the story that way! I often look at my stories and know how i'd like them to be, i just don't know how to go there -from A to B...from the real to the ideal - but that's why we're applying for MFA's, no?
Good luck - the best thing i did, which i'd recommend if you have time before the deadline, is to take a day's break from your work, don't touch it. then have another go at it when you're more chilled (as long as you're not stressed instead about making the deadline)!
Ps. @RugbyToy - Princess Bride reference? nice. i want YOU as my classmate!
Er, I've just been thinking about what I would write in a 2 page critique of my own stories and have realised my response to you probably wasn't too helpful, as it was entirely lacking in useful specifics!
Hopefully someone else can come up with something more pertinent soon, while i busy myself with wondering how i'd put together a critique of my own stuff. Hmm. Interesting.
I am 46 ... Right up there with you. It does seem like there are many 20 somethings. But you ladies make me feel better knowing I am not the only one out there who is coming back.
My mom lived in the dorms at Columbia to finish her MPH when she was 50! I don't think I'll go that far, lol. Though they might have family housing at some places.
Thanks, Eli. My post was poorly written, and might give the impression that I'm having trouble with the SoP's task of self-criticism. My problem is that I am seeing my own writing wilt under my critical eye. Natural and character-building, I'm sure. But it brings up all the anxieties one has tried to bury in saying, "This work is ready to submit." Fun!
Oh no, I didn't mean to say that it's something anyone wants or plans to do. I just meant that if I had that option of a career to fall back on, even if it wasn't my ideal career, it would at least afford me some measure of security -- the lack of security being what makes this process so stressful. But then, I am pretty much a walking ball of anxiety, and I feel the need to constantly have plans A through Z determined and ready to implement at a moment's notice.
Regarding JHU's SOP: I would recommend that you focus on why you did something in your story/poem. It seems to me the adcom wants to know that *you* know what you're doing when it comes the content/form of your piece. Touch upon strengths and address weaknesses that you hope to improve on. Don't tear your work apart but treat it like you would a fellow classmate's in workshop.
Someone upthread mentioned wondering about the quality of writing he or she was up against in the application process. My guess is that you're all about the same. There may some people who are great writers. There's probably a few immature writers (ex. "My Soul is a void / Swirling in the abyss of life. / Darkness; O darkness is everywhere. / I am nowhere..." etc). But for the most part you are all writing at about the same level. There was an interview in the Atlantic (I think) a few years ago with the an adcom member for an MFA program. He said that out of all the applications the adcom shortlists about 40, and of those applicants, any would do well in the program. But there's five spots. A lot of the time rejection has nothing to do with the quality of your writing and everything to do with the applicant being a bad fit.
Some of you may accuse me of being hypocritical since I was particularly successful with my application season. But now, after only one semester, when I look back at the work I included in my writing sample, I feel it's really bad and even now I'm revising it. Adcoms aren't looking for the next Ashbery, they're looking for potential, for fit, for someone that they'll want to work with.
This may be a bit evocative, but all that stuff I wrote really only pertains to fully funded programs. It's different if an adcom is looking for a student who they want to *pay* to write for 2-3 years. Programs that make you pay for your degree...well, it may a bit different. What do you all think?
I will admit, my inner ROUS is nudged out of slumber when I see fictioners (fictionites? fictioneers?) applying for schools on my list that I thought used to be best-hidden-secrets. Like LSU. But at those moments, the beast doesn't head for the other applicant.
It heads for Seth and Tom Kealey! How dare they reveal these excellent schools to everyone! And these blogs too, for spreading the information.
But then I remember I, myself, would not know about those programs without Tom and Seth (and would have been ridiculously lost without the advice and aid of the Speakeasy and MFA blog in about every area of MFA applications) and all animosity (lacking in life to begin with, I assure you) melts away.
PS: Final List: Vandy, Iowa, UVA, George Mason, LSU, Syracuse, Alabama, UF, South Florida, Ole Miss, Old Dominion, UT-Austin, Houston, UArizona.
All applications finished except for UF, LSU, & Miss.
A few things: 1. Congrats to MommyJ! I keep seeing you pop up on this and it's great you have an option already. 2. I just wanted to say something about that lingering self-doubt that kicks in when you have already sent in all, or some, of your apps. I am new at this but I really think you should IGNORE that doubt. You have probably spent almost a year researching and dreaming about this possibility, and you've raised the stakes for yourself, and for this you should be proud and never ashamed. I must admit that I did go into applying to MFAs with the belief that probably 80 percent of applicants wrote about their cats or about Jane Austen's Mr. Darcy, but extended time talking to other applicants proves to me that probably the majority of you are really very talented and wonderful and everyone deserves a chance at this. Of course this makes me reconsider my chances at getting in, but at the same time, why doubt now? I had enough confidence and belief in myself to stick my neck out there, and now the only thing we can do is to let it go, since it is now utterly out of our hands. To those of you who are rereading your samples and subsequently banging your head on the wall, stop it! You deserve better than your own treatment. Go eat a cupcake and read a book, or see a movie (but not It's Complicated because that movie was HORRENDOUS) and just take it easy. Don't read your samples, don't look at your transcripts. Happy January, and I'm so excited for a month from now when we all start to find out what the rest of our year together will look like.
jamie mu-- I hear you on what it is like to look back at your writing sample after starting school. After only one semester in my program I look back at the stories I applied with and I cringe.
Does anyone know anything about McNeese University? They ask for a pre-app of sorts through email, but don't say when you will hear to take the next step (if there is one.)
My other schools, all for poetry: Wash U SIU Purdue Georgia College and State U Texas State- San Marcos
oh, here you all are! christ. i've been wondering about the silence of updates on the old mailbag, with great fear that everyone had finished their apps pre-holidays and were just kicking back and enjoying life.
i mailed apps #10 and #11 yesterday (eeee!) and am wrapping up the components for hunter college. the $125 app fee is a total bitch, i have no idea why the cuny schools do that. i actually took brooklyn college off my list because of the app fee, but then went to the open house for hunter college and fell in love with the program (students and faculty who both seem really generous).
has anyone had time to, well, write? as this insanity winds down (i came very close to throwing my ibook out the window around applications #6, 7, and 8), i realize that i'll now have lots of time to write. it seems daunting.
as for a back up plan, if nothing pans out i'll just keep doing what i'm doing: working a pre school gig and freelancing on the side. honestly, this has been such a stressful process i'm not sure if i'd even bother to apply again next year. gah!
I had Vanderbilt on my list for a while, but I had to remove it because I think that it's a great program that does not yet support CNF people in any real way. The fact that you have to submit a sample in a completely different genre pretty much indicates that. Would a poet apply to a school that requires her to submit twenty-five pages of CNF?
My sense is that Vandy caters to poets and fiction writers and is willing to let them let them do a thesis in CNF if that's what they feel most compelled to do. If they were actively seeking CNF writers they would ask for a CNF sample. I mean, seriously, how can they think they can judge you as a CNF writer if you submit fifteen poems (and you're not a poet)???
I want to write in the other genres too, but I think CNF folks need to be careful about going to programs where they are going to have to make due with less actual CNF courses. Compare Vandy with Iowa, which has its own separate CNF frickin' department.
So,that's my opinion on Vandy. Maybe they'll expand in the future, but for now, it seems too limited.
I'm applying to Hunter too (fiction) and went to the open house, perhaps the same as you. I had a similar response.
My hunch on the app fees for CUNY schools is that it's simply a symptom of our dysfunctional New York State budget. My friend is a SUNY professor, so I hear about how they cut and cut and cut in lean times, and people around the school have time-tested adaptation practices. They know they have to start buying their own pencils and school supplies, that stupid little budget lines like that will suffer the most, since every administrative employee must "show results." I wouldn't be surprised if this mentality led directly to the $125 app fee.
Once you get past that, these schools are actually awesome deals this side of full-funding.
I'd like to nominate Vanderbilt. While the no-fee is great, navigating the page makes me think that I should be getting paid to try to decipher how and where to upload docs and info.
It's very clean and crystal clear on exactly what they want and how they want it (right down to stapled MS). Only thing is clicking on those little asterisks.
Also, the ApplyTexas application for the online/grad school portion of the application is very clear and pleasantly designed. It definitely beats the rather clunky ApplyYourself and Embark tools that almost everybody else uses.
As for worst, I'll see your Vanderbilt and raise you a Columbia. What a clickfest! How many times have I been to that site, and I still can't tell you where anything is. Want a checklist? Click here for a lengthy School of the Arts PDF that contains a TON of irrelevant info about applying to visual arts, filmmaking, etc., and scroll down a few pages to get to writing. Plus information is incomplete and contradictory, such that you must click through several different pages/PDFs to develop a composite of what they actually require and how they want it. And all for the great price of $110. F@#$#@ you too, Columbia! (please admit and fund me with some magic money pot you're getting in 2010, please!)
Jamie, that sounds pretty bad. The conflicting information is the worst, I think, because it leads to doubt and that nagging question: is this worth bothering the dept. for or am I suppose to just assume X or Y?
I'll put up a Best Website Nominee too: U. of Illinois. As far as MFA sites go, they're pretty slick. The back-end application was more or less intuitive with lots of MFA Applicants Do This type of sign posting.
Here's the list, 4 more apps to send out tomorrow: Ohio Wisconsin Illinois Alabama Syracuse Iowa Arkansas Arizona State Wyoming Vanderbilt Oregon Mississippi
Both Michener's and the grad school's organization and attention to detail are almost more seductive than their generous funding. And it's great that you can check the receipt of both grad school and departmental materials in a single location. Once the app is in, UNLV's status checking website is almost as well organized as UT's. And their interactive campus map is crazy good.
U Alabama's department website probably deserves some sort of ugly award. But their status checking My Bama login is fantastic.
Columbia's website is horrible, as far as finding the information you need as an SoA applicant. But I have to give CU mad love for having such an easy, online transcript ordering system and for getting those transcripts out to schools in 1-2 days.
Another plus for the UTA/Michener app was how SIMPLE and hassle-free it was. I don't remember it asking me to enter ever minutae of my life up to this point.
Bam, bam, bam. Done.
That is my vote for best website.
And I concur about Vandy. Aesthetically, that app is so terribly sad and confusing.
Did anyone use UMass Boston's online application? I just completed it, and I'm a little worried about it. It doesn't have you create a log-in like other online forms do, and it just kind of... ends when you're done. I did get a confirmation number for my payment, but I'm not totally sure the app was submitted. I sent it about ten minutes ago and although the form asked for my email I haven't gotten a 'thank you for applying' email back or anything. There is an online status check, but it says you will get an ID number from Admissions that you need in order to use it. I know I could email them and ask, but I'm not likely to get a timely response this time of year so I thought I'd check here first.
$9,300 is for the year. Yeah, that's cutting it close but the expected responsibilities of a writer at Vandy is pretty low compared to other programs, so a part-time job isn't out of the question.
Regarding full funding, for @ y'alls who are applying to Brown - I seem to recall some discussion from last year about Brown's funding being lower the first year because first year students do not teach. I believe first year funding was in the neighborhood of $10,000 while second year was in the $16,000 neighborhood. And some people had been unaware of this when they applied because the website said that all students were "fully funded" for the duration of their time at Brown. I didn't apply to Brown, so I haven't looked into this. But since I recall it being an issue at some point during an earlier application cycle, I thought I'd mention it here while the issue of full funding was being discussed. Someone who knows more about this, please correct me if I am wrong or elaborate if this is correct.
I applied to Brown and it doesn't say "fully funded" anywhere on their website. They make the financial situation somewhat clear by noting that first year students receive small stipends and second year students receive full stipends along with teaching assistantships. It doesn't give the amount of each stipend by it does suggest that they are not equal for both years.
Hey, those of you who (like me) applied to Iowa during the time they were closed for the holiday break: did your application fee work out okay? Mine showed up 'pending' on my bank account at the time, but has since vanished. The Iowa site still lists it as paid, but it's not in my bank transactions. I'm a little concerned because I know that pending amounts have to be confirmed before they are completed, and if Iowa was closed maybe they didn't confirm it before it dropped off or something?
“ Writers fight a myriad of internal battles that are difficult to translate to other people. For example, they often have low self-esteem coupled with an odd form of grandiosity (John Barth: “It’s a combination of an almost obscene self-confidence and an ongoing terror.”); they are intelligent but in unmeasurable ways; they are highly skilled yet have difficulty finding congenial work in the world; they are easy-going in their lifestyle yet have unusual and non-negotiable needs; they enjoy people but are fierce about alone time; they are likable but peculiar."
Another lurker here. It seems like not many people are writing genres when listing their schools. I'm still getting the rest of the Jan. 15th deadliners out (and procrastinating about the Feb. deadlines still), but I was perusing my online status whatever for Ohio State and for some reason it says they haven't recieved my transcript. Haven't gotten anyone to respond to an email yet, but I actually had to talk to the transcript coordinator at my university to get her to send the correct things for OSU, so I'm positive they were sent (I'm talking three weeks ago+). I'll probably call, but just wondering if anyone else's stuff has taken forever to be updated online. I find it strange because my GRE scores (which were sent later) are marked as being there. Will this greatly inhibit acceptance? For OSU you have to send one TS to the dept and to admissions, so I'm not sure if they are saying which ones have arrived. It was kind of them not to notify me until they finally sent me the email regarding the online status check (a week ago maybe).
my transcripts haven't arrived at a few places yet (michigan and i think indiana) and i ordered them on the 26th. i think a lot of schools shut down over the holidays, so a lot of business (i.e. responding to transcript orders) got pushed until this week. i'm a little worried about indiana bc i've heard they can be hardasses about this kind of thing, but realistically i doubt late transcripts will keep anyone out.
Schools are slow to update your status. When I applied two years ago, I panicked and called/e-mailed everyone, and everything was fine, except for the part where all of them rejected me. This year, I'm just assuming everything is fine. It's easier that way.
I'm with you: no obsessive phone calls from me. If they like my sample and I'm missing something like a transcript, they'll let me know. I'm not even going to look. I sent postcards for them to send back when they got my sample/SOP packets, so I know those are in. I've got enough to worry about trying to teach in the Ninth Circle of Budget Hell™.
oh my God. I just can't do this anymore! I have two personal statements and one academic statement of purpose written. And none of them quite match what the rest of my schools want. I can't write another one, I am SO burnt out! :)
brenda... you ain't alone. all that hard work for no guarantee of a happy ending, it's awful! i ended up saying something completely retarded in an academic statement i was doing two hours before the deadline...and i didn't care. i just wanted to get it sent and get some sleep! Hopefully a faculty somewhere will love your writing sample and that will be that, and they won't be scrutinizing the rest of your application for eloquent perfection (just looking for indications you can work it when your nerves ain't so damn frayed). i honestly believe clunky statements aren't make or break. All that chat here and on P&W about the writing sample being the thing - yep. I know it's hard to beat procrastination and knackeredness and burnout but you'll feel awesome when it's done, as i'm sure you know :) Good luck!
Which schools want something different? I'm a little curious. And what is it that they want? I wonder if maybe your statement of purpose actually DOES fit -- If your statement addresses your goals and your history, it should also be good for an "academic statement of purpose," etc.
I guess I am lucky -- my schools just want a regular 'personal statement' for the most part. If one of them asks for something more, I've just been able to add a paragraph or tweak it a bit.
by the way, before RugbyToy says i'm being inexplicably, creepily ingratiating or whatnot, i'm saying all that to myself too. Due to some scheduling fuck-ups by me and the fact all this was kind of rushed, i'm doing the GRE on Monday. The one school i'm doing it for, Cornell, is cool with receiving it late. I just...am...in maths hell. And the biggest procrastinator. And have to kick my own ass this weekend if i'm gonna pass it. And then if I pass it, i'm officially one of the 800 competing for a place at Cornell. Bring on the calculus!
Sorry to spam the blog! I know a few people here said they went to the Hunter open house. Maybe you have some insight on this. Is it true what the website says that you are only allowed to work within your genre? If so that may have finally made my NY decision for me, I will apply to Brooklyn instead since I really want to take at least one workshop outside of my main genre. Thanks!
Eli, thanks for the encouragement. :) Lauren, I'm dealing with Brooklyn and UMass Boston right now. UMass's is whacky and Brooklyn's... I don't know, just that the ones I've written don't really suit their program, largely because the ones I've written talk a lot about teaching opportunities which are not big at Brooklyn.
So I read another applicant's SOP and it was amazing, but now I'm worried. It's not the writer's talent that bothers me, it's the astounding differences between our personal statements. I went for a casual approach, choosing to make light of my trials and highlight my enthusiasm by trying to be relatable and personal. Maybe I was too casual? Maybe I should have gone for poetic prose? I know it doesn't have to be "either or" but I would like to know what everyone's approach was.
This is just over obsessive, right? It's not like I can call all the schools and say, "Please ignore my casual SOP, I've just dropped a more professional one in the mail, HAHA!"
Eli-I'm applying to Cornell too, and it's my number one choice. Should I take the Rugby Toy's approach and tackle you through a window? Cause I'll do it!
4mai, mine were super casual too. The only exception was, I think, Michigan - whichever one asked for two statements, a personal statement and an academic statement of purpose. I made the academic one formal. Other than that my statements were all casual. I made fun of myself for the crappy novel I wrote at age 12 and quoted Bob Dylan. I don't think it was over the top or weird, I did it in a natural way, but definitely casual.
Eli - just to make you feel better -- due to massive procrastination, I, too, am taking the GRE late -- but on the 16th of January, which is late for both Johns Hopkins AND UVA.
I've always been slightly mathtarded so I was very encouraged when a rep at one school told me that the GRE "doesn't matter" -- it's basically a checkbox for admission. She reiterated that the math score mattered even less for MFA applicants. (and since I think it's impossible to "fail" the GRE, I've took the liberty of not stressing out about it!) I'm sure schools vary on this point but I'm clearly putting my faith in there being some flexibility (my faith is peppered with fatalism anyway--noone will like my stuff so why worry about pointless GRE scores being late?)
Michelle- I'm in the same boat. I swear, something is listed missing for every school, mostly transcripts. And I even ordered my transcripts in OCTOBER! Plus, I got confirmation emails that they were sent. I'm betting/hoping schools are just slow to update.
4mai, yep, you should - i'm serious competition, but that window you'll be looking to crash through is in London, so i'm ready whenever you are! If you actually come all the way here to bust me up, i'll be so impressed with your mad ninja skills and iron will i'll give you MY place (er, if i get in).
also, i'm not serious competition. i write very silly stories.
Eeyore - i do feel better, thank you!!! my mathtardulousness and fatalism are peppered with faith, which is good enough for me.
Holy crap, UMass's really IS wonky. Yikes. I wouldn't like that at all. I mean, I HAVE an awesome reading life, but I don't want to explain it to some committee. Hm. Best of luck to you. I don't envy you that :(
My sop was pretty casual too. You can send me yours at aurorapixie [at] gmail [dot] com and I'll send you mine and I promise I will tell you yours is awesome -- because I bet it's much better than you think :)
i'm curious to know if anyone is applying to schools that aren't included in seth's rankings. what are your reasons for choosing those schools and does it matter much to you that they aren't ranked?
two of mine (Old Dominion & USouthFlorida) are in his "additional 88", does that count? USF was purely because I currently live in Tampa Bay and LOVE it here-- oh, and their professionalism beat UCF's.
I recall having the same problem with OSU last year. With my transcripts and GRE scores. All turned out okay and I am now a poetry student at OSU. If you are concerned, call the department. Kelli, the program coordinator, is very friendly and can probably help you.
Salt asked if anyone is applying to schools that aren't on Seth's list? I am applying to two, UCSD which is a new program (in its second year) and CCA, which an art school in San Francisco with a hefty price tag, 31K per year. I'm hoping to snag a full ride, tuition paid.
As a side note I generally like programs that provide structure but at the same time allow MFA students to take classes in other disciplines.
Curious what is everyones top school of choice? I suppose I would say Iowa for me, but realistically I'd like to stay local (So Cal) so I'll have to go with UCSD, or CCA, that is IF I get full rides. I love NYC though, so Hunter would be great!
Anyone also applying to any MFA programs outside of fiction, non fiction or poetry? I'm applying to one of these, UCLA for screenwriting.
465 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 465 of 465Anyone else writing their SoP/critique for Johns Hopkins right now? As I read my work with a more critical eye, it's like it's falling apart right in front of me. I have visions of readers not being able to finish, being glad to be done, tossing it aside. I'm wondering if I've just built it up too much over time, gotten myself into a personalized groupthink befitting a Bush-era agency. Maybe my friends/readers were too nice, wouldn't say what really sucked.
My work seems to have a certain power. But that's it. I don't know if it's enough. I don't know if I as writer fill in the missing gaps, see in the story what's not yet in the language. Brother. The anxiety of self-reading.
Not seeking sympathy (well, not too much). More like, if anyone else is going through this thought pattern, you're definitely not alone.
Elissa--I'm from Michigan and I can tell you this about the UP: It is fantastically beautiful if you like nature, but it is unbelievably cold and snowy.
beedeecee--Give George Mason some time to update your info online--it will probably take awhile. The office is dealing with stacks and stacks of application stuff.
Good luck to everyone, I remember waiting on decisions as truly awful.
Check out the MFA Chronicles blog a bunch of us first year MFA students put together, if you haven't already. Find us at mfachronicles.blogspot.com
hey Jamie, the JHU self-critique requirement sounds very difficult, but you have to stop short of totally flagellating yourself and instead remember you're doing your best under stressful circumstances - and that everyone's in the same boat. (As in, we're all scrutinising our own work and thinking neurotic, sad, paranoid things...ok - at least i am - and tons of others here have said so too). Surely as long as you show some sense of being able to be objective about your writing (which i'm sure you are) and where you'd like to take it, then you can't do much more. If you could - if you could fill in the gaps - you'd write the story that way! I often look at my stories and know how i'd like them to be, i just don't know how to go there -from A to B...from the real to the ideal - but that's why we're applying for MFA's, no?
Good luck - the best thing i did, which i'd recommend if you have time before the deadline, is to take a day's break from your work, don't touch it. then have another go at it when you're more chilled (as long as you're not stressed instead about making the deadline)!
Ps. @RugbyToy - Princess Bride reference? nice. i want YOU as my classmate!
Er, I've just been thinking about what I would write in a 2 page critique of my own stories and have realised my response to you probably wasn't too helpful, as it was entirely lacking in useful specifics!
Hopefully someone else can come up with something more pertinent soon, while i busy myself with wondering how i'd put together a critique of my own stuff. Hmm. Interesting.
@Farrah, Kerry and Lauren,
I am 46 ... Right up there with you. It does seem like there are many 20 somethings. But you ladies make me feel better knowing I am not the only one out there who is coming back.
My mom lived in the dorms at Columbia to finish her MPH when she was 50! I don't think I'll go that far, lol. Though they might have family housing at some places.
Thanks, Eli. My post was poorly written, and might give the impression that I'm having trouble with the SoP's task of self-criticism. My problem is that I am seeing my own writing wilt under my critical eye. Natural and character-building, I'm sure. But it brings up all the anxieties one has tried to bury in saying, "This work is ready to submit." Fun!
For my teaching statement would it be wrong to write "I'd prefer you give me a fellowship" and leave it at that? :D
Riah,
Oh no, I didn't mean to say that it's something anyone wants or plans to do. I just meant that if I had that option of a career to fall back on, even if it wasn't my ideal career, it would at least afford me some measure of security -- the lack of security being what makes this process so stressful. But then, I am pretty much a walking ball of anxiety, and I feel the need to constantly have plans A through Z determined and ready to implement at a moment's notice.
Regarding JHU's SOP: I would recommend that you focus on why you did something in your story/poem. It seems to me the adcom wants to know that *you* know what you're doing when it comes the content/form of your piece. Touch upon strengths and address weaknesses that you hope to improve on. Don't tear your work apart but treat it like you would a fellow classmate's in workshop.
Someone upthread mentioned wondering about the quality of writing he or she was up against in the application process. My guess is that you're all about the same. There may some people who are great writers. There's probably a few immature writers (ex. "My Soul is a void / Swirling in the abyss of life. / Darkness; O darkness is everywhere. / I am nowhere..." etc). But for the most part you are all writing at about the same level. There was an interview in the Atlantic (I think) a few years ago with the an adcom member for an MFA program. He said that out of all the applications the adcom shortlists about 40, and of those applicants, any would do well in the program. But there's five spots. A lot of the time rejection has nothing to do with the quality of your writing and everything to do with the applicant being a bad fit.
Some of you may accuse me of being hypocritical since I was particularly successful with my application season. But now, after only one semester, when I look back at the work I included in my writing sample, I feel it's really bad and even now I'm revising it. Adcoms aren't looking for the next Ashbery, they're looking for potential, for fit, for someone that they'll want to work with.
This may be a bit evocative, but all that stuff I wrote really only pertains to fully funded programs. It's different if an adcom is looking for a student who they want to *pay* to write for 2-3 years. Programs that make you pay for your degree...well, it may a bit different. What do you all think?
I will admit, my inner ROUS is nudged out of slumber when I see fictioners (fictionites? fictioneers?) applying for schools on my list that I thought used to be best-hidden-secrets. Like LSU. But at those moments, the beast doesn't head for the other applicant.
It heads for Seth and Tom Kealey! How dare they reveal these excellent schools to everyone! And these blogs too, for spreading the information.
But then I remember I, myself, would not know about those programs without Tom and Seth (and would have been ridiculously lost without the advice and aid of the Speakeasy and MFA blog in about every area of MFA applications) and all animosity (lacking in life to begin with, I assure you) melts away.
PS: Final List: Vandy, Iowa, UVA, George Mason, LSU, Syracuse, Alabama, UF, South Florida, Ole Miss, Old Dominion, UT-Austin, Houston, UArizona.
All applications finished except for UF, LSU, & Miss.
A few things:
1. Congrats to MommyJ! I keep seeing you pop up on this and it's great you have an option already.
2. I just wanted to say something about that lingering self-doubt that kicks in when you have already sent in all, or some, of your apps. I am new at this but I really think you should IGNORE that doubt. You have probably spent almost a year researching and dreaming about this possibility, and you've raised the stakes for yourself, and for this you should be proud and never ashamed. I must admit that I did go into applying to MFAs with the belief that probably 80 percent of applicants wrote about their cats or about Jane Austen's Mr. Darcy, but extended time talking to other applicants proves to me that probably the majority of you are really very talented and wonderful and everyone deserves a chance at this. Of course this makes me reconsider my chances at getting in, but at the same time, why doubt now? I had enough confidence and belief in myself to stick my neck out there, and now the only thing we can do is to let it go, since it is now utterly out of our hands. To those of you who are rereading your samples and subsequently banging your head on the wall, stop it! You deserve better than your own treatment. Go eat a cupcake and read a book, or see a movie (but not It's Complicated because that movie was HORRENDOUS) and just take it easy. Don't read your samples, don't look at your transcripts. Happy January, and I'm so excited for a month from now when we all start to find out what the rest of our year together will look like.
jamie mu-- I hear you on what it is like to look back at your writing sample after starting school. After only one semester in my program I look back at the stories I applied with and I cringe.
Wishes for My Fellow Applicants:
I hope you fall into a bottomless well
(of patient respect for your own writing sample, leading you to easy sleep each night).
I hope you are subsumed and drown
(in joy at the volume of fat envelopes in your mailbox).
I hope your head splits in two, right down the middle
(from having to choose between potential lovers, your top choice programs).
I hope your eyes fall out of your face
(on seeing the generous funding package you receive, that you live on more than ramen).
I hope your heart immediately stops
(listening to people who brush aside your aspirations like broken staples).
I hope you die
(at peace with yourself after a long and fulfilling career as an accomplished writer).
I hope you burn forever
(with passion for your art, no matter where you end up next year).
Best wishes,
X
@ Xataro
Very, very cool.
Nice, Xataro!
It's like the Serenity Prayer for the compulsive, anxiety-ridden MFA-applicant.
You should try and get Tom, Seth, et al. to print it on the inside front cover of the MFA Handbook, 3rd Ed.
Does anyone know anything about McNeese University? They ask for a pre-app of sorts through email, but don't say when you will hear to take the next step (if there is one.)
My other schools, all for poetry:
Wash U
SIU
Purdue
Georgia College and State U
Texas State- San Marcos
oh, here you all are! christ. i've been wondering about the silence of updates on the old mailbag, with great fear that everyone had finished their apps pre-holidays and were just kicking back and enjoying life.
i mailed apps #10 and #11 yesterday (eeee!) and am wrapping up the components for hunter college. the $125 app fee is a total bitch, i have no idea why the cuny schools do that. i actually took brooklyn college off my list because of the app fee, but then went to the open house for hunter college and fell in love with the program (students and faculty who both seem really generous).
has anyone had time to, well, write? as this insanity winds down (i came very close to throwing my ibook out the window around applications #6, 7, and 8), i realize that i'll now have lots of time to write. it seems daunting.
as for a back up plan, if nothing pans out i'll just keep doing what i'm doing: working a pre school gig and freelancing on the side. honestly, this has been such a stressful process i'm not sure if i'd even bother to apply again next year. gah!
Hey K,
I had Vanderbilt on my list for a while, but I had to remove it because I think that it's a great program that does not yet support CNF people in any real way. The fact that you have to submit a sample in a completely different genre pretty much indicates that. Would a poet apply to a school that requires her to submit twenty-five pages of CNF?
My sense is that Vandy caters to poets and fiction writers and is willing to let them let them do a thesis in CNF if that's what they feel most compelled to do. If they were actively seeking CNF writers they would ask for a CNF sample. I mean, seriously, how can they think they can judge you as a CNF writer if you submit fifteen poems (and you're not a poet)???
I want to write in the other genres too, but I think CNF folks need to be careful about going to programs where they are going to have to make due with less actual CNF courses. Compare Vandy with Iowa, which has its own separate CNF frickin' department.
So,that's my opinion on Vandy. Maybe they'll expand in the future, but for now, it seems too limited.
@universalchampion
I'm applying to Hunter too (fiction) and went to the open house, perhaps the same as you. I had a similar response.
My hunch on the app fees for CUNY schools is that it's simply a symptom of our dysfunctional New York State budget. My friend is a SUNY professor, so I hear about how they cut and cut and cut in lean times, and people around the school have time-tested adaptation practices. They know they have to start buying their own pencils and school supplies, that stupid little budget lines like that will suffer the most, since every administrative employee must "show results." I wouldn't be surprised if this mentality led directly to the $125 app fee.
Once you get past that, these schools are actually awesome deals this side of full-funding.
Nominations for worst MFA Website:
I'd like to nominate Vanderbilt. While the no-fee is great, navigating the page makes me think that I should be getting paid to try to decipher how and where to upload docs and info.
Nomination for best MFA website:
UT-Austin Michener
It's very clean and crystal clear on exactly what they want and how they want it (right down to stapled MS). Only thing is clicking on those little asterisks.
Also, the ApplyTexas application for the online/grad school portion of the application is very clear and pleasantly designed. It definitely beats the rather clunky ApplyYourself and Embark tools that almost everybody else uses.
As for worst, I'll see your Vanderbilt and raise you a Columbia. What a clickfest! How many times have I been to that site, and I still can't tell you where anything is. Want a checklist? Click here for a lengthy School of the Arts PDF that contains a TON of irrelevant info about applying to visual arts, filmmaking, etc., and scroll down a few pages to get to writing. Plus information is incomplete and contradictory, such that you must click through several different pages/PDFs to develop a composite of what they actually require and how they want it. And all for the great price of $110. F@#$#@ you too, Columbia! (please admit and fund me with some magic money pot you're getting in 2010, please!)
Jamie, that sounds pretty bad. The conflicting information is the worst, I think, because it leads to doubt and that nagging question: is this worth bothering the dept. for or am I suppose to just assume X or Y?
I'll put up a Best Website Nominee too: U. of Illinois. As far as MFA sites go, they're pretty slick. The back-end application was more or less intuitive with lots of MFA Applicants Do This type of sign posting.
Here's the list, 4 more apps to send out tomorrow:
Ohio
Wisconsin
Illinois
Alabama
Syracuse
Iowa
Arkansas
Arizona State
Wyoming
Vanderbilt
Oregon
Mississippi
All 12 are fully funded.
Both Michener's and the grad school's organization and attention to detail are almost more seductive than their generous funding. And it's great that you can check the receipt of both grad school and departmental materials in a single location. Once the app is in, UNLV's status checking website is almost as well organized as UT's. And their interactive campus map is crazy good.
U Alabama's department website probably deserves some sort of ugly award. But their status checking My Bama login is fantastic.
Columbia's website is horrible, as far as finding the information you need as an SoA applicant. But I have to give CU mad love for having such an easy, online transcript ordering system and for getting those transcripts out to schools in 1-2 days.
Another plus for the UTA/Michener app was how SIMPLE and hassle-free it was. I don't remember it asking me to enter ever minutae of my life up to this point.
Bam, bam, bam. Done.
That is my vote for best website.
And I concur about Vandy. Aesthetically, that app is so terribly sad and confusing.
Did anyone use UMass Boston's online application? I just completed it, and I'm a little worried about it. It doesn't have you create a log-in like other online forms do, and it just kind of... ends when you're done. I did get a confirmation number for my payment, but I'm not totally sure the app was submitted. I sent it about ten minutes ago and although the form asked for my email I haven't gotten a 'thank you for applying' email back or anything. There is an online status check, but it says you will get an ID number from Admissions that you need in order to use it. I know I could email them and ask, but I'm not likely to get a timely response this time of year so I thought I'd check here first.
Agreed -- Alabama's website is straight up fugly.
It is. At least it's pretty easy to use.
On a positive note, GRE reports got generated more quickly than I expected (only took the test on 12/23). Now if they just didn't charge $25 a pop....
Random question:
When Vandy says the following:
"
Full funding is offered to all students admitted.
For first year students, the University Fellowship includes:
A full tuition benefit
A $6,000 stipend
A $3,300 salary for assisting in the Writing Studio
And health insurance
"
Does that mean $6,000 per SEMESTER or per academic YEAR? I mean, I can live on the cheap, but $9,300 annually is cutting closer than I'd like.
Amy,
re: Vandy
$9,300 is for the year. Yeah, that's cutting it close but the expected responsibilities of a writer at Vandy is pretty low compared to other programs, so a part-time job isn't out of the question.
re: Vandy
Sounds fair.
Now, if only one could find a job...
Regarding full funding, for @ y'alls who are applying to Brown - I seem to recall some discussion from last year about Brown's funding being lower the first year because first year students do not teach. I believe first year funding was in the neighborhood of $10,000 while second year was in the $16,000 neighborhood. And some people had been unaware of this when they applied because the website said that all students were "fully funded" for the duration of their time at Brown. I didn't apply to Brown, so I haven't looked into this. But since I recall it being an issue at some point during an earlier application cycle, I thought I'd mention it here while the issue of full funding was being discussed. Someone who knows more about this, please correct me if I am wrong or elaborate if this is correct.
UMass Amherst's application (at least when I applied) was grotesque. It looked like a geocities page from the 90's. Just awkward.
I remember U Florida's website was part of why I applied, it's quite lovely IMHO. This was a fun topic, just felt like chiming in :-P
I applied to Brown and it doesn't say "fully funded" anywhere on their website. They make the financial situation somewhat clear by noting that first year students receive small stipends and second year students receive full stipends along with teaching assistantships. It doesn't give the amount of each stipend by it does suggest that they are not equal for both years.
Hey, those of you who (like me) applied to Iowa during the time they were closed for the holiday break: did your application fee work out okay? Mine showed up 'pending' on my bank account at the time, but has since vanished. The Iowa site still lists it as paid, but it's not in my bank transactions. I'm a little concerned because I know that pending amounts have to be confirmed before they are completed, and if Iowa was closed maybe they didn't confirm it before it dropped off or something?
“ Writers fight a myriad of internal battles that are difficult to translate to other people. For example, they often have low self-esteem coupled with an odd form of grandiosity (John Barth: “It’s a combination of an almost obscene self-confidence and an ongoing terror.”); they are intelligent but in unmeasurable ways; they are highly skilled yet have difficulty finding congenial work in the world; they are easy-going in their lifestyle yet have unusual and non-negotiable needs; they enjoy people but are fierce about alone time; they are likable but peculiar."
Some of guys worry way too much! It's going to be OK.
Another lurker here. It seems like not many people are writing genres when listing their schools. I'm still getting the rest of the Jan. 15th deadliners out (and procrastinating about the Feb. deadlines still), but I was perusing my online status whatever for Ohio State and for some reason it says they haven't recieved my transcript. Haven't gotten anyone to respond to an email yet, but I actually had to talk to the transcript coordinator at my university to get her to send the correct things for OSU, so I'm positive they were sent (I'm talking three weeks ago+). I'll probably call, but just wondering if anyone else's stuff has taken forever to be updated online. I find it strange because my GRE scores (which were sent later) are marked as being there. Will this greatly inhibit acceptance? For OSU you have to send one TS to the dept and to admissions, so I'm not sure if they are saying which ones have arrived. It was kind of them not to notify me until they finally sent me the email regarding the online status check (a week ago maybe).
End worried rant.
Oh, and my list (poetry):
Iowa
Virginia
Houston
Alabama
Florida
Vanderbilt
LSU
Mississippi
UNLV
Colo. State
Ohio State
my transcripts haven't arrived at a few places yet (michigan and i think indiana) and i ordered them on the 26th. i think a lot of schools shut down over the holidays, so a lot of business (i.e. responding to transcript orders) got pushed until this week. i'm a little worried about indiana bc i've heard they can be hardasses about this kind of thing, but realistically i doubt late transcripts will keep anyone out.
Schools are slow to update your status. When I applied two years ago, I panicked and called/e-mailed everyone, and everything was fine, except for the part where all of them rejected me. This year, I'm just assuming everything is fine. It's easier that way.
hey salt,
re: brown's funding
I know their site says that, but I think seth's blog had them listed as 'fully funded,' for what that's worth.
@k
I'm with you: no obsessive phone calls from me. If they like my sample and I'm missing something like a transcript, they'll let me know. I'm not even going to look. I sent postcards for them to send back when they got my sample/SOP packets, so I know those are in. I've got enough to worry about trying to teach in the Ninth Circle of Budget Hell™.
X
oh my God. I just can't do this anymore! I have two personal statements and one academic statement of purpose written. And none of them quite match what the rest of my schools want. I can't write another one, I am SO burnt out! :)
brenda... you ain't alone. all that hard work for no guarantee of a happy ending, it's awful! i ended up saying something completely retarded in an academic statement i was doing two hours before the deadline...and i didn't care. i just wanted to get it sent and get some sleep! Hopefully a faculty somewhere will love your writing sample and that will be that, and they won't be scrutinizing the rest of your application for eloquent perfection (just looking for indications you can work it when your nerves ain't so damn frayed). i honestly believe clunky statements aren't make or break. All that chat here and on P&W about the writing sample being the thing - yep. I know it's hard to beat procrastination and knackeredness and burnout but you'll feel awesome when it's done, as i'm sure you know :) Good luck!
Brenda,
Which schools want something different? I'm a little curious. And what is it that they want? I wonder if maybe your statement of purpose actually DOES fit -- If your statement addresses your goals and your history, it should also be good for an "academic statement of purpose," etc.
I guess I am lucky -- my schools just want a regular 'personal statement' for the most part. If one of them asks for something more, I've just been able to add a paragraph or tweak it a bit.
by the way, before RugbyToy says i'm being inexplicably, creepily ingratiating or whatnot, i'm saying all that to myself too. Due to some scheduling fuck-ups by me and the fact all this was kind of rushed, i'm doing the GRE on Monday. The one school i'm doing it for, Cornell, is cool with receiving it late. I just...am...in maths hell. And the biggest procrastinator. And have to kick my own ass this weekend if i'm gonna pass it. And then if I pass it, i'm officially one of the 800 competing for a place at Cornell. Bring on the calculus!
Sorry to spam the blog! I know a few people here said they went to the Hunter open house. Maybe you have some insight on this. Is it true what the website says that you are only allowed to work within your genre? If so that may have finally made my NY decision for me, I will apply to Brooklyn instead since I really want to take at least one workshop outside of my main genre. Thanks!
Eli, thanks for the encouragement. :) Lauren, I'm dealing with Brooklyn and UMass Boston right now. UMass's is whacky and Brooklyn's... I don't know, just that the ones I've written don't really suit their program, largely because the ones I've written talk a lot about teaching opportunities which are not big at Brooklyn.
To clarify "wonky," UMass wants 3-5 pages on my reading life and how it affected my writing.
So I read another applicant's SOP and it was amazing, but now I'm worried. It's not the writer's talent that bothers me, it's the astounding differences between our personal statements. I went for a casual approach, choosing to make light of my trials and highlight my enthusiasm by trying to be relatable and personal. Maybe I was too casual? Maybe I should have gone for poetic prose? I know it doesn't have to be "either or" but I would like to know what everyone's approach was.
This is just over obsessive, right? It's not like I can call all the schools and say, "Please ignore my casual SOP, I've just dropped a more professional one in the mail, HAHA!"
>______>
Eli-I'm applying to Cornell too, and it's my number one choice. Should I take the Rugby Toy's approach and tackle you through a window? Cause I'll do it!
4mai, mine were super casual too. The only exception was, I think, Michigan - whichever one asked for two statements, a personal statement and an academic statement of purpose. I made the academic one formal. Other than that my statements were all casual. I made fun of myself for the crappy novel I wrote at age 12 and quoted Bob Dylan. I don't think it was over the top or weird, I did it in a natural way, but definitely casual.
Eli - just to make you feel better -- due to massive procrastination, I, too, am taking the GRE late -- but on the 16th of January, which is late for both Johns Hopkins AND UVA.
I've always been slightly mathtarded so I was very encouraged when a rep at one school told me that the GRE "doesn't matter" -- it's basically a checkbox for admission. She reiterated that the math score mattered even less for MFA applicants. (and since I think it's impossible to "fail" the GRE, I've took the liberty of not stressing out about it!) I'm sure schools vary on this point but I'm clearly putting my faith in there being some flexibility (my faith is peppered with fatalism anyway--noone will like my stuff so why worry about pointless GRE scores being late?)
Michelle- I'm in the same boat. I swear, something is listed missing for every school, mostly transcripts. And I even ordered my transcripts in OCTOBER! Plus, I got confirmation emails that they were sent. I'm betting/hoping schools are just slow to update.
I can't stop checking, though.
4mai, yep, you should - i'm serious competition, but that window you'll be looking to crash through is in London, so i'm ready whenever you are! If you actually come all the way here to bust me up, i'll be so impressed with your mad ninja skills and iron will i'll give you MY place (er, if i get in).
also, i'm not serious competition. i write very silly stories.
Eeyore - i do feel better, thank you!!! my mathtardulousness and fatalism are peppered with faith, which is good enough for me.
Brenda,
Holy crap, UMass's really IS wonky. Yikes. I wouldn't like that at all. I mean, I HAVE an awesome reading life, but I don't want to explain it to some committee. Hm. Best of luck to you. I don't envy you that :(
4maivalentine,
My sop was pretty casual too. You can send me yours at aurorapixie [at] gmail [dot] com and I'll send you mine and I promise I will tell you yours is awesome -- because I bet it's much better than you think :)
i'm curious to know if anyone is applying to schools that aren't included in seth's rankings. what are your reasons for choosing those schools and does it matter much to you that they aren't ranked?
oh there's a new mailbag. i'll ask my question there.
@salt
two of mine (Old Dominion & USouthFlorida) are in his "additional 88", does that count? USF was purely because I currently live in Tampa Bay and LOVE it here-- oh, and their professionalism beat UCF's.
Ryan,
I recall having the same problem with OSU last year. With my transcripts and GRE scores. All turned out okay and I am now a poetry student at OSU. If you are concerned, call the department. Kelli, the program coordinator, is very friendly and can probably help you.
Salt asked if anyone is applying to schools that aren't on Seth's list? I am applying to two, UCSD which is a new program (in its second year) and CCA, which an art school in San Francisco with a hefty price tag, 31K per year. I'm hoping to snag a full ride, tuition paid.
As a side note I generally like programs that provide structure but at the same time allow MFA students to take classes in other disciplines.
Curious what is everyones top school of choice? I suppose I would say Iowa for me, but realistically I'd like to stay local (So Cal) so I'll have to go with UCSD, or CCA, that is IF I get full rides. I love NYC though, so Hunter would be great!
Anyone also applying to any MFA programs outside of fiction, non fiction or poetry? I'm applying to one of these, UCLA for screenwriting.
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